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#359391 - 04/12/11 01:02 AM Keeping My Young Sons Safe
Keeptrying Offline


Registered: 04/07/11
Posts: 50
I've had male friends who are close to their mothers since middle school. After meeting with my husband 11 years ago, my whole world has changed, and now I'm trying very hard to keep my four year-old twin boys safe from my mother-in-law. Here is why:

I can not say definitely that my 40 year-old husband and his 47 year-old brother are male survivors of their mother's sexual abuse because neither would admit that. But I found many things abnormal and disturbing about my mother-in-law (She is used in referring to address her) from my own experiences and books I read. I summarize these things in three categories: A - things I learned about my husband A; B - Things about his brother B; C - things that I'm concerned about my twin boys C. And finally my questions are numbered in Qs.

A1. She walks in her adult sons' rooms when they're naked like taking a shower or changing clothes;
A2. A goes lingerie shopping with her, buying her bras and panties. A commented to me that her breasts are big;
A3. A wears her underpants in winters. I remember one pink, one yellow with teddy bears, one green poky dots;
A4. Her hand is on A's lap when they are sitting together;
A5. She walks with A hand-in-hand cross fingered like most lovers do;
A6. She beat A on regular basis when he was young;
A7. A was a bully himself when he was young and beat other kids smaller and weaker than him;
A8. A has told me many times that as long as he could remember like 2-3 years old, he's always touched and fondled girls of his age, later had sex with many girls without meaningful relationships;
A9. A was addicted to porns and burned maybe a thousand adult DVDs but seldom watched those;
A10. I found that A is very different from men that I dated before: demanding, manipulative, putting me down, accusing me for things that I didn't do, and cursing while in other times can be sweet and charming. I married him for reasons too long to be detailed here.
A11. When I discussed item A1-A5 with A, he was furious. Later I came across a book "silently seduced when parents make their children partners." I was so shocked and hid it from him. He found and read the book while I was away and told me that the emotional incest with his mother was true for him and his brother. He felt there was nothing he could do about it. If I ask if he would try professional help, he'd make my life like hell.

Here is what I know about my brother-in-law B:
B1. He lives with his parents and is with his mother all the time wherever she goes;
B2. For the 11 years that I knew A, or even before that since 1997 when B came to the US, B never dated anyone;
B3. B doesn't even have a male friend;
B4. B got married once after his parents and A immigrated to the US and had a daughter. He divorced and came to the US when his daughter was two. Now he has abandoned her and never admits to anyone he has a daughter. I've never seen any pictures of her in their house. There were unopened letters from the girl left in house remaining there for a long time.
B5. I rarely saw B talks with his dad. His parents go back to China every two years. Several years ago I was check calling history for a phone number that I forgot from an internet long distance service company which we all share the same account. I surprisingly found calls everyday from B to his mother. For the entire four months they were in China, B called her everyday, sometimes three times a day, and talking up to an hour. During the same period, he called his ex-wife and daughter twice, and one was on Chinese New Year, about 10 minutes. I was so wondering what a 40 year-old man has so much to talk to his mother that I printed out the calling records.
B5. I once unexpectedly walked in a guest bedroom in my house and found B was lying together with his mother taking a nap when they came to visit my baby twins.

Note: for both A and B, their father was working far away during most of their childhood and adolescence years.

I have struggle with issues that are so difficult with A emotionally meddling with his mother (physically I really don't know how to find out unless he speaks himself). But now my most urgent concerns are my twins. A and I took them to live with my family in China for the past two years so they could help us raising my sons. we moved back home last December for them to go to preschool. I suspect my mother-in-law has also physically sexually abused A and B after my husband started taking my twins to her house on Sundays without me:

C1. C came home from their grandparents house and took off their pants butt naked going to bed since that's what grandma did when they napped there with her (She came here today and said one of the boy's underwear was wet, and she took it off. But why didn't she just put on his outfit pants? She said it was them who didn't want to wear pants. As far as I know, that never happened before. She added there was nothing wrong with them sleeping butt naked since that was what she did with A and B when they were boys);
C2. She talked to me one time (we rarely have calls and conversations) that they were jumping up and down on her bed butt naked like it was so much fun. It's cold winter time by the way.
C3. The only thing she ever commented on them was to tell me how their penis and balls look like;
C4. For the past several visits, she washed my sons' anal area because she said they were ichy there. Now my sons believe that their rectums are itchy (both of them at the same time) only on Sunday afternoons when they visit their grandma who washes their bottom on every visit even though they take a bath everyday at home (I went with them last time they visited her, no itchy at all. Actually it's been a whole month since their last visit to her, one of the boys complained about some itch only once. But certainly it was not a Sunday afternoon, and certainly not both of them were itchy at the same time).

I wish that I could find out more about A and B's relationship with their mother. But their house is in such secrecy and there are rarely any other visitors. Unless A and B speak up, which I doubt, no one ever knows what happened with their mother sexually when they were young boys. My questions are:

Q1. Is there a pattern of sexual abuse by this woman when you connect A, B and C together?
Q2. I had hired a nanny when my babies were 8, 9 months old. She was 60 years old, and later I found out that she took out her big breasts and let the baby boys to play with them. If it were a man who let a little girl touches him, it's definitely a crime. But for a woman, is it just an innocent play or comfort? For my understanding, if a mother or a family member shows and let her sons and grandsons playing her breasts on continuing basis, it's really a powerful way to control them. Am I right?
Q3. I bought books and started to teach my sons that their body is private that no one else, not mommy nor daddy nor grandma nor uncle could touch their private parts for fun or play some games. But my mother-in-law is so sneaky and made them to believe that they need to be washed (fondled?) by her. I read some men molest young girls when they're asleep. What if she does the same when they nap at her house?
Q4. I talked with my husband about not letting her mother take off our sons pants and wash them at her house. He said OK. But I doubt she would listen and he would stand up to her.
I tried to find reasons not letting my sons go there, but my husband insisted taking them. If I tell him the real reason, he'd be so furious. I thought about going there together with them, but he would not like that either, because Sunday afternoon is their family time. What else can I do?

