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#374232 - 11/04/11 04:54 AM Lovemaking/sex and the survivor - survivor ?
Anniemy4sons Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 09/29/11
Posts: 98
Loc: NJ
It has been 2 months and 2 days since my husbands disclosure. So many emotions, so many ups and downs. One thing that has been consistent is our love for each other and our lovemaking. But it's different now. He is always putting my needs FIRST. Because of the SA our therapist says this is a must. I must be the one to initiate and I must come first.

But I'm wondering, is that okay being that he is a csa survivor?

He says no but I'm concerned if this makes him feel powerless? (for 20+ years he has always said I control our sex life) stressing the word control here. I NEVER considered it ME controlling him, but he did/does!)
This was always a huge issue for us. I have never used it as leverage or punishment.

I know his thinking is distorted when it comes to this subject. He did admit that he feels grounded and "we're okay" if we are consistent. But now I feel a huge responsibility about being careful with him. He is very fragile and emotional these days. (he cries now, he NEVER cries)

On the other hand the SA has me worried . How do I tell if he is making love to me OR he is having sex with me (replacement acting out)? He also claims NO.

Am I over thinking this..? Just let it be what ever it is. My fear that he becomes sexually anorexic is a major factor. I feel like I'm constantly on watch/read duty.

Our love making has become VERY intense, long, very erotic. Very sexual if you know what I mean. Different... While we are touching more, hand holding snuggling etc. Outside the bedroom ( he has always been affectionate with me) I feel like he is trying SO hard! To connect almost. OR he has to hold on to me ( like I'm going to run away from him)

So my questions are:
1) am I over thinking this.
2) should I be concerned that he is "acting out" and how to tell the difference
3) how do I reassure him outside of the bedroom that I'm here for the long haul. A forever kind of thing. Don't worry, be happy. Your secret is out and You are safe with me.
4) is it normal for lovemaking to change after disclosure?

One more thing, he keeps asking me if I still find him masculine. ( the answer is YES!)

We're so screwed up but I love him and I love US. DEARLY!

_________________________
God is my teacher, Jesus my comfort and the Holy Spirit my protector.
I AM Listening...

Thank you Mother Mary.
Pray the Rosary every day. http://www.comepraytherosary.org/

I BELIEVE IN HER PROMISE.

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#374247 - 11/04/11 08:17 AM Re: Lovemaking/sex and the survivor - survivor ? [Re: Anniemy4sons]
Disappointed Offline


Registered: 08/11/09
Posts: 540
Loc: U.S.A.
OMG!

_________________________
Female.

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#374249 - 11/04/11 08:19 AM Re: Lovemaking/sex and the survivor - survivor ? [Re: Disappointed]
Disappointed Offline


Registered: 08/11/09
Posts: 540
Loc: U.S.A.
And YES, he's asking if you still see him as masculine! While being sexually abused, he was cast in the submissive, feminine role. Of course he has self doubts, especially now that you know and he can't hide behind his flawless masculine mask!

_________________________
Female.

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#374258 - 11/04/11 09:23 AM Re: Lovemaking/sex and the survivor - survivor ? [Re: Anniemy4sons]
lucylives Offline


Registered: 04/07/11
Posts: 357
Your post jumped out at me as we deal with alot of the same issues.

My therapist told me to let him initiate when we make love because he has felt powerless from the abuse. I will say that when I initiate, I see frustration with him. I think he feels pressured to perform. Whatever. What about my needs? Just for today, though, I am going to follow what my therapist says because it makes sense. The acting out my husband did was all about reenacting but he was the one who says when, he was the one who was in control, so to speak. Am I reading your therapist said the opposite??
I don't think you are over-thinking at all. This all feels really weird and we are in the dark all the time. That is what i hate the most. I just want to know what is happening with him. The problem with wanting to know what is happening with him can totally distract me from my own feelings. That is what I am working on right now. I can spend all day, every moment worrying about this stuff to the point where I am "numbing" and not paying much attention to what I want, need and am feeling.

I, too, worry about the sexual anorexia thing and Yes, my husband worries too that he isn't enough of a man. Please! Why would what happened to them as children affect how we view them as men. They were little boys!!! Silly thinking, in my point of view. We are not responsible for f^&*ed up people's actions towards us when we are kids. We can't let the crazy people control how we feel about ourselves as adults. I try to tell my husband that but to no avail. He still takes on their shame.

The replacement acting out or acting out with me is a concern too with me. It is very possible, in my opinion, that they act out with us. I guess you can tell by whether or not he seems really present or not or if he seems lost in his "thinking". How do you tell that? i don't know yet. I would say if he is keeping his eyes open and doesn't seem to be lost in his mind, then he probably isn't acting out but I don't really know. The truth is we don't really know anything unless the have the capacity to tell us and to really know themselves. I think alot of times, my husband is clueless as to what is going on with him and what he is feeling. I don't think he really knows himself and what makes him tick which is part of the issue. After years of stuffing feelings with acting out and numbing, could we expect anything different?

