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#36346 - 01/21/03 08:58 PM Dentists
MrDon Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 01/08/01
Posts: 957
Loc: Deltona, FL
I hate dentists... I hate have dental work done... did I mention that I hate dentists and dental work? A lot of this stems back to my abuse and some of those things I have identified and some of them I think remain hidden.

I do have a good dentist that I started seeing in Nov because I have neglected dental work for so many years. After several visits of getting fillings done, I still have two more to go. Of course I got to have a root canal through all of this which they have to do the mold and put the crown on... Can't ya tell I'm excited.

But every time I get out of the dentist, I am either full of a lot of anger and rage or feel very depressed. And that is after taking Xanax. Don't know what I would be like if I tried to go to the dentist without the Xanax... but I do know that I've passed out many times before trying to get into a dentist office.

I just really want this dental work to be done and over with but I've got another 4 visits yet.. If I wasn't scared of losing my damn job and being laid off, I would spread this out. However as long as I've got insurance, I want to get this stuff done.

Oh the joys of life... ah right now, I say screw life... of course I will most likely feel better by morning,,, but right now, I'm just in a pissy mood.

Don

_________________________
In order to journey to new worlds, we must first be willing to lose site of the shore.

The Mind Body Thoughts Blog
http://mindbodythoughts.blogspot.com/

Check out my relaxing piano music from the heart!
http://www.donshetterly.com

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#36347 - 01/21/03 10:03 PM Re: Dentists
Ken Singer, LCSW Offline
Moderator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/24/00
Posts: 5778
Loc: Lambertville, NJ USA
Don:
My guess is that some of the abuse you experienced was oral in nature. It's real common for survivors to have reactions to any intrusions around areas that were penetrated or touched abusively way back.

We've (MS board) talked about putting together a booklet for physicians and dentists about being more sensitive to survivors' issues around examination and touch. One of the suggestions we've heard a number of times is to talk with the dentist or physician about your abuse. Not in total detail, but something that says, "I had some bad experiences involving my mouth when I was a child. I get very uptight whenever someone puts anything in my mouth (anus, touches me in the genital area, etc.). I would really appreciate it if you can be sensitive about that and give me a sense of control over the situation."

The solution may be to get him to stop when you raise your hand or some other signal. That can give you a sense of having some control over a procedure. They learn to do that in dental school regarding pain management. Unfortunately, they don't know about doing that for abuse survivors.

Having a discussion with the dentist or physician about giving you a sense of control can go a long way in cutting off that sense of being at the mercy of the more powerful person. If the dentist or physician won't do it, find another who will. You are the consumer.

Any other ideas?
Ken


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#36348 - 01/21/03 11:16 PM Re: Dentists
MrDon Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 01/08/01
Posts: 957
Loc: Deltona, FL
Ken,
Thanks for the insight and response. Actually going to a dentist is easier than it was a few years ago but it isn't easy at all for me.

I think on my first visit the dentist asked me what my fear came from and I told him that I had some very rough things in my childhood that have created it. I didn't know him and so I didn't go any further. I will say he has been very good and gentle and patient with me. He has a very good chair-side manner about him which is helping.

Part of the reason all of this is taking so long is that I can only handle so much in a visit. He does realize this and so he only goes so far and then stops. We do have a method worked out that if at any time I need him to stop, I just raise my hand. He does continually remind to breathe through my nose and keep breathing and relaxing as these things I need to be reminded of.

I'm not sure if it will ever get any better than this. Hopefully but I just can't predict that. The thing that really bothers me now is the "anger" that I experience after a visit. It is pretty intense anger and I can't quite pinpoint where it comes from. Hopefully I can work with my therapist through some of this which may be some of the anxiety that I have.

I do know that Yoga and my massage classes as well as getting actual massages are helping me to relax more. I find it more easy now to focus on my breathing and let my breathing help relax me than I once could. Still not great in this area but it has definately improved.

Don

_________________________
In order to journey to new worlds, we must first be willing to lose site of the shore.

The Mind Body Thoughts Blog
http://mindbodythoughts.blogspot.com/

Check out my relaxing piano music from the heart!
http://www.donshetterly.com

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#36349 - 01/22/03 12:15 AM Re: Dentists
Wuamei Offline
Member

Registered: 08/19/02
Posts: 2700
Loc: The left turn I should have ta...
Quote:
Sorry for the double post. I tried to edit a word out and wound up with two. Anybody tell me how to do an edit?