Thank you very much for your time, and help!



Edited by Keeptrying (07/13/11 11:26 PM)

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#359397 - 04/12/11 02:03 AM Re: Keeping My Young Sons Safe [Re: Keeptrying]
Still Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/16/07
Posts: 6401
Loc: 2.5 NATO Nations
OK...THAT is one very fkd-up woman who created some very submissive sons whom one is putting his mother's sick demands above the safety of his sons.

Not ONE element you describe above about A and B and the mother is normal. It all points to mental defects associated with being a child molester.

Elements C1, C2, C3 and C4 are grounds to call the police (like yesterday) whether your husband freaks out or not. I'm only concerned for the boys safety...not about ANYONE'S hurt feelings or damaged relationships.

Get the boys to a therapist right away (right away) and he or she will get a ton of actionable information out of them. The therapist has a duty to report the abuse, so if you don't want to dial the phone, the therapist will.

These are your children. Its your job to keep them out of this psycho's grasp. Keep them away from her no matter what the price to you. They will be devastated for the remainder of their lives if she has her way.

_________________________
Wishing You Were Here!

The Aftermath Video

The Water Buffalo Song

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#359399 - 04/12/11 04:14 AM Re: Keeping My Young Sons Safe [Re: Still]
1.healing Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 09/10/10
Posts: 261
Loc: NW Ohio
Dear Keeptrying,

These are not normal things you describe and even cultural differences do not account for these unusual behaviors, odd and wrong are the same in all languages and across all cultures. I think Rob has offered excellent advice. Especially since you are obviously very alone in the protection of these innocent boys. You need strong allies and protection and the best way to access that will be through professionals. You also need to contact your own family to let them know of your situation, you are likely going to face some powerful opposition and you are going to need their support.

We here realize how difficult this situation is and admire your courage to keep these innocent boys safe. What you do today to protect them will be much easier, as difficult as it is, than the consequences in the future of them being sexually molested and abused by this very sick woman who has already begun to harm them.

Please, stay in touch here and know you are supported by a community of people who really do understand and care about what happens to you and your family.

Gary

_________________________
"It's never too late to be what you might have been."

George Elliot

"You cannot find peace by avoiding life."

Virginia Woolf

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#359426 - 04/12/11 11:05 AM Re: Keeping My Young Sons Safe [Re: 1.healing]
Still Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/16/07
Posts: 6401
Loc: 2.5 NATO Nations
Keeptrying,

I appologize for coming on so strong in my first reply. I went into panic-mode as i do when children are being hurt. I lost much sleep last night worrying from your situation. You truly are issolated and in a very tough situation. In know what its like to be trapped like that. I wish we could lower a helicopter to pick-up you and the twins, but we can't.

You truly are brave and I do worry for you as well. Continue to be the strong woman and mother you are. I realize you are doing the best you can under horrid circumstances. I will be praying for you.

_________________________
Wishing You Were Here!

The Aftermath Video

The Water Buffalo Song

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#359428 - 04/12/11 11:39 AM Re: Keeping My Young Sons Safe [Re: 1.healing]
Keeptrying Offline


Registered: 04/07/11
Posts: 50
Thanks, Rob and Gary. There was a knot in my stomach when I read your replies. My worst worries are not me imagining things. My children are already in harm's way. I'll stop my husband taking them to his mother's house right away. I'll never leave my boys with her and her family alone any more.

I shared the information about my husband and his brother with my therapist while I was pregnant and after I gave birth to my twins. But she didn't say yes or no about whether their mother had sexually abused them based on what I noted in my post. My husband and I were also seeing a family psychologist at the same for many difficult issues in our marriage. I went back to her last week and she recommended this site to me.

My sons are very close to their dad, and like their uncle (my brother-in-law). I don't know how to explain to them what happened to their dad and uncle, and how our life would be changed if police and government agencies get involved. We came back to the US only 4 months ago, and their English is just picking up. I don't know whether they'll be terrified going to therapies about something so bad.

I'll work with the family therapist to find help. Please share with me anything so that I can be prepared. If I call the police, what evidences should I have? Besides the changes in my boys' behavior like going to bed without undies, and what my sons and mother-in-law told me, I don't have anything solid to show. My father-in-law, brother-in-law and my husband may have witnessed some of the things she did with them, but I think they'd rather die than testify against her.


Keeptrying



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#359430 - 04/12/11 12:09 PM Re: Keeping My Young Sons Safe [Re: Keeptrying]
Still Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/16/07
Posts: 6401
Loc: 2.5 NATO Nations
Keeptrying,

You are correct about your evaluation of the evidence as it currently exists. If you proceed as things currntly are, it will all blow-up in your face. So I agree with your plan of actively keeping them safe and segregated from the mother. This is a good and effective interim (and maybe long-term solution).

That is why I suggested a licensed therapist for reporting. In most states, they have inherent authority and thus can create statements of existing crime or child welfare concerns. They can set protective actions into motion.


So, given all this, I suggest going into "Discovery and Research" mode. Use the internet to learn all you can about how these things work in your state. Talk to social service people, talk to therapists, maybe talk to the sex-offender District Attorney in your jursidiction. Get yourself as educated and armed with as much information as possible so that when the hammer falls (at your choosing) you will know exactly how things will procede.

Find out the law about YOU recording conversations with your children. You can interview your chidlren about what they have experienced. Wether or not its admissable in court may be another thing. A recording of their accounts may be enough for the District Attorney to take action. If you do record things, keep the digital files safely stored. Maybe on a memory-stick.

But either way, you can gather a lot of very valuable and powerful information by talking to those people who deal with this stuff on a daily, professional basis.

We ARE here for you.



Edited by Robbie Brown (04/12/11 12:11 PM)
_________________________
Wishing You Were Here!