I think this is going to be a VERY long journey for him and me too. I am glad for this site and for my 12 step groups and for the books I have read. It is really easy to take this stuff personally (another thing I am working on) but just for today, I am going to work on having a good day and do what I need to do for today to have a good day for me!!!. This stuff is so overwhelming it can occupy my whole life.

It would be great if survivors could respond to all this. That is the closest I think we will get at this point to knowing what is going on in their heads. I think it is easier probably for them to open up to us here than it is for our husbands to open up to us and it may be easier for survivors to open up to us here than to their wives. I may be wrong but I think shame makes it hard to share all this stuff.


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#374266 - 11/04/11 11:59 AM Re: Lovemaking/sex and the survivor - survivor ? [Re: lucylives]
1227ms Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 12/01/10
Posts: 98
Loc: PA
Anniemy4sons,
Let me try and share my perspective as a survivor.
We all have our own stories and journeys so everyone needs to evaluate their own situation.

My csa was emotionally and developmentaly traumatizing but not physically traumatizing. I developed and maintained walls emotionally to protect myself. I am 50, married 30 years(very strained at this point), 2 grown children, 1 granddaughter. I never cheated, never went to strip clubs (alright, twice with the guys from work) but never as a way of "acting out". I did often wonder if I was "masculine enough". I have learned that was a result of CSA. I have never felt any homosexual tendencies. In my marriage I always wanted sex. My wife would say she didn't feel an emotional connection. I would respond that for me an " emotional connection" comes with sex. I have learned that while it is not atypical for a man to react that way it also is a result of CSA which at 10 taught me that sex = affection/love. On my healing journey I am learning and feeling that in reality, sex should be a healthy way for intimate partners to express love. I have been on my healing journey almost a year. While on the outside I am the same man, inside I have a new understanding of me. I now can express feelings. I no longer feel a complusion to have sex. I can choose. I can talk about sexual desires and feelings and have intimate conversations about how I feel. I have found it is hard to explain the difference to a person who didn't experience CSA. My old "normal" is not my new "normal". The abuse shaped my view of relationships, intimacy and sex into something a non CSA survivor never experienced. My healing journey is reshaping that and I love the new normal which is developing. On my healing journey I needed my supporters (spouse, children, parents, therapist, brothers here at MS) not to tell what I should feel but to tell me they loved me, I wasn't nuts or wacky, to let me heal at my pace but with their support. For me hearing I love you I am here for the long haul would have felt great. To have my spouse read a book or 2 about male CSA would have been great. I'm not sure about the "don't worry be happy" part. I get the great intentions behind it, but it seems a little like telling him how he should feel. I would think that ultimately sex could become a much more intimate connection and so would change in some ways. Hopefully for the better.

Hope this helps a little.

_________________________
“Everything becomes a little different as soon as it is spoken out loud.”
Hermann Hesse

Hope Springs alumnus 2011

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#374272 - 11/04/11 01:05 PM Re: Lovemaking/sex and the survivor - survivor ? [Re: Disappointed]
Anniemy4sons Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 09/29/11
Posts: 98
Loc: NJ
Dear disappointed,
If u read my previous posts you would not be so judgmental! I have dealt with my husband having unprotected sex with prostitutes, affairs, sleeping with my dead sister 15 years ago, stds and more. So I have every right to be cautious and wary of everything he does! I have stuck by him for 22 years and have supported him these last couple of months. I am not looking for perfection only respect. In my home, in my bed and on these boards.

Please try to remember Pain is Pain, we are not here to one up each other on who has suffered more. This is about supporting each other and sharing information & advice from those who have gone before us on this journey.



Edited by Anniemy4sons (11/04/11 03:17 PM)
_________________________
God is my teacher, Jesus my comfort and the Holy Spirit my protector.
I AM Listening...

Thank you Mother Mary.
Pray the Rosary every day. http://www.comepraytherosary.org/

I BELIEVE IN HER PROMISE.

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#374275 - 11/04/11 01:11 PM Re: Lovemaking/sex and the survivor - survivor ? [Re: Anniemy4sons]
Anniemy4sons Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 09/29/11
Posts: 98
Loc: NJ
Thank you for the productive responses. I am concerned if our therapist is more concerned with the csa or the sex addiction. Which should be treated first etc.

I don't want him to ever feel rejected so I need to try and read his needs when I can without jeopardizing my own. It's a careful balance.

_________________________
God is my teacher, Jesus my comfort and the Holy Spirit my protector.
I AM Listening...

Thank you Mother Mary.
Pray the Rosary every day. http://www.comepraytherosary.org/

I BELIEVE IN HER PROMISE.

