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#373370 - 10/25/11 09:57 PM Survivors: Inner Child Question
Disappointed Offline


Registered: 08/11/09
Posts: 540
Loc: U.S.A.
Hi All,

I talked to my survivor friend over the weekend. I asked his alter how old he was. He's 12 and likes to act out.

Please tell me some techniques for helping an alter mature.

Pufferfish said to be kind and loving to him. Any other ideas, Please!!

Thank you,
D.

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Female.

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#373400 - 10/26/11 08:19 AM Re: Survivors: Inner Child Question [Re: Disappointed]
Tyler845 Offline


Registered: 11/04/10
Posts: 276
Loc: U.S.A.
I think puffer hit the nail on the head. Theirs no way to force anyone into maturing faster than what theyre comfortable with. An alter, as with any person, should be respected, n treated well in order to gain theyre trust.

_________________________
Most Often, The Child Inside Has Better Access To Execute The Flawless Potential Of Self.

Over-Ride Emotional Conflict With Rational Truths

You Are Freer Than You Think - Paul Berteaux

Come unto Me, all ye that Labor, and are Heavy-ladened. I will give you Rest -Jesus Christ

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#373403 - 10/26/11 08:28 AM Re: Survivors: Inner Child Question [Re: Tyler845]
Disappointed Offline


Registered: 08/11/09
Posts: 540
Loc: U.S.A.
I'm not talking about "faster." I mean simply, "How?"

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#373404 - 10/26/11 08:38 AM Re: Survivors: Inner Child Question [Re: Disappointed]
Tyler845 Offline


Registered: 11/04/10
Posts: 276
Loc: U.S.A.
Oh. Forgive me.

That's a very tough question, but I would say as long as you're their for him, n a really great friend, things will come along naturally. Maybe ask him some of his interests, n integrate them into the interaction. Probably thought of that already, but maybe a spark. I hope it works out for the both of you. Have a great day.

_________________________
Most Often, The Child Inside Has Better Access To Execute The Flawless Potential Of Self.

Over-Ride Emotional Conflict With Rational Truths

You Are Freer Than You Think - Paul Berteaux

Come unto Me, all ye that Labor, and are Heavy-ladened. I will give you Rest -Jesus Christ

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#373431 - 10/26/11 04:26 PM Re: Survivors: Inner Child Question [Re: Disappointed]
pufferfish Offline
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Registered: 02/26/08
Posts: 6875
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: Disappointed
Hi All,

I talked to my survivor friend over the weekend. I asked his alter how old he was. He's 12 and likes to act out.

Please tell me some techniques for helping an alter mature.



Dear Disappointed

I can imagine how frustrating it would be for you to have a relationship with a 12-year-old. I wondered about that with my own wife a few years ago.

There are all kinds of related questions. Is the alter boy (not altar boy) the main alter? Or just one of them (probably). You have to find out what kind of memories he has in that alter. Does he contain the memories of trauma and abuse? (That was my case). Or is he perhaps the main one who didn't "remember" the abuse? Remember in the book about this (The Fractured Mind). Bobby in there was the "container" of the abuse.

If as I suspect the 12-y-o alter has all kinds of degraded memories of abuse, then they're going to be pretty heavy. And they're going to heavily mold his thinking and behavior. Maybe that's what he means by acting out. I would guess that the 12-y-o needs to talk to someone who has skill in that area (talking to an adult body who is really a child). You can do some of it but it will get very heavy. If you do, take notes, that is keep a journal of progressive revelations.

What helped me the most was EMDR. The EMDR sessions would begin with a present situation (possibly of what you're calling "acting out"). Then the EMDR will open up the childhood trauma and connect it with his adult self. That process may have to be repeated several different times. You need someone skilled in EMDR because it shouldn't be done by an amateur.

Allen


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#373446 - 10/26/11 07:42 PM Re: Survivors: Inner Child Question [Re: pufferfish]
Disappointed Offline


Registered: 08/11/09
Posts: 540
Loc: U.S.A.
Originally Posted By: pufferfish
Originally Posted By: Disappointed
Hi All,

I talked to my survivor friend over the weekend. I asked his alter how old he was. He's 12 and likes to act out.

Please tell me some techniques for helping an alter mature.



Dear Disappointed

I can imagine how frustrating it would be for you to have a relationship with a 12-year-old. I wondered about that with my own wife a few years ago.


Dear Puffer,
I don't mind him being 12-years-old. He's very sweet, just like a child. What I mind is that he really just wants me to play his game.