The Aftermath Video

The Water Buffalo Song

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#359431 - 04/12/11 12:23 PM Re: Keeping My Young Sons Safe [Re: Keeptrying]
RecoveryReady1 Offline


Registered: 12/05/10
Posts: 433
Keeptrying,
This is a classic case of a predator.....they have this kind of power over others.....Don't let her steal your boys away.
Get the help you need ....find the help you can trust......
They depend on you......These men are too afraid of her to save the children......This makes them predatory as well....complicit.
The children are not safe with them if they will not protect them...
I am praying for you and your boys.....that you find the help and support you need.....It is out there....and you have to get it.
Love and support
Steve


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#359433 - 04/12/11 01:24 PM Re: Keeping My Young Sons Safe [Re: RecoveryReady1]
1.healing Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 09/10/10
Posts: 261
Loc: NW Ohio
Dear Keeptrying,

I'm glad that you already have the support of a therapist and trust that she will continue to guide you in the right direction with the right people. No more Sunday visits to Grandma's house!, especially not without you present, you are the only one who will keep your boys safe, the men in this family are too under the influence of this predatory woman and can't be relied on to protect the children.

Your concern about the "authorities" becoming involved is noted, but you must also realize that this may become a necessity if the children cannot be protected from their other family members. I still encourage you to contact your own family so that you have their support and hope that you have trusted friends here in the States you can rely on for support as well?

You're in this communities best hopes and prayers, you're a brave woman doing the right thing and it's appreciated by people who understand and care about the children's safety and yours as well.

Gary

_________________________
"It's never too late to be what you might have been."

George Elliot

"You cannot find peace by avoiding life."

Virginia Woolf

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#359435 - 04/12/11 01:30 PM Re: Keeping My Young Sons Safe [Re: Keeptrying]
CruxFidelis Offline


Registered: 06/16/10
Posts: 486
Loc: NJ
Hi Keeptrying,

This isn't true for all survivors, but I have noticed that acknowledging the seriousness of another person's abuse can be easier than getting angry about your own abuse. Perhaps if you take your boys to a good child psychologist who is skilled at getting children to talk about their problems, and the therapist reports the abuse to the authorities, your husband might begin to see his mother for the predator that she is. Perhaps his protective instincts as a father will kick in.

I can't promise that it won't be painful for you to go through, Keeptrying, but your twins are lucky to have a GOOD MOM who cares about them enough to protect them from any continued abuse. They need to know that it is not their fault that they were abused. It might make them feel hurt to know that they can no longer spend time with their grandmother, but when they get older, they will know that at least they have a mother who cared about their well-being enough to take them out of that situation. Remember to take care of yourself as a mother, too. It is not your fault if you could not recognize their grandmother as the sexual predator that she was, but now that you know, you have the responsibility of keeping her out of their lives.

_________________________
“If a man wishes to be sure of the road he treads on, he must close his eyes and walk in the dark.”

- Saint John of the Cross

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#359448 - 04/12/11 05:49 PM Re: Keeping My Young Sons Safe [Re: CruxFidelis]
Keeptrying Offline


Registered: 04/07/11
Posts: 50
The things on my A+B list have been on my mind for years and I tried to get verified by sharing them with several therapists but got neither a yes nor a no. Before coming to this community, I found very few sources to learn about sexual abuses of young boys. As a woman I only have my own judgment that I'd never do any of those things to my own sons because it is so wrong! Even putting my hand on an older child's lap is so violating his boundaries, making him so uncomfortable and confusing. My husband brushed aways my concerns and said all those things are not a big deal. And he made sure that I won't bring it up again.

My heart is heavy. When I noticed the things on List C, I thought those are things leading to abuse. I don't know how much damage she's done to them so far, and how could they get recovered at such a young age?

Thank you all, for your support, love, and most important, advices!


Keeptrying



Edited by Keeptrying (04/20/11 01:34 PM)

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#359461 - 04/12/11 07:12 PM Re: Keeping My Young Sons Safe [Re: Keeptrying]
RecoveryReady1 Offline


Registered: 12/05/10
Posts: 433
Keeptrying,
It is clear that you are a loving, caring, mother who is there for her children.....It's plain as day in your words.
Trust your own judgement....you are right!
Love and support


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#359473 - 04/12/11 08:55 PM Re: Keeping My Young Sons Safe [Re: RecoveryReady1]
Anthony39 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/15/07
Posts: 345
Loc: Montreal, Canada
I have been waiting to answer your post. I needed to think about what to say.
I will tell you what i wish an adult would have said when I was a child.
The safety of your children come first. They should be removed from any danger of being abused. This is the first responsibility of a parent. They come first.
You mention how difficult it would be to have their lives turned up side down if the authorities were to get involved. Think of the alternative. I know you feel alone, get the resources available, take charge. As scary as it maybe, you have to do the right thing. There is a way out of this.
I read the other posts and I know you are doing what you can, but please understand there can be no hesitation on your part. The consequences are catastrophic. Ask any of the guys in here.
I don't want to sound harsh but i feel a certain amount of frustration when it comes to these types of situations. You are the one in charge, you are the adult.
Please stay in touch and let us know how your little ones are. I also have twins at home. My boys are 5.
Take care,
Anthony

_________________________
Look up and not down; look forward and not back; look out and not in; and lend a hand.
E. E. Hale


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eM213aMKTHg

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#359478 - 04/12/11 09:29 PM Re: Keeping My Young Sons Safe [Re: Anthony39]
Keeptrying Offline


Registered: 04/07/11
Posts: 50
Thanks, Anthony. You said "there is a way out of this" and the "alternative." Would you please be more specific, perhaps in a PM? I'm not hesitating after I read all the responses. I told my husband already over dinner that he will no longer take the boys to his mother's house without me. I didn't tell him the reason because I don't think either he or I am ready for what comes next.

