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#372624 - 10/17/11 10:21 AM Lies, transparency, moving forward
GoodHope Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 07/05/11
Posts: 415
I am struggling with how to proceed with a liar you can't prove is a liar. I know in order for us to move forward, I am supposed to give the benefit of the doubt, but its difficult if you don't believe what your husband tells you.

I'm also not good at hiding what I am feeling, even though I try. So I think he sees right through me and he starts talking about things he knows I'd want to hear him say. He starts doing things to make me happy. And it just confuses me, which may be his intent.

I wish for concrete evidence. It doesn't even matter to me which side it falls on. I just want to know.

_________________________
Wife of a survivor

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#372625 - 10/17/11 10:54 AM Re: Lies, transparency, moving forward [Re: GoodHope]
lovingBen Offline


Registered: 06/19/11
Posts: 38
Hi Eldee--

you know i am going through the same thing as we speak...i just got back from T this morning, after a weekend of deep soul searching...here's my present rest stop...

i keep looking for those same signs that i can hang my hat on about what he says and does.

the problem is, they have spent their entire lives lying and deceiving about all kinds of things, silly and serious, as a means to survive and hold back terror, etc.

they will always be better at it than us, and they love us and need us to stay so they will say and do whatever they can to keep us here.

the truth is, we'll never really know whether they were at the store, had a late meeting at work, got stuck in traffic, or wherever it is they say they were or were doing when they aren't with us...in a normal relationship, we trust our partners that they are honest with us...in those relationships, dishonesty is a dealbreaker.

but we are stuck loving men we know can't be truthful, and we know it's not their fault...and we juggle our need for honesty and the pain its absence brings us alongside what they are going through.

i am desperately looking for the ability to take care of me the way Martin has encouraged us all to do...not quite sure how to do that yet and still balance all this...

my small step for today is to go back to not believeing a single word he says about anything that did not occur in my presence...that sucks, and it makes me feel like why am i here if that's my trust level??...but for now, it's how i stay safe and sane for a bit while i sort my own shit out.

looking for the impossible concrete signs of anything with him has only caused me to feel comforted by false prophets to my despair later, exhaust myself trying decode a bunch of crap that i will never whether i was right about, and worrying constantly about things that may or may not be happening but which break my heart and make me jeolous all the time...NO GOOD CAN COME OF THAT!!!

lord knows what that all means, but this little rest stop is giving my space and safety to start thinking about me and normal things again for the first time in a long time...well, at least a little anyway.

someone told me yesterday, two years is nothing to a man who has spent the last 30 protecting himself from all this...even the giant breakthrough's we see are likley tiny tiny steps for them.


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#372626 - 10/17/11 11:05 AM Re: Lies, transparency, moving forward [Re: lovingBen]
hopeandtry Offline


Registered: 07/28/10
Posts: 476
It is so difficult to deal with a person who lies compulsively. My ex told me so many things (before we even dated) that I believed and came to find out they were lies. Things like his ex fiance was killed in a car crash. He of course lied about other things during our relationship, and even lied on his profiles on websites to make himself feel better about himself. I know part of it was dissociation or something like that, and part was fear, but that doesn't make it okay. I had more evidence for some things, but I know how it feels to have a gut feeling and when you ask, they just tell you what you want to hear. My advice, focus on whether he is getting help in general for his issues. The lying may continue (at least for a time), but the important thing to me was whether my ex could admit the problem and get help for the underlying issues. The lying won't stop til the pain is dealt with. I tried to make it clear to my ex that I understood the root and was willing to work through it, but he was not willing to do so...so we split. I don't know if this helps but just hang in there.


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#372629 - 10/17/11 12:01 PM Re: Lies, transparency, moving forward [Re: hopeandtry]
whome Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/07/11
Posts: 1734
Loc: Johannesburg South Africa
Hi Eldee
Sorry about the struggle

Lies lies lies, we survive on them. They are told, for me, as part of my alters, my different Persona's that I have (had) and the lies were to somehow tie these together the only place that I could be me. (At home)

So..... what is it you said
"I am struggling with how to proceed with a liar you can't prove is a liar. I know in order for us to move forward, I am supposed to give the benefit of the doubt, but its difficult if you don't believe what your husband tells you."
NOT TRUE.

