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#358779 - 04/06/11 11:10 AM Imposters!!
Still Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/16/07
Posts: 6401
Loc: 2.5 NATO Nations
I realized the word today...the label. Its the label that I missed probably out of subcontious avoidance. So many posts here in F&F and elsewhere describe the surprise we spring on our loved ones, employers, friends, etc. We did what we thought was right. We did what we thought we needed to do to survive. We were dealt the hand we have. We HAVE the hand we were dealt, and nothing more. Were we to lay-down and die? Some of us did that (some say 50% of us die). To survive, we need radical tachtics that allow us to move, act and survive similar to the normals. We have to become imposters. We become imposters in so many modes and settings. We are thought of as found-out imposters by our spouses and F&F as soon as we disclose.

I don't think its a character flaw, but its a label that stings terribly. It stings all those who are involved.

I'm sorry to all those I stung as the imposter I am. I had no right. There's no place for the rejects, and I think the millions of victims who don't disclose know this very well.

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Wishing You Were Here!

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#358789 - 04/06/11 02:48 PM Re: Imposters!! [Re: Still]
Disappointed Offline


Registered: 08/11/09
Posts: 540
Loc: U.S.A.
By golly, Robbie, this is annoying. Instead of looking at it this way, please consider this viewpoint:

first of all, who cares about employers? I've employed lots of people that didn't work out (lazy, etc.), and after a few days, their true nature revealed itself and they were gone.

But marriage. Think about this. The "deal" is, you live with me, I live with you, the REST OF OUR LIVES I have to rely on you, and you have to rely on me, for where we're going to live, eat, wear, drive, retirement if we get there, vacations if we have them, children, whether to have them, then how to raise them, taking out loans, paying back loans, socializing, not socializing, having sex and affection or not having those things.

You are trusting the person you're going to marry is going to be a good fit with you, or try to be, for THE REST OF YOUR LIFE. If you don't know who they really are, how can you make a sound judgment on whether they are the right choice for you?

I realize, I understand, you men are doing the best you can with the hand you were dealt. But to a non-survivor, the real point is, if they had known these really important things about you, maybe they would have kept looking, and put all their eggs in another basket. They're entitled to make that decision with as much knowledge as you have. Marriage is a BIG BIG BIG deal.

I don't consider you marrying survivors imposters. Just, you don't reveal all the salient facts.... It's even more important than someone who doesn't tell you that they're $150,000 in debt for credit cards, they've had 2 bankruptcies, and mom really owns their home. What a mess to walk into. And it happens!

If you're just dating, okay, but marriage is a whole different ball of wax.

CSA or any other big thing, needs to be shared before marriage.

And when it's not, divorce is typically the next step after the closet cleaning starts.

_________________________
Female.

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#358794 - 04/06/11 04:24 PM Re: Imposters!! [Re: Disappointed]
Disappointed Offline


Registered: 08/11/09
Posts: 540
Loc: U.S.A.
And besides, you're making a big assumption about being rejected. I've known my friend for a few years. He's hurt my feelings plenty. But I have not rejected him. I'm sure, sometimes he wishes I would.... I'm a real pain....

Maybe some will reject you. We are ALL rejected by someone. ALL of us. But some women, if they know, will have compassion and try to understand. Give us SOME credit.

Unfortunately, my friend continues to date - and marry - women he doesn't tell. Then, when he acts out, golly gee whiz, they're hurt and upset and angry and call him names, and then they leave.

And like you, he just wanted to live as typical and normal a life as he could. He didn't trust them. He should try it some time.

Maybe one day I'll convince him to trust one of these vanilla girls he dates. But part of it, I'm sure, is that he wants to be seen as a normal masculine man. And I'd want that, too. he doesn't want to be seen as damaged goods. But they need to know. And they will eventually anyway.



Edited by Disappointed (04/06/11 04:27 PM)
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#358820 - 04/06/11 09:53 PM Re: Imposters!! [Re: Disappointed]
hopeandtry Offline


Registered: 07/28/10
Posts: 476
"...divorce is typically the next step after the closet cleaning starts."

I don't agree with this statement. Not everyone who discloses is headed for divorce. I would not leave someone just because they disclosed and I would not even leave someone necessarily because they have major problems after disclosing. Yes, in the end it is wrong to withhold some things, but I don't necessarily consider it wrong to withhold CSA. If the person is cheating or has a porn addiction or thinks they are gay, then yes I would feel betrayed, but if they simply didn't tell me they were abused and have issues as a result, I don't see that as some terrible thing. CSA is really hard to deal with, obviously, and I would hope a man would trust me enough to disclose. In any case, not every situation is the same and not every disclosure brings with it some terrible news of adultery or whatever. I just don't think we need to be lumping everything together...everyone's situation is different.


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#358821 - 04/06/11 09:55 PM Re: Imposters!! [Re: hopeandtry]
hopeandtry Offline


Registered: 07/28/10
Posts: 476
Oh, and Robbie...I don't think "imposter" is a good term to use. How about SURVIVOR? We use that term here for a reason. You do what you have to in order to survive sometimes. That doesn't make those things "right" necessarily especially if they hurt someone else, but like you said...it's an explanation, not an excuse. I get it. I get that survivors do the best they can most of the time. As long as a survivor allows me my feelings, I can generally handle it. The thing that would cross the line with me is not allowing me to feel angry or hurt. I can understand and feel compassion yet hurt at the same time.


