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#359796 - 04/15/11 03:41 PM Is SSA "stronger" than normal sex urges?
TheBobcatAgain Offline
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MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/13/10
Posts: 507
Loc: AZ, U.S.A.
I've been wondering...could Same Sex Attraction urges be more powerful than "normal" sex urges?

The question came to my mind because male survivors usually give in to SSA, knowing they don't want it - therefore, the SSA urge must be deeply powerful (particularly when it breaks up a loving marriage).

I can think of only 3 urges to have normal sex: 1) procreation; 2) pleasure; 3) strengthening a relationship.

I've heard several reasons why men give in to SSA; I can't think of all of them at present, but I believe Mike Lew (author of "Victims No Longer") suggested that one reason is in an effort to relive the abuse, perhaps with the unconscious idea of "rewriting" the outcome if the sex is not as abusive or even nonabusive.

Therefore, I think the major urge to give in to SSA is to fulfill a NEED (need for attention, affection, acceptance, etc.) which probably explains why some survivors returned to their abusers to be abused again and again.

This question should probably be asked of Dr. Kort, but I heard he was having technical difficulties. Dr. Kort, is there any way to "measure" sexual urges? To measure SSA against "normal" sexual urges? If this is virgin (no pun intended) territory, perhaps a measurement could be devised, and an award-winning paper be written? Who knows? smile

I appreciate any comments you guys would like to make. Thanks. smile

Your loving brother, as always,

Bobcat

_________________________
You don't have to be perfect to be wonderful.

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#359809 - 04/15/11 05:45 PM Re: Is SSA "stronger" than normal sex urges? [Re: TheBobcatAgain]
wayne9 Offline
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MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/14/08
Posts: 161
Loc: alabama
Bobcat. Don't know if these would help or if it even matters. And you may know more about this than me but I tell it anyway. My T has shown me pictures of brain scans on CSA victims. There are passageways in our brains that chemical flow through when we are get sexually aroused. Those passageways in the brain of the abuse victim are several times larger than those in the pictures of a non-victims brain. Could this be the reason that we give into ssa more than normal sexual desires. Just a thought......and I have plenty that mostly mean nothing......LOL

Tim


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#359811 - 04/15/11 05:47 PM Re: Is SSA "stronger" than normal sex urges? [Re: TheBobcatAgain]
westchesterguy Offline
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MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/13/09
Posts: 421
Loc: Westchester County NY
Originally Posted By: TheBobcatAgain
I've been wondering...could Same Sex Attraction urges be more powerful than "normal" sex urges?


i wonder how much of the power comes simply from that attraction being taboo, forbidden?

also, i imagine everyone has their own definition of what takes place between two guys... but, if we just go with a very basic "vanilla" de>
_________________________
Jeff

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#359817 - 04/15/11 06:35 PM Re: Is SSA "stronger" than normal sex urges? [Re: westchesterguy]
TheBobcatAgain Offline
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Registered: 02/13/10
Posts: 507
Loc: AZ, U.S.A.
Good points, guys. Thanks. smile

_________________________
You don't have to be perfect to be wonderful.

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#359826 - 04/15/11 08:33 PM Re: Is SSA "stronger" than normal sex urges? [Re: TheBobcatAgain]
Napoleon Offline


Registered: 04/06/11
Posts: 166
Loc: Utah
At first I mis-read your question, so I am updating my response.

I have long held the belief that SSA is re-enforced. The stimulated prostate causes a chain reaction that creates an increased release of dopamine. This is why for a long time SAA was classified as an addiction.

Will Dopamine create stronger connections in the mind? Defiantly.

Watch "What the Bleep went down the rabbit hole."



Edited by Napoleon (04/15/11 08:41 PM)
_________________________
“Your only limit within reason, is the one that you set up in your own mind.” Napoleon Hill, The Law of Success, 1925.

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#359864 - 04/16/11 12:20 PM Re: Is SSA "stronger" than normal sex urges? [Re: Napoleon]
risingagain Offline
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MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/09/10
Posts: 595
Loc: Vancouver, BC, Canada
uhh

dopamine is released in HUGE quantities by all mammals as they approach sexual situations.

it's not a gay thing man


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#359923 - 04/16/11 06:59 PM Re: Is SSA "stronger" than normal sex urges? [Re: risingagain]
Logan Offline
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MaleSurvivor

Registered: 04/05/03
Posts: 1205
Loc: NY
My personal opinion in this matter, as a survivor that has dealt with and admittedly acted upon a few times SSA urges. Is that for normal Non-CSA people, the their maybe an urge, but because there has never been they have never been in such an experience with some one of the same same the taboo is too great to over come.