Keeptrying


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#359492 - 04/12/11 11:06 PM Re: Keeping My Young Sons Safe [Re: Keeptrying]
TJ jeff Offline
Moderator
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/07/04
Posts: 3365
Loc: Northern Wisconsin
Keeptrying,

I could write a novel in response to your post but sadly I'm running short on time tonight - but - so much of what you wrote about your husband and his brother echos of my own past with my mother (yes - she physical/mentaly/and indirectly sexualy abused me)

there are so many "boundaries" that she has crossed with your husband, his brother, and with your 2 sons

I had to go back and re-read your post... - I do know from my own time in the military that customs are very diffrent in other countries than they are here in the states (when I first read your post I was thinking that it was her that was in China - but after re-reading it I saw that it was your parents who are in China) - I can say very wholeheartedly that what you have described is NOT normal for the U.S.

your C questions rally chill me to the core - when i first read C1 I was thinking that you where describing them taking their diapers off (which some parents do in the thought that the child will not wet the bed - or that if they do they will feel it right away and stop and then go to the bathroom) - but then I saw that you said "pants" and it hit me that they are probably already out of diapers and if they are then there is absolutely no reason why she should have them going to bed butt naked

C3 is mind boggling to me - there is absolutely no reason she needs to be comenting on your sons penis and balls - granted, preschoolers still need help sometimes bathing/dressing/ect... - granted, she's going to see their private parts (my wife has worked most of her life with pre-schoolers - she would never comment on their private parts unless it where medicaly necessary)

C4 - she does this every time he is there? - has he every had this "itchy" problem at home?

Q1 - there is most deffinately a lack of normal boundaries

Q2 - yes, you are absolutely right - it's avery powerful form of control

Q3 - it's very possible that she might be - most children are very deep sleepers (and it would explain why she wanted them to go to bed buck naked so she would have easier access to their private parts)

Q4 - I hate to say it so directly because i don't know your husband at all - but... I will say that my wife and I have discussed that if we ever have kids that they will NEVER be alone with my mother at any time - and... if I had not went through recovery I have no doubts that I would not have stood up to my own mother (it's hard to stand up for others when you don't even fully recognize the damage that she did to you as a child)

is so much more I could say... - but need to close this... - but... - try to get your hands on a book called Toxic Parents by Dr Susan Forward - if you can get your husband to read it his eyes just might open up to his own past and then he will be totaly onboard with you about protecting his children

TJ jeff

_________________________
Who will cry for the little boy? - I will... - Antwone Fisher

Abuse happens in silence/isolation - Recovery happens only when that silence/isolation is broken...

TJ's History

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#359537 - 04/13/11 10:18 AM Re: Keeping My Young Sons Safe [Re: TJ jeff]
Keeptrying Offline


Registered: 04/07/11
Posts: 50
Thanks, TJ, I'll get the book. I appreciate every post here which helps me to put together my action plans. Cultural differences or not, one or two things maybe. But when you add up the 21 things on the list, it's getting out of the normal zone. And what I've learned so far may be just the tip of an iceberg. Only my husband and his brother can tell the whole story, which may never come to light when they're so protective of their mother.



Keeptrying



Edited by Keeptrying (04/20/11 01:37 PM)

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#359621 - 04/13/11 10:07 PM Re: Keeping My Young Sons Safe [Re: Keeptrying]
Keeptrying Offline


Registered: 04/07/11
Posts: 50
Had an ultrasound today. I'm six weeks pregnant. Seeing the heartbeat of the baby on screen, I cried hard. What's the meaning of bringing another new life if I can't keep it safe within my own family?

If not coming here, I'd still be wondering what my husband said is true: so she took their pants off, napped with them butt naked, made indecent comments of their private parts, and washed there like a ritual, what is the big deal?

So I still keep trying. From all the resources I've got so far, I'm still vague on exactly what was noted in Remickulous1's post that "as a very young child (maybe 18mo old), where she taught me to pleasure her sexually." I need to learn if my mother-in-law did the similar things with my sons. If anyone could help me with a detailed de>


Edited by Keeptrying (04/20/11 01:42 PM)

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#359636 - 04/14/11 12:14 AM Re: Keeping My Young Sons Safe [Re: Keeptrying]
Dewey Offline
Member

Registered: 11/13/02
Posts: 137
Loc: the sunshine state
Hi there,
I wish the absolute best for your family, for everyone involved. My suggestion would be to call your local Department of Children and Families Service and ask for their advice and help. Your local County Mental Health Center or Women's Resource Center are also good places to start. Keep going!

_________________________
I refuse to use my past as an excuse to not have a future.
My hero Dad; Trigger warning- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oi3Hyxuf5AE

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#359824 - 04/15/11 08:16 PM Re: Keeping My Young Sons Safe [Re: Keeptrying]
Napoleon Offline


Registered: 04/06/11
Posts: 166
Loc: Utah
Having read your post I am certain that what is happing to your children is that grandma is grooming them. Your children have already been groomed. She has no need to bath them, your children have already been abused. Things will escalate and get worse. This is how they work it. They slowly overcome boundaries, and the abuse will get worse. Look up GROOMING understand what it is.

Originally Posted By: Keeptrying
...because Sunday afternoon is their family time...

Grandparents who cross boundrys are not entitled to time with your children.

Abuse is easy to hide through threats and coercion. Do not allow any contact without supervision. Go on Sundays, or do not allow your kids to go (sounds like you already are going to do this, but I just want to re-assure you this is the right decision). Get a court restraining order if needed.

It sounds like you may be in an abusive situation with your husband.
Originally Posted By: Keeptrying
...Make life hell... ...he'd be so furious...."


You may need to leave your husband if he won’t support you on this. Would you consider returning to china? 5 Years ago I would not have asked this, but China’s economy may surpass the US by time they are of age.

_________________________
“Your only limit within reason, is the one that you set up in your own mind.” Napoleon Hill, The Law of Success, 1925.

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#359837 - 04/16/11 01:03 AM Re: Keeping My Young Sons Safe [Re: Napoleon]
Keeptrying Offline


Registered: 04/07/11
Posts: 50
For all of you caring about my sons' safety and having shared with me all the advices, I'd like to assure you that my sons will not see my mother-in-law supervised or not before any safety measure is put into place. If I could make it happen, they will only see her perhaps for holiday dinners in a public place with my eyes on them every minute.