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#358823 - 04/06/11 10:02 PM Re: Imposters!! [Re: hopeandtry]
Disappointed Offline


Registered: 08/11/09
Posts: 540
Loc: U.S.A.
Hope for Him,
I stand corrected.

Thanks,
D.

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#358828 - 04/06/11 10:36 PM Re: Imposters!! [Re: Disappointed]
Still Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/16/07
Posts: 6401
Loc: 2.5 NATO Nations
With pain on tap, I'm kind of stuck with this view right now. Pain like this is a blinder.

_________________________
Wishing You Were Here!

The Aftermath Video

The Water Buffalo Song

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#358838 - 04/06/11 11:41 PM Re: Imposters!! [Re: Still]
hopeandtry Offline


Registered: 07/28/10
Posts: 476

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#358841 - 04/07/11 01:04 AM Re: Imposters!! [Re: hopeandtry]
hannah7 Offline


Registered: 02/18/10
Posts: 30
I have to agree with hope4him and by the way, awesome lyrics, awesome song! I think we are all 'imposters' to some degree. And a wife is apt to get lots of shocks post-wedding! But, then so does husband and none of it has to do with CSA!

Lots of victims of CSA or ASA or not able to face the harsh realities of what they went through until they are in their latter years, when life either crashes in on them because memories have come up and out, or when life slows down enough for them to listen to that voice that has been screaming and crying inside them for years.

For us, I feel it was no ones fault. I can not blame my mate for not telling me before we were married. We were both young, 'in love'and had not learned the value of such vulnerability. He was a tough guy and I only learned of things so gradually I wouldn't have thought to pull it all together at that time and call it anything but a difficulty in our already shaky marriage. We didn't have a label for it then nor were we educated in matters that pertained to CSA. I don't think anyone was until recently as men are finally speaking up in numbers to let the world know: yes, it happens to guys too! So, when we got married we weren't thinking: Now what do I need to tell my wife or husband -to -be that might damage us if I don't. We weren't thinking of that at all. If it was something that we had identified in our lives, I bet neither one of us would have been 'ready or able' at that time to 'tell anyone.' Unfair or not, those are the hard facts; the way we were, and we did not know the value of speaking out about it. It was to be hidden, a deep shame and pain that we thought no one would want to know. The shame might have been so deep with some that they especially couldn't tell their future mates. The trust thing takes time to build up to where one feels safe enough to disclose. Since some haven't even been able to admit it to themselves, it's no wonder that wives and girl friends wouldn't know about it.

I would daresay that was the case with you Robbie, unless I am way off base, that you were caught in that time segment where we just didn't know what we know now. If I am wrong, I apologize for any wrong assumptions on my part.

I'm not trying to give an excuse for not telling your mate everything, I'm just giving the facts of the time era and how things were 'back then.' Gosh, do I feel like I just aged myself!

I have only begun to identify my own issue and try to help myself because I too am a CSA person. See, I won't use victim cause of my pride and anger, and I won't use survivor because I have just began my journey into hell. I hope my husband doesn't book on me now because of the tremors and aftershocks that this is causing right now. At least, I am educating myself, learning from every possible place I can what happens to people like us...so I am going easy on myself.....

The long and short of all I'm trying to say is, Rob,you need to go easy on yourself! You have been through hell. It seems like things are never going to pan out for you at times, but they will! Hang on! The sun comes up everyday. It's like we get a brand new second chance each day.
Just my penny's worth:)

Waiting for Him to make all things new....!

_________________________
And again and again Jesus said: It is I, I that you love, I that you enjoy, I that you serve. It is I that you long for, I that you desire, I that you mean. It is I that am enough for you. (Julian of Norwich)

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#358871 - 04/07/11 08:16 AM Re: Imposters!! [Re: hannah7]
SunnyGirl Offline


Registered: 07/13/10
Posts: 79
I agree with Hope and Hannah. I wouldn't blame someone for not disclosing his SA to me before marriage. There are many men who may not even remember CSA until much later in life or maybe he does remember but it is too painful to deal with now. Not realizing the long-term impacts it will have (who among us are psychologists?), he compartmentalizes those feelings and puts them out of his mind. Someone who has done that to cope isn't to blame.

I don't like the analogy to someone who has run up tons of debt and fails to disclose that to a future spouse. Someone who has a spending habit like that has chosen to be irresponsible. Men who have suffered CSA or ASA are victims of someone else's cruelty. They have not chosen that path and should not be made to feel that they are tarnished goods that no one would want because they were abused and are still dealing with those impacts.

I know Disappointed retracted her earlier statement, but for the survivors, I think it's worth letting them hear another voice say that I don't agree that the obvious next step after disclosure is divorce. Hopefully the next step is counseling -- for both the survivor and his spouse -- so they can work through these issues both individually and together.

_________________________
"When one door of happiness closes, another opens, but often we look so long at the closed door that we do not see the one that has been opened for us." - H. Keller

"Change & growth take place when a person has risked himself & dares to become involved w/ experimenting w/ his own life." - H. Otto

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