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#363257 - 05/29/11 10:24 PM Where to go?
loved1forever Offline


Registered: 05/28/11
Posts: 15
I am so relieved to have found this site! Some of the posts in the Friends and Family board…I could have written myself. My husband is a csa survivor and we’ve been somewhat together for the last 20 years. It’s a complicated story but we initially lived together, moved out to a house in the country …everything was perfect. I knew nothing of the csa at that time. Suddenly, in ’98 he withdrew, shut down emotionally, workaholic, evidence of being unfaithful to me, and caught him in many lies. He finally agreed to see a counsellor (again, I didn’t know about the csa). In the end, in 2000, he wrote me a letter, left it on the kitchen counter. The letter was quite touching, said he was shattering on the inside, knew he was the source of my unhappiness, he needed to figure things out, was quitting his job (he actually was making plans without me knowing to accept a job clear across the country). In the letter he said he hoped once he figured himself out we could be together…referred to me as an “angel” God sent him. He took a small room in the city an hour away for a month until his move out West. I was devastated. Leading up to that time I could not understand his behavior and the apparent sabotage. It made no sense to me. His sister was shocked and suddenly divulged to me that she suspected he had been a victim of csa in their family's church. The perp was convicted of many offences that occurred in another church years after he had abused my husband, and I later realized the perp had been released from jail right around the time my husband began his first episode in ’98. My husband never came right out and said it but pretty much confirmed that he had been abused. Over many conversations, I told him that I was there for him and would do anything I could. I was at work the day the moving truck came to our home in the country to collect my husband’s belongings to move them clear across the country away from me. That day, at work, I got a phone call from my sister that paramedics were working to revive my father who had just suffered a heart attack. He died that day. My husband came out to meet me and was very supportive, he took part in all the funeral arrangements…but it was weird, he was leaving. It was a double grief that just about killed me.

Alone, I arranged to sell our house in the country, in a hurry, because I could not bear living there and couldn't handle the expense. I couldn’t handle the driving into the city to work. I was experiencing panic attacks from the stress…and my driving was scary. So we sold quickly, suffered on the price, and ended up having to just get rid of a lot of things we had purchased…car, equipment, household stuff.

I moved to an apartment in the city, he visited me at Christmas and celebrated with my family… then he lied to me about a matter and I basically told him that just because he suffered abuse it did not entitle him to abuse me, our relationship, and our friendship. I didn’t hear from him until 9 months later on my birthday when he left me a phone message saying happy birthday. I called him back and left a message but did not get a response. Very odd.

The following year, we reconnected and he eventually persuaded me to move out to be with him. I was scared. And I asked questions first. I truly love him. I asked if he had sought therapy. He said hiking in the mountains was his therapy and that he was fine. So I left my family and friends and moved clear across the country to be with him. It was heart-breaking for me but I obviously knew it was something I needed to do. We rebuilt on the other coast, bought a condo, I went back to school (with his suggestion and urging) and we were doing well until another episode came…he became detached, unemotional, robotic….(a lot of the de>

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#363260 - 05/29/11 11:06 PM Re: Where to go? [Re: loved1forever]
SpideySense Offline


Registered: 05/24/11
Posts: 25
Loc: USA
@loved
I feel your pain. My husband won't acknowledge much either. It's hard on me because I want to nurture him and all I get is a wall. I AM taking some comfort on educating myself on this though.
Feel free to PM me. I'm feeling kinda lost too.
Until now, I never knew "what" it was....I always thought it was me.

_________________________
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fMvWo6KxKeQ

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#363365 - 05/31/11 07:04 PM Re: Where to go? [Re: SpideySense]
OurLastChance Offline


Registered: 05/02/11
Posts: 32
Loc: USA
L1F,
I'm too new to this to provide any recommendations but wanted to let you know your message was heard and here are my hugs to tide you over until someone with experience and wise words comes along.
(((((Loved1Forever)))))


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#363438 - 06/02/11 03:04 AM Re: Where to go? [Re: OurLastChance]
loved1forever Offline


Registered: 05/28/11
Posts: 15
((((OLC))))

Thanks so much...this is a very hard day for me and I really appreciate the understanding and support


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#363639 - 06/05/11 08:38 AM Re: Where to go? [Re: loved1forever]
whome Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/07/11
Posts: 1734
Loc: Johannesburg South Africa
Hi Loved1forever

Recovery is a choice that he must make himself. You on the other hand must decided whether you want to wait for this decision.
My recommendation to you would be similar to what I have told others. You need to start caring for yourself first. You need to end the co-dependance and build yourself first. WHEN he decides to heal then you will be in a position of strength to help him.

