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#375527 - 11/16/11 12:45 PM QUESTIONS? New to the site
foster201 Offline


Registered: 11/16/11
Posts: 4
OK so reading a few on here maybe I should have posted this here!??

Just found out about this board as of the recent news and "scandal". Looking over seems like a very open group and a place to pose questions, express and get feedback!

So I have never done this before of any kind like the subject says, but here goes because this isn't easy.

But my first experience was with an older cousin(s) I would have been kindergarten or younger I think. My cousin would have been right at preteen or early teen I think 14 or 15.

It was only oral but I liked it, A LOT! Thinking back even now it wasn't negative. I realized I liked this from an early age and so it went from there on into my teens. I shared it with other kids same age younger or older etc...

Is it wrong that I didn't and don't feel victimized? That I enjoyed it, if anything I had or have suffered from feeling positive about it, for liking it. I remember that when I was 7 or 8 my Dad and Mom had "the talk" with me about this subject they were very devout Christians and the religious viewpoint was VERY stern and there was no acceptance of anything!!!

I remember getting upset at the discussion and crying my parents kept trying to address the issue but I didn't tell them anything because I knew I would be in trouble, plus they were telling me not to do something I liked (this included masturbation which was also a BIG NO) They dropped it, I think they decided that I was too young to have the discussion so it ended, well was tabled till 10 or 11 when the process started again, basically you can re-read this paragraph from start as the experience was the same.

So I went on living 2 lives which I later realized was my whole life as anything I liked or wanted to do was always on the NO list. That however is part of being a teen also.

I don't think of myself as a pervert from feeling this way. But then there has to be others out there who feel the same way as I do??? Right? I can't be alone here.... Hearing all about this has really got me thinking even dreaming! If I didn't and don't feel victimized from the many experiences I had with a number of people and enjoyed it, in secret am I WRONG? Is there something wrong with me for not feeling that way or thinking there are others even now out there that are going through this now. It just really is more confusing I hear others talk about it and the reports and Specialists and all that and it is always negative, damage this and trauma that and I just reached a point where now I am more confused, is it me? Is it wrong? Or is it OK to be OK with the whole thing. I would really like to open this up. Please keep in mind this is my first time ever saying anything like this and I am baring my 'soul' to everyone let alone my feelings and complete nature here. Thank you in advance.


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#375528 - 11/16/11 12:47 PM Re: QUESTIONS?? New to site and first time doing this [Re: foster201]
Fissy Tsickens Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 09/23/08
Posts: 466
Loc: Bassett, Virginia
Hi, foster.

Welcome to MS. I'm sorry you feel the need to be here, but glad we are here for you.

MANY of us here have run into this confusion: "enjoying" some of the feelings we experienced during abuse, feeling confused about our (sexual) orientation, thinking of the abuse as "not really abuse.

I think what you need to wrap your head around is that the human mind and body can respond in a positive way physiologically even if the pleasure is arising from out of the abuse. It's just how are bodies are designed. It may be hard for you to actually feel as though you've been abused; however, given the age difference, whether the experience was pleasurable or not, I would consider what your cousin did with you to be abuse.

Finally, to answer your question, "...am I WRONG?" The answer is NO. Your body, your experiences, and only you can process this information. It is not wrong for you to enjoy pleasurable feelings; what was wrong was an older cousin exposing you to it at such a young age.

Peace,

John

_________________________
Wish that I could cry
Fall upon my knees
Find a way to lie
About a home Iíll never see

It may sound absurd...but donít be naive
Even heroes have the right to bleed
I may be disturbed...but wonít you concede
Even heroes have the right to dream
Itís not easy to be me

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#375529 - 11/16/11 12:55 PM Re: QUESTIONS?? New to site and first time doing this [Re: Fissy Tsickens]
foster201 Offline


Registered: 11/16/11
Posts: 4
John,

Thanks man for posting back. OK so some of that make sense, but if what you said about what my cousin did to me as abuse and wrong then that makes me the same for showing or sharing that with others through my years, but I don't feel like I abused anyone so where does that put me. I haven't seen any of those people in many years and wouldn't even know where to track them down to ask. It all seemed so natural at the time even though I knew I had to keep it from parents or getting caught. I feel like I know who and what I am now (well I think, does anyone? ha!) It's just seems like this topic is never addressed on the news or you never hear Drs. or Specialist talking about this side of it.


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#375533 - 11/16/11 01:21 PM Re: QUESTIONS?? New to site and first time doing this [Re: foster201]
whome Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/07/11
Posts: 1736
Loc: Johannesburg South Africa
Hi Foster.

Welcome to the site, I know that you will get several answers to your posts.

There is nothing wrong with you, fact is that our bodies often let us down, and respond favourably to a situation that they should not respond to.
Often our minds and society tell us that this is wrong, but our body tells us that it is nice.

So, What are you to do.

