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#364449 - 06/18/11 10:19 AM Re: SSA Article by Joseph Nicolosi, Ph.D. [Re: Anthony39]
prisonerID Offline
Greeter Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/17/08
Posts: 1247
Loc: Oklahoma
Tony,

I find your words not only intelligent and thoughtful but spot on as well.

Ah, "who benefits?" is a key thought that should be applied to this and to many things in life. That includes theories and therapies as well.


Daryl

_________________________
Broad statements often miss their true mark.

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#364682 - 06/21/11 02:20 AM Re: SSA Article by Joseph Nicolosi, Ph.D. [Re: Driftwood]
mogigo Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 04/24/07
Posts: 1331
Loc: Colorado
Yes///amazing response. as a 'sexual' man, completely in love...and YES. happy. Why go further???? why is my happiness a '????' for your's?.

The only question "is why does anyone else's life, have anything to do with mine'. If this is a question you have to ask....I don't envy you, because I've been there. But I AM happy.

Stay strong
Mog...Mike

_________________________
Thriving

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#364895 - 06/25/11 03:36 AM Re: SSA Article by Joseph Nicolosi, Ph.D. [Re: Ever-fixed Mark]
mogigo Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 04/24/07
Posts: 1331
Loc: Colorado
really mark?? Everyone else's experience has to co-incide with your experience???? Cause No one had a different experience than you had.

_________________________
Thriving

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#364896 - 06/25/11 03:49 AM Re: SSA Article by Joseph Nicolosi, Ph.D. [Re: mogigo]
mogigo Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 04/24/07
Posts: 1331
Loc: Colorado
Oh, and wondering what your old name on MS was Mark.....go away if that's what you need. stop harming people

_________________________
Thriving

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#364905 - 06/25/11 10:19 AM Re: SSA Article by Joseph Nicolosi, Ph.D. [Re: mogigo]
Ever-fixed Mark Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 01/02/10
Posts: 729
Loc: United States
Mogigo,

You are upset, but it's not clear to me what about so it's difficult for me to address.

Everyone is entitled to their own experience, but we're not entitled to our own facts. Statements about our own lives are irrefutable, but generalizing our own experiences or our opinions to everyone else as though they are fact is not.

I am not relating my first person experience in this thread so much as I am my perception of the credible research done in this field as a counterpoint to the misinformation offered by "reparative" therapists. If you have other data from research to share that puts forward your point of view, I'd be happy to look at it.

Your allegations that I'm "hurting people" and have changed my identity are vague. If you have any concerns, please address them to myself in PM and/or a moderator.

-efm

_________________________

Everybody here's got a story to tell
Everybody's been through their own hell
There's nothing too special about getting hurt
Getting over it, that takes the work

- "Duck and Cover" by Glen Phillips

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#364964 - 06/26/11 06:08 PM Re: SSA Article by Joseph Nicolosi, Ph.D. [Re: Ever-fixed Mark]
EdfromNYC Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/18/10
Posts: 233
Loc: New York City
The self-righteousness of the men who are adamantly against those who deal with unwanted SSA is helpful to no one. I have been a sufferer of SSA and I was sexually molested. I am basically healed of my SSA after having acted out with men in my teens and 20's. I thought I was gay. I started having fantasies about women in my 20's. I am heterosexual yet I was attracted to men. I am not now. I've read Nicolosi as well as other authors. I'm part of a secular posting group like this for men dealing with unwanted SSA. (Thank god we don't have to deal with gay rights zealots who are blind to anyone else's pain but their own.) I've gone to gay therapists and hetero therapists and now have gotten a lot of the help I need.

I am sick of having to be quiet so that gay men can rule the day with their point of view. Many gay men react so poorly if anyone talks about unwanted SSA because it raises questions they don't want to ask of themselves. That's the only reason it would inflame such passion. Oh, that, and wanting desperately to hold onto the identity of being a victim at any cost and not allowing for another voice to be heard that contradicts them. Its automatically hate to contradict or to deal with one's sexuality that doesn't move one towards coming out as a gay man. Its all because its threatening to gay men because they don't want to question their behavior/orientation because its a very tough issue and support is lacking if one realizes he might in fact be heterosexually oriented.

Ever fixed Mark, you love to analyze from afar. I've lived it and my experience is nothing like your analysis. I used to analyze it like you, with a level of disdain and looking for empirical evidence. Even when someone simply says to you "it worked for me" is that evidence enough? What would be evidence enough?

