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#36437 - 06/25/02 12:49 PM CURED??????????
michaelb Offline
Member

Registered: 04/21/01
Posts: 211
Loc: cincinnati, ohio
I've been reading several posts of late which refer to being cured. Is that really possible??? I think not, well at least not for me..I've read the books professing curing patients, but i've met quite a few people at this site and i find very few that i would ever give the definition of cured to.....maybe Lloydy and Brian.....but few others....In fact, i'm not certain they are cured, but have reached a position in recovery where they see things in the big picture and are able to put the abuse in perspective in their lives...Many people i've met here have been in therapy for quite awhile and still feel the effects of the abuse to varying degrees...Maybe therapy helps, but I really question whether it will ever really change my life...After spending another sleepless night, i really have to wonder if the pain of facing the abuse really has any benefit or if it is just feeling sorry for myself..CURE????????? Does anybody here really feel cured????????? michael


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#36439 - 06/25/02 01:42 PM Re: CURED??????????
Lloydy Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 04/17/02
Posts: 7071
Loc: England Shropshire
Michael
thanks for thinking that maybe I'm cured, I wish...
When I went for assesment for therapy I was asked if I expected a cure, and like everyone else I said "yes". It was then made clear to me that a cure wasn't available, but help was. Thankfully I accepted that option.
I feel that I will always have some kind of baggage to haul about, in fact it's something I now accept. I still get flasbacks, depression, panic attacks, I have trouble being intimate with my wife still. But on a scale of 1 to 10 I'm way down low compared to where I was 5 years ago.

Therapy has changed my life, I have said before I was lucky to get an SA specialist who did a superb job. I have no doubt at all that any kind of recovery is impossible without outside intervention.
I had always thought that I wasn't completely stupid, and that I had enough brains to solve my own problems, I knew I was in deep shit for the best part of 30 years, but all I ever did by myself was go around in circles. Each time I acted out I told myself I would stop, simple really.
But it didn't work, I needed to go back to the root cause and, as you so rightly say, put my abuse into perspective with the big picture of my whole life, and especially my future.
Putting SA into perspective is a huge challenge, it's dominated our lives more than we ever realised, it's only since I began my recovery that I discovered just how bad I was !! But as I progressed the "importance" of my SA reduced, and the bigged reason for that was- IT WASN'T MY FAULT.

My opinion is that if anyone offers a cure for SA it's bullshit, behaviours can be modified- I no longer act out, but the memories can't be erased and maybe they shouldn't be. My memories, however painful, just serve to remind me what a bunch of scumbags they were and how strong I really was.
Lloydy

ps. WillP just slipped his post in while I was writing this-
Quote:
If I am wrong and there is a cure for this, please don't cure me. Although I struggle on a daily basis and there are many very negative things associated with my abuse, it is the sum total of all of my life experiences that makes me who I am. And I accept who I am.
You're right about that, and if I'm an awkward SOB who gets in peoples faces when dealing with people who don't accept SA problems then so be it, but my wife thinks I'm a better person now than I've ever been.
I am what I am.
Lloydy \:D

_________________________
Go confidently in the direction of your dreams! Live the life you've imagined. As you simplify your life, the laws of the universe will be simpler.
Henry David Thoreau

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#36440 - 06/27/02 02:21 AM Re: CURED??????????
Broken Offline
Member

Registered: 03/25/01
Posts: 273
Loc: Huntingtun Beach, CA, US
cure? cure what?

there is nothing wrong with us. Its the world that is screwed up, we are just trying to heal our wounds. You dont cure a broken bone or a cut. We arent infected, we are injured.