We need to look at what the definition of sexual abuse is.
"The unwanted or unsolicited sexual attention from a person more sexually mature than the victim."
If someone more sexually mature than yourself takes advantage of you, that is abuse. You may enjoy it and go back for more,but it is still abuse. Even if the Perp is a year older than yourself, but at a certain point in a boys life, a year is like ten in the sexual maturity stakes.

The problem with this sort of abuse is not the immediate impact on your life, but rather the long term impact.
You will notice that the majority of the men on this site are Older, 40's or so.
It is at this point in life, that many men cannot live with the past, and what has happened to them, and that is how they find themselves here.
So, in a nutshell, were you abused, YES are you bad or crazy because you enjoyed it, NO.

Read more and ask a lot of questions, and I am sure that you will find the answers you are looking for.

Heal well
Martin

_________________________
Matrix Men South Africa
Survivors Supporting Each other
Matrix Men Blog

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#375539 - 11/16/11 02:15 PM Re: QUESTIONS?? New to site and first time doing this [Re: foster201]
Magellan Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 12/31/10
Posts: 1437
Loc: California
WOW.

You and I are cut from the very same fabric. I spent much of my life thinking nothing of the sexual relationship I had with my older cousin when I was a kid. I enjoyed it, and I even initiated it with him. Then started playing with some of the other boys. I enjoyed it, and thought nothing of it, much less think of it as abuse.

So here I am approaching 40. A year ago, someone mentioned the words "emotional incest". And that opened the flood gates.

Like Martin said, abuse is defined by an 1 person using their power over another person to satisfy their own needs.

While I didn't think the abuse affected me in any way whatsoever, because I enjoyed it, and invited some of it, my life slowly turned out to be a wretched nightmare. I'm unable to be intimate with people. I don't trust others. I'm constantly scared that I won't survive into the future, that I'm unable to support myself. I also believe that I'm unlovable. I get depressed a lot, and feel a lot of anxiety around people and social situations.

After I read "Victims No Longer", my life changed. I suddenly realized that all the things I described in the paragraph above were the direct result of the sexual abuse I experienced as a child. Even if I enjoyed it, and invited some of it on me.

It is a serious violation of your boundary. As a child, you are supposed to be learning your own sense of self, sense of presence, learning to understand and moderate your own emotional well being.

Sexual abuse smears, distorts, and warps all of that development, and seriously impedes it for many of us, resulting in the dysfunctional lives I described above.

If you struggle with making friendships, romance, intimacy, trust, love, sense of self, self loathing, then you've probably been affected negatively by the sexual experiences you had as a child, EVEN THOUGH YOU ENJOYED IT.

This was astonishing to me as I realized the truth of this in my own life.

MS is a fantastic place. A safe place to read, to discuss, to ask questions. I encourage you to stick around for a little bit, and find out about who we are collectively. You might be surprised to find that there are quite a few of us who are remarkably similar to you.

Like I began this message, what you wrote about your experiences, you wrote about my exact same experiences.

Welcome!

D

Originally Posted By: foster201
I wanted to post this in more than one space as I want as much feedback as I can get. Thanks in advance.

Just found out about this board as of the recent news and "scandal". Looking over seems like a very open group and a place to pose questions, express and get feedback!

So I have never done this before of any kind like the subject says, but here goes because this isn't easy.

But my first experience was with an older cousin(s) I would have been kindergarten or younger I think. My cousin would have been right at preteen or early teen I think 14 or 15.

It was only oral but I liked it, A LOT! Thinking back even now it wasn't negative. I realized I liked this from an early age and so it went from there on into my teens. I shared it with other kids same age younger or older etc...

Is it wrong that I didn't and don't feel victimized? That I enjoyed it, if anything I had or have suffered from feeling positive about it, for liking it. I remember that when I was 7 or 8 my Dad and Mom had "the talk" with me about this subject they were very devout Christians and the religious viewpoint was VERY stern and there was no acceptance of anything!!!

I remember getting upset at the discussion and crying my parents kept trying to address the issue but I didn't tell them anything because I knew I would be in trouble, plus they were telling me not to do something I liked (this included masturbation which was also a BIG NO) They dropped it, I think they decided that I was too young to have the discussion so it ended, well was tabled till 10 or 11 when the process started again, basically you can re-read this paragraph from start as the experience was the same.

So I went on living 2 lives which I later realized was my whole life as anything I liked or wanted to do was always on the NO list. That however is part of being a teen also.

I don't think of myself as a pervert from feeling this way. But then there has to be others out there who feel the same way as I do??? Right? I can't be alone here.... Hearing all about this has really got me thinking even dreaming! If I didn't and don't feel victimized from the many experiences I had with a number of people and enjoyed it, in secret am I WRONG? Is there something wrong with me for not feeling that way or thinking there are others even now out there that are going through this now. It just really is more confusing I hear others talk about it and the reports and Specialists and all that and it is always negative, damage this and trauma that and I just reached a point where now I am more confused, is it me? Is it wrong? Or is it OK to be OK with the whole thing. I would really like to open this up. Please keep in mind this is my first time ever saying anything like this and I am baring my 'soul' to everyone let alone my feelings and complete nature here. Thank you in advance.


