Newest Members
lilac, The Wife Of, smusab, whiteflag, North101
12287 Registered Users
Today's Birthdays
DruidWolf (39), Harry (33), knigh50 (53), mike54 (56)
Who's Online
3 registered (fhorns, Shockwave, ethereo222), 29 Guests and 7 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Forum Stats
12287 Members
73 Forums
63211 Topics
442002 Posts

Max Online: 418 @ 07/02/12 07:29 AM
Twitter
Page 1 of 2 1 2 >
Topic Options
#367655 - 08/08/11 12:49 AM Anti-Disclosure Reality
Still Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/16/07
Posts: 6374
Loc: 2.5 NATO Nations
After having been personally run through the hot coals and seen countless others' total destruction, I've come to the firm conclusion that "CSA Disclosure to ANYONE not properly positioned for reciept of the news, ought NEVER happen."

Who is "Properly-positioned?"

NO family members: Even spouses whom have sworn alliance to you have NO farging clue how to handle such news and then deal with our requisit healing steps. The spouses don't need to know! I FULLY believe that we cannot heal while dealing with the anguish of our spouses that will be labelled abundantly with our names.

NO Parents: I don't think anyone above age 12 ought to tell any parent...ever. They will never look at you in a good light again. They will trip all over their freaking tounges and your emotions with stupid, ill-informed questions and postulations that will metasticize like an agressive cancer in your soul. They questions and second-guessing will hang in the air over you for EVER. "Will Johnny be gay?" "Why didn't he stop it sooner?" They simply DON'T need to know...ever!

NO Clergy: When I meet a member of the clergy who can handle the news of CSA, I'll change my position for THAT ONE PERSON. in the interrim, I include ALL clergy as being fully inept in dealing with us and our pain.

Is all this "unfair?" Maybe, but the hell that will likely shower down upon you is off-the-charts unfair. So don't even look at this on a scale of a "fairness" continuum. Look at it instead as a direct-missile-hit you don't need to take and may not survive.

The myths are a real and monsterously large issue we all have to deal with. NO ONE but those properly-positioned people even begin to understand this aspect to our servival.

So who IS properly positioned to hear our story? Its a darn short list!

Those who are educated and trained to deal with the CSA stories properly and will not be legally able to betray us. i.e.: Therepists.

We've seen betrayal and torture at asstounding scales. No one wants to hear this from us. I wish I had NEVER trusted ANYONE with this except a T. "Telling our story" is the one aspect of the Mike Lew convention that simply does not hold water. No good can ever come from an adult disclosing CSA to any ill-prepared and fully educated people.


Copying to F&F for their comments.

_________________________
Jesus Loves The Hell Outta Me!

Still's Globs

New Video

Top
#367662 - 08/08/11 01:26 AM Re: Anti-Disclosure Reality [Re: Still]
Sacred_Sage Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 12/19/07
Posts: 141
Hello,

I don't want to offend you, and I certainly don't mean to if I do. A lot of what you have said has some merit, but not quite all. I can only relate to you from my experience, and since I don't know what you went through my understanding compared to yours may be inadequate. Basically, I cannot judge you.

I am a strange bird. I am a clergy member (in my church and at a very young age which is not strange in the religious belief I have). I am also a CSA survivor. I am also being trained in social work as well as researching therapies for people who are abused. Does this make me able to help you or others? No, not really. Do I still have trouble telling people I was abused? You bet it.

In my experience, I have always been late telling people that I was abused; however, I spend a lot of time with a person before I go out and spill the beans. I slowly bring it up over time, and often, I just let the matter drop to see how they react to what I say. When I feel comfortable enough and I think they'll receive some insight into my personality, then I disclose.

I have been helped greatly by sharing my story, and my unique point of view being a young, CSA survivor, clergy member. I have learned that there are many like us who are out there. Many of them going through the same issues that I have. We talk and talk and talk about different issues (much like we do on here). It seems to be mutually beneficial.

I will relay that this is my experience, and I can only rely on what I know. I know that this way of wizardry or hog-wash or therapy or whatever you call it... doesn't work for everyone. It took a long time for me to find something that I was comfortable with... I saw three therapists before I found the right match on my beliefs and standing. After the second session, I felt really relieved because the T's personality and my personality matched up.

