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#37725 - 06/06/03 02:31 PM Words and Phrases I hate when talking about abuse!
James_dup1 Offline


Registered: 04/13/02
Posts: 1332
Loc: Wyoming
Ok guys I want to list a few words/phrases that are used when talking about abuse that just bug the crap out of me and why.

Healing?
Healing..why do I have to heal Im not the one that is/was sick in the abuse. My perp's were, why do I have to heal?

Process?
Process..please it wasnt a process when I was 6 and my cousin's forced me to the ground and pulled my pants down and did what they did to me.

Journey?
Journey...this sounds like Im going to Disney Land or something. Not going through hell and back. Journey please this isnt a journey, it's me being draged down the road of something called life.

"I need to learn that the abuse doesnt define me"?
...how the f**k doesnt it define me? It happened to me when I was 6 (how does something that happens at that age NOT define who/what you are). Then again at 12 to 17. Same question? If what happened to me doesnt define who I am then what do I use to define it, it's all I've ever known?

"Dont let THEM win!"
...Win? hum...great another battle I have to be strong for. They won the second they pulled my pants down and raped me. They won that battle.

"By me being here, they have lost."
...please...how have they lost? Im the one here, I'm the one who cant make love to my wife because of the flashbacks, Im the one that is sopose to take a hand full of pills everyday just to get out of bed. I'm the one that has lost my childhood. How on earth is me being here me winning?

Well just a few thoughts. I mean dont get me wrong I understand why we say those things to eachother (or at least I think I do). They just really bug the crap out of me. You would think with us being over a 1000 strong just on this board we could come up with some better ways of describing what we are doing in our lives.

Thanks guys
James

_________________________
I have more issues than Rolling Stone!


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#37726 - 06/06/03 03:17 PM Re: Words and Phrases I hate when talking about abuse!
Mike Church Offline
Moderator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 01/23/03
Posts: 3439
Loc: Toronto, Canada
James:

No it is not a journey. It is a long and bumpy road but worth taking. A journey implies a finite end that you can see. We reach our destinations at different times. \:D


Dont let them Win. and by being here they have lost.
Yeh the won the original battle. But by surviving and becoming the person you really are you WIN THE WAR. AND IT IS A WAR. They corrupted you and that is why all the problems arise for us. When we all reach the end of our particular road to being the person we really are you have defeated their best efforts. Also as long as we are here WE ARE IN CONTROL. I mean You can blow the whistle on them any time you like. Maybe we should let them all know that if they are still alive. We do not know it but WE ARE IN CONTROL OF THEIR FXXKING LIVES.

Healing: I ddont think a perp is capable of that. What we are capable of doing is ACKNOWLEDGING THE PAST AND ACCEPTING IT AND CHANGING THE BELIEFS AND EMOTIONS AROUND IT. CHOOSING TO SPEND THE REST OF YOUR LIFE IN THE FUTURE FREE OF THE SHIT. LEAVE IT BEHIND. I think that is what them mean bny healing. Me amyway ;\)

Does not Define you. Think a bit James. What happened merely defines what happened nothing more. Certainly not you or me. It is the same as having cancer does not define who a person is merely the condition. \:D

Now here is one that really turns my crank. When someone says I understand how you feel!
How the hell can anyone know how I feel. I dont how they feel. Hell sometimes I dont even know how I feel.

Actually a great post and I think some good insight will be seen in the thread. Timely one too.

_________________________
Mikey

IT REALLY IS OK TO STUMBLE. NONE OF US ARE PERFECT.

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#37727 - 06/06/03 03:17 PM Re: Words and Phrases I hate when talking about abuse!
Sick Puppy Offline
Member

Registered: 03/30/03
Posts: 300
Loc: Nowhere Land
Quote:
Originally posted by James:
"I need to learn that the abuse doesnt define me"?
...how the f**k doesnt it define me? It happened to me when I was 6 (how does something that happens at that age NOT define who/what you are). Then again at 12 to 17. Same question? If what happened to me doesnt define who I am then what do I use to define it, it's all I've ever known?
I will probably get a lot of crap for this but I sort of agree with it. I don't mean that I literally define myself by my abuse, but rather, I don't understand how it is something seperate from my personality. My personality exists because of what was done to me. I was so very young when it happened and I was just forming a personality and if that hadn't happened I might be a totally different person! So how can I seperate it and its effects from myself?

_________________________
And one day we will die
And our ashes will fly
From the aeroplane over the sea
But for now we are young
Let us lay in the sun
And count every beautiful thing we can see


Neutral Milk Hotel - In the Aeroplane Over the Sea

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#37728 - 06/06/03 05:54 PM Re: Words and Phrases I hate when talking about abuse!
Wuamei Offline
Member

Registered: 08/19/02
Posts: 2700
Loc: The left turn I should have ta...
James:

How ironic! It seems I'm actually having trouble finding the words for this post!