Thanks,
Ken
Ken, left click the paper & pencil icon on the upper right of the post. This will take you to a copy of your post that you can edit by simply deleting or adding or changing whatever words you want. Then click the "make changes" (or something like that) button below the edit-copy, and your post should come back up, edited. I hope. \:\)

Victor

_________________________
"I can't stand pain. It hurts me."
--Daffy Duck

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#36350 - 01/22/03 07:58 PM Re: Dentists
blacken Offline
Chatroom Moderator
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 08/13/01
Posts: 1210
Loc: Northern Ohio
MrDon,
I HATE going to Dentists too. I have not been to one in Five years.
There are two clear reason for this...
1) SA
2) A couple of terrible dentist encounters.
The only Fricken thing going in my mouth besides food is my own toothbrush!
Blacken

_________________________
Everyone is a genius! If you were to judge a fish, by its ability to climb a tree,
it would think it was stupid all of it's life.
~Albert Einstein

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#36351 - 01/23/03 01:03 AM Re: Dentists
MrDon Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 01/08/01
Posts: 957
Loc: Deltona, FL
Blacken,
I know what you mean and in fact sometimes putting a toothbrush in my mouth is a big enough trigger in itself... that's about as hard for me as going to the dentist....

Don

_________________________
In order to journey to new worlds, we must first be willing to lose site of the shore.

The Mind Body Thoughts Blog
http://mindbodythoughts.blogspot.com/

Check out my relaxing piano music from the heart!
http://www.donshetterly.com

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#36352 - 01/23/03 06:52 PM Re: Dentists
Wuamei Offline
Member

Registered: 08/19/02
Posts: 2700
Loc: The left turn I should have ta...
Men, I'm unable to talk about this much except to say I relate to it, I've even posted about it, over in the Member forums, but it's just now really starting to hit me hard.

**********MAY TRIGGER, ORAL SEXUAL ABUSE*********
I don't know what happened, have no particular memories, but I do know that I've always had a bad gag reflex, dryness, trouble breathing, even a kind of panic, whenever a dentist puts something in my mouth, tho mostly only when it starts going down the throat. Now I think I may know why but I don't want to think about it...

I don't need anymore bad memories; then again, maybe I do, if I'm gonna deal with them & how they affect me...

Ouch!

I also know that I have always liked & had a strong desire for *ral s*x, which is almost always in my sexual fantasies & acting out, usually as a dominant factor.

Gotta stop...

*********TRIGGER WARNING ENDED******************

No wonder I keep putting off calling to reschedule my tooth cleaning...

Victor

_________________________
"I can't stand pain. It hurts me."
--Daffy Duck

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#36353 - 01/24/03 12:43 AM Re: Dentists
MrDon Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 01/08/01
Posts: 957
Loc: Deltona, FL
Victor
Hey you should have seen me a few years ago... I had to have a friend help me walk in the door of the dentist office after being on Xanax...

I still struggle with it and slowly I am reclaiming more of it....

But it didn't happen over night... and it didn't happen all at once.

It took time

Don

_________________________
In order to journey to new worlds, we must first be willing to lose site of the shore.

The Mind Body Thoughts Blog
http://mindbodythoughts.blogspot.com/

Check out my relaxing piano music from the heart!
http://www.donshetterly.com

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#36354 - 01/24/03 01:33 AM Re: Dentists
Les_Angry Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/06/02
Posts: 195
I was so paranoid about being put under by the dentist in high school, I had a root canal and had my wisdom teeth taken out while I was awake. They both refused to do there work without it, but I insisted and got my way, I had to argue with the root canal guy for like a half an hour I remember listening to Howard Stern on the radio, and he was talking about how his mother made him get dental work with out anesthetic at all . I remember thinking when I had those procedures done, that local doesn't really work much at all.