In my instances with acting out sexual with an other male, the threshold of the taboo was non-existent because my boundaries had already been trespassed and there for the normal amount of things holding me back in such a situation, like the shame of it, or thinking about and imaginary line that once crossed couldn't be uncrossed did not exist, that line had been crossed long ago by my abusers.

So the normal parameters that would make me less likely to act out in that way were much less prevalent than some one that had not had the experiences that I had in childhood and therefore more likely for me engage in that type of activity.

I never once enjoyed any of the encounters that I had with men, I think I was trying to recreate something or regain some control or maybe find the acceptance that I once felt--But in NEVER worked out that way, at least not for me.

Just my two cents on the issue.

Take care guys,
Logan

_________________________
"Terrible thing to live in Fear"-Shawshank Redemption
WOR Alumnus Hope Springs 2009
"Quite a thing to live in fear, this is what is means to be a slave"
-Blade Runner

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#359924 - 04/16/11 07:02 PM Re: Is SSA "stronger" than normal sex urges? [Re: Logan]
risingagain Offline
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MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/09/10
Posts: 595
Loc: Vancouver, BC, Canada
The important thing here is to learn what is healthy FOR YOU! Sexuality is not simple.

I try to approach it with an inquisitive, curious mind. I take things slowly and listen to my body to see where impulses are coming from.

I don't believe any of us can successfully create a blanket statement that rings true for everyone. SSA is present in many forms in our society, some healthy, some not so healthy. I respect and honor your journey around it.


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#359927 - 04/16/11 07:15 PM Re: Is SSA "stronger" than normal sex urges? [Re: risingagain]
risingagain Offline
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Registered: 11/09/10
Posts: 595
Loc: Vancouver, BC, Canada
To me part of the issue here is the definition of what is 'normal'.

What does normal mean to you?

Does normal mean healthy?

Does normal mean functional?

Does normal mean what the bible says?

Does normal mean what your parents did?

What does normal mean?

Where do we learn what is normal?

What is truly healthy for us?

Where does that come from?

All the best brothers. I wish you well.


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#359928 - 04/16/11 07:18 PM Re: Is SSA "stronger" than normal sex urges? [Re: risingagain]
risingagain Offline
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Registered: 11/09/10
Posts: 595
Loc: Vancouver, BC, Canada
from a religious point of view i believe

God gave each of us a compass
it helps us to beat in tune with the rhythm of all life
it's called a heart.

Now what happens when a church interprets some parts of the bible a certain way
And says that's the word of God
And my heart tells me something different?

Who to believe?

What is normal?


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#359929 - 04/16/11 07:20 PM Re: Is SSA "stronger" than normal sex urges? [Re: risingagain]
risingagain Offline
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Registered: 11/09/10
Posts: 595
Loc: Vancouver, BC, Canada
God also gave each of us a mind
with which to be inquisitive

Therefore, I use it!
I ask questions!

smile


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#359930 - 04/16/11 08:12 PM Re: Is SSA "stronger" than normal sex urges? [Re: risingagain]
1islandboy Offline
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Registered: 06/23/08
Posts: 859
Loc: washington
For me the answer in many ways would be yes...

Sure there is the clinical answer something...something...fear turned to orgasm thingy...

Beyond my sexual orientation before it all started...(which I am not exactly sure of)...

Survivorwise....I like to think of it something akin to erotic terror...

so I see a form of excitement...(amongst other things)...imprinted.

What to do with that is another question...



Vetran of Psychic Wars (Tarot)

island







_________________________
Rise above the storm and you will find the sunshine ~ M.F. Fernandez

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#359934 - 04/16/11 08:47 PM Re: Is SSA "stronger" than normal sex urges? [Re: 1islandboy]
risingagain Offline
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Registered: 11/09/10
Posts: 595
Loc: Vancouver, BC, Canada
hmm

erotic terror

i'm curious what do you feel when you are in your SSA and acting on it?


do you have any emotional attraction / desire to form a bond or relationship with a man?


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#359944 - 04/16/11 10:46 PM Re: Is SSA "stronger" than normal sex urges? [Re: risingagain]
1islandboy Offline
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Registered: 06/23/08
Posts: 859
Loc: washington
My reply was more about the "urges" and less about "acting out".

At the present moment I am in a commited relationship...(acting out is just not an option).

It is possible that someday I might have an answer...(through recovery I have found that futuretripping ~or~ backtracking tends to make me feel rather psychotic).

So...just for today...I am o.k. without having all the answers.


Bananafishbones (The Cure)

island

_________________________
Rise above the storm and you will find the sunshine ~ M.F. Fernandez

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#359962 - 04/17/11 01:42 AM Re: Is SSA "stronger" than normal sex urges? [Re: 1islandboy]
risingagain Offline
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Registered: 11/09/10
Posts: 595
Loc: Vancouver, BC, Canada
Hm. It's interesting, the words 'acting out'. To me it implies something that is done out of addiction or coping or compensating. It implies woundedness.