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#374282 - 11/04/11 03:04 PM Re: Lovemaking/sex and the survivor - survivor ? [Re: Anniemy4sons]
hopeandtry Offline


Registered: 07/28/10
Posts: 476
@Disappointed, it is still a concern for us if someone is acting out with us. I did not want my ex to feel he had to have sex with me if it meant he was acting out...that was for his benefit and mine. Let's not "compare" pain and say one type of acting out is more harmful than another. It would be hard for me to hear my husband say "Yeah I have sex with you but it's just because I'm acting out, not because I enjoy it or because I love you." Annie has every right to be concerned about it, and I think the type of response to her post was uncalled for.



Edited by hopeandtry (11/04/11 03:36 PM)

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#374284 - 11/04/11 03:18 PM Re: Lovemaking/sex and the survivor - survivor ? [Re: Anniemy4sons]
whome Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/07/11
Posts: 1734
Loc: Johannesburg South Africa
"am I over thinking this." Yes

"should I be concerned that he is "acting out" and how to tell the difference" No

"how do I reassure him outside of the bedroom that I'm here for the long haul. A forever kind of thing. Don't worry, be happy. Your secret is out and You are safe with me." Just tell him so, A lot.

"is it normal for lovemaking to change after disclosure?" For me yes

"One more thing, he keeps asking me if I still find him masculine." He is afraid that you might think he is effeminate, now that he has told you of the abuse, You just got to over play the masculine thing, compliment him if he picks up something heavy and tell him he is such a man etc. He is afraid that you don't find him attractive.

Hope the short answers help.
Martin

_________________________
Matrix Men South Africa
Survivors Supporting Each other
Matrix Men Blog

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#374286 - 11/04/11 03:42 PM Re: Lovemaking/sex and the survivor - survivor ? [Re: whome]
hopeandtry Offline


Registered: 07/28/10
Posts: 476
I'll throw in my (other) two cents here, Annie.

If my ex was having sex with me and I knew he was only doing it because he was acting out (with me), then I would feel used. I would feel like my body is not here for him to love and cherish, but to use as a piece of meat so he can act out. While I wouldn't take the acting out personally in the sense of there being something wrong with me, I would feel that I was being used AND I would feel that it was harmful for him to associate me with his abuse (not sure if this last part is actually hurting him, but it would make me feel bad to know I was associated with his abuse rather than with love). I'd rather him just not have sex with me. My body is not here for someone to act out on. It's here for love. I would want him to be honest with me. If he can't have sex because it's acting out, then I would be understanding of that, but I have a right to know if he is "present" during sex or not, acting out, whatever. It's my sex life, too.



Edited by hopeandtry (11/04/11 03:43 PM)

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#374287 - 11/04/11 03:48 PM Re: Lovemaking/sex and the survivor - survivor ? [Re: hopeandtry]
hopeandtry Offline


Registered: 07/28/10
Posts: 476
*I should add that I am cool with him trying to work through these things. If he was in the process of healing and still struggling with acting out with me, that is different because he is working to heal. I can handle sex with someone who is working through the process of recovery if he wants to have a healthy sex life with me. If he is not, however, it's just a cycle that is going to continue to be hurtful. All this being said, this only applies if he ONLY is acting out with me. If there are mixed feelings...if he acts out yet feels a connection with me or is showing affection or whatever, then that is different. But if he has no affection for me and is not expressing it through sex but only acting out, that is more than I can handle unless maybe he's getting help for the problem.



Edited by hopeandtry (11/04/11 04:20 PM)

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#374296 - 11/04/11 08:20 PM Re: Lovemaking/sex and the survivor - survivor ? [Re: Anniemy4sons]
Disappointed Offline


Registered: 08/11/09
Posts: 540
Loc: U.S.A.
Originally Posted By: Anniemy4sons
Dear disappointed,
If u read my previous posts you would not be so judgmental! I have dealt with my husband having unprotected sex with prostitutes, affairs, sleeping with my dead sister 15 years ago, stds and more.


Hi,
As I said, it pushed my buttons. Sorry I mistook you for one who hadn't had many challenges. But I did qualify it accordingly - mentioning many of the things you'd suffered through. I did read your previous posts, but I read many, can't keep everybody's situatin in my brain.

Anyway, as to H&T:

Sometimes, (Often?) even men not raped just want to have sex with their wives, and the female is being "used." Honestly, I don't think it's fair to be the "thought police" about sex. He might be thinking about how good the ham sandwich was at lunch, for all I know! I certainly wouldn't want to be forced into a certain line of thought, and I certainly wouldn't necessarily want to SHARE my line of thought. Sometimes a little white lie is very appropriate.

I'd be careful about those romantic notions. It's kind of like that scene in "Groundhog Day," where Bill Murray's character and Andie McDowells' character are in the restaurant eating. He asks her what kind of man she's looking for, and she says she's looking for a man who's sensitive, loving, caring, and will change poopy diapers. And Murray's characters says, "And this is a man?" or words to that effect.