(OK wise guys quit applauding now!)

Anyway I'll just say I relate to your feelings about this (now Mike I didn't say I know how he feels :p ), as a writer I like to try to use a lot of different words, I want to know what I mean when I use them, and I hope others do too.

If I say anything else I'll start getting into defining "is" and I don't wanna go there.

Took my time to speak. Now it's time to be silent.

\:D

Good thread James thanks!

Victor

_________________________
"I can't stand pain. It hurts me."
--Daffy Duck

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#37729 - 06/06/03 07:06 PM Re: Words and Phrases I hate when talking about abuse!
guy43 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/17/02
Posts: 450
Loc: Minnesota
Victor.... knock it off eh? too much with the smileys. (yes, I can tell a brother to knock it off when he's irritating me. just my opinion and it's not the end of the world for me, or for Victor I hope).

James,

I think I understand some of your anger about those words, I've felt the same way at times. Sometimes, no words whatsoever come close to describing what I'm going through and calling it a healing journey just doesn't do justice to the crap I'm slogging through.

For me, the choice of words is very important, especially when it comes to how/what I think about what's happened to me.

If I say to myself, "look at all the shit that's happened to me", it just makes me feel worse.

If I say "I can heal, or find some measure of recovery where I can at least enjoy life more than I do now", I'm not beating myself over the head with the 'I've been abused, all is lost' baseball bat.

What I say to myself counts, either I'm playing the old "I'm a f*(k up" tapes or I try to change the tapes. It's about being gentle with ourselves because we've been so hurt and traumatized by our pasts.

Just my take on this James. Good post. I hope this doesn't add to your frustration.

jer


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#37730 - 06/06/03 08:32 PM Re: Words and Phrases I hate when talking about abuse!
Lloydy Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 04/17/02
Posts: 7071
Loc: England Shropshire
James
I find that the words I use are very important to me as well, although I do plead guilty to rattling some of my posts and replies out in a hurry and words an phrases that I wouldn't if I was writing something like a journal.

I use 'healing' quite a lot, because I think I was damaged by my abuse, it felt kinda physical to me at times as well. I agree though, we weren't "sick" in the acts of the abuse, but I feel that the life I was left with after could be described as "sick"

"journey & process" - I do use terms like that to describe the .......process... of going from disclosure to wherever I am now. Sorry, guilty as charged there.

"I need to learn that the abuse doesn't define me"
I'm with you on this, there's so much more that defines us. Everything we've ever learnt or experienced defines us, and in the cold fact of hours and minutes our abuse is likely to be a very tiny bit of our lives. But it's the distorted influence that counts there.
However, I do think that before I started recovery and was at my lowest point my abuse did define me to an unacceptable level, so it's a factor in defining us I believe, but not the only one.

"dont let them win" they did win the battle back when I was a kid, I'm just winning this one !
But I don't see them as "losing" so much as I see them just stagnating as I move on and leave them to rot in whatever hell they're in or heading for.
Although I barely give them a thought now.

Good post James, I think that the choice of words we use is very important to us, and very personal, as I think this thread will show.
But when we write, either here or in a journal, we see the words in front of us and they take on a greater importance because we have to get our message across right first time. We haven't got the luxury of watching body language and responding immediately.

They say "The pen is mightier than the sword" - there's a lot of power in words when used carefully.

Dave

_________________________
Go confidently in the direction of your dreams! Live the life you've imagined. As you simplify your life, the laws of the universe will be simpler.
Henry David Thoreau

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#37731 - 06/06/03 08:38 PM Re: Words and Phrases I hate when talking about abuse!
andrew-almost52 Offline
Member

Registered: 10/31/02
Posts: 243
Loc: canada
Hi James, most of those catch phrases and terminologies come from the psychiatric and social worker communities. When I was working in the field, I could spot a fellow worker at ten paces after listening to him/her for less than 2 minutes ..... all the catch phrases and supercillious knowing grin.

But I agree with you in a big way. All those euphasmisms somehow seem to minimize and even take away from the earthy, unvarnished anger that we feel. Peace, Andrew


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#37732 - 06/06/03 08:46 PM Re: Words and Phrases I hate when talking about abuse!
MrDon Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 01/08/01
Posts: 957
Loc: Deltona, FL
I guess I don't quite agree that these words don't depict things correctly. Maybe I just hold different definitions and they may just mean other things to me. I guess we all have our way of seeing things and if I use these in a post and someone doesn't understand what I mean, please ask me. I don't mean to be insensitive to anyone on here and some of these phrases have been what has helped me get where I am at today.

Just my view of it.