_________________________
If I'm acting despondent, Please ask me if I'm eating sugar. I keep forgetting sugar makes me crazy.

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#375544 - 11/16/11 03:41 PM Re: QUESTIONS?? New to site and first time doing this [Re: Magellan]
unhappycamper Offline


Registered: 10/21/11
Posts: 624
Loc: VA
I don't think there's a "right" or "wrong" way that we "should" or "should not" feel emotionally about CSA. I think the real spectrum is the degree and the different ways that it has caused us harm. Some guys are much better at dealing with CSA than others and don't feel that everything that happened was abusive or gravely harmful.

It's not "wrong" if some of us don't feel as harmed as others, in fact I think it's a good sign. Every time a news story breaks about a CSA perp, I wouldn't write off ALL the victims' lives as "ruined," though certainly most or all of them (us!) will suffer some lasting detriments. With some support and help, those can be eased or even healed. Peace!

John


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#376257 - 11/20/11 09:41 PM Re: QUESTIONS?? New to site and first time doing this [Re: foster201]
skylar777 Offline


Registered: 11/15/11
Posts: 30
Loc: ohio
oh my gosh fosters i just read your post and i thought i was reading whaat i was just about to write myself. I was raped at age 12 for three years and i have been having sex with men since that age and now i am 56. I am a christian and i know it is suppose to be wrong but i cant help myself. I am married for 28 years and i too am living a double life. I want to live my life for christ but i keep being over whelmed when i see guys that are hot. I try not to think about the fun i had but every time i get a erection i masturbate thinking about doing it with men.WHY WHY do i keep doing this. I did not want to go thru life this way. I love women as well but i really love looking at men. I have tried so very hard to stop this but i keep falling back. how do i fix this in me? have u had any luck so far fighting this demon inside u like it is in me? please someone tell me is this what happens because I was raped for three years. still trying to stop. i did stop for 11 years till someone approached me. I never approach anyone. but damn it someone got to me. HELP

_________________________
the scares run deep within our bodies,mind and soul. Only the help from God and others like us can get us thru to the understanding we will over come.

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#376293 - 11/21/11 09:06 AM Re: QUESTIONS?? New to site and first time doing this [Re: skylar777]
Mountainous Buck Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 12/15/09
Posts: 1626
Loc: Minnesota
Foster and skylar-

Please know one thIng: your experiences and struggles and " double life" are shared by many survivors-including me.

Early sexual experiences are powerful, impactful, and can be long lasting if kept secret and shame allowed to grow unhindered. This is especially true when those experiences are abuse-power differentials between young males and older perps are a key indicator of abuse-

There is a lot of hope and recovery here at MS-I am happy to share my story and what has helped me reclaim healthy sexuality free from shame and guilt and full of love and intimacy.

_________________________
We have to take responsibility for what we're not responsible for.

ďIt doesn't matter where you've come from,
It matters where you go" Frank Turner

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#376294 - 11/21/11 09:09 AM Re: QUESTIONS?? New to site and first time doing this [Re: skylar777]
ksequoia Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/16/11
Posts: 92
Loc: NYC
I led the "double life" only in my teens and early 20's. My Christian upbringing also flamed the fire of self-hatred. Yes, HATRED. I made a conscious decision to be with men only from then on, because it felt natural for me. I had less satisfaction from being with women than being with men. The majority of my sexual experiences were unsatisfactory, because I was a people pleaser and couldn't ask for what I wanted. I still don't know what I want. I'm probably bi-sexual, as I do get a kind of thrill from the idea of sex with women. Kinsey has a scale on bisexuality, I believe. I've been with the same male partner for 17 years. He's very supportive. Though we haven't had sex in about 7 or so years, he is affectionate and wants more. I, truthfully, don't want to even be touched by him.. anyone.. though I really do love him. Society is getting better in helping people, educating people, that gay folks have always been on this planet. It's natural. Religion distorts and confuses the crap out of people. My mother-in-law is a Southern Baptist. We were 13 years in before she let me in her home! I've made a nice life for her son - sans the sex. She should be kissing my feet. I don't know where I'm going with this, but aside from my inner-self-loathing, outwardly I've done alright as a gay or presumably gay man. Of course, there are those who haven't a clue about me.

I don't think my CSA issues influenced me being attracted to men. Yes I chose not to marry, to propagate the horrors, chose not to have children for the same reason. But being gay/bi was not a choice. I know many many bi guys that live double lives and they're all miserable. I know bi guys that married, had kids, and have normal lives (though I cannot see into their hearts - I'm almost certain there is a feeling of loss somewhere inside them).

Now that I'm dealing with my CSA issues, my hope is to heal from within so that the relationship I'm in can flourish.

Calling for that therapist today...


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