_________________________
Female.

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#374298 - 11/04/11 08:40 PM Re: Lovemaking/sex and the survivor - survivor ? [Re: Disappointed]
hopeandtry Offline


Registered: 07/28/10
Posts: 476
The difference there is that the man is having sex overall with his wife because he loves her. He is attracted to her, even if he isn't thinking "Oh I love you so much." What I'm talking about is a consistent pattern of acting out...ALWAYS having sex with the woman with thoughts of acting out and not love. THAT is what I have a problem with. I by no means think a man always need to be actively thinking about how much he loves his wife or even saying "I love you" during sex. I do, however, have a problem if a man is never having sex with me with feelings of love or affection, but only thoughts of his abuse. (And I do mean ONLY thoughts of his abuse.) Trust me, I do not have sex myself always gushing romantic sayings. This isn't about romance, this is about the core of what sex should be in a relationship.


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#374302 - 11/04/11 10:09 PM Re: Lovemaking/sex and the survivor - survivor ? [Re: hopeandtry]
Rowan Offline


Registered: 08/30/11
Posts: 8
Annie,

I am struggling with this issue myself. It seems very intense for my survivor and I (the sex) as of late. And I also don't know if he is trying really hard and doing as he does... anything he thinks will please me or if he is connecting with me. He is afraid of commitment and is always stressing to me that he loves me but we haven't any commitment.

And if you don't mind Annie, I'd like to ask D something....

D,
You don't have to answer if you don't want to (of course) but I was wondering... I read some of your posts. How do you feel about your friend's games? Why do you partake in them? I am absolutely not judging one way or the other. I was only wanting a view from the acting-out partners perspective. At least you know up front. That's one less question unanswered for you. But really, as a woman, what do you get out of it? I really do want to understand.

Rowan


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#374342 - 11/05/11 07:51 AM Re: Lovemaking/sex and the survivor - survivor ? [Re: Rowan]
Gretta Offline


Registered: 09/17/11
Posts: 239
Annie thanks for bringing up this subject. This has been a touchy one for us too. I understand needing and wanting the closeness after " nuclear ennilation" of what we thought our life was, but it's tricky. Our bed is a crowded place these days. There is a long line of people that he cheated on me with and I have now come to find that often times depending on the position his father and other perbs are creeping into his head which is making ejaculation difficult! That was never a problem in the past. We've avoided those positions all together but it's seems forced and alot of work now when before it was effortless.

I'd rather just hold back on having sex right now but he can't get out of the old mode, " I need it, I want it" always grabbing and making little gestures. When I turn him down he feels rejected etc... If we do have sex it's good for a while but ultimately it becomes clear that something is wrong. I tell him I love him and well damn it I am still here. Just when I feel like we are getting somewhere I feel like we are back to start.

Boy this CSA stuff is not fun...just when you think your feet are on the ground steady, BAM they go out from under you. And I consider myself one of the lucky ones I know how hard my husband is trying. It still sucks.

If by acting out he is fantasizing about healthy fantasies I'm all good with that. I think that's just a part of being married for many years, heck I like to have a fantasy or two.


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#374345 - 11/05/11 09:19 AM Re: Lovemaking/sex and the survivor - survivor ? [Re: Rowan]
Disappointed Offline


Registered: 08/11/09
Posts: 540
Loc: U.S.A.
Originally Posted By: Rowan

And if you don't mind Annie, I'd like to ask D something....

D,
You don't have to answer if you don't want to (of course) but I was wondering... I read some of your posts. How do you feel about your friend's games? Why do you partake in them? I am absolutely not judging one way or the other. I was only wanting a view from the acting-out partners perspective. At least you know up front. That's one less question unanswered for you. But really, as a woman, what do you get out of it? I really do want to understand.

Rowan


Hi Rowan,
frustrated. The game is fine, I'm just not good at it.

As for why I do it... I didn't know anything about any of this when he first contacted me. He was this really good looking, successful man, and at first when we talked, he was uninteresting on the telephone but decided to wait to see what developed.as we continued to email and talk, he got more comfortable and more interesting. I had no idea about how to play the game, so he would drop hints. Never tell me, because that would spoil the dynamics of the game, but drop hints,

So, one time, only 2 months into this, we were texting, and he told me he hated "Rick." Rick's the personality he shows to the world, his front. David, the inner personality, HATED Rick. That made my brain just stop, and say, "What?." This guy has a very bad situation. Half of him hates the other half. And they talk about each other like they're totally different people. sad

Each has different ways of talking and likes different kinds of girls, and each wants to maintain the body differently. One wants long hair, the other short. One wants to shave his chest hair, the other not. However, they both like sports.

He told me some true facts, but he lied about some. So I started xhecking, and found some stuf online, bunch of his ex-s. So he caught em but culdn't keep em.