Don

_________________________
In order to journey to new worlds, we must first be willing to lose site of the shore.

The Mind Body Thoughts Blog
http://mindbodythoughts.blogspot.com/

Check out my relaxing piano music from the heart!
http://www.donshetterly.com

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#37733 - 06/06/03 09:33 PM Re: Words and Phrases I hate when talking about abuse!
James_dup1 Offline


Registered: 04/13/02
Posts: 1332
Loc: Wyoming
Quote:
It is the same as having cancer does not define who a person is merely the condition.
If someone is told they have cancer it's a life changeing event. So I think it would re-define who a person is. Just like the abuse defimes who I am today. Now will it keep defining who I am? I sure hope not.

Thanks guys for your reply's to this post. Those of you that have said you use the words in reply's to post here saying sorry if the words aren't meaningful. Look at the post and reply's I've done. I use them as well, I guess what Im getting to is this....ISN'T THERE SOMETHING BETTER WE COULD COME UP WITH TO USE? I mean come on were the wolf pack for god's sake, surely there is something we could find that would define what we are doing/feeling something. Ofcourse I have no idea what they would be. Well thanks again for the reply's.
James

_________________________
I have more issues than Rolling Stone!


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#37734 - 06/06/03 10:07 PM Re: Words and Phrases I hate when talking about abuse!
MrDon Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 01/08/01
Posts: 957
Loc: Deltona, FL
This post kind of bothers me and maybe I should explain why so that I can either understand the other view points here or someone might understand me.

For me I feel as if the abuse shot a bunch of poison deep inside of me and it permeated every crook of my entire being including my mind, brain, muscles, etc. So when I use the word healing, I am correlating it to trying to surgically remove all this shit that is inside of me and replacing it with healthy tissue so to speak. In my mind, it means that I have to slowly discover that which is hidden in me and believe me a lot of it is hidden, than I have to get rid of this. However if I don't replace it with something healthy, it leaves a big hole in my life.

Through out my time where I have been healing (see above paragraph for explanation), it has been a journey or that is how I often describe what I am going through. Mine point of recovery started out when I was totally paralyzed and came pretty close to breathing my last breath. I have taken a journey (or traveled) from that point through all kinds of things to get to where I am at. For me it was about taking physical steps and steps in my recovery which is why the word journey is so important to me. I am thrilled that I can walk and move around like I can today and those steps signify the journey I have taken.

Process to me means that it has not happened all at once. It was step 1, than step 2, than step 3 and so forth. It is a process to me of finding all of the hidden poison in my body and finding ways to get rid of it.

The phrase "don't let them win" means so much to me. It was a phrase that kept me from killing myself or completely giving up at times. At the time, I couldn't see enough worth in myself to take a "physical step" or to try and keep going at the time. But the anger of knowing that if I managed to not let them have complete control over my life for the rest of my life, pushed me in ways that I was not able to move in during this time. My abusers had complete control over me for 25 years of my life and kept me in silence. By me fighting the hell out of each step I took, I started to regain myself as a person and started to break the ties I had with them. In this struggle I had in my life, I was winning and they were losing. It was that analogy that kept me fighting and did not let me give up. Sometims it is the only thing that kept me going.

As far as the abuse defining who I am, well it does in many ways. But as I have worked through so many of the issues I faced, I am now beginning to realize that there is so much more to me. The abuse will always be there and there will be no way to delete it from my past, but now that I am beginning to discover the person I am, it is completeing the definition of who I am.


Again, I'm hoping that maybe I can understand more where people are coming because these phrases and I definately use them have been behind much of my recovery. I don't know if health care professionals used them or not, but I know I used them because they fit me and they made sense to me. LIke I said, I was completely paraylzed and breathing my last breaths at the age of 25, so these things to me are very powerful. And I like to compare what the abuse does to that of being a hidden poison. It is hard to see the poison although I know it is there. I see the effects, I feel the effects of it. And so many of the things that I say are in relation to this.

Hope I didn't lose everyone on this and hopefully it will help understand how I define these things.

Don

_________________________
In order to journey to new worlds, we must first be willing to lose site of the shore.

The Mind Body Thoughts Blog
http://mindbodythoughts.blogspot.com/

Check out my relaxing piano music from the heart!
http://www.donshetterly.com

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#37735 - 06/06/03 10:54 PM Re: Words and Phrases I hate when talking about abuse!
sonlite Offline
Member

Registered: 12/11/01
Posts: 100
Loc: North Carolina
way to go James!