Originally Posted By: pufferfish
There are all kinds of related questions. Is the alter boy (not altar boy) the main alter? Or just one of them (probably).


I'm pretty sure he's got one "Apparently Normal Personality" (a term I got from a therapist's book on multiples) which is his main personality, and two behind-the-scenes alters. The ANP works hard to pretend there's no dark past, and stays busy to avoid thinking.


Originally Posted By: pufferfish
You have to find out what kind of memories he has in that alter. Does he contain the memories of trauma and abuse? (That was my case). Or is he perhaps the main one who didn't "remember" the abuse? Remember in the book about this (The Fractured Mind). Bobby in there was the "container" of the abuse.


The alter I deal with definitely remembers trauma. Not sure about the rest. We haven't gone into detail. And I gave him my book.

Originally Posted By: pufferfish
If as I suspect the 12-y-o alter has all kinds of degraded memories of abuse, then they're going to be pretty heavy. And they're going to heavily mold his thinking and behavior. Maybe that's what he means by acting out.


He doesn't say "act out." I did. He wanted his alter to become beside himself with anxiety, which he did.

Are you saying, when his alter who contains the trauma memories discusses these memories, his behavior will begin changing and/or diminishing? Or will only the EMDR begin that?

Originally Posted By: pufferfish
I would guess that the 12-y-o needs to talk to someone who has skill in that area (talking to an adult body who is really a child). You can do some of it but it will get very heavy. If you do, take notes, that is keep a journal of progressive revelations.


He sees a therapist almost every week. I am hoping the therapist will start talking to the alters.

Originally Posted By: pufferfish
What helped me the most was EMDR. The EMDR sessions would begin with a present situation (possibly of what you're calling "acting out"). Then the EMDR will open up the childhood trauma and connect it with his adult self. That process may have to be repeated several different times. You need someone skilled in EMDR because it shouldn't be done by an amateur.
Allen


I've mentioned EMDR to him; he has kept his treatment decisions close to his chest.




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#373447 - 10/26/11 08:24 PM Re: Survivors: Inner Child Question [Re: Disappointed]
Disappointed Offline


Registered: 08/11/09
Posts: 540
Loc: U.S.A.
And really, Allen, what started me on this posting, was the utter anxiety of his alter . I felt very badly for him, and it made me uneasy to hear him so miserable and undone.



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#373471 - 10/27/11 01:02 AM Re: Survivors: Inner Child Question [Re: Disappointed]
pufferfish Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/26/08
Posts: 6875
Loc: USA
D...

It all sounds kind of familiar. I went through a lot like that. It does get better. Little kids work for affection they need.

Allen


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#373495 - 10/27/11 08:43 AM Re: Survivors: Inner Child Question [Re: pufferfish]
Disappointed Offline


Registered: 08/11/09
Posts: 540
Loc: U.S.A.
I see.

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#373736 - 10/29/11 10:26 PM Re: Survivors: Inner Child Question [Re: Disappointed]
mmfan Offline


Registered: 09/25/11
Posts: 114
I've found that his child parts need safety, consistency, caring, and firm boundaries. For instance, when he is in 4-year-old boy mode, he is very very sensitive to my tone of voice and does best when I keep my voice quiet, calm and gentle. He also seems more secure and reassured when I set limits on his behavior. Even his pre-teen boy who is full of mischief seems to appreciate my telling him (in a caring and calm way) what is ok and what isn't -based on my boundaries, and based on what I believe is healthy and appropriate for a child his "age". I think it gives him a sense of safety that indulging him wouldn't necessarily give.
It used to feel a bit weird being a "parent figure" of sorts but now I realize that its simply part of being close with him, because his child parts are part of him. And I feel honored that he trusts me enough to show those sides.

I guess I would ask whether this game your friend plays is healthy for him at the mental age of 12. In this situation, you are the "adult" between the two of you, though he looks and sounds like a grown man, my guess is it's up to you to set healthy limits. Given his anxiety it sounds like it's having a negative effect on him, and it sounds like you feel uncomfortable and disturbed by it also. Is it possible to have a caring, gentle yet firm talk with him and explain that this game isn't ok and that you need to find something else to do together?


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#373786 - 10/30/11 03:39 PM Re: Survivors: Inner Child Question [Re: mmfan]
pufferfish Offline
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Registered: 02/26/08
Posts: 6875
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: mmfan
I've found that his child parts need safety, consistency, caring, and firm boundaries. For instance, when he is in 4-year-old boy mode, he is very very sensitive to my tone of voice and does best when I keep my voice quiet, calm and gentle. He also seems more secure and reassured when I set limits on his behavior.

