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#363556 - 06/03/11 07:12 PM IT was not a CRIME
Still Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/16/07
Posts: 6607
Loc: FEMA Region 1
When it began, I was 7.5 and they were 12. To me they seemed like adults.

When it ended, I was 14 and they were 18. To me, they seemed like adults.

I've always heard about children involved in sexual experimentation and "normal this" and "normal that" regarding sexual discovery among children. This element of public "expertise" in this area is one of those factors that kept me doubting, shame-filled, confused and feeling foolish for being so messed-up over it all. I even had a T who spent far too much time fishing around that line of culpability for me. The self-doubt and confusion she raised still scrambles my mind today.

The District Atty who was kind enough to spend all the time I needed getting answers, placed me on-board a crashing plane. What they did to/with me was not a crime when it happened. I'll say it again in case you missed the prior sentence. What those older boys did to/with me was not a crime back then. It was not a crime....fuck! what do I do with that?

Then I realize that whatever the normals on earth call "normal child sexual behaviour," ought not cause bleeding. It ought not have caused me to beg for an end to the torment. It ought not have been torment. They ought not have needed to extort my compliance. I ought not have had to roll-up cotton rags to absorb blood or hand-wash underwear and dry it under my bed.

Then I hear phrases like "normal child sexual discovery" being mis-understood.

Then I have doubts.

Then I have uber-shame.

Then I have self loathing.

Then I remain messed up.

Then I remain a complete (as in COMPLETE) societal outcast.

I remain a space alien.

I seek anyone to define that "normal sexual discovery" they so freely default to when faced with situations like mine...cuz I'd really like to know if I'm supposed to be a space alien, or was Robbie just a fucked-up little kid that grew too old and interfered with too many "normals" lives.

It was not a CRIME. Then who the fk is Rob to complain? Who the fk is he to have PTSD and severe depression and Bi-polar disorder and DID?

It was not a CRIME. IT was not a crime. Even I can't comprehend that for him.

Keep your planet.

_________________________
Hell needs firewood too ya know!

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#363565 - 06/03/11 09:38 PM Re: IT was not a CRIME [Re: Still]
onlyakid Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 03/31/04
Posts: 1552
Loc: New Jersey
In the south in the 1700s, slavery wasn't illegal does that make it ok? In the mid 1900, segration, not illegal, doesn't make that right either. Child porn at one point was legal too. Basically just because it is legal doesn't make it right

_________________________
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"and i don't want the world to see me, cause i don't think that they'd understand"

"You don't know what love is...you just do as your told"

"My life has changed. What you take as a simple thing, is not so simple for me anymore"


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#363566 - 06/03/11 10:10 PM Re: IT was not a CRIME [Re: onlyakid]
Still Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/16/07
Posts: 6607
Loc: FEMA Region 1
Well, this was found a while back. BOY!! Does this ever clear-up this topic!

http://www.selfhelpmagazine.com/article/child_sexual_behavior

_________________________
Hell needs firewood too ya know!

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#363570 - 06/04/11 12:21 AM Re: IT was not a CRIME [Re: Still]
Shadow+Walker Offline


Registered: 04/16/09
Posts: 287
Loc: desolate foggy nights, USA
Robby,
What you experienced is now illegal and prosecutable today in my state (and many others) and the prosecutors wouldnt hesitate to charge them. To me that is an affirmation that what you endured really was WRONG.
Peace,
Shadow+Walker

_________________________
For God did not give us a spirit of timidity, but a spirit of power, love and self discipline. (St Paul, 2Timothy 1:7) NIV

Check out a cool song by a hot band..."Unbreakable" by Fireflight: official video at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pWRJAHaOrYg

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#363585 - 06/04/11 10:54 AM Re: IT was not a CRIME [Re: Shadow+Walker]
risingagain Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/09/10
Posts: 597
Loc: Vancouver, BC, Canada
Just because something is legal does not make it healthy. Something can be highly destructive, highly damaging, full of betrayal, and still be perfectly legal.

It's not your fault Robbie. The older boys should have known better.


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#363591 - 06/04/11 11:22 AM Re: IT was not a CRIME [Re: Still]
EGL Offline
Moderator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 06/19/04
Posts: 7821
Originally Posted By: Robbie Brown
Well, this was found a while back. BOY!! Does this ever clear-up this topic!

http://www.selfhelpmagazine.com/article/child_sexual_behavior


Rob, I think a section from that article is pretty clear:

Quote:
However, normative (or expected) sexual behaviors are usually not overtly sexual, are more exploratory and playful in nature, do not show a preoccupation with sexual interactions, and are not hostile, aggressive, or hurtful to self or others.


Obviously, that was not the case with your experience which would not be considered "normal" by any stretch of the imagination. Your T who thought otherwise was a dunce.