I am very angry and frustrated too. I don't take what your comments were literally, I am just in agreement w how you let out the sense of betrayal and bullsh*tted-ness (hows that for a word?) that goes w having pick up what is our lives and try to be happy. James my 'story' begins at age 7 and I very much understand in my own heart.

john


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#37736 - 06/06/03 11:05 PM Re: Words and Phrases I hate when talking about abuse!
Wuamei Offline
Member

Registered: 08/19/02
Posts: 2700
Loc: The left turn I should have ta...
James,

Perhaps in this thread you (and some of the rest of us) are trying to express our frustration at not having adequate words to describe what we've been thru & how we feel? Becuz really what happened to us & how it affects us often totally defies de>
_________________________
"I can't stand pain. It hurts me."
--Daffy Duck

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#37737 - 06/07/03 02:20 AM Re: Words and Phrases I hate when talking about abuse!
James_dup1 Offline


Registered: 04/13/02
Posts: 1332
Loc: Wyoming
Quote:
trying to express our frustration at not having adequate words to describe what we've been thru & how we feel?
I would say that is right. I have no idea how to word what I'm feeling. The words and phrases I have said here just seem so tame, what happened to me wasnt tame. It was hell. How come we use words like; healing, journey, etc... like what happened was no big deal. F**k that, what happened to me was/is a big deal. It just seems like we as survivor's sugar coat what happened to us as much as the media or churches do. How can we expect them to stop if we are doing to yoursleves. I mean if we say we're healing then what are our perps' doing? I dont know, I just wish I could find a better phrase to define what I am doing. I'll have to think about it some more, maybe I can come up with one. Thank again guys for the reply's.
James

_________________________
I have more issues than Rolling Stone!


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#37738 - 06/07/03 01:44 PM Re: Words and Phrases I hate when talking about abuse!
Thad Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/28/01
Posts: 1752
Loc: Oakland, CA
Words are important. They are symbols to which we attach meaning. We string them together to express ideas and describe our experiences, thoughts and feelings.

The words you question are therapeutic words – used by T’s and adopted by us to talk about something that runs far deeper than they can ever hope to explain. They are shortcuts with which we try to explain ways we have dealt with our trauma – we use them in common because there are great similarities between what we go through. But we don’t always mean the same thing when we use them.

The hardest part about them is that they are inadequate to express the depth of feelings. To someone who is still struggling to get out the anger, isolation, frustration, of our trauma – they seem to objectify those feelings and point us toward strategies of getting over them –

Therein is the frustrating part – when we still need to get the feelings out – to vent – to say the truth of how we feel – they seem like they are meant to pacify us – and sometimes they are (sometimes they get said because we find it hard to just listen and acknowledge another’s venting) – but for someone who has been able to get his feelings out and is ready to work on them – they are ways of talking about that which has helped us cope. (and I truly believe in the good will and caring instincts of the guys here who want to help)

If the words seem frustrating – I suggest you stay with saying the truth about your feelings (as hard as that may be) – until you are ready to give meaning to the words about healing – And, yes, we could use some better words – any suggestions?

btw, james, thanks for the great post...t

_________________________
"..this place isn't a discussion forum..it's a portal..." Lupin
"The truth will set you free, but first it will probably piss you off." dwf's AA sponsor.

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#37739 - 06/07/03 02:06 PM Re: Words and Phrases I hate when talking about abuse!
James_dup1 Offline


Registered: 04/13/02
Posts: 1332
Loc: Wyoming
Quote:
when we still need to get the feelings out – to vent – to say the truth of how we feel – they seem like they are meant to pacify us
You know, I think that's the reason I dont like them.

Quote:
and I truly believe in the good will and caring instincts of the guys here who want to help
As do I, I hope my words has in no way made any of my brother's here feel that where words have any less meaning to me or anyone else. In the post I have done and in the chat's, I have had them words use to me. And they do help, so if I have upset anyone with what I have said please please know this...that is not what I wanted to do..I love each and everyone of you, and I really enjoy reading where each of you are in your recovery.

Quote:
The hardest part about them is that they are inadequate to express the depth of feelings.
AMEN BROTHER!!!!!

Quote:
If the words seem frustrating – I suggest you stay with saying the truth about your feelings (as hard as that may be)
lol...I wish I could think of something that would put better meaning to the anger/hurt/lonlyness/and just general feeling of shit.

Thad...thank you for your reply. Very insiteful for me. You really did a good job saying what I had no idea how to. This is how Im feeling about these words. That they just seem to trivalize how I really feel inside when I put all the mask away and truly look at who/what I am.

Well once more guys Im so sorry if anything I have said in this post has hurt anyone. That is not what I wanted to do. I guess I should read the guidlines to the chat again. After all each of us are in a differnt place in our recovery. For me words like healing and such have no meaning. Well no I cant say it is meaningless to me, when one of you tell me how your healing it makes me feel good and yes it even gives me a bit of hope that one day "healing" will mean something to me as well. Thanks again for the reply guys you'll are really to good to me.. (((((hugs))))))
James

_________________________
I have more issues than Rolling Stone!


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#37740 - 06/07/03 05:15 PM Re: Words and Phrases I hate when talking about abuse!
outis Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/27/03
Posts: 2260
Loc: Maryland USA
James,

I think of some kind of organic phenomenon when I think of the words "healing" and "process" in terms of moving beyond SA. I had to dig for "phenomenon" \:\) above to avoid "process," but how about "growing" instead of "healing?" I need to grow beyond the SA and its effects. I know, it's not much better.