It also seems to me that he wants to hold on to you. He makes such life changing decisions, such as moving clear across the country, and doesn't even consult you, yet he wont leave you alone to pick up, heal and move on. So it seems to me that you are still his safe haven. This is all fine and well IF he wants to recover and heal. But being a safe haven can drain you and ruin you if he doesn't change. He will then just use you to enable his old behaviors, and bad patterns, and this, as you have experienced in the past, can be painful. I also remember encouraging my wife to study further, this again in my case was manipulation. If she studied it would take another two or three years. This would be time that the spot light would be off me, because she would hopefully be busy. Beware of a survivor bearing gifts. I heard a great saying the other day. "Hurt people, Hurt people". Trust me this is very very true.

SO. You need to be strong for yourself first. You need to learn not to listen to the lies and Manipulation that are prevalent in CSA victims. You also need to learn, what could possibly be lies and manipulation. Once this has happened then you can start encouraging him to confront his demons. You can then be strong and help him recover. My wife took the same approach as families of drug addicts would treat there addicted children. Here we call it "Tough Love". She used this program to deal with my CSA, Porn addiction and Alcoholism. When she finally plucked up the courage to toss my lying ass out the door, I decided that I didn't want to be alone, and that the truth of the matter was that She was the only person who cared for me in the first place. So in order to move back there were conditions.
1 Seek help.
2 No more lies
3 Live an open and honest life.Eg. She has access to every aspect of my life. banks, Emails, S MS's,

If I honestly want to recover and truly love her then this is a small sacrifice, don't you think?

I hope that this gives you insight into what you are in for, remember this is my story, don't discount it if you feel it doesn't apply but rather look for similarities to your life. Remember survivors are actually caring people that want true love, but don't trust anyone to give it to them.

GOD SPEED
Martin
Welcome to Pm.

_________________________
Matrix Men South Africa
Survivors Supporting Each other
Matrix Men Blog

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#363666 - 06/05/11 11:16 PM Re: Where to go? [Re: whome]
loved1forever Offline


Registered: 05/28/11
Posts: 15
Hi Whome

Thank you so much for your response and insight! This is one of the reasons I love this site. I did see some similarities and flashes of our own situation. In the case of encouraging studies...he did, but once I started he began acting out which was hard for me at an intense time...I couldn't ignore the acting out and disrespect on many occasions. He would suppose to be home for dinner at 7, allowing for late time, I would call him at 7:45 and ask what was up...I had dinner going, he'd say he would be wrapped up in 10 minutes and home by 8:15 but wouldn't show up until 10:15, with obvious signs of having had a few cocktails...this was frequent around that time. So I would call him on it. He would counter with: well you're going to school and you have a roof over your head. I tried so many times to talk to get him to open up, because I knew the behavior wasn't him nor is the disrespect. It's like someone takes over and I'm scratching my head thinking "what happened", "what has taken possession of him?"

"Beware of a survivor bearing gifts" really struck me as did "Hurt people, Hurt people"...I have absolutely no doubt in my mind that survivors are caring people that want true love. I would not have stuck through this over many years and a separation if I didn't believe that. But you are absolutely right, and thank you, I do need to think of myself or I will just crumble and disappear over time.

Thanks again, your insight is extremely valuable!






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#365736 - 07/10/11 12:14 AM Re: Where to go? [Re: loved1forever]
loved1forever Offline


Registered: 05/28/11
Posts: 15
Well, after the Round Two and 20 years overall of trying to resolve this absence of intimacy and his now complete lack of emotional availability, I feel completely betrayed. I have put myself out there again and, unfortunately, to my detriment, have put him first because I truly believed he would somehow see it…see the light…see what his behaviour was doing to him and us…like he would have some sort of epiphany.

I have let his behaviour damage my self-esteem, my career and my livelihood. I am so ashamed of myself, for being in this position once again. That I let this happen again, because I truly believed in him and that love would prevail over all.

My H has declared he is putting the house up for sale (I am joint owner) and declared I must move back across the country (where my family is and where his is too.) He has completely clammed up, even worse than ever. The callousness and inability or willingness to see and understand what I’ve been going through (and our joint venture in that) are what cut me to the core.

It’s not even a “let’s talk about this rationally and decide together what to do about this” it’s suddenly “I’m putting the house up for sale next week.” This was the same the last time he split.

He convinced me to buy a house in the country. I voiced my opinions about being away from everything and the troubles associated with that. But it was good for him at the time, I could see it, he loved being in the country and working the land, growing a garden, fixing the house, chopping wood and hanging out.

It was great until the CSA demon reared its ugly head…then he wasn’t around so much, work trips got to be more frequent, and I was alone (luckily then family wasn’t too far away in the city, but living in the country alone is very isolating regardless.)

So now, here I am again, same person, different city, incredibly far from my family who has been such an incredible source of support… and yes…I feel so completely ashamed that I am here now, once again, and I have been dealt the same blow….from the same person.