Thanks for helping me to protect the boys from further harms. You're truly caring, supportive, insightful, and have a passion for helping each other

And yes, Napoleon, my husband is emotionally verbally abusive, and he is also an MS who is still in denial. He tried to abuse me so that I could experience what he had experienced as a child, and it's also for him to project his revenge towards his mother onto me. But I fought back, which he tried but was in fertile when he was a boy. It's much easier for me just to leave him. But our sons were born. Maybe it's my love for them, maybe it's their love for him, he's become a better father, except occasional short period outburst.

No matter what he decides, I'm not depend on him to keep the boys safe. I'll keep you updated.

Keeptrying



Edited by Keeptrying (04/20/11 01:45 PM)

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#359901 - 04/16/11 05:55 PM Re: Keeping My Young Sons Safe [Re: Keeptrying]
Keeptrying Offline


Registered: 04/07/11
Posts: 50
They - my husband and mother-in-law started making me and my sons to pay a huge price now for my disclosure of what was noted as C1-C4 in my initial post. My husband is either filing for divorce and seeking custody of my kids or he is going to leave us. My family is broken like many out there, and my kids will live without a father or mother. He defended her vigorously what she did was just caring about the boys. He said that what I've learned here were just skewed views.

I so regret having my children with him!



Edited by Keeptrying (04/16/11 08:07 PM)

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#359937 - 04/16/11 10:00 PM Re: Keeping My Young Sons Safe [Re: Keeptrying]
Dewey Offline
Member

Registered: 11/13/02
Posts: 137
Loc: the sunshine state
If you are separating then I reaffirm my suggestion to seek help from Children and Families. They will keep tabs on whomever has custody. Still hoping for the best for all involved! Dan

_________________________
I refuse to use my past as an excuse to not have a future.
My hero Dad; Trigger warning- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oi3Hyxuf5AE

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#359949 - 04/17/11 12:22 AM Re: Keeping My Young Sons Safe [Re: Dewey]
Napoleon Offline


Registered: 04/06/11
Posts: 166
Loc: Utah
Go to your family in china, take the kids.
They may be without father for awhile, but in china they will not be without family.

I make this as a suggestion but in the end you must make the decision, since I don’t have all the information. Even if you get custody of the kids his mom will have un supervised access to your kids during visitation if you stay. I assume, your family, and your support is in china.

_________________________
“Your only limit within reason, is the one that you set up in your own mind.” Napoleon Hill, The Law of Success, 1925.

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#360131 - 04/18/11 10:05 PM Re: Keeping My Young Sons Safe [Re: Keeptrying]
didi Offline


Registered: 07/12/08
Posts: 165
Loc: USA
Hello KeepTrying,

As a mother of a son who was CSA'd at the age of Four years old, I feel your pain.

I brought my son to a licensed Therapist who specifically deals with very young children who have been CSA'd. I am telling you from experience that it is imperative for you
to take your children to a therapist that is trained to help them. By law this person will contact the prosecutors office as she/he finds out what the children are telling her/him. They are trained in play/art and many other therapies that will help your children heal as they expose their abuse at their own pace.

Please feel free to contact me with any questions.



My heartfelt thoughts are with you and your children.



Didi

_________________________
Raising children who have been loaned to us for a brief moment outranks every other responsibility!

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#360144 - 04/18/11 11:58 PM Re: Keeping My Young Sons Safe [Re: didi]
Keeptrying Offline


Registered: 04/07/11
Posts: 50
Dear Didi,

I read your posts about your son and nephew after your response, I felt heart breaking for them too. Thank you very for your advices. The questions that I have are: if the therapist finds out what my kids tell them, and they contact prosecutors office, will they interview my mother-in-law, the kids teachers, friends and caretakers? And the abuse and therapy will be noted in their files, right? I'm not sure what their grandma gets for what she has done, but all the social exposures seem to be traumatizing them more.

How are your son and nephew doing now?

Keeptrying


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#360168 - 04/19/11 08:11 AM Re: Keeping My Young Sons Safe [Re: Keeptrying]
didi Offline


Registered: 07/12/08
Posts: 165
Loc: USA
Hello Keeptrying,

It is against the law for children's names and information to be exposed about this delicate subject if they are under the age of 18, therefore, social exposure is not a concern. I understand where you are coming from with this, trying to be protective of the children. CSA is not something to be ashamed of, it must be stopped and addressed accordingly. You must make the first move.

I am not sure where you live or what the protocol is for actually indicting or charging the Perp.

The boy's are doing well. They understand that they were abused, it was not their fault and it does not make them a lesser person. Flashbacks and Triggers do pop up and we address them as they occur. Thank You for asking.

Take care,

Didi

_________________________
Raising children who have been loaned to us for a brief moment outranks every other responsibility!

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#360266 - 04/19/11 11:56 PM Re: Keeping My Young Sons Safe [Re: Keeptrying]
Morning Star Offline
Member

Registered: 12/21/04
Posts: 1124
Loc: Home
Your mother's instincts are bang on, listen close! Plus it is not healthy to live in such a state of daily terror, for you and for the coming child! Seek external help, women's center etc.

Best to stay away, till the issue is out in the open, and sorted. Meanwhile confide in a friend, and keep a diary to track daily insights. Might be useful later on.