I have sat long with that question for myself, is my desire to be with a man physically, emotionally, romantically a result of woundeness or dysfunction in my family?

For me I believe the answer is no. For others it may be yes.


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#360023 - 04/17/11 07:17 PM Re: Is SSA "stronger" than normal sex urges? [Re: risingagain]
Anthony39 Offline
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MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/15/07
Posts: 345
Loc: Montreal, Canada
I can only speak of my own experience back in the days. I understand the urges well . I am guessing that a lot of my acting out had to do in part with the fact that I needed some of my real feelings to come out. I don't mean the SSA only. I think I spent so much time role playing in front of others that at some point my brain needed to get in synch with my body. All done under the cover of hiding. To my friends and family I appeared normal and put together (somewhat). I felt ALONE, and could never tell or feel or be myself. I could be at a party or at work and I would get on "hunting mode". A powerful urge to find a GUY. It felt powerful while it lasted, there was a sense of well being and my normal life was like somebody elses, not mine. It was a strange sensation. That urge was never satisfied, always disapointing. A big let down after an adrenaline surge. Slowly you go back to your regular self and just shake your head about what you just did.There could never be intimacy, not in that state of mind. I felt like I was in an altered state, primal.

_________________________
Look up and not down; look forward and not back; look out and not in; and lend a hand.
E. E. Hale


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eM213aMKTHg

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#360035 - 04/17/11 09:46 PM Re: Is SSA "stronger" than normal sex urges? [Re: Anthony39]
risingagain Offline
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MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/09/10
Posts: 595
Loc: Vancouver, BC, Canada
Hmm.. Wow your experience of SSA is very different than mine.

Cool.


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#360050 - 04/17/11 11:49 PM Re: Is SSA "stronger" than normal sex urges? [Re: Anthony39]
risingagain Offline
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Registered: 11/09/10
Posts: 595
Loc: Vancouver, BC, Canada
Originally Posted By: Anthony39
I could be at a party or at work and I would get on "hunting mode". A powerful urge to find a GIRL. It felt powerful while it lasted, there was a sense of well being and my normal life was like somebody elses, not mine. It was a strange sensation. That urge was never satisfied, always disapointing. A big let down after an adrenaline surge. Slowly you go back to your regular self and just shake your head about what you just did.There could never be intimacy, not in that state of mind. I felt like I was in an altered state, primal.


I changed the word GUY to GIRL in the quote.
It's interesting because it makes sense regardless of gender. When a guy looks at another person like a piece of meat, like you said the hunter part of our brain gets activated... and I might get a kick out of it, get a high, but in the end it is just 'ashes in the mouth' (as my Muslim friend says). I come down and feel more empty and disappointed.

That is not just true for meaningless gay hookups, it's equally true for meaningless straight hookups!!! Just look at young 20-somethings at bars on Saturday night man... Look at the heartache!

I want to be careful how I define 'acting out'. I don't define it in the context of gender, but in the context of how I was looking at the person. Was I seeing a person, or was I seeing an object to satisfy me?

I believe that the most Godly relationships are the ones where two people see the God in each other, where they treat the other as holy, and where they are each aware of their primal urges, and choose to save them for a time when true mutual love has developed.

I'm no expert there, having been single for 12 years and practically celibate for most of that time too.


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#360052 - 04/18/11 12:22 AM Re: Is SSA "stronger" than normal sex urges? [Re: risingagain]
risingagain Offline
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MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/09/10
Posts: 595
Loc: Vancouver, BC, Canada
In the past couple years I reached a point where I saw a lot of good in so called conservative religious teachings, and was able to forgive the bad. So I began to embrace friends from those religions.

One day I received a message on Facebook from a guy. He asked me if I wanted to make a friend. He said he found me on Facebook through a 'gay interest group search' and sent me a message saying he was a devout Mormon who just wanted to make more gay friends because he believed in loving not judging. We went for coffee and gradually opened up to each other.

I didn't want to be sexual with him, and I didn't think that's what he wanted. He's married and a devout Mormon!

Well, three days after I got back from the WoR, my friend asked how I was, and I told him that I had just confronted my dad. He offered, rather graciously I thought, to give me a massage.

I thought about it and decided it might do me good to relax and ease up. So I went to his house and lay down. He started massaging my back. But I started to feel a bit queasy when he moved farther and farther down, and started massaging my ass. Then he switched to my leg, and began concentrating and stroking closer and closer to my balls and penis, and eventually he was basically touching them and brushing up against them vigorously. I don't know why but I was frozen like a deer in the headlights. I felt terrified to say something, felt so scared and small.

