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#373135 - 10/22/11 08:58 PM Trusting the Ignorant
earlybird Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/17/10
Posts: 1007
Loc: WA USA
Iíve been silently pondering on this for some time now and would like your opinions.

When I talk with a person or group about the difficulties I have with certain ASA issues (oh, letís say for instance- my lack of trust in authority but it could be anything really) and they either donít respond or at least not in a way that Iím able to perceive as supportive, whose fault is it Ė mine or theirs?

My knee jerk reaction is to shift this blame onto those I perceive as not allowing me room to breathe or to freely and safely express myself. But what two years at MS has taught me is that Iím fully to blame for this awkward moment of misunderstandings between those who "know" of a certain type of injury and those who do not. (How can I expect a fish to understand or empathize with how it feels to drowned)

With this new understanding Iím more fully aware of my responsibility in deciding to whom and when to trust or at least take a risk in the ability of the listener/s to empathize when they have no real framework to truly understand. The wisdom MaleSurvivor has provided me with is that to lay myself fully exposed with my feelings, beliefís and thoughts bare (no matter how accurate or misguided) will only server to embarrass and shame myself and the onlooker as well.

ASA men Iíd like to know, what has been your experience?

_________________________
Balanced (My goal)

There is symmetry
In self-reflection
Life exemplified
Grace personified

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#373143 - 10/22/11 11:02 PM Re: Trusting the Ignorant [Re: earlybird]
Darkheart Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/30/05
Posts: 331
Loc: Illinois
At this stage of my recovery, I am more empathic ans tend to place blame where it belongs. But, I too get that knee jerk reaction ....just rarely have the balls to say or do something about it...

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My Story...

http://www.malesurvivor.org/board/ubbthr...8711#Post348711

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#373256 - 10/24/11 06:11 PM Re: Trusting the Ignorant [Re: Darkheart]
Tyr Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/05/11
Posts: 164
remember it took us a while sometimes to get to where we are. and the world does -not- necessarily see things in kind or ideal terms. i urge caution as there are many who are rapist collaborators and dont know it. they are the ones who will think the man who raped you is hot. or that after a month you should be over it. people dont want to deal with suffereing and so its best to put on a smile and trust a very tight inner circle if you can. good luck

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Once you hear the details of victory, it is hard to distinguish it from a defeat.

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#373286 - 10/25/11 12:06 AM Re: Trusting the Ignorant [Re: Tyr]
earlybird Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/17/10
Posts: 1007
Loc: WA USA
Tyr,

Iíve read and reread, stalled for a few hours and then read your words again. I truly appreciate your caution to ďtrustÖ.. a very tight inner circleĒ for Iíve made that mistake, especially here believing that because Iím with brothers in a mutual struggle that Iím among trusted friends. I wonít so easily be deceived on this point again.

Tyr, Iím struggling to understand your definition of a ďrapist collaboratorĒ and was hoping you might give me more insight on this thought. Iím always interested in a different perspective especially those that I donít have a common concept of. It is from listening to those who differ in their point of view that I best grow and learn and define my understandings and therefor - beliefs. Thank you for sharing, Earlybird




Edited by earlybird (10/25/11 12:08 AM)
_________________________
Balanced (My goal)

There is symmetry
In self-reflection
Life exemplified
Grace personified

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#373418 - 10/26/11 12:33 PM Re: Trusting the Ignorant [Re: earlybird]
Tyr Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/05/11
Posts: 164
read Alice Vachs book "Sex Crimes" it is an oldie. but a classic.

rapist collaborators are the people that want their rape victims to claw and fight every step ofthe way. refuse to think of rapists as anyone other than the boogey man in the bushes which we knowis not true over 80 percent of the time. they want their victims pretty but not too pretty, strong but not too strong, and well spoken and educated. otherwise they dont beleive a rape occurred or even empathize with the rapist and help him get free or avoid prosecution. theyre out there guys, lots of em. SORRY

_________________________
Once you hear the details of victory, it is hard to distinguish it from a defeat.

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#373421 - 10/26/11 12:37 PM Re: Trusting the Ignorant [Re: Tyr]
Tyr Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/05/11
Posts: 164
read this for more info on rapist colloborators

http://www.vachss.com/guest_dispatches/alice_vachss.html

_________________________
Once you hear the details of victory, it is hard to distinguish it from a defeat.

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#373422 - 10/26/11 12:46 PM Re: Trusting the Ignorant [Re: Tyr]
Tyr Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/05/11
Posts: 164
_________________________
Once you hear the details of victory, it is hard to distinguish it from a defeat.

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#373436 - 10/26/11 05:33 PM Re: Trusting the Ignorant [Re: Tyr]
earlybird Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/17/10
Posts: 1007
Loc: WA USA
Tyr,

Thanks for the reply to my query and especially for the links you posted in order to give me some background understanding to the term ďrapist collaboratorsĒ. I have to agree that there is a real bias against many, if not most, raped individuals by society and people living within those societies. In fact even both of these articles showed a bias against adult rape victims. Nowhere in either article was male rape victims recognized. I see this as ignorance on the writerís part not as them being ďrapist collaboratorsĒ for to me they were supporting the ignorant thinking that only women can be raped were they not?

I think that both types of people exist (ignorant or uncaring people or the much worse person, rape collaborators) but Iím wondering, isnít it important not lump both types of people and their thinking into the same category. Tyr, Iím not suggesting this is what you are doing just clarifying that my post was referring to the individuals and groups (here and elsewhere) that remain ignorant by either intent or non-intent. As to the rapist collaborator you speak of - he/she/them can all go to hell.

_________________________
Balanced (My goal)

There is symmetry
In self-reflection
Life exemplified
Grace personified

Top
#373438 - 10/26/11 05:55 PM Re: Trusting the Ignorant [Re: earlybird]
Tyr Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/05/11
Posts: 164
the articles were from 1993. Ms. vachs is an amazing professional. if you re read it, she does not exclude men. but yes the focus is more on women, it was 1993 after all. but if you focus on that you are at risk of missing the point.

_________________________
Once you hear the details of victory, it is hard to distinguish it from a defeat.

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#378798 - 12/09/11 07:57 AM Re: Trusting the Ignorant [Re: Tyr]
Tyr Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/05/11
Posts: 164
it takes courage to trust and risk is ok in small healthy portions guys. but the world is not quite yet prepared to see adult men so vulnerable and it sucks. we are where female victims were 30 or 40 yr ago ....

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Once you hear the details of victory, it is hard to distinguish it from a defeat.

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