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#36355 - 01/24/03 02:06 AM Re: Dentists
Chey-Wy Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 09/01/02
Posts: 241
Loc: Cheyenne, WY
Don,

I am very fortunate to have a very good and understanding dentist. I went to school with his "significant other" so that made it a lot easier to go the first time I went to see him.

My problem is that because of the S A I grind my teeth. I have worn them down by half. Mark (my dentist) asked me what was going on and I finally told him the truth about the S A. Actually, he was very cool about it. Since that time I have told most of my doctors. I just tell them if I start to freak ... to bear with me. They all have been very understanding. I did have to see a Ear, nose, and throat specialist the other day. He was using his stethascope and started to unbutton my shirt. I freaked, but I quickly caugh myself. I told him that I was s survivor of S A and he said ... Oh sorry. I can listen without you unbuttoning your shirt.

I realize that i for many of us it is hard to tell a complete stranger about the S A .... but I am finding it easier and easier to tell a new medical professional about the S A. I find that the earlier I tell them the easier it is for my treatment.

Also, today I had to see my regulat physician. He knows about the S A. I told him that I have not had a complete physical since my S A and that I don't know what I will do when he has to do one. Also, I am 46 years old. I get a regular PSA. They always come back "normal" but I know I should go in and have the " recomended followup" done. I just know that I am going to freak when I have to have it done. I was almost in tears today just telling my doctor that I know I should have it done. I know no one likes the " rubber golve" exam .... but for me it has specail meaning. It was how my Perp "tricked" me into removing my clothing. He was a PhD. and convinced me that since he was a Dr. ( Ph.D gives you that Priviledge) that is was O K for him to "examine" me.

I like what The Dean said about the possibility of publishing a handbook for us to give to our doctors. Not only would it help with the awarkwardness of telling your doctor .... but possiblily it could give the doctor some questions to ask to help them to treat us and make us more comfortable.

Good luck with your remaining treatments

John

_________________________
From the Song MOUNTAINS by Lonestar.

Yeah, the good Lord gave us mountains,
So we could learn how to climb

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#36356 - 01/24/03 09:41 AM Re: Dentists
Wuamei Offline
Member

Registered: 08/19/02
Posts: 2700
Loc: The left turn I should have ta...
Don:

I've had a lot of dental work done in my life, always struggled a lot with it, but never really known why (or maybe deep down I did) until now.

I'm finally facing a part of what was done to me in SA I think I really sensed but was in denial about; maybe I just wasn't ready for it. So I guess I am now???...

It actually as far as I know at this point goes back "only" to memories of abuse events I've already recalled, not new ones. Still, I know it's gonna take time.

But I'm gonna schedule a cleaning--and tell my dentist about my SA...

Thinking about you as you continue to have this dental work done, Don.

Victor

_________________________
"I can't stand pain. It hurts me."
--Daffy Duck

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#36357 - 01/24/03 09:51 AM Re: Dentists
Wuamei Offline
Member

Registered: 08/19/02
Posts: 2700
Loc: The left turn I should have ta...
John:

Do you have TMJ ("lockjaw"), where your jaw cracks & pops, and may sometimes lock up? I do, and my dentist 8 years ago said this was becuz I grind my teeth at night (tho I didn't know why then), and you seem to be doing some major grinding.

Maybe you could talk to your dentist about this, if you haven't already. Mine had me fitted with a mouth splint (looks kinda like a mouthpiece for sports) which is molded to the way your teeth & jaws are supposed to line up. Reshapes them & helps stop the grinding. Wore mine for 8 years, all except the first month or so only at night when I sleep. Worked great, except lately my facial structure must have changed and I could need another one; I was told I might.

However right now I'm trying another option, one you possibly could go straight to. My chiropractor
is doing some regular jaw & facial work--which does involve him sticking his fingers in my mouth & working the jaw muscles from the inside. It does seem to be helping after just a couple times.

So far this doesn't seem to be bothering me. Still I will probably tell him about my SA soon; he already knows I was abused in general terms, & I'm sure he suspects anyway.

Hope some of these rambling thots help.

Victor

_________________________
"I can't stand pain. It hurts me."
--Daffy Duck

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#36358 - 01/25/03 01:04 PM Re: Dentists
MrDon Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 01/08/01
Posts: 957
Loc: Deltona, FL
I keep finding that a common trait among many survivors is TMJ. I'm not sure exactly why that is and I wish someone out there in the field of medical research would look into it.