_________________________
~ It's over!...Let go of Thy Past, Remember Thy Self ~

Why Don't People Heal, by Caroline Myss; 30 days to clean up your vibrations - Abraham-Hicks

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#360346 - 04/21/11 12:18 AM Re: Keeping My Young Sons Safe [Re: Morning Star]
Keeptrying Offline


Registered: 04/07/11
Posts: 50
Dear All,

Thank you very much for your caring, support and advices, especially when you yourself and your loved ones have to deal with those traumatic experiences. For my sons, the good news is that I got alarmed early and sought for help by going to a professional and coming here before any possible further harms are done to them. The bad news is that without more serious harms, I'm not sure what Family and Children's Services will do to intervene. While in the meantime like Morning Star noted, I wanted to stay away. But my husband insisted taking them to his mother's house just as usual. I'll go with them for sure. If she doesn't let me in, it seems that calling the police is my only option. That means my kids will be so frightened when the whole family will be taken to the police station. She has assumed that I'll not call for my fear of scaring my sons. And my husband will accuse me and even tell the kids that I am the one who has caused all these bad things. I'll have a very hard time to explain to the kids what I need to do to keep them safe from a harm that is too difficult for them to understand at this young age.

I don't want to live in fear. But any protection procedure I am able to take like calling authorities seems going to turn my kids' life up side down. I did email my husband's business partner and his wife about what my mother-in-law has done with my sons. But I haven't heard back from them yet. My own friends are too nice to believe what a grandmother could have done to her own sons and grandsons.

I also thought about taking them back to my family in China, but my husband will be furiously against it and probably suing me for kidnapping if I do take them.

I hope my struggles and your help for me and my sons would make others to find better way to protect those children at risks before it's too late.

Thanks again, and take care.


Keeptrying


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#360352 - 04/21/11 02:18 AM Re: Keeping My Young Sons Safe [Re: Keeptrying]
1.healing Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 09/10/10
Posts: 261
Loc: NW Ohio
Dear Keeptrying,

You're making assumptions that if you seek help for your sons that it's going to be more harmful to them than being sexually abused by their grandmother and perhaps by their father and uncle too? These people have already taken control of this situation and the more you hesitate to do something pro-active the more harm that comes to your children and the more credibility you lose.

The best advise you were given here was from Didi, and she knows from personal experience. Take your sons to a licensed therapist who specializes in young children who have been sexually abused, a person with this experience will help you and the boys to become safe.

I really encourage you to get the help your boys need, please set aside your unfounded fears and do what is right to save your children and keep them from more harm. You are their only defense against this, 4 year olds can't protect themselves. You need no more proof of the ravages of childhood sexual abuse than the stories of the men here who struggle everyday. How are you going to explain this to your boys when they're here with us in twenty years asking why their mother didn't do something to protect them because she was too afraid to get help?

Gary


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#360419 - 04/21/11 08:59 PM Re: Keeping My Young Sons Safe [Re: 1.healing]
Keeptrying Offline


Registered: 04/07/11
Posts: 50
Gary,

I know you and a few other dear friends have supported me with all you can. And I wish I could take all the pro-active steps to ensure my sons' safety. But the reality is that my T faxed a report to DFCS and I called them as well with a detailed account. The answer I got was that it was not abuse that the 4 year olds got butt naked and their grandma bath them. I've also tried to get a therapist for assessment but yet to be able to contact the one who was recommended by my T (the phone number she gave me was disconnected). The biggest obstacle is that their English is very limited. One can have a simple conversation, and the other can only say a few words. Didi, if you happen to read this post, were you allowed to be with your son when he went to therapies?

One thing really puzzled me was that many of you have come to realize your abuse and try to prevent it from happening to other children. Why did my husband defend his mother for the serious possibility of harming his own sons if he was abused by her when he was young (I only have my own observations and what he told me to support that he was possibly abused by her as noted in my initial post A1-A11)?

I'm not giving up, but I have few allies here at home. Even my own friends thought my husband as nice and generous and probably try to convince me that I'm overreacting.

The only thing I can do is going with my sons when my husband takes them. If I also insist taking them to somewhere else, how is the right decided?

Keeptrying


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#360431 - 04/21/11 10:31 PM Re: Keeping My Young Sons Safe [Re: Keeptrying]
1.healing Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 09/10/10
Posts: 261
Loc: NW Ohio
Dear Keeptrying,

Thank you for making things much clearer, you hadn't shared with us that your therapist contacted DFCS and that you had called them yourself and that you have been trying to get an appointment for an assessment with a therapist for the boys. It makes sense now how nothing is getting done for you. Naturally it's got to be a frustrating and frightening time for you. I feel that way myself and others do as well, we all only want you and the boys to be safe. I hope you understand that we're very concerned and only want what's best for you and your family.

I'm puzzled by your husbands behavior too, from what you've told us of his mother's unusual behavior with the children, all kinds of bells and warning lights should be sounding in his head. I mean even if she's just eccentric and odd, you still don't want your children exposed to that because it violates their healty bounderies and teaches them it's OK for people to be inappropriate with them, and that really can be dangerous.

Why does your husband and Grandma behave as they do is anyone's guess. I don't know why, but like you it makes me uncomfortable and it makes me suspicious. As your name says so well you'll need to keeptrying and to also stay alert. And those odd behaviors of Grandma's need to stop. If a child's mother doesn't like that her children take naps half naked with an adult, or is uncomfortable with an adults comments about her children's genitals, then that behavior needs to cease instead of being defended. I'm sorry that you have to deal with any of this, and wish your husband and his mother showed more respect, maturity and appreciation for your reasonable desire for healthier relationships and behaviors from everyone in this family.

Gary


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#360433 - 04/21/11 10:52 PM Re: Keeping My Young Sons Safe [Re: Keeptrying]
didi Offline


Registered: 07/12/08
Posts: 165
Loc: USA


Hello Keeptrying,

My sister and I met with the therapist first with the children. I was present for EVERY SINGLE ONE OF MY SON'S THERAPY SESSIONS. We spent the first half together, my son was with the therapist for a bit and then I went back into the room to go over what therapy was needed at home.. ripping up newspaper for anger while yelling , blowing fears into a balloon & Popping it and so on.

You could try calling the prosecutors office or child advocacy center to request a behavioral therapist that specifically deals with treating CSA in very young children. They should have a list available.

You really should start a journal with dates, times, incidents, what was said by your husband and so on. I have a binder full of notes, reports, receipts and any other literature. Looking back at it now, I am happy that I had the strength to write down the memories or phrases (triggers & flashbacks) that the children were repeating. This helped with therapy as well. I was able to tell the therapist exactly what was being said and we would work on it in our sessions.