Of course, I'm a self-help kinda guy. I was reluctant to let others in. I told my friends (they still don't know how to help me, but that's okay. Least I know they try to do their best), and my family (since my mom is a survivor and my dad's father was a perp) are very understanding... though I will say that they are even more protective of me than what I would like, but I do my own thing regardless of what they say or do... cause I am me.

I am sure you're hurting, but I want to say that I am here for you even if that doesn't mean too much to you at the moment. I'll repeat that again too... I. am. here. for. you. (if you want it and even if you don't want it). smile

I'm hoping that you'll find that right balance, and you can move forward... cause standing still doesn't help anyone.

Let me know what I can do for you if you want anything done.

Cameron

_________________________
http://youtu.be/HL297ZTYVRM <---- In case you ever wondered what I sound like.

Top
#367663 - 08/08/11 01:39 AM Re: Anti-Disclosure Reality [Re: Sacred_Sage]
Still Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/16/07
Posts: 6374
Loc: 2.5 NATO Nations
Hey Cameron,

Its been a while and very good to see you here.

Getting right to the dance: I've had collar-curling encounters with clergy that ought to be drummed out of the flok-leading biz until they get their act together on reality. I mean stories that blister the psychy and soul abound!

Do realize though that much of my disclosure was taken out of my control via divorce procedings and the subsequent public and published record my healing journal became. OH...I need to add Judiciary! Evryone I personally trusted with my story (with the exception of two) pulled the most magnificent dissapearing act.

AMMENDMENT: NO Judiciary! Have not met nor heard of the judge that realizes the myths are myths. Drag before me the exceptions and I shall record said exception to this rule.

Anyway...have you ever seen a 5-yo girl-victim of a 12 yo boy-perp shown the door of the church? I have. I love my Lord and savior Jesus Christ, but I hate and fear people who THINK they are his in a theme of non-righteous rule and judgements...but they are for him to "chastise." (crackle-crackle)

_________________________
Jesus Loves The Hell Outta Me!

Still's Globs

New Video

Top
#367667 - 08/08/11 02:11 AM Re: Anti-Disclosure Reality [Re: Still]
Kaene Offline


Registered: 07/04/11
Posts: 40
Loc: Ausin, TX
There is definite logic to what you've said, but also there are some things that I just can't agree with. Everyone's situation is different, that is sure, but when bringing someone into the loop is a vital part of our healing, what then?

Quote:
NO family members: Even spouses


I came clean to my wife about 3 months ago. About everything, the abuse, the rape, the confused feelings, the SSA (but not the prostitution). So far although she can't understand the true depths of my suffering, she has been an angel. She understands that I'm in pain, if not exactly how deep the pain runs. She's done her best to accept the SSA and incorporate it into our life, and my honesty has brought us closer together as a couple. She hasn't had any sexual abuse in her past that I know of, but she has had a very rough childhood of which I won't speak because it's not my story to tell. She understands and my willingness to deal with my issues has deepened our bond. There are times where we have miscommunications and misunderstandings but we both feel that it has made us stronger.

And what about my brother and I. He is a familly member, and also a perp. And I don't blame him for what he did because he himself is a victim. And how to I reconcile that within myself if I can't talk to him about what happened. Not just between us but everything that's happened to me. How can I ever find closure? And what about those memories I have that are floating just out of reach? How can I find an answer for them if I can't ask him for his story?

Quote:
NO Parents: I don't think anyone above age 12 ought to tell any parent...ever.


This one is a little more grey for me, but something I feel I need to do. I know my parents blame themselves for my substance abuse, and my father constantly lectures me to this day about what I should could and have to do. I barely talk to them and it has nothing to do with my dad's behaviour, I know it's just his way of telling me that he loves me. And I lean on them financially whenever things get rough. So how do I explain to them that I think they are the best parents that a kid could ask for, how do I appologize for what I've become if I can't explain to them why I am who I am today? How can I possibly come to believe that I have done nothing wrong when I can't share my experiences with the 2 people who are supposed to love me no matter what?

Quote:
NO Clergy


I'm with you on this one, not only am I an athiest, but I'm also a second hand survivor of clerical abuse. Having a masters in divinity does not make you a therapist/marriage counsilor, and please stop pretending that it does.