Actually one instructor at school talked about some massage work that works on the muscles from the inside of your mouth. In the next couple of weeks, we will be learning the muscles of the jaw, and chewing and swallowing. This may be very enlightening for me I hope as I keep finding the TMJ in many people.

I remember when I first started seeing the dentist a few years ago. All of my front teeth had either broken or were cracked. I wouldn't smile or open my mount much to talk because I looked so bad and it was so embarrassing. Now I have a partial plate and it looks very good (althought the partial plate was full of triggers for me... oh man that was rough accepting that). But for me to get in the dentist for the first time and even come close to letting them work on me, I did several things. I will list these in hopes that it might spark someone's imagination and help relieve some of the anxiety.

1) I got a pre>
_________________________
In order to journey to new worlds, we must first be willing to lose site of the shore.

The Mind Body Thoughts Blog
http://mindbodythoughts.blogspot.com/

Check out my relaxing piano music from the heart!
http://www.donshetterly.com

Top
#36359 - 01/25/03 09:31 PM Re: Dentists
Wuamei Offline
Member

Registered: 08/19/02
Posts: 2700
Loc: The left turn I should have ta...
Don thanks a lot! That is all really great advice for any of us who might be going (or needing to go) to the dentist. The poem is cool! And "I Won't Back Down" is one of my very favorite survivor songs!

Victor

_________________________
"I can't stand pain. It hurts me."
--Daffy Duck

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#36360 - 01/26/03 02:46 AM Re: Dentists
Les_Angry Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/06/02
Posts: 195
I just wanted to mention that I had (have) tmj too. I discovered it at the dentist when I could keep my mouth open for more than a minute at a time when I was getting a cleaning. My wife confirmed that I grind my teath while I sleep. I was supposed to get fitted for one of those football mouthpeice things, but I just let it go. It must be getting better because now I can keep my mouth open much longer during cleanings.

Mo Healing


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#36361 - 01/26/03 02:48 AM Re: Dentists
Chey-Wy Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 09/01/02
Posts: 241
Loc: Cheyenne, WY
Quote:
Do you have TMJ ("lockjaw"), where your jaw cracks & pops, and may sometimes lock up? I do, and my dentist 8 years ago said this was becuz I grind my teeth at night (tho I didn't know why then), and you seem to be doing some major grinding.

Maybe you could talk to your dentist about this, if you haven't already. Mine had me fitted with a mouth splint (looks kinda like a mouthpiece for sports) which is molded to the way your teeth & jaws are supposed to line up. Reshapes them & helps stop the grinding. Wore mine for 8 years, all except the first month or so only at night when I sleep. Worked great, except lately my facial structure must have changed and I could need another one; I was told I might.
Victor

Yes I do have T M S ..... but I thinkit is of the whole body. Everything has been snapping, crackling, and popping.

Also, I was going to say NOT to the grinding. I had a roommate in college that was very intoxicated one night and was trying to pick up a young lady. His come on was I want to grind with you . Sorry, my mind was in the gutter when I was reading that.

Seriously. Yes I do have T M J and Yes my dentist did fit me with a splint. The only problem is that I grind me teeth so badly that I have broken one splint. They repaired it but within a very short time I had ground it away to nothing. I did just get fitted with another new splint $200.00. They aren't cheep.

_________________________
From the Song MOUNTAINS by Lonestar.

Yeah, the good Lord gave us mountains,
So we could learn how to climb

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#36362 - 01/26/03 09:50 AM Re: Dentists
Wuamei Offline
Member

Registered: 08/19/02
Posts: 2700
Loc: The left turn I should have ta...
Chey:

You broke a splint? Man you do some serious tooth-grinding!

At least you seem to have a pretty good rate on your splints. Mine, eight years ago, was a lot more than that, with insurance.

Still $200 is a lot of money, any way you stack it. Hope this one works better for you.

Victor

_________________________
"I can't stand pain. It hurts me."
--Daffy Duck

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#36363 - 01/26/03 11:25 AM Re: Dentists
Ken Singer, LCSW Offline
Moderator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/24/00
Posts: 5778
Loc: Lambertville, NJ USA
Would you guys be interested in writing a brochure about male victimization and anxiety about dental procedures?