So, anyway, his treatment of me would be one week intensely into the game, then for 2 or 3 weeks, very snide to me. Over and over and i tried to learn the game better by talking to other men who liked similar things, thinking maybe it would change his pattern. It didn't.

That's when after 7 months I came to this website, and found all these other men with similar attitudes to his. Hating part of themselves, having urges that were so hard to resist... multiple personalities....

that's why I do it. I don't think of him as "acting out." Let's say you like to shop or wear makeup. What if someone told you that was "acting out"? But women loving shopping and makeup is practically part of our DNA. This is who he is. It's not an act. I'm not saying it can't change, but it's not going to in the short run for sure. He's been seeing a therapist for several years. Just changed therapists, but.... glacier movement is what describes it.

I've read thousands of posts here by the men. A common theme is in their 40s they start dealing with this, and then the suffering just gets so bad. The flashbacks, the body memories, the fear, the same sex attraction... and on and on and on. Many of the men quit working for a while. They're on a horrible rollercoaster. I'm not sure I could bear to see him go through all of that. He's worked so hard to create a pretty functional life for himself despite the CSA, I can understand why he wants to avoid the crash and burn of it all.

What do I get? well, i picked "disappointed" for a reason. But he's a good man, and I'll tell you something: I know his inner thoughts probably better than anyone. He trusts me. And slowly he shares more and more of his thoughts. When I get ONE new thought from him (he recently complained about my harsh emails to him and one other thing I did 2.5 years ago. And I've been sending him harsh emails for, oh, 2 years!), it makes me feel good.he kept this secret for 35 years, but told me! How cool.

Also, if I didn't play, if he hadn't learned to trust me, who would David have to speak with? Rick is the guy all his friends know. He hides David as best he can. So David is bottled up all the time, and even when he's "out," he puts up a good Rick mask, trying to avoid anyone knowing. Pretty sure David is the one that suffered the abuse. David needs someone to talk to, and Rick has pretty much limited that to people who play the game. I truly believe that giving David someone to talk to, is healthier than telling him he's an unacceptable, shameful person who isn't worthy of human contact.He's really just a sweet child.

I believe acceptance gives him the ability to be honest and to begin peeking out from his isolation and begin to trust. No matter what erratic thing he does, no matter how frustrated I get, he knows after I'll be there.He can't always count on me doing what he wants, but if it's something important, he can.

In the last year, he's told me a couple of things about himself, about David, that David is ashamed of, but I didn't blink. They weren't actually bad at all - my other friends do the same things! And I believe it's my acceptance that has enabled him to bare his true feelings about himself.

D.

to give him credit, we've been in a rbad recessn for 3 years.sometimes I've called him and he's given me money.


_________________________
Female.

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#374352 - 11/05/11 10:23 AM Re: Lovemaking/sex and the survivor - survivor ? [Re: Disappointed]
JustScott Offline
Greeter Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 01/27/08
Posts: 2572
I think for now the thing that jumps out at me that I'll comment on is the "initiating" part of things.

I think it really does depend on the individual.

For me, I usually wait for my wife to initiate, because when I initiate I have all manner of additional feelings of shame and fear that come up. Somewhere along the line for me, initiating and abuse got mixed up. Abusers initiate, so I think that's where my messed up feelings come from.

But that's not how it is with everyone. So for one situation, the wife initiating might be a boon for the husband, while for another it makes him feel powerless.


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#374353 - 11/05/11 10:49 AM Re: Lovemaking/sex and the survivor - survivor ? [Re: JustScott]
GoodHope Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 07/05/11
Posts: 413
I've not behaved differently with the sex. It's the one thing that has consistently worked well for both of us and I don't want to fiddle with it.

In general, he physically initiates. It's been that way for 12 years. We have little jokes to indicate an interest in sex that pre-date the fallout of everything and we still use those. They got us through (as best you can) the awkwardness of trying to re-establish a relationship after a history of deception and betrayal has been unearthed.

I do think about the things that Annie mentioned, but I don't think about them a lot and I change none of my sexual behavior based on those thoughts.

I have let him know that if there is anythign that I am doing sexually that is problematic for him, to let me know.

I do see some truth in trying to desperately connect emotionally with me through sex. Weeks after I found out about the affair we did have a particularly emotional feeling encounter and I told him it felt like he was "making love to me" and he said that is what he was doing.

It was nice, and I may be weird but sex is not necessarily where I need to feel the emotional connection. I'm like Rowan in the sense that I'm not thinking during the act "I love him so much". Afterwards I do need to feel emotionally connected, and he's always done that, holding me, talking to me etc. (at least for the 5 minutes he can stay awake, LOL!).

If the sex is enjoyable for you, I say go with it. So much of this situation is crappy so I snatch and hoard the little crumbs of goodness that fall down around me. It is torturous to try to get out of my own head, but I work on it daily because it is misery to live in there. And for all our fretting and wondering and worrying, the truth is we can never know that another person is really thinking. I just try to be the kind of person that he feels like he can tell the truth to.