As for why am I the one "healing," the perp needs his own work. I'm not overly concerned with whether that's a form of "healing" or not. At least at this point.

"Process" just shows that this is open-ended, and "journey" to me carries the connotation that the value doesn't depend on reaching some destination, but on how I conduct myself from here on out. It's an interesting metaphor, too. I talk about "being in a bad place" or "wanting to be in a better place" and the notion of a journey fits right in with those ideas. And before I ever conciously thought about that word, I chose my handle and my sig, so I'm partial to using "journey." \:\)

The abuses and my reactions to them are certainly a part of who/what I am today, so I think they do define me to some degree, just as good events (meeting my wife, becoming a parent, finding you guys) define me to some degree, too.

I really don't often think in terms of them winning or not winning, etc. I don't believe anyone ever set out to try to destroy me or my life and would be disappointed to learn that I was making things better. They did take what they wanted without regard for me and my life, but I'd bet they don't ever worry about any kind of "winning." When I have to talk myself out of suicide, I think of the people that I would leave behind, and how I would not want to hurt them. I don't believe a perp is going to feel any kind of loss or sadness because I choose not to kill myself. Maybe a bit of relief relative to the risk of exposure if I ever did kill myself, but that's it.

Understand how I feel? I think the guys here can understand what I go through, because you've each had to endure things that were similiar. I'm glad my wife doesn't understand in that sense, and Heaven help anyone who tries to get her to understand. But we're all unique and Mike's right, no one else can know how I feel. They can understand that I feel a certain way about something (if I get around to feeling one of these days), but I think that's different.

Yeah, a really good discussion. Thanks for kicking it off.

Thanks,

Joe

_________________________
"Telemachos, your guest is no discredit to you. I wasted no time in stringing the bow, and I did not miss the mark. My strength is yet unbroken…"—The Odyssey, translated by W.H.D. Rouse

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#37741 - 06/07/03 09:22 PM Re: Words and Phrases I hate when talking about abuse!
Lloydy Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 04/17/02
Posts: 7071
Loc: England Shropshire
words are so important to us, and my choice of words is even more important when I write my personal journal.
I often go back and re-write them, I never alter them in any important way but I tinker with the wording sometimes. And I always save it as a different version, that way I get to see if I have subconciously altered something. And sometimes I do add to them.

My first writing was back in 1999, and here's two extracts where I was already concerned with my choices of words.

Quote:
I’ve written this over a couple of days, and gone over it altering it here and there but not much. Certainly not the story, that’s remained on the page as it came, vividly, from my memory. But I have had concerns over the language and the detail I have used.
Should I just say “sex took place” or is it right to describe the events as I remember them in some detail? And what language should I use? Should I say “anal sex” or is the more graphic “fucked me” appropriate? Does “I performed oral sex” sound like a clinical, medical paper? or “sucked him off” sound like cheap porn?
As I read what I’ve written I wonder if using the language of adult movies brings my story down to that level or does it make it more realistic for anyone that reads this? It was realistic for me, and it still is, so I guess I’m going for realism. The language doesn’t embarrass me, it’s the language I use anyway amongst friends and with my wife. Not freely and gratuitously but if I stub my toe on the end of the bed I say, “fuck it!”
I suppose my worry is that the reader will get the impression that I wrote it that way because I am still turned on by the memories and by being graphic in my de>
_________________________
Go confidently in the direction of your dreams! Live the life you've imagined. As you simplify your life, the laws of the universe will be simpler.
Henry David Thoreau

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#37742 - 06/08/03 12:29 AM Re: Words and Phrases I hate when talking about abuse!
Wuamei Offline
Member

Registered: 08/19/02
Posts: 2700
Loc: The left turn I should have ta...
Really love this thread James thanks!

Some personal synonyms:

Healing: recovering, becoming whole, growing.

Process: progress, my own time, my own pace.

Journey: struggle, Recovery Road, my way.

I need to learn that the abuse doesnt define me:

I need to learn how & how much abuse has defined me or defined my life or shaped & influenced who I am and what I do.

Abuse isn't the definition of me and what it did is a perversion & confusion of my true self. But I need to acknowledge the abuse and its impact in order to know, find, embrace & be the real me.

Dont let THEM win:

Yes I do think in terms of victory, winning, overcoming, triumphant living.