_________________________
Eddie

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#363593 - 06/04/11 12:03 PM Re: IT was not a CRIME [Re: EGL]
TJ jeff Offline

Moderator
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/07/04
Posts: 3391
Loc: Northern Wisconsin
Rob,

just as the others have said... IT should have been a CRIME!!!

that's a great article that you gave the link to - I'm going to have to re-read it a few times for it to sink in I think

Yes - I too struggle with what was done to me by my uncle because he was only about 12 when he started doing stuff to me (I look at a 12 y/o now and think he's just a kid)

I think the key thing to drive into our minds is that what was done was NOT normal sexual behavior for boys of their age to be engaging in

_________________________
Who will cry for the little boy? - I will... - Antwone Fisher

Abuse happens in silence/isolation - Recovery happens only when that silence/isolation is broken...

TJ's History

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#363594 - 06/04/11 12:22 PM Re: IT was not a CRIME [Re: EGL]
Still Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/16/07
Posts: 6607
Loc: FEMA Region 1
I understand what you guys are saying above. I think I'm hung-up on one step beyond the primary. That is, a 'society' allowed there to be no law protecting boys from rape. (it was specifically 'boys' that were omitted from the rape laws). In Massachusetts, at that time, rape of a boy was not possible and/or it was not even a conceivable act. So for any boy abused/raped, (who's not likely come forward anyway) would ony find a misdemeanor of 'simple assault' place on the attacker. Now, given the age of the older boys, they would have enjoyed the rules of evidence and procedure granted to all juveniles at that time. The end result would have been zip.

So was rape of boys invented in the 1980s (when the laws were created)? I've heard that CSA has been going on for quite a while within human-kind.

As you point out Eddy, it was an 'overstep of the normative.' When do child perps know when to not overstep? From my vantage-point, I think they don't.

You know guy...I don't get it at all. There's probably no logic to my feelings and position on this. Feelings and logic rarely meet dead-on. So I'm stuck standing on the 'feelings-side' with convenient selection of logic in support of my agruments.

I'm stuck standing here having been 'done' by others who were protected under the law. I stand here having been 'done' by the law.

So human nature is identified by the excellent article. Examples of over-steps are illustrated in the replies to the excellent article...or were they even over-steps...I don't know...but I'm shaking, I'm wiped-out, i'm separated from my kids and all I built. I have nothing left except my children's visits. Its interesting...I feel fully back where I was.

I'm sorry I'm not getting better. I'm not a good example here. My T says the 'shame,' 'guilt' and 'culpability' phases of examination are the toughest. I think I've met my match.

_________________________
Hell needs firewood too ya know!

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#363610 - 06/04/11 05:22 PM Re: IT was not a CRIME [Re: Still]
EGL Offline
Moderator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 06/19/04
Posts: 7821
Hi Rob,

I do understand what you're saying, it's like we lived during a unique time in history when there wasn't really any acknowledgment that CSA of boys even existed (the time it was occurring on us) and now when it's at least acknowledged and laws enacted to prosecute it. Although now at times it still seems like we're still "back there" in the attitudes and perceptions that people still have about CSA of boys. I know that there are times I feel the need to talk about things, but I don't do it because I know that there are people who will never "get it". To talk about the stuff I went through is like it's still considered off-limits, so I just sit and keep my mouth shut most days in my men's group. I guess there are "acceptable" issues to talk about, but my CSA is not one of them. It would make too many uncomfortable. It's like that line from the movie, "You can't handle the truth!"

And don't ever feel like you have to apologize for not getting better, Rob. Ever. That's old, crappy tapes playing in your head telling you that you don't deserve to get better, etc...you do. You deserve a life so much better than those bastards who put you through what you went through.

_________________________
Eddie

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#363624 - 06/05/11 12:09 AM Re: IT was not a CRIME [Re: EGL]
Still Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/16/07
Posts: 6607
Loc: FEMA Region 1
Originally Posted By: EGL
You deserve a life so much better than those bastards who put you through what you went through.


Eddy, I appreciate your vote of confidence and ideals for my equity of life. Unfortunately, society did not see it your way. You see, I've found the lead perp. I know where and how he lives. He has a house in "our" home town (init sweet? OUR home town). He has kids and even grand-kids. He has a rockstar job, much grander than I ever had (and lost). He has a grand house in that town...a house and town I could not afford. He has a summer house (not unlike what I had and lost) but his is on the ocean.

When I saw him at Logan Airport that one time, he was looking happy, healthy, confident and bold. I, on the other hand shrunk and froze right where I stood...too frozen to move for what seemed like 30 seconds.

It would be nice, Eddy...if I got what I deserve in comparrison to Dean. It would be nice for everyone to get what they deserve. However that just does not seem to happen on this planet. So many of us look forward to the next stop.

_________________________
Hell needs firewood too ya know!

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#363630 - 06/05/11 01:52 AM Re: IT was not a CRIME [Re: Still]
Napoleon Offline


Registered: 04/06/11
Posts: 166
Loc: Utah
What about a civil lawsuit?