_________________________
Wife of a survivor

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#374372 - 11/05/11 03:51 PM Re: Lovemaking/sex and the survivor - survivor ? [Re: GoodHope]
hopeandtry Offline


Registered: 07/28/10
Posts: 476
@Eldee, I wish I could have just gone with it, but though I enjoyed it, sex made him freak out and caused our last (and final) split. Now I wish I had held off...even if doing so hadn't "saved" us, I wouldn't have had to watch him fall apart. It kills me what he went through and what I went through as a result. Anyway, it would just be hard for me to enjoy something I knew was hurting him.

Also, just to comment on what some others have said, when I refer to "acting out" I don't mean sex in itself (we all have sex for reasons other than romantic ones at times I think), but "acting out" in terms of reenacting his abuse with me. I don't want to have sex with him if he's doing it to disconnect to the abuse, if that makes sense.


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#374373 - 11/05/11 03:52 PM Re: Lovemaking/sex and the survivor - survivor ? [Re: hopeandtry]
hopeandtry Offline


Registered: 07/28/10
Posts: 476
P.S. I need to not read this thread for awhile...it's really triggering for me. Just thought I'd say that in case anyone posts anything directed to me. It might be awhile before I answer, if I answer at all.


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#374384 - 11/05/11 07:13 PM Re: Lovemaking/sex and the survivor - survivor ? [Re: hopeandtry]
Anniemy4sons Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 09/29/11
Posts: 98
Loc: NJ
By acting out I was not referring to the c/a but his sex addiction.

_________________________
God is my teacher, Jesus my comfort and the Holy Spirit my protector.
I AM Listening...

Thank you Mother Mary.
Pray the Rosary every day. http://www.comepraytherosary.org/

I BELIEVE IN HER PROMISE.

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#374540 - 11/07/11 08:11 AM Re: Lovemaking/sex and the survivor - survivor ? [Re: Anniemy4sons]
lucylives Offline


Registered: 04/07/11
Posts: 357
Annie, gretta, eldee and hope,

please read your pms


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#376197 - 11/20/11 12:12 PM Re: Lovemaking/sex and the survivor - survivor ? [Re: hopeandtry]
herowannabe Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/01/11
Posts: 386
Loc: USA
Can anyone shed some light for me on a survivor going from acting out to acting right to no longer acting at all?

How and why does a seemingly happily(?) married survivor go from spending two years in an exceptionally risky affair, which was supplemented with prostitutes, and excessive (and physically dangerous) masturbation to becoming a thoughful, attentive, loving sexual partner after the adultery is discovered, to becoming completely not interested in sex once the CSA begins to be discussed?

I am trying to "get it", but I don't. I'm trying to not feel even more demoralized and humiliated than I was before, but I'm failing. I am trying to pretend it doesn't matter, but it does.

Words of encouragement, wisdom and insight are greatly appreciated.

_________________________


For I know the plans I have made for you. Plans to give you a future and a hope. Jeremiah 29:11


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#376256 - 11/20/11 09:41 PM Re: Lovemaking/sex and the survivor - survivor ? [Re: herowannabe]
lucylives Offline


Registered: 04/07/11
Posts: 357
Hero,

The only word that comes to mind is SHAME.


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#376258 - 11/20/11 09:47 PM Re: Lovemaking/sex and the survivor - survivor ? [Re: lucylives]
JustScott Offline
Greeter Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 01/27/08
Posts: 2572
Yeah shame works.

I went years stuck in porn etc. Even into marriage where I definitely sought out sex with my wife as often as possible, while continuing to view porn.

Once I opened up about the past abuse it became a struggle. So much shame and anxiety. I went for quite some time with no porn or sex and actually found relief in not having to deal with either.

Give it time, his drive will come back as he hopefully works through things. It's not easy. Then once it's back its about setting up safeguards so old coping/escape strategies don't take over again. Like for me, having software installed on the PC to block the garbage and my wife set the password.



Edited by JustScott (11/20/11 09:47 PM)

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#376284 - 11/21/11 04:52 AM Re: Lovemaking/sex and the survivor - survivor ? [Re: JustScott]
Anniemy4sons Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 09/29/11
Posts: 98
Loc: NJ
yep, Shame. He probably can't bring himself to touch you. And I'm trying to not get scared reading your post.
I know that my husband NEEDED to make changes to our lovemaking/sex after everything was out in the open. When we started discussing his CSA there were certain positions that were triggers. (I just said, "Thank you for trusting me." I told him how much progress "WE'VE" made since disclosure and that was it. End of discussion). I find its a careful balance of what we talk about and what I just have to accept for right now. All in God's time not mine.

Look into Intimacy Anorexia. You're going to find your answer there. This may be something between the Sexual Addiction and the Child Sex Abuse.

Sending prayers your way right now....... done.