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#36441 - 06/27/02 07:36 AM Re: CURED??????????
edwin garcia Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 02/12/02
Posts: 7
Loc: columbia sc
I BELIEVE THAT THERE IS A LOT OF DEPRESSED PEOPLE IN THIS FORUM. AND DEPRESSION IS AN ILLNESS. THERE IS A CURE FOR DEPRESSION AND ONCE THE DEPRESSION IS TAKEN CARE WE CAN TAKE CARE OF THE PAIN OF THE PAST. THUS THE HEALING PROCESS CAN BEGIN. I KNOW, I HAVE GONE THIS ROUTE AND IM FEELING A WHOLE LOT BETTER ABOUT MYSELF AS A PERSON. I HAVE FRIENDS THAT I CAN TRUST. I AM BECOMING LESS FEARFUL OF GOING INTO THE REST ROOMS. I AM ON MY WAY TO RECOVERY, BUT FIRST I HAD TO TAKE CARE OF MY DEPRESSED STATE OF MIND.


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#36442 - 06/27/02 12:21 PM Re: CURED??????????
michaelb Offline
Member

Registered: 04/21/01
Posts: 211
Loc: cincinnati, ohio
I agree....depression is the answer..But how do you cure depression?????? I guess the abuse causes us to become depressed at times, but it seems my depression never really leaves me..Sure I might have a day that i'm not down, but it seems like even then i purposefully make myself sad as punishment for being "happy". I have been diagnosed with major depression, and am currently taking zoloft, with mixed results....I quit taking it for several weeks and definitely became more deeply depressed, so I realize it does have an impact...But it is not a panacea for the depression...so what is the long term "CURE"?????Is depression curable????? i know it is treatable, but will I ever really feel normal????? How did you defeat DEPRESSION???????????? michael


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#36443 - 06/27/02 07:39 PM Re: CURED??????????
edwin garcia Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 02/12/02
Posts: 7
Loc: columbia sc
MICHAEL ITS HARD TO BEAT DEPRESSION. MOST TIMES YOU DONT EVEN REALIZE THAT YOU JUST WENT INTO A DEPRESSED STATE. IT HAPPENED TO ME. I LOST A MONTH WITHOUT REALIZING IT BECAUSE I WAS SO ABSORBED. I WASNT HELPING MYSELF EITHER BY SMOKING POT. I SURROUNDED MYSELF WITH FRIENDS, GAVE UP SMOKING POT AND I AM TAKING 60 MG OF CELEXA. I ALSO SEE A THERAPIST EVERY WEEK. MAYBE YOU NEED TO MAKE SOME CHANGES IN YOUR ROUTINE. CHANGE YOUR ENVIRONMENT, GET TO KNOW YOURSELF, MAKE NEW FRIENDS OR SOCIALIZE WITH OLD BUDDIES. WHATEVER BUT I THINK MAKING CHANGES IS KEY. BEING ABLE TO IDENTIFY WHAT IS CAUSING YOU TO BE DEPRESSED IS A START.


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#36444 - 06/28/02 12:55 AM Re: CURED??????????
MrDon Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 01/08/01
Posts: 957
Loc: Deltona, FL
I'm not sure about being cured or healed or anything like that because I'm probably not at that point right now. However I can say that there is much more distance between myself and the effects of the abuse. It doesn't paralyze me with fear like it once did. The thing I struggle with now is the retraining of myself to deal with things in life and just the normal maturing process. I am learning and realizing that the abuse has made me what I am today. Some of it was good and some I am trying to change.

Oh, just a side note,,, typing in all caps is very hard to read. Just a personal opinion.

Don

_________________________
In order to journey to new worlds, we must first be willing to lose site of the shore.

The Mind Body Thoughts Blog
http://mindbodythoughts.blogspot.com/

Check out my relaxing piano music from the heart!
http://www.donshetterly.com

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#36445 - 06/28/02 04:35 AM Re: CURED??????????
Broken Offline
Member

Registered: 03/25/01
Posts: 273
Loc: Huntingtun Beach, CA, US
i think the primary reason most treatments for addiction, mental problems, and depression especially, fail, is because we see it as an illness. That is wrong. The condition of your brain being chemicly altered and manipulated, that could be considered an ilness, becuase that is a raw neurological problem. But the psychological aspect, that is a HUMAN condition, just like sadness, happiness, or love. The thing i hate most about the science of psycholigy is the mundane, rigid, horrifyingly inhuman way we try to classify and subjagate emotional responses. It is coming from a horrifying perspect of complete nihilism.