The coldness felt from him is the same robot-like behaviour that I have felt before, but it now has an incredibly distinctive sting….I have sent him a link to this site a few weeks ago and I printed material for him to read, but for all I know he’s thrown it in the garbage. I love him and so want him to heal and I want to heal through this because it has certainly taken its toll on me.

I do know that I have to think of myself above all…that is clear, and very hard when you love someone so much and can’t understand why they are fighting you and your love for them at every opportunity. What’s made this Round Two really hard is that now I am so far away from my real support source…. and the mountains are so much harder to climb from here. If I had been doing this from this angle and position the first time around, it would be a breeze compared to this. Someone help me please, because I am at a complete loss and feel totally devastated.



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#365739 - 07/10/11 01:02 AM Re: Where to go? [Re: loved1forever]
Julia Offline


Registered: 11/05/08
Posts: 59
Loved1forever,

Call your family (your support) and make arrangements to go home to them until you can get back on your feet. You are in a no win situation. He probably isn't in a place to even begin seeing how very much he is hurting you. He simply hasen't the tools it requires to be a consistant husband, lover or even friend to you. Twenty years is long enough time to be running your head into the same brick wall.

Perhaps you feel your husband will come around and realize how useless your relationship is without getting help but the truth is, he may never get help.

I am so sorry you are hurting. I am sorry your husband is hurting. But I have been in the same never ending Virginia Square Dance.... you know the one you learn in elementary school.... "all join hands and circle left.... your going the wrong way". The same dance going nowhere and feeling nothing but hurt, resentment, shame, frustration.... it kills the soul.

My advice is go home. Be close to the people who will support and love you, you will find strength in that. I know it is not easy to leave someone you have loved for so long but he simply can't give you what you need. At least not until he's ready to heal himself and that doesn't sound like it will be anytime soon.
Take care of yourself.

Love,
Julia


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#365916 - 07/13/11 02:57 PM Re: Where to go? [Re: Julia]
loved1forever Offline


Registered: 05/28/11
Posts: 15
Thanks Julia for your advice and support. I do know I have to do something because as it stands this is going nowhere. I don't know if he truly means he wants to sell or if it's a test. Regardless, I can't take this total lack of respect. I've stayed this long because I love him and he knows that, but what I've been getting in return is neglect and emotional abuse sprinkled with some kindness and attention whenever he senses I'm at the breaking point. The cost and complexities of selling the house here (this would be the second time we've quickly sold a home together do to his "running") and me starting over again on the other coast are overwhelming to think about right now.

The way he went about it the first time had me teetering on the verge of a nervous breakdown and he pissed off a lot of family and friends in the process. When I agreed to come out here for Round 2, he made a lot of promises that everything would be good this time... and my family rallied around him, so I'm having a really hard time with him not seeming to be be willing to get help for this, for him, for us. He's been living with this for well over 40 years. We know we're the love of each others life...that silent bond. When all is good, it is spectacular.

So, if we do sell and I move back now, there will be an acknowledgement that we will never see or speak to each other again. I couldn't do it. If he gets help and heals after I leave, it will be too late. That's what deeply hurts. No matter how much I still loved him I could not allow myself to do a Round 3.

My sister has just offered to fly me back on points asap for a few weeks at least for her holidays which start this weekend. I think that's just what I need right now to start. To get my head straight and feel the love and respect of family.

Thanks again,
L1F


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#365921 - 07/13/11 03:57 PM Re: Where to go? [Re: loved1forever]
aloved1 Offline


Registered: 02/22/11
Posts: 65
Loc: Texas
loved1forever,

Our situations sound very similar (regarding our survivors) and I know how you feel about not allowing a Round 3. With that said, I don't think you are ready to make that permanent decision quite yet. I could be wrong, but I sense this. With me, I still have things at the house, so going to stay with my mom was what I needed to do, but I'm not certain this is the end of the chapter. With you, I know it's more difficult, as you say your family is far away. So, yes! Do take your sister up on her offer and make this trip for yourself. I believe time apart gives both sides time to reflect and being around loved ones is exactly what you need.

L1F, it amazes me how much I sense the love, loyalty, dedication and support from the partners here. It breaks my heart that our survivors aren't healthy enough to receive it. I wish there was a magic wand for them all. They are so deserving of these things, I wish they can realize that. You sound like an amazing person...keep your head up. The good things you are deserving of will come.

Hugs,
Vicki


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#365980 - 07/14/11 03:25 PM Re: Where to go? [Re: aloved1]
loved1forever Offline


Registered: 05/28/11
Posts: 15
Thanks Vicki. I can't tell you how much it means to be able to come to this site for feedback and support from people essentially going through the same issues. Although it's painful right now, there's a certain comfort in knowing you're not going crazy, and that there's an explanation for the behavior and actions you've been subjected to. Before I found this site I was coming down really hard on myself and that was not healthy in the least.