It's my understanding that children 6 and under can form DID personalities most easily, although the military and CIA have worked with forming DID in adults.

I received abuse (csa) starting before I was 4. For kids that young they can (I think this is how it goes) just "imagine" a different alter or personality. It can happen very quickly. It's kind of like having an imaginary friend. Then as they shift into that friend or alter with increasing instances of abuse, the friend becomes an independent alter and progressively becomes more distinct from the original alter.

I think that the gentle firmness idea is a good one. I had a mother with a very strong personality. That in some important ways helped me a great deal. For instance, when abuse started, I started wetting the bed again, although I had gone beyond that developmentally. My mother told me much later that she had a little talk with me about it. Since she was kind of an iron lady, I wonder how that was. But apparently I stopped wetting the bed. She was so successful in that that I still cannot go to sleep at night without getting up to urinate.

Then later, after abuse at 12 she was probably still firm with me. Probably too form for a normal boy. But I wasn't normal anymore. I needed firm boundaries.

I will write more on this later.

Allen aka puffer



But she might have overdone it.


Originally Posted By: mmfan

Even his pre-teen boy who is full of mischief seems to appreciate my telling him (in a caring and calm way) what is ok and what isn't -based on my boundaries, and based on what I believe is healthy and appropriate for a child his "age". I think it gives him a sense of safety that indulging him wouldn't necessarily give.
It used to feel a bit weird being a "parent figure" of sorts but now I realize that its simply part of being close with him, because his child parts are part of him. And I feel honored that he trusts me enough to show those sides.

I guess I would ask whether this game your friend plays is healthy for him at the mental age of 12. In this situation, you are the "adult" between the two of you, though he looks and sounds like a grown man, my guess is it's up to you to set healthy limits. Given his anxiety it sounds like it's having a negative effect on him, and it sounds like you feel uncomfortable and disturbed by it also. Is it possible to have a caring, gentle yet firm talk with him and explain that this game isn't ok and that you need to find something else to do together?



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#373806 - 10/30/11 06:06 PM Re: Survivors: Inner Child Question [Re: pufferfish]
Disappointed Offline


Registered: 08/11/09
Posts: 540
Loc: U.S.A.
I've asked this in an email to him, and he never responded. He does that. If I ask something he doesn't like, he just ignores the question.

About your Mom, Puffer, that behavior was a sign that should have caused her to ask questions instead of worrying about the bed.

Speaking of which, how's your EMDR going?

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#373820 - 10/30/11 07:53 PM Re: Survivors: Inner Child Question [Re: Disappointed]
KMCINVA Offline
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MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/31/11
Posts: 1708
I put the pain and hurt to my inner child, buried him and would fight to keep him that way. But life brings new traumas and events and I could no longer hold my child down-buried for over four decades and when he came back my life became out of control. I lost time and began to self abuse and destruct. I was most likely emotionally aloof for a long time prior to this, but I was always in control of who I was. So I am making time to heal with the child, talk and integrate him into my life. I know he is part of me and should not have been pushed to the depths of my mind.



Edited by KMCINVA (10/30/11 08:09 PM)

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#373829 - 10/30/11 09:58 PM Re: Survivors: Inner Child Question [Re: KMCINVA]
Disappointed Offline


Registered: 08/11/09
Posts: 540
Loc: U.S.A.
Well, as I understand it, creating that alter quite possibly saved your life.

But my question is, is there a reason one alter would want to hurt another alter?

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#373864 - 10/31/11 09:55 AM Re: Survivors: Inner Child Question [Re: Disappointed]
KMCINVA Offline
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MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/31/11
Posts: 1708
I have only come across the child and myself. From what I understand, the alter with the hurt and pain only knows hurt and pain and sees it as a way of life. The child also seeks control because the abuse was inflicted by someone else and he felt he had no control over the situation. So when the child acts out he seeks abuse--self abuse or destruction (mutilation, drugs, recreation of the abuse etc.) except now he controls the abuse no matter the consequences to the child or the other parts. The child was deprived of love and only received the pain of abuse and hurt.

This is my understanding as to why the inner child acted out in my case and was able to take control. I still grapple with this but the lost time and the non recovered memories seems to support. I am now trying to talk to the child and integrate. For over 4 decades I denied him and kept piling the pain, he was the wound that the poison of abuse spread throughout his being.