I finally told him that it was too close for comfort, and he stopped. I confronted him after and he basically denied anything and called it my issues. I went home feeling so betrayed, that in that vulnerable space of having confronted my dad about his behavior, my friend had offered me a massage which I thought was coming from his heart, but it turned out it was just coming from his own unexpressed and unresolved sexual need.

The point is, his belief system was keeping him in Shame, and causing him to act out in totally inappropriate ways. If he could just accept his feelings, doors would open for him. Maybe he's bi, maybe he's gay, maybe he has unwanted SSA. But he will never know, and will continue to act destructively, until he deals with the shame and the secrecy, instead of finding secret moments with gay 'friends'.

Believe it or not, that's not the first time that happened. I had another friend, also a Mormon. He was my best friend for 2 years. He helped me organize my tackle football club. We played two seasons together as defensive backs. He was a great guy in a lot of ways, a family man with 4 daughters and we helped each other a lot.

I had no sexual feelings towards him- not even my type of guy... and our relationship was more like most guy-guy relationships- razzing each other, good natured one-upmanship and trying to get the other guy to perform at his best on the field... we never had any physical affection.

Our team go to the championships and we won the semi-finals in an intense game. We were all sweating hard and feeling camaraderie and just a sense of having won in battle with each other. I was kinda surprised when he came up to me and gave me a BIG hug. He had never hugged me before-- naw, I'm not that kinda guy he'd say.

So I let him hug me. All of a sudden, he leans in to my face for a kiss. My neck tenses, I'm not comfortable, and we bump noses awkwardly. Then he says, "easy now, don't get excited Jan". I kinda laughed inside but brushed it off.

Well sure enough he pulls a HUGE classic Mormon trip on me by projecting all his stuff on me. He wouldn't talk to me for two months. When I finally got to confront him, he blamed it on me in front of the team, saying how gay it was that I would try to kiss him and how I had betrayed him and so on.

So here I have experienced two people who hold conservative beliefs that prevent them from accepting their sexual impulses without shame, and they both are trying to displace it on me, simply because I am an openly gay man who chooses to do my work around my sexuality.

Go figure.


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#360056 - 04/18/11 12:42 AM Re: Is SSA "stronger" than normal sex urges? [Re: risingagain]
risingagain Offline
Member
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Registered: 11/09/10
Posts: 595
Loc: Vancouver, BC, Canada

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#360065 - 04/18/11 03:45 AM Re: Is SSA "stronger" than normal sex urges? [Re: risingagain]
CheerfulJohn Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/22/10
Posts: 142
Loc: England (at the moment)
ssa= difficult topic here where there are some new taboos (since evolution became the popular myth).

SSA in my experience was need driven and like anything that you know doesn't work, it gets more desperate. The need was never met, resolved, satisfied, with SSA just aggravated. The feeling of connection with a male was lost in this act of cannibalism. The desire to be very close to males has not left me.....it is not easy because I am afraid they will think I am after them sexually or they will be after me sexually or not able to cope with remaining CSA/PTSD symptoms...I am less afraid but a lot older and not sure what I can expect...?

When the need is met, ie the trauma heard and comforted, the need decreases. Guess what the SSA decreases.


My experience of sex with my woman has generally been another thing: less urgent, trauma related, less fear, less driven, but just as powerful, if not stronger! (It was generally good, see other posts for issues there smile )

Bobcat you are a light. Beam on.
Bell well all
CJ

_________________________
Wolves will live with lambs. Leopards will lie down with goats. Calves, young lions, and year-old lambs will be together, and little children will lead them.

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#360068 - 04/18/11 07:22 AM Re: Is SSA "stronger" than normal sex urges? [Re: CheerfulJohn]
Dan99 Offline


Registered: 06/18/07
Posts: 100
Loc: Washington DC
For me, CJ sums it up very clearly. When I am taking care of my needs, SSA fades away. When I'm under stress and treating myself badly, SSA emerges. It's very different from my natural attraction to women, which tends to be much more constant and steady.

Is the SSA urge stronger? I guess I'd say it is, because for me it's an addictive urge. When I've slept with a man, it's been at a time when I was craving the chemical release to block out other things. Using the high I get to try to paper over other issues. So to the extent that it's an addictive release, yes it's stronger. Sort of like the difference between the way a casual drinker might want a beer on a hot day as opposed to a drunk looking for a drink. In my case, illicit sex is the addictive high. For what it's worth, I have had more illicit encounters with women than men. These were driven by the same addictive urges.