I would definitely search for a qualified therapist asap. Especially if DFCS is involved. The last thing you need is for this situation to get out of control with your children being taken away.

Keep Us Posted,


Didi

_________________________
Raising children who have been loaned to us for a brief moment outranks every other responsibility!

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#360437 - 04/21/11 11:32 PM Re: Keeping My Young Sons Safe [Re: didi]
Still Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/16/07
Posts: 6401
Loc: 2.5 NATO Nations
Keeptrying,

You may also seek-out a family-law attorney or a child addvocate attorney just to discuss having an emergency plan B. If things within the family get heated and you are getting worried about what might happen next, you and the attorney can have an ex-parte order of protection issued by a judge in a matter of hours (if not less).

_________________________
Wishing You Were Here!

The Aftermath Video

The Water Buffalo Song

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#360508 - 04/22/11 11:35 PM Re: Keeping My Young Sons Safe [Re: Still]
Keeptrying Offline


Registered: 04/07/11
Posts: 50
If the assessment turns out to be negative, which I hope, it's going to make my job harder, but at least my kids are unharmed.

In my initial post under A11, my husband did admit to me that he and his brother have many similarities with the signs of emotional incest with their mother after reading a book: "Silently Seduced" which I came across 6 years ago. The physical part is becoming revealing to me as my owns sons were treated inappropriately by her (from what I heard from her own words and what my sons had said. What I didn't hear nor see is still a big question mark) during a short period of four months and maybe a dozen visits. Imaging my husband and his brother were with her most their lives, especially when their father was working far away while they were babies, little boys and adolescents.


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#360682 - 04/24/11 09:58 PM Re: Keeping My Young Sons Safe [Re: Keeptrying]
Keeptrying Offline


Registered: 04/07/11
Posts: 50
I did go with my sons when my husband took them to their grandmother's house.

I also emailed their preschool director about her taking their pants off playing and napping bare bottomed at her house. I told the school that the kids did the same when going bed at home after the visits and it took me a month to get them back to normal. I wanted the director to confirm that it's against the school policy if they do that during their nap at school when they start extended program in Summer since the grandma insisted that there was nothing wrong with it (and DFCS said that it was not abuse when I reported). The reply was that it is definitely not allowed and would get the school into serious troubles. Now at least I can get the authorities involved if she does that again. I'm not sure what the legal term it is, but she is creating behaviors in my sons that are socially not acceptable. Those behaviors would also make my children more vulnerable to other sexual abuse predators.

After weighing my options, I feel that putting the burden of proof on my young sons (like assessment, and what is needed to be done after the assessment either it is negative or positive) is too difficult and lengthy. The children's books I bought and web sites I visited and protection agencies I called all have good information on how to teach children on detecting and telling about inappropriate sexual mistreatments towards them. Even if they understand this complicated subject at this young age and do as instructed,

WHAT HAPPENS AFTER THEY DID TELL? Almost NOTHING.

I was able to read only a fractions of many of your stories, and found out that in many cases it started just as taking clothes off and playing a game or during ordinary activities like bathing. Even if some caring adults did get alert at the early stage before the actual abuses happened, what could they have done to have prevented you from further harms, especially when a family member is involved? As much as I'm trying my best, I can't be with my sons 24/7. I have a health problem that I really need to be away from home for about a month. And I couldn't find any friends who can be take the charge 24/7 while I'm away. I truly have no idea what their grandma would do during my absence, so I have to sacrifice my own health to guard my sons.

It's really ridiculous that all the children protection programs try to teach children and caring adults how to protect them from inappropriate sexual behaviors, but aren't able to do anything until AFTER they become abuse victims. Then what's the meaning of PROTECTION AND PREVENTION???

Keeptrying



Edited by Keeptrying (04/24/11 10:01 PM)

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#360684 - 04/24/11 10:46 PM Re: Keeping My Young Sons Safe [Re: Keeptrying]
Still Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/16/07
Posts: 6401
Loc: 2.5 NATO Nations
There's no (as in NO) doubt what the grandmother is all about. She knows and we all know she is anticipating free rein for that month. It will be then that she kicks the abuse into high-gear.

Have you tried the police dept in the town where the grandmother lives? And I mean go there and not leave until THEY come up with a solution for YOU. Its their damn job to protect them. If you feel you need to bring an attorney to the police dept, do so.

_________________________
Wishing You Were Here!

The Aftermath Video

The Water Buffalo Song

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#360691 - 04/24/11 11:39 PM Re: Keeping My Young Sons Safe [Re: Keeptrying]
didi Offline


Registered: 07/12/08
Posts: 165
Loc: USA
Quote:
WHAT HAPPENS AFTER THEY DID TELL? Almost NOTHING.


I beg to differ, telling IS something and it is HUGE!



Telling was the first step toward healing for my son and nephew.
(Even if the authorities do nothing, this is a big therapeutic step)




Edited by didi (04/24/11 11:41 PM)
_________________________
Raising children who have been loaned to us for a brief moment outranks every other responsibility!

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#360743 - 04/25/11 07:15 PM Re: Keeping My Young Sons Safe [Re: didi]
Keeptrying Offline


Registered: 04/07/11
Posts: 50
didi,

I didn't know any details about how the abuse got started to your son and nephew from your posts. I know for survivors, telling is a huge part of healing.

But my sons are in a different situation. From all the legal and therapeutic consultations I've sought, they can only categorize what their grandmother did as "inappropriate sexual behaviors" which may lead to abuses later if it's not stopped. Therefore my sons are at the stage where many members here had experienced in the playing a game or an ordinary daily activity such as bathing before the serious abuses kicked in. My challenge is how to prevent further abuses from happening since my husband still takes our kids to his mother's house. And I can't keep her away from them. This is contrary to what the books I read to my sons, if they tell, the person who tries to mistreat them will be stopped. Now since she still sees them as usual after my sons did tell, they would assume whatever she does later is OK. It's already a complicated issue for them to understand at this young age. It's much harder to keep them alerted if they continue seeing her.