My Beautiful used to attack me head on and tell me, "Honey I love you but I don't know if you are telling the truth"
This statement would make me think carefully about what I said next, if I lied then, she would often catch me out.
She installed K9 onto the computer without telling me, and would ask me (and I laugh at this point)

"Have you had the urge to go online for porn?" (Sweet concerned and supportive questioning tone)
My reply (and I am laughing)
"not at all love, I haven't done it since the last time"
" Are you sure" (Again the sweet questioning tone)
"Absolutely" (feeling a little unsure at this point)
"I want you to think about it, be sure" (Slightly sterner tone)
(Now I am in terrible Doubt about if I Have or haven't)
"Love I'm positive that I HAVE NOT"
"OK so when was the last time"
"Oh well about four months ago"
"Are you absolutely sure" (really firm tone of voice)
"Yes love, why are you asking me these questions, DON'T YOU TRUST ME?'
"Well on the ** of Feb you searched for naked Jennifer Aniston, and Naked Courtney Cox, then on the $$ you searched for......"
Bust!!!
Broken and dejected, I got caught out like this three or four times before I realized it was not worth the effort.

So why do I tell you these anecdotes?
Well set up situations where you can check, and test, after all, you to are allowed a life through all of this.
You will catch him and he will learn to stop.

Lying like many other things is something that we need to learn to stop, so, help him.
Remember that It may hurt sometimes, but it will be worth the effort.

_________________________
Matrix Men South Africa
Survivors Supporting Each other
Matrix Men Blog

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#372634 - 10/17/11 12:35 PM Re: Lies, transparency, moving forward [Re: whome]
Disappointed Offline


Registered: 08/11/09
Posts: 540
Loc: U.S.A.
I'm very jealous of you all. My "friend" won't even be in my presence. He just likes to talk on the phone and email/text, whatever.

I would put up with just about any lie he wanted to tell, if he would just show up!!!

D.

_________________________
Female.

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#372639 - 10/17/11 01:24 PM Re: Lies, transparency, moving forward [Re: Disappointed]
GoodHope Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 07/05/11
Posts: 415
Martin, I think you have highlighted the real dilemma for me. I don't want to have to check up on him. When I suspected cheating I went through his phone and his email and I hated myself. I made me sick. I asked him to go to the store for me. He was gone longer than it should take and he said he took a nap in his car (it was 10 pm). The store is 2 miles from our house. If he was that tired he should have said so. I called him on it to the best of my ability. I told him that made no sense. None. So it's him standing his ground and me standing mine. And it's stupid. This kind of crap I didn't stand for in my 20s, why start at 40?

_________________________
Wife of a survivor

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#372640 - 10/17/11 01:27 PM Re: Lies, transparency, moving forward [Re: GoodHope]
GoodHope Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 07/05/11
Posts: 415
Disappointed, I hope you are joking honey because this is not what healthy relationships look like. Sick relationships may have different symptoms but in the end, it's still sickness.

_________________________
Wife of a survivor

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#372642 - 10/17/11 02:07 PM Re: Lies, transparency, moving forward [Re: GoodHope]
Gretta Offline


Registered: 09/17/11
Posts: 239
I never wanted to have to be one of those wives... always suspicious. I thought if I had to do that it just wasn't worth it. Now I am one of those wives. All my husbands sisters don't let their husbands out of their sight, never have. It's a family joke. They randomly show up where their husbands say they are going to be. I use to laugh but I wonder is that what you have to do? It is daunting to think and wait and wonder about the next lie. Right now I THINK he's being honest and my instinct says he's not lying. So go with your instinct. I don't think it's let you down. Who naps in the car on a 2 mile car ride? I am assuming your bed is more comfortable than a car. That doesn't even sound like a good lie.