I didn't really struggle with SSA (or sex addiction) until I changed jobs. I used to work in a profession that had constant stress. Lot's of high-stress situations and deadlines. I can see now that the reason I thrived in that job was because of my childhood. I grew up in a state of constant fear and anxiety. So even though I didn't know that's what I was trying to recreate in my choice of professions, that's what it was giving me, a near constant high. When I finally moved up and on to a different job, the change was dramatic. I knew I should want the things I was getting: better pay, better hours, much nicer environment, etc. But the adrenaline was gone. And the way I got it back was by sexually acting out.

Thanks for starting the topic and to all the guys who are contributing. This is such a tough topic and so difficult to manage, I think a lot of people benefit from the discussion. It took me a long time to begin wrestling with it, and I hope other guys are smarter than that and open up about it before it causes havoc in their lives

_________________________
Work like you don't need the money;
dance like no one is watching;
sing like no one is listening;
love like you've never been hurt;
and live life every day as if it were your last.

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#360071 - 04/18/11 07:47 AM Re: Is SSA "stronger" than normal sex urges? [Re: Dan99]
itrahan Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 03/02/10
Posts: 96
Loc: Louisiana, Gulf Coast
Dan....Nicely put, not only can I understand but fully relate. I have been a part of plenty disfunctional situations & thinking back now, I can find that adrnenaline rush....but now assocaiting it with brain chemical responce to constant childhood fear & anxiety.....I am starting to see myself as an "adrenaline junky" and subconciousily my defense mechanism not to hurt myself or betray anyone else has beed to isolate, withdraw & disassociate. What a revelation. Now for the journey to well-being, so similar an impossibility as solving our national debt....lol ( or so it seems). I am not as resilient as Cher when it comes to re-creating myself! Dan thanks for insight....the last two comments may seem negative, but i desparatley need humor to temper things at times.

Thanks

Ivan


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#360078 - 04/18/11 09:10 AM Re: Is SSA "stronger" than normal sex urges? [Re: itrahan]
Anthony39 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/15/07
Posts: 345
Loc: Montreal, Canada
I also agree with Dan on the addictive aspect. I am in a point in my life where I have a lot of issues with SSA. I repressed those urges for so long (i haven't acted out in over 20 years) but they are still there and they are real. I mean lets be honest here I still use porn so it is a form of acting out.
I am going into this process honestly. I may not fully understand these urges, but the fact that I accept them as part of who I am makes it a lot less stressful. I started asking myself wether it is sex or intimacy that I am after. I asked my Therapist and a few of the guys in here wether you can have an intimate relationship/friendship with a man without sex. All the answers I got were YES it exists. It is such a foreign concept to me. All those years of acting out were a quest for intimacy. Of course I set myself up to fail from the start. Prostitution, and other behaviours were not going to attract males looking for friendship.
The sexual attraction part , Who knows!!, but I am willing to accept that it may be part of my life.
As Dan said above and this is important "When I am taking care of my needs, SSA fades away."

_________________________
Look up and not down; look forward and not back; look out and not in; and lend a hand.
E. E. Hale


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eM213aMKTHg

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#360080 - 04/18/11 09:38 AM Re: Is SSA "stronger" than normal sex urges? [Re: Anthony39]
risingagain Offline
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MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/09/10
Posts: 595
Loc: Vancouver, BC, Canada
Quote:
I asked my Therapist and a few of the guys in here wether you can have an intimate relationship/friendship with a man without sex. All the answers I got were YES it exists.


A lot of things on this thread I can't relate to but the above quote I can. That's really how I approach relationships- friendship first. If love and romance develop, I'm open to that if it feels right.


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#360081 - 04/18/11 09:47 AM Re: Is SSA "stronger" than normal sex urges? [Re: Anthony39]
Mountainous Buck Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 12/15/09
Posts: 1626
Loc: Minnesota
Powerful posts and sharing, men!

Three months before my memories resurfaced about the abuse, I had a prominent chiropractic physician diagnose me as living on adrenaline (a counselor talked about that several years earlierwith regard to my sexual acting out I.e.'"adrenaline junkie").

I keep getting messages from men in my life to slow down and have a routine-that has been difficult and frightening for me all my life. But it is healing and helps me identify the true needs that I have-including intimacy with others (especially with men).

So here is a question I have: I understand the damage acting out had on ME and my relationship with self and others, how did I hurt others using them for sex and discarding them immediately? What damage did I do during all those years?