Many friends here have offered as much help as they could even they themselves are facing hurts and difficulties from their own traumas. But I think the prevention systems out there really lack of the muscles to keep children at risk away from the persons who have already started victimizing them. Before any serious harms are done to them, the only way for me is trying to keep my eyes on my kids as much as possible. But doesn't prevention mean don't wait till it's too late?



Edited by Keeptrying (04/25/11 07:35 PM)

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#365937 - 07/13/11 11:24 PM Re: Keeping My Young Sons Safe - Update [Re: Keeptrying]
Keeptrying Offline


Registered: 04/07/11
Posts: 50
I feel that I owe a huge thank you to every friend here who has supported me with every effort when I first came to these communities. I finally got back the assessment of my sons today and it's generally normal. It may not be totally conclusive since it's based on questionnaires filled out by me and their teachers instead of comprehensive play therapies and interviews due to the language barriers of my sons. But the assessment gave me some assurance that they may turn out to be fine.

Even though looking back at the time that I felt so desperate that no professionals that I've consulted seem to be able to help my boys to prevent further harms (the three therapists all confirmed that my mother-in-law was sexually inappropriate towards my sons but they don't know how to stop her), it seems to me now that simply my bringing up the issue with her and my willingness to take every possible measure as advised by many friends here is enough to put some brakes on her progressive inappropriate behaviors towards them. It's still a long road ahead. My H still makes me to take the kids to see her. But I'm trying in every way to provide them with a healthy social environment and help them to build strong boundaries. And of course, I'm there with them when they see her.

I've learned a lot from many of you, especially on this specific seductive boundary eroding type of abuse. YOU've definitely made a decisive DIFFERENCE for us! Thank you, and may good people be blessed and healed!

KT


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#365938 - 07/13/11 11:29 PM Re: Keeping My Young Sons Safe - Update [Re: Keeptrying]
hopeandtry Offline


Registered: 07/28/10
Posts: 476
Glad to hear the good news, KT. Just keep protecting them and keeping an eye on them. If you want more comprehensive therapy for them in the future, go for it. Hope things go okay for you.


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#366060 - 07/16/11 04:33 AM Re: Keeping My Young Sons Safe [Re: Keeptrying]
katie1205 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 07/03/11
Posts: 48
No sorry. You tell your husband and you tell a mandated reporter and she gets arrested. This is not okay. I don't care if it's his mother. It's not okay. This is how these grown men end up on here like my Adam at 48. Because somebody didn't want to upset somebody or make waves or whatever. They will book her, they will let her go, and they will make her go to court mandated therapy which is where her ass belongs and anti-sexual abuse therapy education. I have been through this in my own family too. There are gov't 1-800s you can call 24/7 and report her. Do it. And if your husband goes over there and decks her, which I doubt, you bail his butt out of jail. No judge is making him serve time for hitting a child molester. He'll probably get a ton of community service.


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#366102 - 07/16/11 11:48 PM Re: Keeping My Young Sons Safe [Re: katie1205]
Still Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/16/07
Posts: 6401
Loc: 2.5 NATO Nations
These are situations where and when dealing with the law is a dice-roll. I've now dealt with an "enlightened" judge who had his head so far up his ___ regarding CSA that he ought to be sent to live on the moon.

Law enforcement is at a minimum as retarded regarding CSA. When family has opposing claims and testimony, the law men default to no-action.

_________________________
Wishing You Were Here!

The Aftermath Video

The Water Buffalo Song

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#366109 - 07/17/11 10:40 AM Re: Keeping My Young Sons Safe [Re: Still]
didi Offline


Registered: 07/12/08
Posts: 165
Loc: USA
I Agree with Robbie... same thing over here.

KT: Keep documenting every thing. Would any or all of the therapists write a statement with their findings? This way you could bring all of your documents to the authorities. It is important to show a history of complaints.

Didi

_________________________
Raising children who have been loaned to us for a brief moment outranks every other responsibility!

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#366141 - 07/17/11 11:36 PM Re: Keeping My Young Sons Safe [Re: didi]
Keeptrying Offline


Registered: 04/07/11
Posts: 50
I haven't yet found an attorney who can help me with the legal issues regarding PROTECTing my sons. I doubt that any law for preventing CSA exists. They told me to show them evidences. Hello!!! Are you telling me to wait and watch for the grandma to further abuse them so that I can have the damn evidences to go to court? What is all the prevention meant for? I called childhelp, narr, d2l, stopitnow, ect ect and the answers were yeh, that should be a huge concern, you should find an attorney to help you with the specifics. The irony is that they don't even have any referrals for any attorneys specialized in CSA, not even the GA's office. For the therapists, the evidences are already there: how she has CSAed her own two sons and how she has started grooming my two sons. They reported to DFCS, and yes the agency has children that have already been CSAed to help with. But my kids just need to wait till more severe abuses to happen to them with some physical marks to show in court, right?

That's why I updated my initial posts that YOU, Rob, Didi, TJ, Gary, Steve, Anthony, Dewey, Napoleon, Morningstar, H4H, Katie (sorry that if I missed anyone) and many others whose posts have supported and helped me more than anyone in the legal system whose sole duty is to protect innocent people especially children. Also another factor that has helped a lot are our friends. They talked to my H and his mother that no matter how she brought up my H and his brother, she just can't do this to my sons. Believe me, I didn't think about making waves. If she continues the way to my boys' devastation, I'm going to make AVALANCHE. And thanks Didi, yes I'm documenting.

It's still many years ahead, but I hope one day that I can come here and tell you all that my sons have grown up safely, thanks for your most generous gifts in life! They may be just two little boys, but for them it's a life that you've helped to make a huge difference. It takes a village to raise a child, and it does.

I hope that I can be any help to anyone here as well. I've never met you, but you're my dearest friends in my heart!

KT


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