I have yet to talk to my brother or my parents, but this is something I've been really struggling with lately, I know you have had very bad experiences in all these areas but I have to hope that your story is not the rule, or at least that my own will be an exception. When I told my wife I fully expected it to be the end of our marriage and probably my legal fatherhood, but instead it has been the start of something greater. I continue to hope that disclosure to the people who matter most to me will be therapeutic rather than destructive.

I may be naieve, but I'm also optimistic.

_________________________
"Do you think God lets you plea bargain?" - Calvin & Hobbes

Top
#367684 - 08/08/11 08:26 AM Re: Anti-Disclosure Reality [Re: Kaene]
Still Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/16/07
Posts: 6374
Loc: 2.5 NATO Nations
Originally Posted By: Kaene
There is definite logic to what you've said, but also there are some things that I just can't agree with. Everyone's situation is different, that is sure, but when bringing someone into the loop is a vital part of our healing, what then?


Kaene. I'm sure you realize this, but just to be sure, this is my position on disclosure after 4-years of post-disclosure observation and first-hand experience.

I just want to say, I was exactly where you are in your reply....100%. I thought and felt that Little Robbie needed to be heard at least "loved ones" be advised as to why my life was so different...why it was falling apart all around me, etc. Little Robbie had a right to be heard. It was high-time for him to be heard.

I am in full agreement with all I've stated above. NOW, however, I realized the reality of human reactions, acting, intent, desecption and organic inability to help. Rather, humans seem much more likely to destroy than to fix, heal or support. It IS my experience. It IS my observation. I felt I needed to advise outside hikers of the mine-fields before they tread here.

_________________________
Jesus Loves The Hell Outta Me!

Still's Globs

New Video

Top
#367686 - 08/08/11 08:46 AM Re: Anti-Disclosure Reality [Re: Still]
kb8715 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 07/16/10
Posts: 808
Guys we need to measure our experiences purely by our own experiences. N=1 here only.

Abused by my pastor....horrible and unthinkable.

Told my wife.....HUGE SUPPORT.

Told my Catholic Priest (I converted) HUGE COMPASSION AND SUPPORT

A man here I respect greatly (he's a young survivor) is encouraging me to tell my kids. He has done so with his parents and his best freinds and is far ahead of many of us in recovery. Made a deal with him when I do disclose to my kids he will be at a dinner table with them after.

We need to balance our real pain and real suffering with our real successes too.

Sorry guys, with the greatest respect every possible outcome is possible, even good ones....

Be well gents. We all deserve only the best.

Keith

_________________________
"You can get far in life by pushing except through a door marked PULL...." Profile quote in my oldest son's senior year HS Yearbook.

Top
#367701 - 08/08/11 12:08 PM Re: Anti-Disclosure Reality [Re: kb8715]
Still Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/16/07
Posts: 6374
Loc: 2.5 NATO Nations
Keith,

I'm absolutely wowed by your experience. Its encouraging that people like yours exist and that a survivor has them in his corner.

Please realize (and you do via N=1) my experience has been fully opposite and I've observed many many like me.

What I WANT is for people to find what you have. I also want them to know the other side.

Reading your account has literally lifted me a bit.

BTW: I've committed to never tell my kids. Past human performance data forecasts bad outcome. Not that my kids are creeps, but that I've never experienced anything good from any family member at all. They are ALL I have left in life, and thus are the glue of what life I have. I don't feel I need them (or want them) to see me being what I was as a child. I'd rather they see me as a mentally-ill being (as they do now).

I would welcome any input on the 'disclosure to kids' element from you and/or your MS frnd if you think it may help.

_________________________
Jesus Loves The Hell Outta Me!

Still's Globs

New Video

Top
#367709 - 08/08/11 12:40 PM Re: Anti-Disclosure Reality [Re: Still]
kb8715 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 07/16/10
Posts: 808
Hey, I got nothing but love & respect for you as another survivor Robbie. I so wish I could make it better for us all.

Last night a new guy asked why I cared. Simple truth is a year ago I was tossing coins on rolling off a roof (had it picked) or fighting it out. I promised myself when the coin landed on fight, I'd do what I could to pull some other guys with me.

On the kids....scares me Sh*tless. But a man here my oldest son's age pretty much said I followed your advice, when will you follow mine? He's tough scrappy survivor chewing this up and spitting it out. And he always makes sense, thats my dilema now.

Will let ya know how it goes. But I ain't ready yet.