_________________________
We have to take responsibility for what we're not responsible for.

“It doesn't matter where you've come from,
It matters where you go" Frank Turner

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#360082 - 04/18/11 10:06 AM Re: Is SSA "stronger" than normal sex urges? [Re: Mountainous Buck]
itrahan Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 03/02/10
Posts: 96
Loc: Louisiana, Gulf Coast
What a relevant question....you see in my darkest thoughts, the stimulus was my objective....a fix for the frustration & anxiety felt. The EpiPen or deterrant was when the thought of bringing in someone else to this realm of agony... too complicated from experience & would only heap on the guilt & possible shame from exposure. The ability to be objective was always right on the edge.....also potential adrenaline rush, ex..is it worth it?, is this where i lose control, could this be a permanent escape? So many dillusional questions. Before I started accepting what happen to me i would look at other guys & wonder how they function so well with all this bullshit in their heads, or is it just me that thinks this way?

Ivan



Edited by itrahan (04/18/11 10:19 AM)

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#360083 - 04/18/11 10:12 AM Re: Is SSA "stronger" than normal sex urges? [Re: risingagain]
risingagain Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/09/10
Posts: 595
Loc: Vancouver, BC, Canada
Blaming your gay urges is not going to help.
Either they are there because you are gay,
or they are there because they are a survival response where you recreate some aspect of the abuse.

Whichever it is for you, shame and blame only perpetuate the cycle.

Compassion, self-awareness, and responsible choice (according to your heart) will help.


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#360084 - 04/18/11 10:20 AM Re: Is SSA "stronger" than normal sex urges? [Re: risingagain]
risingagain Offline
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Registered: 11/09/10
Posts: 595
Loc: Vancouver, BC, Canada
Quote:
So here is a question I have: I understand the damage acting out had on ME and my relationship with self and others, how did I hurt others using them for sex and discarding them immediately? What damage did I do during all those years?


Thanks for asking. Well, when my two Mormon friends perpetrated on me it hurt me. They were saying that my friendship with them meant nothing and that I was only good for them to explore their own sexual need (and then blame me). It also hurt their wives and families, I would think they would struggle to trust them.

Guys have approached me for sex and, in the past, I have gone with it. With some of these guys they just wanted the act of sex. That's not what I'm looking for. So when I wanted to develop more intimacy they had already moved on. That hurt me too. I was pretty foolish to put the cart before the horse, so now I always develop friendship and intimacy first before considering sex.

For me my SSA has not changed or diminished as I develop greater male-male bonding (through football, climbing and my mens group). Since I don't have underlying religious beliefs, I can live in integrity and compassion for myself without fighting myself all the time.

There is one area of my sexuality that I struggle with, and that is my kinky side, which I really feel is not healthy at the moment. The way I am able to be aroused by someone wanting to diminish, restrain, control, use, and abandon me is not the expansiveness that my soul deserves and knows. So when I have these types of fantasies I will not entertain them. I focus on the feeling of being deeply loved and cared for in a reciprocal way, and sex is an expression of that.


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#360085 - 04/18/11 10:34 AM Re: Is SSA "stronger" than normal sex urges? [Re: risingagain]
risingagain Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/09/10
Posts: 595
Loc: Vancouver, BC, Canada
The whole concepting of fighting yourself and your urges has its genesis in the idea of a devil who fights with God.

In other spiritual beliefs, there is no devil per se, and darkness is seen as having been created by light to help us remember the truth- that we are all undivided. These are the so-called non-dualistic beliefs. 'We are all one'

'The only devils in this world are those running around in our own hearts, and that is where all our battles should be fought.'
-Ghandi

So from a non-dualistic point of view, darkness has no power on its own, but is simply the absence of light. It is just a veil to the deeper truth. The abuse clouds my ability to form healthy relationships. It leaves me with scars of shame, doubt, and fear. We are all wounded. Every person on this planet.

But by looking into my wounds and having emotionally authentic experiences of releasing the shame, doubt, fear, I can rediscover my innocence and the light in my house. Light house. We are Light Houses.

I have no doubt that every heinous crime ever committed by humans is not the result of some external force or devil but simply the result of crusted over wounds, and dysfunctional survival mechanisms, and healing that never happened.

So I choose to look at my wounds, to face my hurts and to see my potential both for heartfelt, positive action, and for wounded, destructive action.


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#360092 - 04/18/11 11:33 AM Re: Is SSA "stronger" than normal sex urges? [Re: risingagain]
risingagain Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/09/10
Posts: 595
Loc: Vancouver, BC, Canada
Responsibility

Response-Ability

My ability to respond

Openness

Availability

Chakras open, chi moving, energy flowing

Feeling and addressing the wounds
to become more open

t+6 months and I am feeling better


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#360093 - 04/18/11 11:59 AM Re: Is SSA "stronger" than normal sex urges? [Re: risingagain]
Mountainous Buck Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 12/15/09
Posts: 1626
Loc: Minnesota
Good for you! Thanks for all you post-what did u think of my question how I damage the people I used in my selfish pursuit of sex?