My questions is will they ever love us more than the lies and when does our love win over the abuse. When does good overtake evil. I know it's not the simple but can he start replacing the horrific sexual acts done to him as a child with the loving acts we have done for 15 years?

One day at a time. One day at a time.


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#372709 - 10/18/11 02:05 AM Re: Lies, transparency, moving forward [Re: Gretta]
whome Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/07/11
Posts: 1734
Loc: Johannesburg South Africa
Quote:
My questions is will they ever love us more than the lies and when does our love win over the abuse. When does good overtake evil. I know it's not the simple but can he start replacing the horrific sexual acts done to him as a child with the loving acts we have done for 15 years?


They have already.
The fact that we have stopped drinking and that we still live at home is testament to the fact that love works. Hey we are alive.
Without my wife's persistent love I would have drank myself into the gutter and beyond.
Never give up, As long as the H is working on recovery, dont give up.
I love all you guys for the simple act of trying
God speed all of you

_________________________
Matrix Men South Africa
Survivors Supporting Each other
Matrix Men Blog

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#372729 - 10/18/11 10:53 AM Re: Lies, transparency, moving forward [Re: whome]
hopeandtry Offline


Registered: 07/28/10
Posts: 476
Love doesn't always work. Didn't work for me. If he'd been trying to get help, maybe it would have.


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#372731 - 10/18/11 11:27 AM Re: Lies, transparency, moving forward [Re: hopeandtry]
Disappointed Offline


Registered: 08/11/09
Posts: 540
Loc: U.S.A.
Hi Eldee,

Yes, I was serious. My envy is incalculable.

D.

_________________________
Female.

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#372785 - 10/19/11 02:04 AM Re: Lies, transparency, moving forward [Re: Disappointed]
whome Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/07/11
Posts: 1734
Loc: Johannesburg South Africa
OK let me Clarify

Love always wins when both Desire the same outcome.
Sorry Hope, Didn't mean to scratch an old wound.

_________________________
Matrix Men South Africa
Survivors Supporting Each other
Matrix Men Blog

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#372818 - 10/19/11 01:29 PM Re: Lies, transparency, moving forward [Re: whome]
Gretta Offline


Registered: 09/17/11
Posts: 239
Martin,
I sure as heck hope so. The statistics on my marriage surviving aren't very good. We have much love and desire to make it work but I have to say I am getting tired.

Dear Hope If I could I would love to run from this, fast and far, but I can't so consider yourself lucky.

I keep saying to myself that my father in law and all the older kids that hurt my husband as a little boy are NOT going to win. My children and I are going to win this one.




Edited by Gretta (10/19/11 03:48 PM)

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#372854 - 10/19/11 08:34 PM Re: Lies, transparency, moving forward [Re: Gretta]
GoodHope Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 07/05/11
Posts: 415
It's funny you say about the perps not winning. I said almost the same thing except exchange perps/for the devil. I believe my husband's main perp was/is? a sick individual being used by Satan himself to wreak havoc hear on earth. I know, crazy religious talk, but I look at the destruction and it doesn't end in the dark rooms that our loved ones were alone with perps in. It lingers....for DECADES...it destroys families...with addictions...drugs, alcohol, pornography and adultery. It creates distance between the survivors and God because of the shame it leaves them with(and shame is the true mark of the devil--it says you ARE bad and can keep you from surrendering to God because you believe you have to be "good enough" and you mistakenly think that you are bad or damaged. If that ain't the mark of the devil, I just don't know what is! I'd be a liar if I denied that there are days where I have thought (and said aloud!) "Devil, you can have this one. I'm done!" But so far, I've waited long enough to see another day that says, "Not this one, not this time, not my husband, not my family."

_________________________
Wife of a survivor

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#373453 - 10/26/11 09:37 PM Re: Lies, transparency, moving forward [Re: GoodHope]
hopeandtry Offline


Registered: 07/28/10
Posts: 476
@Martin, it's okay...I'm just saying love isn't always enough.

@Gretta, I suppose I am lucky, but on the other hand, I wish I had someone who was willing to work on things...if he's not, he's not, but it still hurts knowing he wasn't willing.


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