Lots of ways of looking at this one. Am I in a contest with my perps or not? Definitely I'm in a warfare to overcome what they did to me & what it did to me. Did they win anything by abusing me? Do they win when that abuse continues to hurt me?
Not by my standards of winning. About there standards, I don't give a damn.

By me being here, they have lost:

In a sense yes. Especially my mother. She was trying to make something of me I wasn't, trying to permanently shape my life to her liking. My being here, my recovery work, means she is losing her war to do this to me.

In another sense, she hasn't lost becuz I'm still the one suffering becuz of & struggling against what she did. She's such a narcissist its unlikely
its bothering her in the least.
:rolleyes:
Then again she's and my other perps are the ones who were so evil, insecure, foolish, shallow, weak
disgusting & hateful the best they could do to try
to be better or stronger, to justify their existences, was to abuse a little boy they had it all over on in power & authority--but not in character & integrity, things they know little to nothing about.

In my book that makes them losers. In my book that makes me a winner.

And since I'm the one writing my book! :p ...

Victor

_________________________
"I can't stand pain. It hurts me."
--Daffy Duck

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#37744 - 06/08/03 01:49 AM Re: Words and Phrases I hate when talking about abuse!
dwf Offline
Moderator/BoD Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/24/03
Posts: 1223
Loc: Austin, Texas USA
Hi James,

It's always good for me to see how other men express their anger and frustration.

It's something that I am still not very good at.

So thank you for expressing yours.

A couple of questions:

If you weren't busy being pissed off at the language that some of use to describe our situations, who would you then be pissed off at?

If you weren't frustrated with the language used to describe abuse and recovery, what would you then be frustrated about?

It's great for me to let my emotions go, so that I can see where they might take me to,
and also so that I can see what they're taking me away from.

I don't get to know any of this stuff if I don't have a way and place to try to honestly express myself.

Congratulations on broaching a sensitive subject--you did it in a most caring manner.

It's great for me to see that it is possible to feel anger, frustration but also keep the love and compassion alive in my heart too.

I'm pissed off about being abused. I'm frustrated by my lack of means of expression for my emotions.

And I hope that I'll continue learning how to express myself so that I can continue to grow.

Thanks to you and all the other guys for showing me how.

Regards to my brothers,

_________________________
"Poke salad Annie, 'gators got you granny
Everybody said it was a shame
'Cause her mama was aworkin' on the chain-gang"

-Tony Joe White

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#37745 - 06/08/03 03:14 AM Re: Words and Phrases I hate when talking about abuse!
Thad Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/28/01
Posts: 1752
Loc: Oakland, CA
I had another thought about symbols – a wise man said that symbols point to something more infinitly complex and are useful by the degree to which they were transparent – in other words if we just heard/saw the word or symbol without them revealing the more complex truth to which they pointed then they have failed as words.

I realized that the words of the 6 or 7 therapists that I was sent to between the age of 7 and 22, were hardly pointing to the truth that alluded me for the rest of my life. They became like a little dance around the truth to further confound me – to sooth and placate this petulant child. I hated their words – they were worse than meaningless – their mannerisms drove me nuts – faining interest and projecting superior knowledge –

I lived in a world of denial which constantly folded in on itself – sending me back to the my worse fear – that it was me who was screwed up – and all these feelings that something was wrong were just more proof of my defectiveness –

I hated the words of denial – such that now when I feel someone is avoiding the truth it is a trigger and I feel compelled to nearly yell at them, “that’s not true!” Not always appropriate –

Which brings me to smiley faces – ARRRRGGGG – they set me off – they are so opaque - they point only to themselves and deny the truth of feelings much more complex – they throw me back into the oppression of my family – the mind numbing therapy speak I was subjected to – they make me want to yell “tell the truth! Say the feelings as fully and truthfully as you can" –

[I mean no offense to anyone by this – guess I just needed to say my feelings – feels good to rant once and a while]

_________________________
"..this place isn't a discussion forum..it's a portal..." Lupin
"The truth will set you free, but first it will probably piss you off." dwf's AA sponsor.

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#37746 - 06/08/03 02:57 PM Re: Words and Phrases I hate when talking about abuse!
guy43 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/17/02
Posts: 450
Loc: Minnesota
Victor,
Peace bro. I was set off by your emoticons in your first reply in this thread. Don't sweat my issues with your choice of self expression, it's not a big deal to me. Thanks but you didn't need to say yer sorry. hehe, I'll survive.

James and All,

Beyond the word/symbol issue in this thread, I wonder if this subject isn't more about the following:

1) Feeling frustrated or a stronger adjective that one know's something is wrong inside, but don't have a clue what to do about it.

2) Can't find the answer(s) that make any difference on the bottom line of feeling something better then totally focked up.

