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#359391 - 04/12/11 01:02 AM Keeping My Young Sons Safe
Keeptrying Offline


Registered: 04/07/11
Posts: 50
I've had male friends who are close to their mothers since middle school. After meeting with my husband 11 years ago, my whole world has changed, and now I'm trying very hard to keep my four year-old twin boys safe from my mother-in-law. Here is why:

I can not say definitely that my 40 year-old husband and his 47 year-old brother are male survivors of their mother's sexual abuse because neither would admit that. But I found many things abnormal and disturbing about my mother-in-law (She is used in referring to address her) from my own experiences and books I read. I summarize these things in three categories: A - things I learned about my husband A; B - Things about his brother B; C - things that I'm concerned about my twin boys C. And finally my questions are numbered in Qs.

A1. She walks in her adult sons' rooms when they're naked like taking a shower or changing clothes;
A2. A goes lingerie shopping with her, buying her bras and panties. A commented to me that her breasts are big;
A3. A wears her underpants in winters. I remember one pink, one yellow with teddy bears, one green poky dots;
A4. Her hand is on A's lap when they are sitting together;
A5. She walks with A hand-in-hand cross fingered like most lovers do;
A6. She beat A on regular basis when he was young;
A7. A was a bully himself when he was young and beat other kids smaller and weaker than him;
A8. A has told me many times that as long as he could remember like 2-3 years old, he's always touched and fondled girls of his age, later had sex with many girls without meaningful relationships;
A9. A was addicted to porns and burned maybe a thousand adult DVDs but seldom watched those;
A10. I found that A is very different from men that I dated before: demanding, manipulative, putting me down, accusing me for things that I didn't do, and cursing while in other times can be sweet and charming. I married him for reasons too long to be detailed here.
A11. When I discussed item A1-A5 with A, he was furious. Later I came across a book "silently seduced when parents make their children partners." I was so shocked and hid it from him. He found and read the book while I was away and told me that the emotional incest with his mother was true for him and his brother. He felt there was nothing he could do about it. If I ask if he would try professional help, he'd make my life like hell.

Here is what I know about my brother-in-law B:
B1. He lives with his parents and is with his mother all the time wherever she goes;
B2. For the 11 years that I knew A, or even before that since 1997 when B came to the US, B never dated anyone;
B3. B doesn't even have a male friend;
B4. B got married once after his parents and A immigrated to the US and had a daughter. He divorced and came to the US when his daughter was two. Now he has abandoned her and never admits to anyone he has a daughter. I've never seen any pictures of her in their house. There were unopened letters from the girl left in house remaining there for a long time.
B5. I rarely saw B talks with his dad. His parents go back to China every two years. Several years ago I was check calling history for a phone number that I forgot from an internet long distance service company which we all share the same account. I surprisingly found calls everyday from B to his mother. For the entire four months they were in China, B called her everyday, sometimes three times a day, and talking up to an hour. During the same period, he called his ex-wife and daughter twice, and one was on Chinese New Year, about 10 minutes. I was so wondering what a 40 year-old man has so much to talk to his mother that I printed out the calling records.
B5. I once unexpectedly walked in a guest bedroom in my house and found B was lying together with his mother taking a nap when they came to visit my baby twins.

Note: for both A and B, their father was working far away during most of their childhood and adolescence years.

I have struggle with issues that are so difficult with A emotionally meddling with his mother (physically I really don't know how to find out unless he speaks himself). But now my most urgent concerns are my twins. A and I took them to live with my family in China for the past two years so they could help us raising my sons. we moved back home last December for them to go to preschool. I suspect my mother-in-law has also physically sexually abused A and B after my husband started taking my twins to her house on Sundays without me:

C1. C came home from their grandparents house and took off their pants butt naked going to bed since that's what grandma did when they napped there with her (She came here today and said one of the boy's underwear was wet, and she took it off. But why didn't she just put on his outfit pants? She said it was them who didn't want to wear pants. As far as I know, that never happened before. She added there was nothing wrong with them sleeping butt naked since that was what she did with A and B when they were boys);
C2. She talked to me one time (we rarely have calls and conversations) that they were jumping up and down on her bed butt naked like it was so much fun. It's cold winter time by the way.
C3. The only thing she ever commented on them was to tell me how their penis and balls look like;
C4. For the past several visits, she washed my sons' anal area because she said they were ichy there. Now my sons believe that their rectums are itchy (both of them at the same time) only on Sunday afternoons when they visit their grandma who washes their bottom on every visit even though they take a bath everyday at home (I went with them last time they visited her, no itchy at all. Actually it's been a whole month since their last visit to her, one of the boys complained about some itch only once. But certainly it was not a Sunday afternoon, and certainly not both of them were itchy at the same time).

I wish that I could find out more about A and B's relationship with their mother. But their house is in such secrecy and there are rarely any other visitors. Unless A and B speak up, which I doubt, no one ever knows what happened with their mother sexually when they were young boys. My questions are:

Q1. Is there a pattern of sexual abuse by this woman when you connect A, B and C together?
Q2. I had hired a nanny when my babies were 8, 9 months old. She was 60 years old, and later I found out that she took out her big breasts and let the baby boys to play with them. If it were a man who let a little girl touches him, it's definitely a crime. But for a woman, is it just an innocent play or comfort? For my understanding, if a mother or a family member shows and let her sons and grandsons playing her breasts on continuing basis, it's really a powerful way to control them. Am I right?
Q3. I bought books and started to teach my sons that their body is private that no one else, not mommy nor daddy nor grandma nor uncle could touch their private parts for fun or play some games. But my mother-in-law is so sneaky and made them to believe that they need to be washed (fondled?) by her. I read some men molest young girls when they're asleep. What if she does the same when they nap at her house?
Q4. I talked with my husband about not letting her mother take off our sons pants and wash them at her house. He said OK. But I doubt she would listen and he would stand up to her.
I tried to find reasons not letting my sons go there, but my husband insisted taking them. If I tell him the real reason, he'd be so furious. I thought about going there together with them, but he would not like that either, because Sunday afternoon is their family time. What else can I do?

Thank you very much for your time, and help!



Edited by Keeptrying (07/13/11 11:26 PM)

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#359397 - 04/12/11 02:03 AM Re: Keeping My Young Sons Safe [Re: Keeptrying]
Still Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/16/07
Posts: 6367
Loc: 2 NATO Nations
OK...THAT is one very fkd-up woman who created some very submissive sons whom one is putting his mother's sick demands above the safety of his sons.

Not ONE element you describe above about A and B and the mother is normal. It all points to mental defects associated with being a child molester.

Elements C1, C2, C3 and C4 are grounds to call the police (like yesterday) whether your husband freaks out or not. I'm only concerned for the boys safety...not about ANYONE'S hurt feelings or damaged relationships.

Get the boys to a therapist right away (right away) and he or she will get a ton of actionable information out of them. The therapist has a duty to report the abuse, so if you don't want to dial the phone, the therapist will.

These are your children. Its your job to keep them out of this psycho's grasp. Keep them away from her no matter what the price to you. They will be devastated for the remainder of their lives if she has her way.

_________________________
Jesus Loves The Hell Outta Me!

Still's Globs

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#359399 - 04/12/11 04:14 AM Re: Keeping My Young Sons Safe [Re: Still]
1.healing Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 09/10/10
Posts: 261
Loc: NW Ohio
Dear Keeptrying,

These are not normal things you describe and even cultural differences do not account for these unusual behaviors, odd and wrong are the same in all languages and across all cultures. I think Rob has offered excellent advice. Especially since you are obviously very alone in the protection of these innocent boys. You need strong allies and protection and the best way to access that will be through professionals. You also need to contact your own family to let them know of your situation, you are likely going to face some powerful opposition and you are going to need their support.