According to a lot, (but not all) of psychiatrists, happiness is sedation, anger is a defense mechanism, love is the urge to reproduce, and depression an illness. The irony of thier denial about the way they logical go about denying emotion and promoting reason over passion usually escapes them, as well as the extremes they will go to to justify man and themselves as being in abusolute control of thier envorinment. This "rational" thinking is what allows so many of us to devalue human emotion and justify crimes against nature. It is the ultimate joke, because in the end, we are the ones who will have to pay for it, life will go on without us.

Yes there is truth to neorochemistry and its effect on us, as well as the brain chemistry of those who are addicted to substance abuse, but it is only a small part of the problem, mostly it is a result of something, not the cause. While you can not underestimate the effect it has on people, it is ultimately up to the individual what choice they decide to make. Why do you think so many herion addicts can never quit? The get tottally clean, then the moment they leave rehab the get hooked again. This is because we are only treating the symptoms, we are not looking for a cure.

I really believe we effect reality simply by willing ourselves to do or believe something. And i think everybody has to make that choice somewhere down the line, they have to decide if thier existance is an accident, or if life has some meaning beyond conditioned responses and behavioral science. Even a scientist has to confess to believing in something, even if its nothing more than logic itself. But there definately seems to be order in the universe, patterns and cycles occur all the time, and nature seems to have an intrinsic logic all its own. If you really want to fight depression, you have to combat both the physical reactions of your brain and the emotional and spiritual ravages as well.


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#36446 - 06/28/02 10:05 AM Re: CURED??????????
Spider-man Offline
Member

Registered: 04/27/02
Posts: 57
Loc: NY
Quote:
Originally posted by Broken:
cure? cure what?

there is nothing wrong with us. Its the world that is screwed up, we are just trying to heal our wounds. You dont cure a broken bone or a cut. We arent infected, we are injured.
Breaks and cuts, like other injuries, are not a disease. They're injuries. And injuries leave scars. They heal, but sometimes, on cold damp mornings, they might come back to bug you some more.
I recently reached a different place from the one I've been operating in the last year (since I remembered). Its a much calmer place in one respect, but a lot more turbulent in others. I know that this is an ongoing thing and that up to the day I get planted, I'll still be working on it, working at understanding myself.
The acting out is still lurking in the background, but has definitely lost strength.

So no, there is no cure. But little by little, step by step, there is the possibility of getting better.


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#36447 - 06/28/02 10:12 AM Re: CURED??????????
Spider-man Offline
Member

Registered: 04/27/02
Posts: 57
Loc: NY
Quote:
Originally posted by michaelb:
I agree....depression is the answer..But how do you cure depression?????? Is depression curable????? i know it is treatable, but will I ever really feel normal????? How did you defeat DEPRESSION???????????? michael
Depression to me means literally that: that something is being depressed. Most of the time, I get depressed right after I've had an extreme bout of anger (I call them rage storms because thats what they feel like).
I have noticed I've been getting less depression lately, but I think thats because I'm more able to feel things that I was before. I'm letting feelings flow to the best of my ability.
I tried Zoloft. Knocked me for a loop. I couldn't function. Memory got shot (and it was in a big mess to begin with) to the point I couldn't remember what I'd done two seconds before, I'd forget how to do things I'd done a million times before. And this was months after I remembered. I switched to zoloft from st. johns wort and though zoloft mellowed me a bit, the side effects were too high a price for me.
Lets face it. I have enough problems with sex without taking a drug that vaguely lists 'sexual side effects' - without telling you what those side effects entail. Raging boner all day or a constant limp noodle? Enquiring minds want to know...