We could develop something for the American Dental Association (as well as the dental associations in other countries) sent out through MaleSurvivor as a means of educating dentists (either through dental schools and/or to the members) as part of a national mailing by the associations.

We could also do something with physicians, particularly for general practioners, urologists, proctologists, etc.

This would be a good grass roots project (maybe help some who can't afford membership in MS and earn membership), but ultimately, it would help survivors out there who either don't know the connection or don't know what to say to the dentist.

Ken


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#36364 - 01/26/03 12:30 PM Re: Dentists
MrDon Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 01/08/01
Posts: 957
Loc: Deltona, FL
I would be open to providing input on this and much of the basic things that I have done to get through dental problems I briefly outlined. I'm not sure if I have enough hours to do the entire thing because of working full time and being in a very intense school program right now. But I would offer my input in whatever way I could.

This is an excellent idea and I'm glad you thought of it...

It might even be a topic for an upcoming newsletter article I write for another organization since it is pretty close to home for me and many others.

Don

_________________________
In order to journey to new worlds, we must first be willing to lose site of the shore.

The Mind Body Thoughts Blog
http://mindbodythoughts.blogspot.com/

Check out my relaxing piano music from the heart!
http://www.donshetterly.com

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#36365 - 01/26/03 03:10 PM Re: Dentists
guy43 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/17/02
Posts: 450
Loc: Minnesota
ken:

great idea on creating a brochure! i don't have much in the way of input to offer, i have dentist issues too. i am willing to help in whatever way i could, maybe with the "production of the final document" dressing up, etc.

hey posters: some really good ideas on how to deal with dentists!

mumblings to self... a health care retreat weekend with dentists and various types of doctors in a clinic setting, combined with survivor mental health sessions to cope with same.


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#36366 - 01/26/03 03:49 PM Re: Dentists
Wuamei Offline
Member

Registered: 08/19/02
Posts: 2700
Loc: The left turn I should have ta...
Ken:

Yes I would be willing to help out with writing a brochure for dentists if I'm needed, tho it sounds like others have actually worked at dealing with this more than I. However, I have had a lot of different kinds of dental work.

I might be able to help with brochures for GPs, pdocs, T's, chronic pain specialists, gastro-intestinal specialists, neurologists, massage therapists, chiropractors, maybe others, as well.

Gotta be a lot of men out there that could make some major contributions to brochures like this...

Victor

_________________________
"I can't stand pain. It hurts me."
--Daffy Duck

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#36367 - 01/26/03 06:56 PM Re: Dentists
Lloydy Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 04/17/02
Posts: 7071
Loc: England Shropshire
At the time of my abuse, early teens, I just stopped cleaning my teeth. I'd have stopped washing as well but we were forced into showers under the supervision of teachers. Most of whom had an unhealthy interest in watching boys shower - but that's another topic.

So my teeth rotted very rapidly and at about 14 or 15 yo I was marched of to a dentist called Dr Fortune. He was a well known butcher and even today thirty years on his name is still mentioned every time someone local has a bad dentist experience.

He removed all my top and about half my bottom teeth in one go with local anisthetic. My mother had to carry me out of the surgery ( surgery ?? ) down two flights of stairs and into the car parked a long way away.
This whole experience traumatised me greatly, and although I had to return for my false teeth I never returned to a dentist again until I was about 25.
Those teeth no longer fitted at all, but I was too scared to go to anyone.

My present dentist I've had since then and he treats me very well, the fear is something I told him about many years ago and he works accordingly.
Because of this I haven't needed to tell him about any SA problems, although I do think about them.

Having been treated so badly by the first dentist at the time of my SA I think that experience compounded the SA problems.

perhaps I should have tried the technique outlined in the old joke -
A man goes into a dentist, lies back in the chair and reaches out to gently grab the dentists testicles. "We're not going to hurt each other here are we ?" he says.

Dave

_________________________
Go confidently in the direction of your dreams! Live the life you've imagined. As you simplify your life, the laws of the universe will be simpler.
Henry David Thoreau

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