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#363951 - 06/10/11 10:53 AM Re: SSA Article by Joseph Nicolosi, Ph.D. [Re: Ever-fixed Mark]
Ever-fixed Mark Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 01/02/10
Posts: 725
Loc: United States
I just stumbled upon this paper titled "IMPLICATIONS OF THE STEREOTYPING AND MODIFICATION OF SEX ROLE" written in 1977 expressing concerns about the research and treatment conducted by Rekers on Kirk Murphy:

Quote:
In their recent article, Rekers and Lovaas (1974) appear to be not only accepting but also supporting sex-role stereotyping, thereby failing to contribute to the solution of a larger social problem. Although they admit that social and parental pressure led them to conduct sex-role therapy, their work raises the question of the responsibility for the nature of the therapy.

The article goes on to say:

Quote:
The final reason for treatment was that the boy's parents were concerned. If a therapist takes only this point into consideration, then the therapist has become the parents' agent, rather than the child's, or society's. Can the therapist justify that short-sighted a role? What are the consequences for the field, and for society, if that were to become common practice?

It is difficult for a therapist to be fully aware of all the issues involved when changing behaviors defined not by the person whose behavior is in question, but by other agents, such as parents or courts. This is especially true when treatment is not done by request of the person being treated. In such situations, it may be important and prudent for the therapist to seek out other people who may be more aware of the various issues involved. In this instance, the therapists could have consulted with women and men of the feminist movement, spokespersons for lesbian and homosexual organizations, representatives of AABT positions concerning homosexuality, children's rights advocates, and others. These people might have shown the therapists other sides of sex-role typing as a social process.

I think this gets back to the point I've made before where a course of treatment directed by factors other than the self-expressed needs of the patient themselves (theology, ideology, fear, discomfort, and shame) or without a holistic examination of all factors and options is rarely in the service of the patient's best interests.

-efm

_________________________

Everybody here's got a story to tell
Everybody's been through their own hell
There's nothing too special about getting hurt
Getting over it, that takes the work

- "Duck and Cover" by Glen Phillips

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#364021 - 06/12/11 03:02 AM Re: SSA Article by Joseph Nicolosi, Ph.D. [Re: Ever-fixed Mark]
mogigo Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 04/24/07
Posts: 1331
Loc: Colorado
Just....yuck. I have unwanted OSA. We LET them fuck us all up.

_________________________
Thriving

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#364277 - 06/15/11 10:49 PM Re: SSA Article by Joseph Nicolosi, Ph.D. [Re: mogigo]
thefutureorbust Offline


Registered: 04/24/11
Posts: 171
Loc: NC
well for myself I had a double whammy, I was sexually abused by my father by age 5 AND my father was emotionally withdrawn and my mother was excessively obsessed with me, over protective, dominat etc, I suffer from unwanted SSA, I have never acted out with men in my life but Have been with many women sexually and emotionally, but SSA causes me anxiety and upsets me badly and makes me feel less of a man and I became shut down to talk to women. When I feel in control and as if I OWN my masculinity I can talk to any girl and flirt. But why is Dr Nic is completly out of control by saying SSA and homosexuality is caused generated by unmet childhood needs...Why is that such a horrible thing to say? He never shames any of his clients or stuffs god down thier throats, he even tells them if they want to act out while in therapy fine, be be aware of your emotions and what needs your trying to fullfill. SSA is about unmet needs, you throw sexual abuse into the mix especially by your FATHER and your going to get very messed up wiring as a kid.

_________________________
"What does not kill me makes me stronger"

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#364283 - 06/16/11 02:25 AM Re: SSA Article by Joseph Nicolosi, Ph.D. [Re: thefutureorbust]
Ever-fixed Mark Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 01/02/10
Posts: 725
Loc: United States
Hey Freshwound,

I'm really interested to see the citations and studies that you believe support "unmet childhood needs" as the source of same-sex attraction and that Nicolosi never "stuffs god down thier (sic) throats".

I'm frankly curious why SSA is about unmet needs and OSA isn't. I remember feeling an emotional attachment to other boys (a crush) before my abuse and before my father passed away. How does that square with your hypothesis?

-efm

_________________________

Everybody here's got a story to tell
Everybody's been through their own hell
There's nothing too special about getting hurt
Getting over it, that takes the work

- "Duck and Cover" by Glen Phillips

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#364303 - 06/16/11 08:09 AM Re: SSA Article by Joseph Nicolosi, Ph.D. [Re: Ever-fixed Mark]
thefutureorbust Offline


Registered: 04/24/11
Posts: 171
Loc: NC
wasnt trying to offend you man. Just looking for answers because my SSA isnt wanted. I like women. But with everything I read on Nicolosi, he never mentioned god. He said if someone comes to him saying they want to do this because of their faith that it wont work. People have changed using his methods. I have never been with a man in my life outside of abuse so for me there is nothing to change except unwanted SSA which is a result of never really bonding with my father outside of him abusing me. Wasn't trying to piss you off but I don't believe anyone is born gay or born with ssa thats my opinion.

_________________________
"What does not kill me makes me stronger"

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#364310 - 06/16/11 09:09 AM Re: SSA Article by Joseph Nicolosi, Ph.D. [Re: thefutureorbust]
Ever-fixed Mark Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 01/02/10
Posts: 725
Loc: United States
No offense taken, freshwound. Broad brush hypotheses about the cause of SSA, especially those that seem to lump together the organic attraction that gay men feel with potential sexual imprinting coming from abuse experienced by straight men, always make me want to know the evidence or research that supports it so I can evaluate it critically. Did you get a chance to read this entire thread and the references it points to?