_________________________
God is my teacher, Jesus my comfort and the Holy Spirit my protector.
I AM Listening...

Thank you Mother Mary.
Pray the Rosary every day. http://www.comepraytherosary.org/

I BELIEVE IN HER PROMISE.

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#376292 - 11/21/11 08:47 AM Re: Lovemaking/sex and the survivor - survivor ? [Re: herowannabe]
Gretta Offline


Registered: 09/17/11
Posts: 239
Originally Posted By: herowannabe

How and why does a seemingly happily(?) married survivor go from spending two years in an exceptionally risky affair, which was supplemented with prostitutes, and excessive (and physically dangerous) masturbation to becoming a thoughful, attentive, loving sexual partner after the adultery is discovered, to becoming completely not interested in sex once the CSA begins to be discussed?


It makes sense to me. Sex has controlled him for so long in an unhealthy way. Sex is a tricky Maybe he has something he needs to work out in his own mind. He might also be having bad memories while having sex, we just had (may still be having) that problem. That if he closed his eyes or we were in a certain position he brought back memories of being abused.

If this lasts for a prolonged period of time I would be worried. If it is a phase then let him ride it out.


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#376303 - 11/21/11 11:02 AM Re: Lovemaking/sex and the survivor - survivor ? [Re: Gretta]
JustScott Offline
Greeter Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 01/27/08
Posts: 2572
For the longest time for me, I'd disconnect during sex. Once my wife knew... I couldn't disconnect any more, because she knew what was going on.

Once I couldn't disconnect anymore, My mind was back in that place when I was 8 and being used by a 13 year old girl....

Shame made it impossible, she would then get frustrated and blame herself for my inability, you know that whole, "If I was only...". Which made me feel even worse and made the next time things rolled around filled with even more shame and fear.

Oh how my heart still hurts while thinking on those moments.


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#376307 - 11/21/11 12:16 PM Re: Lovemaking/sex and the survivor - survivor ? [Re: JustScott]
Gretta Offline


Registered: 09/17/11
Posts: 239
Scott were you able to overcome the thoughts of abuse during sex? It doesn't worry me that it happens, it makes sense actually and I know it doesn't have any thing to do with me. I was just wondering. I could even see that from time to time that would pop up and I try and be aware of that.


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#376349 - 11/21/11 04:05 PM Re: Lovemaking/sex and the survivor - survivor ? [Re: Gretta]
JustScott Offline
Greeter Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 01/27/08
Posts: 2572
It took some time and truly, depending on my emotional state, it can still happen, but I think more than not anymore it's not an issue.

Not to say that the whole issue doesn't bring up anxiety, but if I take time and ease into it, it gives me time to quell the anxiousness.

More often than not though, it isn't until later that I realize that I didn't think about "Her" at all.


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#376410 - 11/21/11 11:18 PM Re: Lovemaking/sex and the survivor - survivor ? [Re: JustScott]
Anthony39 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/15/07
Posts: 345
Loc: Montreal, Canada
This is a very good and complex topic for me.
As a survivor i can't tell you how messed up it has been. SEX is the sun around which everything revolved. But it wasn't really about sex. It was and still is a problem of intimacy. I think acting out is not about sex, it's about controlling something in our life. Yes there is a sex act involved , but that is because we were trained that way. I don't act out but i may still use porn.
Sex and intimacy for me have always been in the past that dirty part inside that you did not share with anyone. That secret place you went to hide from reality. Sex was that inpure thing that you do. While the rest of your being has to remain pure in thoughts and acts. Of course it doesn't work like that. It's been about trust, about the ability of letting go, of being intimate (not necessarily with sex). Those are big obstacles. Sexual preferences? well we all have our quirks, fantasies, but you set some healthy boundaries i guess. I am discovering that sex is fun, silly even and really good to get two people close. And then there are times when i'm a 10 year old in the body of an adult and i can't. All bets are off. Not sure what triggers it, but sex is off the table then.

I hope this helps

Anthony

_________________________
Look up and not down; look forward and not back; look out and not in; and lend a hand.
E. E. Hale


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eM213aMKTHg

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#376431 - 11/22/11 02:19 AM Re: Lovemaking/sex and the survivor - survivor ? [Re: Anthony39]
kinghenri Offline


Registered: 05/06/09
Posts: 214
Loc: Tucson Arizona
Im starting to discover this myself, I'm pretty much the same way in this department.
I used to constantly obsess about it, but its alot better now
I can't wait till I have a beautiful girl hangin around, you know just being sweet and all.
The mood is calm, I'm not obsessing about sex, and then, BAM! We get busy lol.