I think I will take the time to go home for a visit. It's too hard being here right now and I do need think straight through this situation without the day-to-day heaviness of it all.

I was thinking of buying Mike Lew's book Victim No Longer and leaving it here for him to hopefully read while I'm gone. Can anyone tell me their thoughts on whether that would be helpful or not?

Once I do come back it will be decision time and I'm hoping he would take the opportunity of being alone here to possibly look at this issue instead of running away once again. The first time was devastating enough, and a second time means this story has ended for good.


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#365982 - 07/14/11 05:37 PM Re: Where to go? [Re: loved1forever]
whome Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/07/11
Posts: 1734
Loc: Johannesburg South Africa
Hi Loved one

Mikes book is great and it could do no harm to buy it for the H, If he reads it great if he doesn't read it not so, but it might plant a seed in his mind.
Nothing ventured nothing gained.

Have a good rest and heal well

Martin

_________________________
Matrix Men South Africa
Survivors Supporting Each other
Matrix Men Blog

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#366036 - 07/15/11 06:44 PM Re: Where to go? [Re: whome]
loved1forever Offline


Registered: 05/28/11
Posts: 15
Hi Whome,

Thanks for the feedback and good wishes. He just might read it if I leave it for him. I know he wants to heal but is having trouble making that leap. I can sense how scared he is and it tears me up in side. He has not sought therapy yet and is having difficulty making that step. Is Mike Lew's book suitable to read if you have not begun therapy?

Thanks for your help,
L1F


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#366059 - 07/16/11 04:25 AM Re: Where to go? [Re: loved1forever]
katie1205 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 07/03/11
Posts: 48
While I feel bad for him, CSA or no CSA, he doesn't get to abuse you. EVER. I left a marriage of 16 years (relationship of 19 total) because my husband literally hit me once. As dysfunctional and screwed up and abusive as my family, etc. was my mother for some reason always ground it into us girls that you don't let men abuse you for ANY reason and if they hit you once, they'll do it again. So I literally went to family law the next day and filed. I know not the same situation. At times, Adam will rage at me about one of his brothers or something and that I talked to them or something. And though he towers a foot over me and weighs 100 pounds more than me, I don't tolerate it. I tell him he has a choice, he can go sit it the other room or he can take his bicycle and go for a really long (like 2 hour ride) but nobody gets to abuse me verbally or otherwise. I think you need therapy to learn those kinds of boundaries and that you are worthy and worthwhile and beautiful as a human being and deserve to be treated with dignity and respect no matter what. CSA or no CSA, you don't get to cheat on your wife, etc.

Much love,

Katie


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#366098 - 07/16/11 10:05 PM Re: Where to go? [Re: katie1205]
loved1forever Offline


Registered: 05/28/11
Posts: 15
Katie, I fully agree, CSA does not give anyone the right to abuse others. I have made that very clear to him. He has never physically abused me, and until now, I don’t think he has been capable of grasping exactly how his actions deeply hurt me emotionally. This is a man that rarely ever so much as raises his voice. This is not a nasty ogre. He’s an extremely intelligent, funny, generous, sensitive person who was victimized and sexually abused as a child and essentially robbed of the tools necessary to live a happy balanced life. Because of this, the harm he causes is more along the lines of putting up walls, numbing out, severe lack of openness and communication, secrecy, workaholism, and actions that subconsciously attempt to sabotage a relationship that threatens to break down the wall (self-imposed prison) that he has carefully erected over a lifetime in order to protect himself.

These behaviors, from what I understand, are classic lasting effects of CSA in males. I have called him on his behavior every single time and have vocalized my boundaries very clearly. That's precisely why we are where we are now. Ultimately if he isn't ready or refuses to see a T in order to heal and acquire the necessary tools, sadly, we are done for good.

I have known this man for over 20 years and we only got back together the second time because he assured me that he was healed (little did I know then that it is simply not possible to heal without help from a T).

Yes, there is no doubt his behavior this second time around is causing extreme pain, more so because I’m feeling stranded on the West Coast, this time far from family. But I am very clear on boundaries and I have drawn them and voiced them and called him on each and every one loud and clear. I do not have a problem in the boundary department.

But, I also believe in forgiveness, compassion and healing. My parents, who went through their own troubles raising a family of seven kids, instilled this in me along with pride and always standing up for what you believe in, especially yourself. There were many, many difficulties in their relationship, and along the way, they could have called it quits a number of times through the alcoholism to the dysfunction. But the bottom line was there was love and devotion which saw them through their very happy latter years where they were still the spark in each others' eye... and absolutely loved and adored by their grown children.

Thanks for your input. I hope Adam and you heal well.

Take care,
L1F


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