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#366487 - 07/24/11 11:31 AM Re: Virginia schools intolerant? [Re: Driftwood]
Ever-fixed Mark Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 01/02/10
Posts: 729
Loc: United States
I heartily agree, Driftwood.

My hope is that because of the insights and mitigations that come from research like this that future lesbian, gay, bi, and transgender school children won't have to endure the terrible bullying that so many of us faced in our lives.

But that isn't the only thing I hope they don't have to face.

In general, bullying victims in school experience the most child maltreatment, and the highest rates of sexual victimization. Cause and effect isn't clear, but no child should have to experience any of these abuses in their lives.

-efm

_________________________

Everybody here's got a story to tell
Everybody's been through their own hell
There's nothing too special about getting hurt
Getting over it, that takes the work

- "Duck and Cover" by Glen Phillips

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#366587 - 07/26/11 03:50 AM Re: Virginia schools intolerant? [Re: Ever-fixed Mark]
grumplestiltskin Offline


Registered: 04/14/11
Posts: 30
Loc: Denver CO
If you're going to cast doubt on studies based on their author's motives then pretty much any study is going to be useless. Short of pure science like chemistry and physics the only science that gets done is paid for by someone with some sort of interest in the outcome. But just because something is social science rather than pure science and is performed by someone with an interest, it doesn't mean it's useless. Short of peer review or review by someone with a social science type Phd, we'll never know for sure. Strangely enough, I don't find your word very convincing.

You know, I didn't think that EFM was especially mean or hurtful or whatever. He was sharp, perhaps. But I'm not really sure what reaction you expected when you came into the LGBT forum and slyly insinuated that everything is fine for the damn queers and they should just shut their traps and quit their whining. And also, they don't really exist, anyway. I mean that's the clear subtext of your post, right? Or am I horribly misunderstanding and victimizing your precious snowflake self? Maybe I'm one of those evil gay activists who only understands their own pain? Or is that exactly what you're doing?

There's that whole saying about when you point a finger at someone else, you have three pointing back at you. And a thumb sort of pointed down and off to the side.


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#366594 - 07/26/11 06:46 AM Re: Virginia schools intolerant? [Re: Driftwood]
philistine Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 04/27/09
Posts: 211
Loc: Oregon
87% of all statistics are BS.
All this study is saying is that this group of people had some questions about how some kids were treated in school.

We are all pretty sure that we know how the kids answered. I would rate pretty sure as being 85%, pretty much the same percentage as the study.

All studies are biased, the fact that there is a study biases what is being studied (pretty sure of this, 85%).

One of you is stating that the study is biased because, well, it is. I am also sure (75%) it is pretty accurate.

I have not determined if this study was done at Princeton, in a lab or if it was done by a group of field organizers, loosely affiliated with GLSEN, doing their best to get as much information as they could to a group that is trying to protect children, but pretty sure that it is closer to the latter. How was that for a run on sentence. But i am sure (75%) that the fake numbers show pretty accurate statements about the lives of these people.

Stop bitching, you are both right.



Edited by philistine (07/26/11 06:53 AM)
_________________________
Mike

"No price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself" - Nietzsche

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#366600 - 07/26/11 09:02 AM Re: Virginia schools intolerant? [Re: philistine]
Driftwood Offline


Registered: 05/27/11
Posts: 86
Loc: Colorado
USELESS STATISTICS:
“Since 1984, the Buffalo Bills have won only two games in which they were four points ahead with less than six minutes to play.”

“A preliminary census report indicates that for the first time in our nation’s history female anthropologists outnumber male professional golfers.”

“The latest poll indicates that 72 percent of the American public believes we should withdraw economic aid from Nicaragua.” (Later in the article, we learn: “Of those who expressed this opinion, 28 percent thought Nicaragua was in central Asia, 18 percent thought it was an island near New Zealand, and 27.4 percent believed that ‘Africans should help themselves.’”)


USEFUL STATISTICS:
“...one out of every four black males between the ages of twenty and thirty has spent some time in prison.”
“...the nation’s expenditure for the education of black children is 23 percent less than for white children.”

Accuracy of specific numbers may be debatable (that’s why pollsters publish margins of error), but gay children reporting incidences of harassment is a useful statistic. Knowing people are being harmed or treated unfairly, we can take steps to protect them.

(Statistics from Neil Postman’s “Invisible Technologies” 1992)


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#366613 - 07/26/11 11:29 AM Re: Virginia schools intolerant? [Re: Driftwood]
Ever-fixed Mark Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 01/02/10
Posts: 729
Loc: United States
The great thing about science is that it requires things to be repeatable, encourages researchers to build upon and test existing hypotheses, and it expects reasoned skepticism when insights are unexpected or unexplained.