3) Being unable to change one's feelings, thoughts and behavivors.

4) Feeling trapped, hopeless, dispairing of any possible better future.

5) Can't find effective outside help/support/therapies.

Maybe I'm off the track here, or maybe this belongs in a separate new post. It seems that beyond the expressions of our experiences/stories, that the scales here on the board and the chat room when I went there are not balanced. That those here that are in a continuing state of not getting better, for lack of a better term, far outweigh those who are making effective improvements in the overall condition of their lives.

Comments? This is my frustration mostly? Whatever, it begs the question of how to bite the beachball of the points above.

jer


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#37747 - 06/08/03 07:14 PM Re: Words and Phrases I hate when talking about abuse!
Lloydy Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 04/17/02
Posts: 7071
Loc: England Shropshire
Quote:
I realized that the words of the 6 or 7 therapists that I was sent to between the age of 7 and 22, were hardly pointing to the truth that alluded me for the rest of my life. They became like a little dance around the truth to further confound me – to sooth and placate this petulant child. I hated their words – they were worse than meaningless – their mannerisms drove me nuts – faining interest and projecting superior knowledge –
Thad, I agree completely with you there. It's a danger for any professional to fall into the habit of using the same words and phrases repeatedly to someone, it does wear thin and they lose all meaning. They sound like a quiz show catchphrase.

But if a good therapist leads you to finding these words and phrases for yourself then they mean something to you. Even if they have been used many times before, they seem fresh to you.

Dave

_________________________
Go confidently in the direction of your dreams! Live the life you've imagined. As you simplify your life, the laws of the universe will be simpler.
Henry David Thoreau

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#37748 - 06/08/03 10:09 PM Re: Words and Phrases I hate when talking about abuse!
Wuamei Offline
Member

Registered: 08/19/02
Posts: 2700
Loc: The left turn I should have ta...
Hey Jer NP bro. On the one hand life would get damned dull if we all expressed ourselves in the same ways all the time. On the other hand life would get damned dangerous if we all expressed ourselves without regard for other. Finding the balance is like performing a juggling act with knives while walking a tightrope over a pool of piranhas. Guess that's why we have two hands! Sometimes it seems I could use more but that would just complicate things probably.

Jer your list makes sense & makes some good points
This for me at least is about a lot more than frustration with finding the right words. Its about finding the right feelings, the right ways of doing things, the right way of living for me. Words are just expressions & parts of all that.

Sometimes I expect the right words, or the right formula or something, to take care of things. It can help but its deeper than that.

Again to me the important thing is what the words mean to me. And what my life means.

Victor

_________________________
"I can't stand pain. It hurts me."
--Daffy Duck

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#37749 - 06/14/03 05:48 AM Re: Words and Phrases I hate when talking about abuse!
michael Joseph Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 03/11/01
Posts: 2719
Loc: Virginia
Ya know we are men, boys, young men, human, beautiful creatures, caring, loving, feeling people. What was done was shit. But we are stil beautiful don't let anyone tell you different.

I did not do anything wrong, and that really sucks. Love! Love! Love! that is what I need.
all I need is Love, I think the Beatle's had something there.

Love Brother

Michael Joseph

_________________________
Standing together is so much better than hiding in the dark.
***I am a three time WoR Retreat Alumni***
The Round Table, Men's CSA Group, Monday 7:30pm CST, MaleSurvivor Chat

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#37750 - 06/14/03 07:59 AM Re: Words and Phrases I hate when talking about abuse!
ernie Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/26/02
Posts: 121
Loc: Portland, Maine
When I first started working on the SA issue, I mean REALLY WORKING ON IT, facing it head on, trying to figure out the Why me's etc. I began to think of it like a robbery. I was born into this world whole, free, full of hope, joy, happiness, dreams etc. Then one day, that world was tossed up sided down, robbed, everything I wanted in life smashed, tossed about, taken from me. What should have been the best times of my life, robbed. So instead of that pleasure, I was robbed, my privacy invaded, my inner self taken away. How does a person get that back, how does one finally identify the robber(s), how does one finally bring that f******theif to justice and restore what was there before the agony of the incident(s)? Who knows, I do know it is very, very hard, just as it is to come into your home and find someone has gone through everything you own and deprived you of your privacy, smashed material things you have worked so hard to get and taken away your one safe harbor....peace of mind, your shelter, your being. Material things can be restored by hard work, so can peace of mind however, it is so much harder to restore peace of mind when for 40 years you have lived in denial, lied, hidden the facts, and yes protected the robber(s) by not coming forward and exposing them. We were all robbed in one form or another, you can't get back years wasted because of the suffering, you can't take back the way you treated people in the past for fear "they would find out". You can however start to rebuild, rebuild, find your inner self again, work everyday on being the person you know is hiding in there. It takes work a hell of alot of it but for me, I am determined to try to get back as much of what was robbed from me as possible dispite all the uphill battles ahead, they will not get the best of me and rob me of another day that I have left on this earth.
Bob

_________________________
The roads of life are full of stones but, they can be moved take my hand we will help each other.