What would healing for these people look like? If the men in adulthood who used and abandoned u (not your perps)-were to turn around and donthe right thing to you -what would that look like?



Edited by Mountainous Buck (04/18/11 12:10 PM)
_________________________
We have to take responsibility for what we're not responsible for.

“It doesn't matter where you've come from,
It matters where you go" Frank Turner

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#360095 - 04/18/11 12:09 PM Re: Is SSA "stronger" than normal sex urges? [Re: Mountainous Buck]
Anthony39 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/15/07
Posts: 345
Loc: Montreal, Canada
Hey Montainous Buck,

Most of my encounters were of a one night thing so I didn't think of them and their feelings. I know it damaged my relationship with my girlfriend at the time. I became more closed and pushed her away. But I think most of the damage I did to myself. Every encounter making things more complicated. It really screwed me to live that double life to this day.

Anthony

_________________________
Look up and not down; look forward and not back; look out and not in; and lend a hand.
E. E. Hale


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eM213aMKTHg

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#360102 - 04/18/11 01:46 PM Re: Is SSA "stronger" than normal sex urges? [Re: Mountainous Buck]
westchesterguy Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/13/09
Posts: 421
Loc: Westchester County NY
Originally Posted By: Mountainous Buck
...I understand the damage acting out had on ME and my relationship with self and others, how did I hurt others using them for sex and discarding them immediately? What damage did I do during all those years?


mb - one question: i'll ask how much power one thinks he has in that case, because my view is that our actions create misplaced guilt.

simple scenario: truck stop cruising. whether you pursue or are pursued, either goes, the action takes place in a car or restroom. who is damaged? was someone forced into an act he didn't want or was this a mutual act?

i think we would agree that scenario is not "healthy" sexuality for us, but are we beating ourselves upside the head for no reason...? and simply because this hunt was exactly what was done to us as boys? do we want that other guy to be our victim?

have thought about this before and did eventually cut loose the guilt i carried that somehow the other player was damaged by me. the guilt that did remain was that i was using that 10 minute exercise to just be touched by another guy and as a way to compensate for not having a legitimate relationship...for which i was unfit anyway. who would want a relationship with a guy like me who hits a truck stop for sex? cycle back...repeat over and over again.

has nothing to do with the "other guy" because he was very likely there for exactly the same reasons.

_________________________
Jeff

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#360199 - 04/19/11 01:52 PM Re: Is SSA "stronger" than normal sex urges? [Re: Mountainous Buck]
risingagain Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/09/10
Posts: 595
Loc: Vancouver, BC, Canada
Originally Posted By: Mountainous Buck
Good for you! Thanks for all you post-what did u think of my question how I damage the people I used in my selfish pursuit of sex?


Great question. It made me feel a sense of relief to finally understand all the guys I chose to have sexual experiences with that left me, and wondering why they didn't have the same feelings that I did.... the same desire for closeness.

Something I found funny was how my Mormon friend kept saying that I'd find a great girl some day. How he saw me in the future as a good father and so on. But how he was totally not seeing me, only his own projection of what an ideal marriage looks like to him. I think he really thought that me playing tackle football would 'toughen me up' and that my 'homosexual urges' would diminish as I found real camaraderie among men. Well, it's funny because it did toughen me up... but it didn't change my sexual orientation.

And then he came out with his backhanded sexual advances. Shame is really the root of so much suffering. A belief system which shames a person for how they feel, or for how they act, is toxic to life. This is not having no 'moral compass'. No, it is simply acknowledging that actions have consequences and that all of us have the right to self-determine who and how we love, so long as it respects the rights of others to self-determine.

Quote:
What would healing for these people look like? If the men in adulthood who used and abandoned u (not your perps)-were to turn around and donthe right thing to you -what would that look like?


I think healing can only come with looking at our wounds, including the deep wounds of shame that society and religion teaches men with SSA, and the deep wounds of shame that CSA survivors face in time.

What do you think?


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#360746 - 04/25/11 08:36 PM Re: Is SSA "stronger" than normal sex urges? [Re: risingagain]
VictoryisRs Offline
Guest

Registered: 12/13/07
Posts: 36
Loc: Seattle, WA
I don't know what healing would look like for these other men that you mention. IT's difficult (and I question whether even healthy) for me to look in the rear view mirror of other peoples' lives and try to envision their healing based on a 'what if' scenario. How does this have any impact on ourselves in the present? I think what you're really asking is 'what would the fork in the road look like if these men had taken a left instead of right? DOes it matter in the present? Does the question imply wanting to repair the damage in their lives versus your own?

I like your ealier words: Whichever it is for you, shame and blame only perpetuate the cycle.

Compassion, self-awareness, and responsible choice (according to your heart) will help.