*sigh*
Sorry lol

_________________________
"In my life, I have seen,
People walk into the sea,
Just to find memories,
Plagued by constant misery,
Their eyes cast down,
Fixed upon the ground,
Their eyes cast down

I'll keep my eyes fixed on the sun"

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#376442 - 11/22/11 10:57 AM Re: Lovemaking/sex and the survivor - survivor ? [Re: kinghenri]
Gretta Offline


Registered: 09/17/11
Posts: 239
Anthony your explanation is EXCELLENT! Thank you so much. I know how much my husband loves me so I wasn't worried if we had sex or not. No pressure. I figured when he was ready he would let me know. I am going to have him read this because you said it so well.

I know it is hard to deal with infidelity even knowing the CSA. It's hard no it's impossible to believe that it's not about you...but it really isn't.


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#376475 - 11/22/11 01:56 PM Re: Lovemaking/sex and the survivor - survivor ? [Re: Gretta]
Anthony39 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/15/07
Posts: 345
Loc: Montreal, Canada
It is difficult dealing with infidelity. I'm on the receiving end of that situation. It makes you feel so betrayed. But I don't think it's an excuse, CSA or not we still make choices. My wife chose to do what she did. we will see what happens. I am responsible for my own behaviour. Gretta don't loose yourself in your husband's pain, you are not a martyr, you have boundaries too , you have to be respected.

Anthony

_________________________
Look up and not down; look forward and not back; look out and not in; and lend a hand.
E. E. Hale


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eM213aMKTHg

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#376565 - 11/23/11 08:53 AM Re: Lovemaking/sex and the survivor - survivor ? [Re: Anthony39]
Gretta Offline


Registered: 09/17/11
Posts: 239
Thanks Anthony you are right! Now that all is revealed there is absolutely no tolerance for infidelity. There will be no more slip ups! It's hard to not lose yourself when someone you love more than anything is suffering. But he is adult, we have identified and are treating CSA and now has the tools to make the right decisions. I have proved my love for him and now it's his turn to step up to the plate. He either can or can't.

Ironically in between the flashbacks and bad memories he is happier than he ever was.


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#376568 - 11/23/11 09:59 AM Re: Lovemaking/sex and the survivor - survivor ? [Re: Gretta]
lucylives Offline


Registered: 04/07/11
Posts: 357
"Sex and intimacy for me have always been in the past that dirty part inside that you did not share with anyone. That secret place you went to hide from reality. Sex was that inpure thing that you do.'
Wow, Anthony, that really hit home from me. I think that is why my husband chose to act out with masturbation, hookers, phone sex and anonymous men. Other people who don't judge who are as wounded as he is, at least that is what i think of with my husband. And with me, he was not able to ejaqculate. Could only ejaculate with them. WTF is that about?

Henri,
I have read and watched a few of the videos you posted. God bless you! You are much stronger and more courageous than you give yourself credit for. You will find a women who will appreciate that about you. And your honesty.....wow. You are a catch, you just don't know it yet. I am sure there are other wives and S/O's on here who would also say we wish our husbands had that ability to articulate and be honest like you do.

You have much to offer and don't forget it.

Anthony, so sorry about the infidelity. We all deal with it and it SUCKS, to put it mildly. That pain is something we never want to have to experience again or actually never thought I would be dealing with. Ugh.


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#376581 - 11/23/11 11:30 AM Re: Lovemaking/sex and the survivor - survivor ? [Re: lucylives]
Anthony39 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/15/07
Posts: 345
Loc: Montreal, Canada
Lucy about the WTF.

I can only tell you what I feel myself, this may not apply for your husband.
I stopped looking at my wife as a woman, I saw her as a wife, a mother, again with that sense of purity i felt towards that role. I myself played the role of the husband and father without the intimacy and sexuality. It was all 2 dimensional. Sex was separate, I could play the sex guy but my mind wasn't in it. To be blunt it was like masturbation. It changed only when i started dealing with the csa. I could start being myself and explore my needs. That being said I always have had a strong sex drive . But sex is something to be shared and enjoyed, and with intimacy it is even better.
I hope this helps.

Anthony

_________________________
Look up and not down; look forward and not back; look out and not in; and lend a hand.
E. E. Hale


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eM213aMKTHg

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#377351 - 11/29/11 07:34 PM Re: Lovemaking/sex and the survivor - survivor ? [Re: Anthony39]
Shawushka Offline


Registered: 01/05/11
Posts: 128
Loc: VA
Very interesting post, thanks for starting this topic!
My husband is very needy in the social/emotional department which at first I thought was so sweet. After his csa was dislosed I wondered how much of it is really him and how much the result of the abuse.
He constantly needs to be physically close, touching, hugging, kissing. He's unable to deal with distance to the excess that he doesn't even give me room in the bed to sleep, he must cuddle up, hug me tightly.

What you write about sex is also something I recognize. My needs are always addressed first, I must come first, the sex must be incredibly enjoyable for me. His needs come second. It's impossible for him to just lean back and enjoy, he seems unable to receive.
In general I'd rate our sex life as good, but these are issues that make me think every once in a while.


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