We here realize how difficult this situation is and admire your courage to keep these innocent boys safe. What you do today to protect them will be much easier, as difficult as it is, than the consequences in the future of them being sexually molested and abused by this very sick woman who has already begun to harm them.

Please, stay in touch here and know you are supported by a community of people who really do understand and care about what happens to you and your family.

Gary

_________________________
"It's never too late to be what you might have been."

George Elliot

"You cannot find peace by avoiding life."

Virginia Woolf

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#359426 - 04/12/11 11:05 AM Re: Keeping My Young Sons Safe [Re: 1.healing]
Still Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/16/07
Posts: 6367
Loc: 2 NATO Nations
Keeptrying,

I appologize for coming on so strong in my first reply. I went into panic-mode as i do when children are being hurt. I lost much sleep last night worrying from your situation. You truly are issolated and in a very tough situation. In know what its like to be trapped like that. I wish we could lower a helicopter to pick-up you and the twins, but we can't.

You truly are brave and I do worry for you as well. Continue to be the strong woman and mother you are. I realize you are doing the best you can under horrid circumstances. I will be praying for you.

_________________________
Jesus Loves The Hell Outta Me!

Still's Globs

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#359428 - 04/12/11 11:39 AM Re: Keeping My Young Sons Safe [Re: 1.healing]
Keeptrying Offline


Registered: 04/07/11
Posts: 50
Thanks, Rob and Gary. There was a knot in my stomach when I read your replies. My worst worries are not me imagining things. My children are already in harm's way. I'll stop my husband taking them to his mother's house right away. I'll never leave my boys with her and her family alone any more.

I shared the information about my husband and his brother with my therapist while I was pregnant and after I gave birth to my twins. But she didn't say yes or no about whether their mother had sexually abused them based on what I noted in my post. My husband and I were also seeing a family psychologist at the same for many difficult issues in our marriage. I went back to her last week and she recommended this site to me.

My sons are very close to their dad, and like their uncle (my brother-in-law). I don't know how to explain to them what happened to their dad and uncle, and how our life would be changed if police and government agencies get involved. We came back to the US only 4 months ago, and their English is just picking up. I don't know whether they'll be terrified going to therapies about something so bad.

I'll work with the family therapist to find help. Please share with me anything so that I can be prepared. If I call the police, what evidences should I have? Besides the changes in my boys' behavior like going to bed without undies, and what my sons and mother-in-law told me, I don't have anything solid to show. My father-in-law, brother-in-law and my husband may have witnessed some of the things she did with them, but I think they'd rather die than testify against her.


Keeptrying



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#359430 - 04/12/11 12:09 PM Re: Keeping My Young Sons Safe [Re: Keeptrying]
Still Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/16/07
Posts: 6367
Loc: 2 NATO Nations
Keeptrying,

You are correct about your evaluation of the evidence as it currently exists. If you proceed as things currntly are, it will all blow-up in your face. So I agree with your plan of actively keeping them safe and segregated from the mother. This is a good and effective interim (and maybe long-term solution).

That is why I suggested a licensed therapist for reporting. In most states, they have inherent authority and thus can create statements of existing crime or child welfare concerns. They can set protective actions into motion.


So, given all this, I suggest going into "Discovery and Research" mode. Use the internet to learn all you can about how these things work in your state. Talk to social service people, talk to therapists, maybe talk to the sex-offender District Attorney in your jursidiction. Get yourself as educated and armed with as much information as possible so that when the hammer falls (at your choosing) you will know exactly how things will procede.

Find out the law about YOU recording conversations with your children. You can interview your chidlren about what they have experienced. Wether or not its admissable in court may be another thing. A recording of their accounts may be enough for the District Attorney to take action. If you do record things, keep the digital files safely stored. Maybe on a memory-stick.

But either way, you can gather a lot of very valuable and powerful information by talking to those people who deal with this stuff on a daily, professional basis.

We ARE here for you.