My perp is poor, and like the old saying goes, you can't get blood out of a rock. Can't get the cops to do anything about it. I fell like all he has ever done is put me off. "I need to talk to the DA" and then twenty excuses why hasn't, or can't yet...

If he has a life like that: he may be willing to pay you just to keep you from telling everyone in town what he was like...

_________________________
“Your only limit within reason, is the one that you set up in your own mind.” Napoleon Hill, The Law of Success, 1925.

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#363641 - 06/05/11 10:20 AM Re: IT was not a CRIME [Re: Still]
Still Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/16/07
Posts: 6607
Loc: FEMA Region 1
That would be cool, but without a conviction, a civil judgement and/or proof, I would end-up sued: i.e. f**ked again. But...I've already forgiven them and wished them well. Its just the looking at the truth is rather harsh.

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#363646 - 06/05/11 02:26 PM Scope of Forgiveness [Re: Still]
Still Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/16/07
Posts: 6607
Loc: FEMA Region 1
I guess the question on the table now is : "do I forgive society, humanity and supposed civilization?"

How do we forgive humanity that has not ever, in all of its history, generated one single common rule or hinderense against CSA? Do we forgive our very own people and families for devouring us and turning away when the damage done is too ugly for their limitations?

How do we forgive societies that allow so many children to be considered a "sexual delicacy" for the rich and shameless?

How do any of us forgive civilizations for creating genocide, oppression and unspeakable crimes such as CSA. Do we forgive the civilized churches for cultivating abuse and covering it up with mechanized corruption reaching all levels of authority?

I forgave the 4 older boys whom are all older men now. That was MY prerogative and MY option as it was years of offense perpetuated upon ME. I forgave them without their requesting so. But I cannot find my way to forgiving the big-picture. I cannot forgive the inherently evil occupants of Earth. That's simply not within my authority to do so. God will cast a summary judgement upon Earth, and I'll step out of the way and watch. I am not without sin, but I am not OF this world, nor do I devour the souls of children.

I cannot forgive societies that demonize victims of CSA, or even marginalize those who seek justice or healing.

I remain open to input on this.

_________________________
Hell needs firewood too ya know!

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#363673 - 06/06/11 07:00 AM Re: Scope of Forgiveness [Re: Still]
tommyp72 Offline


Registered: 05/21/11
Posts: 12
Loc: Virginia
I typically shy away from specific references to matters of faith as there are so many views even within Christianity regarding heaven, hell, forgiveness, eternity, and the like. But I cannot leave this one alone. A long time ago when I was going through a remarkably difficult time, a woman who I did not know, gave my sister a beautiful painting of Michael, the arch angel. On the slate was a verse from Isaiah 54, "No weapon forged against you shall prosper...." The following verses point out that we have no reason to fear the weapons created by evil forces because it was God who made the evil forces and therefore they cannot have more power in our lives than God."It was I who created the blacksmith..." Yet even knowing this, forgiveness is tricky business. I won't pretend that I have a handle on it even coming from a faith tradition that has a its very foundation, forgiveness and reconciliation. I suppose if we are looking for the answer to whether it is reasonable for us to consider forgiving society and humanity in general we have to accept the teaching of the master of forgiveness, Jesus of Nazareth. Even after being subjected to humiliation, torture, and finally the cruelest sort of execution, his words about his enemies were, "Father forgive them, for the do not know what they do." I struggle with my life and hate that all my goings and doings are adversely effected by the actions of a man who decided that I was fair game for his twisted desires and needs when I was far too young to protect myself and even too young and vulnerable to allow myself to remember my five years in his control. Now as an adult with a family (second time around), I have to relive it all because "I am ready to handle it" but feel anything but ready. Do I forgive him? Myself? Humanity? In the words of Upanishads, "Thou art that." There is no separation. We, good, bad, indifferent, all come from the same source of life. So I work at my feeble attempts to understand the concept of forgiveness and wonder at the Christ who said "Forgive them..." I wish for you peace in your journey, Shalom, nothing missing, nothing broken.


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#363678 - 06/06/11 09:10 AM Re: IT was not a CRIME [Re: Still]
jls Offline


Registered: 03/06/09
Posts: 1142
Let's face it: What's lawful and what constitutes justice are two different things. I've often questioned whether what happened to me was a crime or not, since as other people have said in my jurisdiction, according to the laws at the time I was legally old enough to consent, although those laws have since changed. That said, the perpretrators can't be charged under the new laws since the abuse took place when they weren't yet in effect. Does that make what happened to me any less abusive? Obviously not. The fact that the new laws reflect changing attitudes about the sexual abuse of youth is a good thing so that's what I'm taking from it.

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Love is better than anger. Hope is better than fear. Optimism is better than despair. So let us be loving, hopeful and optimistic. And we’ll change the world.


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