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#37751 - 06/14/03 11:05 AM Re: Words and Phrases I hate when talking about abuse!
Mike Church Offline
Moderator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 01/23/03
Posts: 3439
Loc: Toronto, Canada
Bob:

Quote:
We were all robbed in one form or another, you can't get back years wasted because of the suffering, you can't take back the way you treated people in the past for fear "they would find out". You can however start to rebuild, rebuild, find your inner self again, work everyday on being the person you know is hiding in there. It takes work a hell of alot of it but for me, I am determined to try to get back as much of what was robbed from me as possible dispite all the uphill battles ahead, they will not get the best of me and rob me of another day that I have left on this earth.
That says it all my brother. Nothing to add. Everyone should read it and I mean really read it.

_________________________
Mikey

IT REALLY IS OK TO STUMBLE. NONE OF US ARE PERFECT.

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#37752 - 06/14/03 11:48 AM Re: Words and Phrases I hate when talking about abuse!
Sans Logos Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/31/03
Posts: 5791
Loc: in my own world in pittsburgh,...
James, guys,

At the risk of seeming to be oblivious to all the phenomonal insight that has been shared thus far, I propose the following replacements:


To Heal : initiate a new course of events; to become whole, complete; progress toward synthesis

To Process: unpack, examine the parts of the whole

To Journey : uncover, meaningfully rediscover and resolve, evolve


"I need to learn that the abuse doesnt define me"?
I need to learn and remain mindful that from this point on, I can begin to learn how to not let what happended continue to define me.

"Dont let THEM win!"
This is just the silliest notion--these guys ARE the archetypal losers

"By me being here, they have lost."
I"ll defer to one of Victors smilies here: [Please insert Mr T "I pity the fool" smiley.]

In order to change the subtext of any symbol, such as what these words imply, all we need do is make the decision to expand their meaning for our purposes. WE GOT THE POWER to do so.

Sorry if my pontificating has offended in any way; that's not the intention.


Ron

_________________________
  1. the past
  2. ReClaiming Now
  3. advocacy


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#37753 - 06/14/03 12:09 PM Re: Words and Phrases I hate when talking about abuse!
James_dup1 Offline


Registered: 04/13/02
Posts: 1332
Loc: Wyoming
Ron,
Hey what a thought. I have been spending a lot of time thinking about what new words I could use for me. When all along if I just redefined them to fit what I need them to at this point in my life. WOW!!!!

Danny,

Quote:
If you weren't busy being pissed off at the language that some of use to describe our situations, who would you then be pissed off at?
ummmmmmmmmmm,ummmmmmmmm, lol, I have no idea but I'm sure I would find other way to waist my engery and not focus on the real problem.

Quote:
If you weren't frustrated with the language used to describe abuse and recovery, what would you then be frustrated about?
Can I use the same answer here?

Danny the questions you asked bring up some issues dont they? If I wasnt mad at this or frustrated with that then what would I find to be? To be honest Danny I would find something Im sure. I've always been able to find some type of "soap box" to get on. But thanks for asking them now I have something else to think about, something that just may help me in the long run. Thank you for caring enough to ask me.
James

_________________________
I have more issues than Rolling Stone!


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#37754 - 06/14/03 06:27 PM Re: Words and Phrases I hate when talking about abuse!
Lloydy Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 04/17/02
Posts: 7071
Loc: England Shropshire
James
I'm glad to see you responding to your very thought provoking post, and it's provoked you which is good.
Sometimes we need provoking, or poking with a sharp stick !

Quote:
Danny the questions you asked bring up some issues dont they? If I wasnt mad at this or frustrated with that then what would I find to be? To be honest Danny I would find something Im sure. I've always been able to find some type of "soap box" to get on.
Danny's provoked you here for sure, and me as well.
I used to be just the same, always pissed with something. Most times it wasn't even my beef, but I'd still fight and argue about it. It was 'what I did' - was it a cover for being pissed with myself ? I think so.

It seems to be one of those things I recognise now with hindsight, and something I have made no concious effort to get over, it just seems to have eased away as I recovered. Or am I just mellowing with age ? ;\)

Whatever it is, I don't miss being pissed off all the time one little bit.

(or was it a part of the 'process' as I progressed through my 'journey' of 'healing' ? - sorry, I couldn't resist that \:D )

Dave

_________________________
Go confidently in the direction of your dreams! Live the life you've imagined. As you simplify your life, the laws of the universe will be simpler.
Henry David Thoreau

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