Edited by Robbie Brown (04/12/11 12:11 PM)
_________________________
Jesus Loves The Hell Outta Me!

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#359431 - 04/12/11 12:23 PM Re: Keeping My Young Sons Safe [Re: Keeptrying]
RecoveryReady1 Offline


Registered: 12/05/10
Posts: 433
Keeptrying,
This is a classic case of a predator.....they have this kind of power over others.....Don't let her steal your boys away.
Get the help you need ....find the help you can trust......
They depend on you......These men are too afraid of her to save the children......This makes them predatory as well....complicit.
The children are not safe with them if they will not protect them...
I am praying for you and your boys.....that you find the help and support you need.....It is out there....and you have to get it.
Love and support
Steve


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#359433 - 04/12/11 01:24 PM Re: Keeping My Young Sons Safe [Re: RecoveryReady1]
1.healing Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 09/10/10
Posts: 261
Loc: NW Ohio
Dear Keeptrying,

I'm glad that you already have the support of a therapist and trust that she will continue to guide you in the right direction with the right people. No more Sunday visits to Grandma's house!, especially not without you present, you are the only one who will keep your boys safe, the men in this family are too under the influence of this predatory woman and can't be relied on to protect the children.

Your concern about the "authorities" becoming involved is noted, but you must also realize that this may become a necessity if the children cannot be protected from their other family members. I still encourage you to contact your own family so that you have their support and hope that you have trusted friends here in the States you can rely on for support as well?

You're in this communities best hopes and prayers, you're a brave woman doing the right thing and it's appreciated by people who understand and care about the children's safety and yours as well.

Gary

_________________________
"It's never too late to be what you might have been."

George Elliot

"You cannot find peace by avoiding life."

Virginia Woolf

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#359435 - 04/12/11 01:30 PM Re: Keeping My Young Sons Safe [Re: Keeptrying]
CruxFidelis Offline


Registered: 06/16/10
Posts: 486
Loc: NJ
Hi Keeptrying,

This isn't true for all survivors, but I have noticed that acknowledging the seriousness of another person's abuse can be easier than getting angry about your own abuse. Perhaps if you take your boys to a good child psychologist who is skilled at getting children to talk about their problems, and the therapist reports the abuse to the authorities, your husband might begin to see his mother for the predator that she is. Perhaps his protective instincts as a father will kick in.

I can't promise that it won't be painful for you to go through, Keeptrying, but your twins are lucky to have a GOOD MOM who cares about them enough to protect them from any continued abuse. They need to know that it is not their fault that they were abused. It might make them feel hurt to know that they can no longer spend time with their grandmother, but when they get older, they will know that at least they have a mother who cared about their well-being enough to take them out of that situation. Remember to take care of yourself as a mother, too. It is not your fault if you could not recognize their grandmother as the sexual predator that she was, but now that you know, you have the responsibility of keeping her out of their lives.

_________________________
“If a man wishes to be sure of the road he treads on, he must close his eyes and walk in the dark.”

- Saint John of the Cross

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#359448 - 04/12/11 05:49 PM Re: Keeping My Young Sons Safe [Re: CruxFidelis]
Keeptrying Offline


Registered: 04/07/11
Posts: 50
The things on my A+B list have been on my mind for years and I tried to get verified by sharing them with several therapists but got neither a yes nor a no. Before coming to this community, I found very few sources to learn about sexual abuses of young boys. As a woman I only have my own judgment that I'd never do any of those things to my own sons because it is so wrong! Even putting my hand on an older child's lap is so violating his boundaries, making him so uncomfortable and confusing. My husband brushed aways my concerns and said all those things are not a big deal. And he made sure that I won't bring it up again.

My heart is heavy. When I noticed the things on List C, I thought those are things leading to abuse. I don't know how much damage she's done to them so far, and how could they get recovered at such a young age?

Thank you all, for your support, love, and most important, advices!


Keeptrying



Edited by Keeptrying (04/20/11 01:34 PM)

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