You're not the arbiter of anyone else's sex life, you've never lived in anyone else's shoes and you don't know everything even if you could read every bit of research. You are intolerant and you shouldn't be posting on here in that manner. Its highly offensive and you make this place unsafe. That's sad and wrong.

_________________________
And more, much more, the heart may feel,
Than the pen may write or the lip reveal.
Winthrop Mackworth Praed

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#364965 - 06/26/11 06:17 PM Re: SSA Article by Joseph Nicolosi, Ph.D. [Re: Ever-fixed Mark]
EdfromNYC Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/18/10
Posts: 233
Loc: New York City
I think Nicolosi is brilliant and dead on and I have never read anything of his that I disagree with. I believe it is dangerous for men who are not ready for to do the real work that it requires. I believe the people who pull it apart and don't get it are threatened by it and will say it hurts people based on scant evidence in order to dismiss it.

I experience things; you read studies. I used to believe I was always the smartest guy in the room like you. Now, I'm just becoming more of a regular guy because I've done this work on my SSA and on my sexual abuse. I am coming closer to just learning to be one of the guys based on all of the work I've done. Its so sad and lonely to be defensively detatched from other men.



Edited by EdfromNYC (06/26/11 06:19 PM)
_________________________
And more, much more, the heart may feel,
Than the pen may write or the lip reveal.
Winthrop Mackworth Praed

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#364986 - 06/26/11 09:58 PM Re: SSA Article by Joseph Nicolosi, Ph.D. [Re: EdfromNYC]
pufferfish Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/26/08
Posts: 6875
Loc: USA
Nicolosi's ideas are a lot like those advocated in books on fostering masculinity in boys. I wrote a post on it yesterday. Nobody questioned the post in that context.

http://www.malesurvivor.org/board/ubbthr...4882#Post364882

Allen


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#364990 - 06/26/11 10:37 PM Re: SSA Article by Joseph Nicolosi, Ph.D. [Re: pufferfish]
Ever-fixed Mark Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 01/02/10
Posts: 729
Loc: United States
Hey EdfromNYC,

I suggest you read the entire thread including the parts where I reject the idea that there is nothing worth looking at in "reorientation therapy" for straight men suffering SSA (that would be the part where some gay brothers called me names).

The literature and first person accounts talk about the harm that can be done to gay men (who have an organic attraction to the same sex), but I hold open the door for straight men who have SSA imposed upon them by sexual abuse by pointing at a study by Lee Beckstead, PhD who talks about the needs of the client ruling the treatment, and not the ideology of the practitioner. There are first person accounts from gay survivors who have experienced the negative side of "reparative therapy" in this thread and I find them compelling. If you have a first person account you wish to share, please do so.

I'm not willing to take "reorientation therapy" off the table for straight guys because I don't want straight guys to take gay affirming therapy off the table for gay guys. At the end of the day, the client needs the treatment that supports their goals.

It's curious to me that I'm the gay guy on your side (refusing to dismiss "reorientation therapy" outright) and you're unhappy with me. At most I'm guilty of trying to clear some space for everyone to get what they need to heal, gay or straight. I want all non-ideological options on the table. Period. Read the whole thread and then we can talk more. Cheers.

-efm

_________________________

Everybody here's got a story to tell
Everybody's been through their own hell
There's nothing too special about getting hurt
Getting over it, that takes the work

- "Duck and Cover" by Glen Phillips

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#365007 - 06/27/11 03:35 AM Re: SSA Article by Joseph Nicolosi, Ph.D. [Re: Ever-fixed Mark]
1lifenow Offline


Registered: 03/07/11
Posts: 412
Loc: west coast
Aren't we all just trying to find love.

This is such a tough subject because sometimes boys that would have been straight were abused and sometimes boys that would have been gay. Depending when and how the abuse occurred, it affects the psyche of each group differently. But ultimately everyones experience is unique.

I've included a tv skit from the mid 80's. Sort of sums it up, not that most guys even the gay ones sound like him, but so much fuss about a few extra S's.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=8aeWdXK6iLY

Speaking for myself, the bigger issues are trust, honesty, intimacy and being able to care for someone who cares about you. I understand the confusion, but considering what we have ALL been through, the reason for anger escapes me.

_________________________
The need for love lies at the very foundation of human existence. Dalai Lama

WoR Barrie 2011

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