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#360787 - 04/26/11 11:38 AM Re: Is SSA "stronger" than normal sex urges? [Re: VictoryisRs]
risingagain Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/09/10
Posts: 595
Loc: Vancouver, BC, Canada
What would healing look like?

There have been a few men in my life who stepped in when they saw me being taken advantage of. One comes to mind, a coworker at an air traffic control company I worked for in uni. Since I escaped to computers, I'm also pretty prolific with them.

My coworker said to me, you know Jan, you're doing the same work that we full-time graduates do here, you're way ahead of the curve, but you're getting paid co-op wages (about 600$ a week for 40 hrs).

I hadn't even thought I would be worth more to the company, but my coworker was telling me I was!!! Something kind of cracked in me.

Anyway, my boss asked me to stay on there after my 4 month work term ended. They wanted me to stay full-time. I felt that my colleague had my back, so with courage I went to my boss and said I'm doing the work of a full-time graduate, here's the evidence, you want me full-time, I would like that, but I would like to be paid what a full-time graduate makes.

He laughed at me.

Then he called my coworker into his office and all I heard were raised voices.

My coworker came out of the office red in the face and grabbed his coat. 'Come on,' he said to me 'we're getting out of here.'

We both left the job that day and never returned. He had been there for years, and he ended up moving to another city.

That man did right by me.
I'm grateful.


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#362268 - 05/15/11 04:27 PM Re: Is SSA "stronger" than normal sex urges? [Re: risingagain]
h.beat,h.break Offline


Registered: 06/05/09
Posts: 124
Loc: New York
I know this topic has probably been pushed to it's limits (and there were some great points that were made while I was reading them) but I just wanted to add my own two cents to it anyway because a lot of good stuff was said.

Before I even thought about looking into support for CSA, I went on a "quest" of sorts to figure some stuff out regarding my sexuality. I was with a lot of guys and I didn't enjoy the encounters either. I know someone else posted the same feelings about the encounters and I was also thinking about the comment regarding the brain activity that takes place for men who are victims of CSA.

For me, personally, I feel like there is something that we feel that we are missing that we internally want from other men. Like, we desire to be the type of men they are, real "men" (because what is a man?). Anyway, manhood is important to us so I think a part of us desires that piece that was taken from us. Again, this is just my opinion, but just from the men that I was with, they were they type of guys I idealized (strong, social, extraverted). All of the things I wasn't and still am not. There's more I could say, but I just got wrapped up in some other thoughts so I can't remember any of what I wanted to say here. lol.

_________________________
Hey, if "black sheep" means you're the only non-douche of the family, take that with some pride.

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#362344 - 05/16/11 04:53 PM Re: Is SSA "stronger" than normal sex urges? [Re: h.beat,h.break]
lfp Offline


Registered: 11/02/08
Posts: 121
Originally Posted By: h.beat,h.break

For me, personally, I feel like there is something that we feel that we are missing that we internally want from other men. Like, we desire to be the type of men they are, real "men" (because what is a man?). Anyway, manhood is important to us so I think a part of us desires that piece that was taken from us.


Indeed, I can completely, completely understand the "what we want from other men" part. I'm starting to think that there is a subtle link between SSA and the profound desire for recognition and healthy male bonding. I would say that for survivors of male perpetrators the issue of male bonding is difficult and is charged since the early years with undesired internalizations and problems.

In my opinion, some fraction of straight male survivors with SSA issues long for significant male bonding: the desire, not only to "fit in" but to believe and be internally convinced that they indeed "fit in" could be crucial. This may be accompanied with covert cravings such as the desire to feel that he has the same sexual faculties of the other one, in other words, the sexual de-victimization.

_________________________
Consider the postage stamp: its usefulness consists in the ability to stick to one thing till it gets there. ~Josh Billings.
The Round Table, Mondays 7:30pm CST.

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#364160 - 06/14/11 09:32 AM Re: Is SSA "stronger" than normal sex urges? [Re: h.beat,h.break]
thefutureorbust Offline


Registered: 04/24/11
Posts: 171
Loc: NC
I couldnt agree more with this Post. I have never acted out with men outside of abuse, but my SSA seems to be mixed with anxiety and looking for "something" from "him". Mastery of the abuse? steal his masculinity? friendship? all of the above? I do act out with women however, I have been in long term relationships but my wife just left me after she found out I cheated on her with other women years ago. I have alot of abuse to overcome and i hope someday I can have a "normal" relationship. They awlays start off hot and heavy, we become VERY interested in each other, she seems PERFECT..then when we argue or something goes wrong BOOM issues arise and co-dependancy kicks in hardcore. I want to break the cycle someday and not look at women as objects so much at times

_________________________
"What does not kill me makes me stronger"

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