Myself and others have assembled a fair amount of information including direct quotes from Nicolosi and first person accounts from his patients that show the religious and ideological genesis and focus of his work, regardless of how he now attempts to package it to potential clients.

Credible research supporting the efficacy for Nicolosi's treatment is very thin. I linked earlier to a research study by Lee Beckstead, PhD that talks about the outcomes for a group of clients who underwent "reparative therapy" and the different ideologies at play in the options for treatment. It's well worth a read, in my opinion, to get a feel for this area of therapy.

Nicolosi's therapy is dangerous and destructive for gay men, but I don't rule out that, removed from it's ideological roots and in the hands of non-ideological clinician, it may be of help to straight men grappling with the effects of sexual imprinting and abuse. This thread is long, but take some time to read it all and the references it cites to get a more complete picture of Nicolosi, his motivations, his therapeutic approach, and the outcomes it produces.

-efm

_________________________

Everybody here's got a story to tell
Everybody's been through their own hell
There's nothing too special about getting hurt
Getting over it, that takes the work

- "Duck and Cover" by Glen Phillips

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#364342 - 06/16/11 06:21 PM Re: SSA Article by Joseph Nicolosi, Ph.D. [Re: Ever-fixed Mark]
Driftwood Offline


Registered: 05/27/11
Posts: 86
Loc: Colorado
My two cents for what it's worth:

I just read through this whole thread and what I find amazing is, despite the bubbling emotions under the surface, how basically civil everyone is. There seem to be two separate ideas being addressed, and I suspect it must be especially tough on the straight guys with unwanted SSA, who might be feeling lost in the shuffle. Imagine being straight and having to endure those feelings and all the confusion it brings as you’re trying to put your life back together after abuse. Imagine looking everywhere for someone or something that might be able to help. Imagine thinking you’ve finally found it in Dr. Nicolosi’s therapy, feeling a glimmer of hope, and then having everything shot to hell in this thread...

I can understand the disappointment felt by some of those straight men. They deserve to have hope for healing. They deserve good, solid, healthy therapies to help them deal with unwanted SSA.

And yet, if Dr. Nicolosi’s therapies are potentially damaging, guys looking for healing deserve to know that too. It would seem from efm’s research that Nicolosi’s elevation of his own agenda over varying clients’ needs is dishonest. Certainly, it’s damaging for gay people.

And it’s probably good for straight men to understand the anger gay men feel when any subject connected to reparative therapy comes up. It’s unbelievable, the torture some people are subjected to. Michael Bussee, one of the former leaders of Exodus (a reparative therapy organization), writes about one young man who “took a razor blade to his genitals, slashed himself repeatedly, and then poured drain-cleaner on the wounds--because after months of celibacy he had a ‘fall’.” (“Statement of Apology by Former Exodus Leaders”) To my straight brothers out there, please understand the level of emotion the subject causes for us.

For efm to provide clear scholarly research in such a calm way is both generous and admirable, even if it may not be the answer originally hoped for.


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#364363 - 06/16/11 11:03 PM Re: SSA Article by Joseph Nicolosi, Ph.D. [Re: Driftwood]
prisonerID Offline
Greeter Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/17/08
Posts: 1247
Loc: Oklahoma
Driftwood,

All I can add is "well said".


Daryl

_________________________
Broad statements often miss their true mark.

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#364393 - 06/17/11 01:33 PM Re: SSA Article by Joseph Nicolosi, Ph.D. [Re: prisonerID]
Anthony39 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/15/07
Posts: 345
Loc: Montreal, Canada
I would like to add to what is being said in this thread:

I came to this site in order to come to terms with my CSA. I am a "straight" male and I use that term loosely because as time goes by that word has become less and less significant in my mind. I have had and still do have issue with my SSA or attraction to males whatever we want to call it. Is it due to the abuse or not, I don't know for sure , i may never know.
I don't believe that sexual orientation is the most important issue survivors face. In my opinion intimacy and all the emotions that were suppressed because of the abuse are far more important.
I would imagine that most of the people who struggle with their sexuality, struggle not because of who they are but because of external pressures, family, friends, society. They may come to believe that there is something wrong with them.
My personal experience is taking me somewhere i never thought i could. I am slowly letting go of labels and really look i what i want and how i feel. I'll tell you something. I started endulging my SSA or attraction fantasies, and you know what, it kind of broke the spell for me. It is still there, it's part of me but it no longer obsesses my mind and i can focus on what I really want: real intimacy with real people, emotions, laughter, crying, sharing my thoughts, how I feel. Male or female is irrelevant. Maybe one day it won't matter at all. We have a chance to transcend the labels and social barriers, we are in a unique position to be able to go for the essence of being human, not many people have that vision of the world. So I'm not fighting it, it's counterproductive for my healing.
An orgasm lasts but a few seconds, you gotta fill the rest of the 24hours.

_________________________
Look up and not down; look forward and not back; look out and not in; and lend a hand.
E. E. Hale


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eM213aMKTHg

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#364394 - 06/17/11 01:40 PM Re: SSA Article by Joseph Nicolosi, Ph.D. [Re: Anthony39]
Anthony39 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/15/07
Posts: 345
Loc: Montreal, Canada
P.S. I forgot:

Sometimes I wonder what the motivation is for those so called "scientific researchers". What is the point of the study? to what end?

_________________________
Look up and not down; look forward and not back; look out and not in; and lend a hand.
E. E. Hale


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eM213aMKTHg

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