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#36448 - 06/28/02 10:32 PM Re: CURED??????????
orodo Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 03/15/02
Posts: 735
Loc: Imladris, The Safe Haven of Ar...
I consulted with a psychiatrist today who diagnosed me with PTSD, major depression and panic disorder, is taking me off effexor xr 150mg and wrote Zoloft for me. Even gave me free samples to get me going....I feel like I've been diagnosed with appendicitis and the doc is gonna give me an alka seltzer for the cramps... am I just treating the symptoms or really getting to the root of the problem. What is the root of the problem? Is it the abuse? The sexual acting out afterwards? The drinking? the drugs? The porn? This is so messed up. So does anyone know if zoloft makes one horny or what? Will it make me space out even more than i already do? I am anxious...about so many things. Where is the rewind button?

_________________________
It is better to be Dragon Master than Dragon Slayer. Some Dragons are meant to be mastered, others meant to be slain. Odin, Great Spirit, God, grant me the wisdom to know the difference. "May the Valar guide and bless you on your path under the sky"

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#36449 - 06/29/02 12:47 AM Re: CURED??????????
edwin garcia Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 02/12/02
Posts: 7
Loc: columbia sc
I WISH I HAD A REWIND BUTTON. I HAVENT FOUND CELEXA TO HAVE ANY AFFECT ON THE PENIS. BUT I KNOW IT IS HELPING ME COPE. I KEEP ASKING MY THERAPIST IF TODAY IS THE DAY THAT I CAN QUIT THE MEDS AND SHE SAYS ITS UP TO ME. AND I KNOW IM NOT READY, BUT I PRETEND TO DO WITH OUT IT. WHATEVER IT TAKES TO LEAD A "NORMAL" LIFE CANT BE ALL THAT BAD. THANKS FOR READING MY RAMBLING..


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#36450 - 06/29/02 01:48 PM Re: CURED??????????
MrDon Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 01/08/01
Posts: 957
Loc: Deltona, FL
Just a side note about Zoloft... I have taken that and it messed with my stomach pretty hard (I have a lot of nervous stomach problems on my own without zoloft). Make sure you start out on a low dose of zoloft (50mg) and then after a month, increase it if it needs to be increased. Also make sure you eat food and then take it. For me the effects of zoloft on my stomach did lessen to a manageable point, but the first couple of weeks it was a killer!

Just some things from my experience with zoloft

Don

_________________________
In order to journey to new worlds, we must first be willing to lose site of the shore.

The Mind Body Thoughts Blog
http://mindbodythoughts.blogspot.com/

Check out my relaxing piano music from the heart!
http://www.donshetterly.com

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#36451 - 06/29/02 03:54 PM Re: CURED??????????
bosishere Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/14/01
Posts: 161
Loc: nashville,tn,usa
hello to Edwin Garcia - Hurray to you and your use of celexa, because I have used it several times, in various strenths, and EACH time, it does affect me sexually - by dick cannot get hard!! On the plus side, it IS GOOD FOR DEPRESSION, so whch is better? be happy or a soft dick when one sees somebody one liks?? \:\( bosishere


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#36452 - 07/05/02 12:31 PM Re: CURED??????????
michaelb Offline
Member

Registered: 04/21/01
Posts: 211
Loc: cincinnati, ohio
DO YOU REALLY THINK DRUGS ARE THE ANSWER FOR DEPRESSION????????????? i was on celexa with very little success, then i was put on zoloft with i guess mixed success......i really do not notice alot of improvement, but when i quit taking it, i do notice a rapid descent in my mood.....my hour of depression turns into days....so i guess it helps.....i just re-started taking it a few days ago....we will see.....But i really do not see medication as a long term solution.....i think pills are a scapegoat and will not live taking pills all the time....i quit taking my heart pills several months ago and i will not be addicted to anti-depressants.....i will take them for a couple of months at my therapist's urging, but i will not live my life depending on any medications......i realize that this is my own way of hating myself by denying my body medications that will extend my life, but that is how i feel..... michael


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