Please be well.....

Keith

_________________________
"You can get far in life by pushing except through a door marked PULL...." Profile quote in my oldest son's senior year HS Yearbook.

Top
#367710 - 08/08/11 01:20 PM Re: Anti-Disclosure Reality [Re: Still]
well-intended Offline


Registered: 04/15/11
Posts: 124
Loc: Belgium
Originally Posted By: Robbie Brown

Those who are educated and trained to deal with the CSA stories properly and will not be legally able to betray us. i.e.: Therepists.


I, for one, have been mistreated by mental health care. I don't know exactly what laws prevent abuse from mental health care in the US, but here it's perfectly possible to verbally abuse your clients, without repercussions.

"You just love your mommy, don't you?" the psychiatrist said when I told her my mother had violated me. Her tone was suggestive and belittling. That kinda felt like hitting a brick wall. I don't know whether she's sadistic, or has narrowed her mind to Freudian psychoanalysis.

Apparently I can't complain without committing defamation. She's the doctor, I'm the looney. She is right, and I should shut the fuck up and behave. That seems to be the moral of the story.

She also asked whether I was "already" contemplating suicide. Already. That oh so little detail, that one suggestive word...


Top
#367714 - 08/08/11 03:19 PM Re: Anti-Disclosure Reality [Re: kb8715]
CruxFidelis Offline


Registered: 06/16/10
Posts: 486
Loc: NJ
I am dealing with ASA, not CSA, so I don't know if my comments are worth anything on this thread but I have positive disclosure experiences:

A Catholic priest was the first person I told who wasn't a cop. I told him in confession. I initially thought that what happened to me was because I sinned in some way. He told me that the sin was on the rapist's soul, not mine, and he gave me the number for a therapist. He told me that God knows my heart and that if I couldn't get away, it was not my fault.

The therapist he referred me to has been a big source of support for me, but there is not much of a personal relationship with him. I really don't know much about his life and it's not my business. He and I are not best buds, it is a client/therapist relationship. I think there is a huge benefit to telling someone who actually has a relationship with you that is based on friendship or marital intimacy. It means something very different when you get support from a friend, or a spouse.

My siblings have been supportive.

I have told some people who treat me in a healthcare capacity, and they are supportive, or at least not unsupportive.

I have not told my mother, and my father is dead. If it is up to me, she will never know. Not because I don't think she would understand, but because it would upset her to the point where I think it would really harm her peace of mind.

I haven't told my friends, and I am not planning on going there.

I wouldn't have told my wife if it wasn't for hearing stories on here of affirmation and support from their spouses/significant others. It wasn't right to tell her right away, because she had just had a baby and I wanted her to bond with him well without thinking about what happened to me. I told her and she supported me.

My wife has CSA and has told several Catholic priests about it and has never gotten any guilt from clergy. We have a friend who is a nun, and she has been a source of support to her. But she was raped by a therapist, which according to your post, is the only type of person you should tell.

I think, for me, the long and short of it is that there are loving, supportive parents (I hope to put myself in that category) and there are unloving parents. There are supportive, trustworthy spouses, and then there are selfish spouses. There are true friends, and there are fairweather friends.

We don't get to choose our family of origin. Sometimes the people we trusted most can betray us. And sometimes people in certain roles, such as clergy, teachers, therapists or healthcare workers, can betray us too and harm our ability to relate to other innocent people who might have the misfortune of making the same vocational choice as another person who hurt us.

What we can choose, is to surround ourselves with positive people who will build our spirits up, and not cut us down. We can work to make the relationships we have life-giving relationships, rather than relationships that suck the life right out of us. And I believe that there are kind-hearted souls in all walks of life, whether they are parents, spouses, mentors, clergy, therapists, or friends.

That's my experience and that is all I can really offer here.



_________________________
“If a man wishes to be sure of the road he treads on, he must close his eyes and walk in the dark.”

- Saint John of the Cross

Top
Page 1 of 2 1 2 >


Moderator:  ModTeam, TJ jeff 

I agree that my access and use of the MaleSurvivor discussion forums and chat room is subject to the terms of this Agreement. AND the sole discretion of MaleSurvivor.
I agree that my use of MaleSurvivor resources are AT-WILL, and that my posting privileges may be terminated at any time, and for any reason by MaleSurvivor.