I understand others have multiple alters but I have only met the child but the T thinks there may be another wounded alter that hinders me from letting go of the self blame and guilt. He says I need to invite all the parties to the table. I am working on the child and I hope he is the only alter. This gets exhausting.

I do better understand unprocessed trauma and memories now. I hope this helps



Edited by KMCINVA (10/31/11 10:25 AM)

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#373870 - 10/31/11 11:31 AM Re: Survivors: Inner Child Question [Re: KMCINVA]
Disappointed Offline


Registered: 08/11/09
Posts: 540
Loc: U.S.A.
Yes, and I hope you get some rest along the way.

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#373970 - 11/01/11 11:24 AM Re: Survivors: Inner Child Question [Re: Disappointed]
pufferfish Offline
Member
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Registered: 02/26/08
Posts: 6875
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: Disappointed
Well, as I understand it, creating that alter quite possibly saved your life.

But my question is, is there a reason one alter would want to hurt another alter?


The process can go on and on. If someone receives repeated abuse and if they already learned to "split" as as small child as a defense mechanism, then they can develop many alters. There are some who have as many as 108. But that is rare.

Puffer


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#374000 - 11/01/11 04:30 PM Re: Survivors: Inner Child Question [Re: pufferfish]
Disappointed Offline


Registered: 08/11/09
Posts: 540
Loc: U.S.A.
Hi Puffer,

No, the number isn't what I'm questioning. I mean, let's say you have a front personality, and 2 alters. Alter 1 is let's say a 12 year old boy, and Alter 2 is a 8 year old girl.

Is there some reason Alter 1 would want to inflict emotional upset onto Alter 2? I could be wrong, but I think that's happening with my guy.

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#374024 - 11/01/11 10:33 PM Re: Survivors: Inner Child Question [Re: Disappointed]
pufferfish Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/26/08
Posts: 6875
Loc: USA
Disappointed

Yes, I have definitely read about others having alters who were very hostile to some of the others. Sometimes they "fight". One alter will think he's in control or wants to be in control and is jealous with one or more of the others. In the book The Fractured Mind, there is such an occurance. Also it's in the book: The Minds of Billy Milligan. Sometimes an alter will inflict punnishment on the body by cutting or doing something else harmful.

For one thing, the alters have different agendas right from the start. One has the purpose of not being aware of abuse and remains relatively free that way, while the other bears the horrible memories and the pain. That can come to be a rather difficult impasse. But if you consider that they start out being separate and grow continually apart as they have different experiences, then you can see what a difficult situation that would be.

Allen / Puffer


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#374068 - 11/02/11 11:36 AM Re: Survivors: Inner Child Question [Re: pufferfish]
Disappointed Offline


Registered: 08/11/09
Posts: 540
Loc: U.S.A.
Hi Allen,
I started reading "The Minds of Billy Milligan," but it seemed more a novel, rather than fact. Do you think it was factual?

My friend doesn't do any cutting or anything.

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Female.

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#380875 - 12/27/11 10:53 PM Re: Survivors: Inner Child Question [Re: mmfan]
Disappointed Offline


Registered: 08/11/09
Posts: 540
Loc: U.S.A.
Originally Posted By: mmfan
[W]hen he is in 4-year-old boy mode, he is very very sensitive to my tone of voice and does best when I keep my voice quiet, calm and gentle.


MMfan, I agree, my tone of voice is very important. For the youngest alter, whom I guess to be 5 or 6, occasionally he can't switch from that alter if I don't control my voice.

Thanks for this input because it lets me know my experience is not unique.
D.

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Female.

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#380879 - 12/28/11 12:08 AM Re: Survivors: Inner Child Question [Re: Disappointed]
pufferfish Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/26/08
Posts: 6875
Loc: USA
There is a book: The Peter Pan Syndrome. I've never read it but I perused it quickly in a local store.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0380688905/

It's talking about men who never grow up. I need to look at it again to see if it's relevant to this discussion.

There's a lot of discussion in MS about 'inner child' stuff. I'm still not sure if that's the same as a dissociated inner child.

Puffer


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#380895 - 12/28/11 08:41 AM Re: Survivors: Inner Child Question [Re: pufferfish]
Disappointed Offline


Registered: 08/11/09
Posts: 540
Loc: U.S.A.
I also question if "inner child" is the same as dissociated.

Thanks Puffer,
D.

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Female.

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