When a study is an outlier (finding an incidence that no other study has found) it sets other researchers in the field on the track of understanding why and how such a finding occurred and comparing it to their own, often peer reviewed research. And there is plenty of research in this field to use as a baseline.

Reviewing a sample of the aggregate academic research (including the peer reviewed research) in this area, the GLSEN study doesn't say anything new or controversial, or qualify as an dramatic outlier in terms of the incidence of specific types of homophobic bullying it reports. From School Psychology Review, 2008, Volume 37, No. 2, pp. 202–216 " Homophobic Teasing, Psychological Outco...d Schools Have? " by Dorothy L. Espelage, Steven R. Aragon, and Michelle Birkett of the University of Illinois at Urbana—Champaign and Brian W. Koenig at K12 Associates:

Quote:
Gay and lesbian people frequently experience incidents of homophobia. Pilkington and D’Augelli (1995) reported that 83% of gay and lesbian youth experienced some form of victimization, which included verbal insults, threats of violence, physical assault, and sexual assault. In a national postal survey of 4,216 LGB individuals from the United Kingdom, Mason and Palmer (1996) found that, of those respondents under 18 years of age, 40% of all violent attacks had taken place at school, with 50% of those being perpetrated by same- or similar-aged peers. Finally, in a 2002 study, D’Augelli found that 81% of LGB youth reported they had been verbally abused, 38% had been threatened with physical as- sault, 15% had been physically assaulted, 6% had been assaulted with a weapon, and 16% had been sexually assaulted.

These forms of victimization clearly parallel those behaviors associated with bullying as identified by bully researchers. Rivers (2001) reported that name-calling, assault, and teasing (82%, 60%, and 58%, respectively) were frequent forms of bullying experienced by gay and lesbian students, and that a majority of the name-calling was homophobic in nature. Rumor spreading (59%) and social isolation (27%), which could be considered relational forms of aggression, were also reported.

There has been little effort to integrate the areas of bullying and homophobia, despite the shared interest of these two fields in studying prevalent forms of aggression. Given the reported high rates of victimization from both bullying and homophobia during adolescence (Eslea & Rees, 2001; Pilkington & D’Augelli, 1995), consideration of this association is warranted. Although several qualitative studies have been conducted examining the role of homophobia in aggressive behavior (Kimmel & Mahler, 2003; Phoenix, Frosh, & Pattman, 2003; Plummer, 2001; Rivers, 2001), there are few quantitative studies that have examined the relation between homophobic verbal content and bullying among high school students.

None of these numbers seem surprising when compared with the GLSEN data, and most importantly none of them say that homophobic bullying isn't a problem. More:

Quote:
In a quantitative research study of middle school students (Poteat & Espelage, 2005), a significant association was found for both males and females between bullying and homophobic behavior, specifically use of homophobic verbal content. In that study, the Homophobic Content Agent Target scale was developed to assess the extent to which students (a) called other students homophobic epithets (i.e., agents) and (b) were called homophobic epithets by other students (i.e., targets). The scale distinguished between types of relationships (e.g., friends or enemies) and perceived sexual orientation. Strong associations were found between the use of homophobic content and several forms of aggression, including bullying, fighting, and relational aggression. Furthermore, greater use of homophobic content was also associated with lower empathic concern and perspective taking and more frequent delinquent behavior. Students who were targeted more frequently also reported higher levels of anxiety and depression, other forms of victimization, and a lower sense of school belonging.

Bullying and homophobia are linked, and there are strong associations between homophobic content and aggression.

Quote:
An additional strength of this study is its broad sampling of all school children across many high schools. Much of the previous research on LGB students has been conducted on convenience samples of LGB children, who are often involved in community LGB organizations (Williams et al., 2005). By utilizing a normative sample, this study shows a more accurate view of all students, not just those who identify themselves publicly as LGB.

I need to dig into how they achieved the normative sample (reaching closeted LGB kids) but it potentially may provide a more complete picture by including those who are not out. Overall, however, it's a concern that there is no representation of trans kids who suffer terrible bullying, violence, and health outcomes and these persist when they become adults. The findings of the research aren't a surprise:

Quote:
Although all children or adolescents will experience negative consequences when parents and schools are unsupportive, this study confirms that sexual minority students are particularly susceptible to these outcomes and in need of support. These results expand on previous research that has shown that social and institutional support are essential components of maintaining well-being in sexual minority youth, as well as all students (D’Augelli, 2002, 2003; Hershberger & D’ Augelli, 1995; Mufioz-Plaza et al., 2002). As hypothesized, this study also found that sexual minority youth were more likely to report high levels of depression–suicidal feelings and alcohol–marijuana use. These results support previous literature indicating that LGB youth report higher prevalence of depression (D’ Augelli, 2002; D’ Augelli, Pilkington, & Hershberger, 2002; Rivers, 2001), suicide (D’ Augelli, 2002; Elliot & Kilpatrick, 1994), and drug use (Orenstein, 2001; Rosario, Hunter, & Gwadz, 1997). Although many sexual minority students indicate high rates of these negative outcomes, students receiving support from parents and schools reported significantly less depression–suicidal feelings or less alcohol–marijuana use.

And unsurprisingly for any research project, it's recommended that more research is needed:

Quote:
Another surprising finding was that although LGB students reported significantly more homophobic teasing than heterosexual students, they did not differ in their reports of general victimization experience. They did, however, score differently on a homophobic bullying scale. This suggests that homophobic bullying is not assessed very well by current victimization measures. However, homophobic bullying is a prevalent form of abuse in schools that leads to numerous negative outcomes for the children involved. If schools and researchers wish to prevent victimization in schools, homophobic bullying and teasing must be assessed with a more direct measure than one assessing general victimization experience. This is supported by other research that has found that homophobia and bullying, although related, are two different but equally important constructs that must be assessed (Poteat & Espelage, 2005).

There is a lot of academic research in this field that can be used to validate the hypotheses and results of interest group research like that of GLSEN's. The reason you don't hear a hue and cry about GLSEN's findings in the research community is that they are not really surprising, and track what is being seen in other related academic research.

-efm

_________________________

Everybody here's got a story to tell
Everybody's been through their own hell
There's nothing too special about getting hurt
Getting over it, that takes the work

- "Duck and Cover" by Glen Phillips

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#366688 - 07/26/11 09:28 PM Re: Virginia schools intolerant? [Re: Ever-fixed Mark]
Fissy Tsickens Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 09/23/08
Posts: 466
Loc: Bassett, Virginia
Wow. Sorry all. Didn't mean to start an argument. As a former kid abused by bullies, and a Virginia educator, I was just sharing some info to hopefully bring a problem to light to make things better for kids. That's all.

Peace (for crying out loud),

John

_________________________
Wish that I could cry
Fall upon my knees
Find a way to lie
About a home I’ll never see

It may sound absurd...but don’t be naive
Even heroes have the right to bleed
I may be disturbed...but won’t you concede
Even heroes have the right to dream
It’s not easy to be me

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#366692 - 07/26/11 10:39 PM Re: Virginia schools intolerant? [Re: Fissy Tsickens]
Driftwood Offline


Registered: 05/27/11
Posts: 86
Loc: Colorado
No need to apologize, FT. So much good has come out of this! I feel privileged to be a part of it, and I've learned a lot. I especially appreciate the generous work of EFM in shedding light on the nature of polling, data collection, margins of error, etc. That's enlightening. It's also useful to know that bullied kids are more prone to be sexually abused and that there are organizations out there, in addition to GLSEN, who are working to protect the vulnerable.

I'm sorry you were bullied. I was too. I know what that's like. (Does that make us brothers in an odd way? Hope so!) Thanks for starting this thread.


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#366718 - 07/27/11 07:47 AM Re: Virginia schools intolerant? [Re: Driftwood]
prisonerID Offline
Greeter Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/17/08
Posts: 1247
Loc: Oklahoma
FT,

I have to second what Driftwood said - it is up to each individual how they respond to what is written on any thread. Many are simply trying to get the word out about bullying and harassment and you did good job with that.

You also did it without bringing a personal agenda to this thread. I cannot say that for all who responded here but I think about all of us did.


Daryl

_________________________
Broad statements often miss their true mark.

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#366749 - 07/27/11 04:57 PM Re: Virginia schools intolerant? [Re: prisonerID]
Fissy Tsickens Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 09/23/08
Posts: 466
Loc: Bassett, Virginia
Thanks, Drift and Daryl! I really was just trying to help kids. My childhood was a living hell and I don't want any other kid to have those kind of experiences.

Thanks for your support!

blush

Peace,

John

_________________________
Wish that I could cry
Fall upon my knees
Find a way to lie
About a home I’ll never see

It may sound absurd...but don’t be naive
Even heroes have the right to bleed
I may be disturbed...but won’t you concede
Even heroes have the right to dream
It’s not easy to be me

Top
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