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#358142 - 03/30/11 10:47 PM Re: Conditonal Love [Re: SunnyGirl]
An Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 12/24/04
Posts: 151
Loc: usa
Originally Posted By: SunnyGirl
I often think of things in terms of being the soundtrack to my life. What songs do I remember at certain points in my life? As I read this post, it is hard not to imagine a theme song that accompanies it. To me it is "Grenade" by Bruno Mars, Grenade :


yes re Soundtracks/ music of all kinds, voices of many souls......
you gow====
Gave you all I had
And you tossed it in the trash
You tossed it in the trash, you did


I wasn't sure there if your answer Sunny G was in response to my multiperspectives but i super agree w/ your intro but have differenct percetion of part two--

To give me all your love is all I ever asked,

FOR ME THAT WAS DIFFERENT- I'd say it was "to give YOU all the love you need is all i ever asked

and to Give ME all the love I need- - well that'sMY primary mission , no w
Cause what you don't understand is

I’d catch a grenade for ya (yeah, yeah, yeah)
Throw my hand on a blade for ya (yeah, yeah, yeah)
I’d jump in front of a train for ya (yeah, yeah , yeah)
You know I'd do anything for ya (yeah, yeah, yeah)


but how would that help him?? earnest question.

Oh, oh
I would go through all this pain,
Take a bullet straight through my brain,
Yes, I would die for ya baby;
But you won't do the same

I know that seems unfair to think that way. I know there are reasons for his behavior -- reasons for why he felt he had to walk away and why he thought that was for my own good. When we were together, he was a different person -- not this automaton that is emotionless and detached. He was loving, showed emotion, and his friends and family described him as never being happier than he was with me. But then I decided to look out for me and not give up everything for him, and ultimately, it all fell apart.

Recently, someone who doesn't know the whole situation (about the CSA) said to me that it just sounded like he wasn't ready to commit to me. In the most basic terms, that is it. It doesn't necessarily matter why, but ultimately, he just is not at a point where he can commit to me.

i so agree with the profoundness in that above understanding

As a result, I find myself on a path not of my own choosing because I had thought my life was with him. But that does not mean I am without power. Maybe life is not taking me where I thought it would, but I still can control much about the direction I'm headed. This same person who gave me some advice recently sent me an email. It had nothing to do with my current situation but I found his signature line so compelling. It said:
"You cannot teach a man anything; you can only help him to find it within himself."


like the quote too- & I'd claim in too with You cannot teach a Woman anything; you can only........"

tired, . need to sleep smile Hope and Healing, An



Edited by An (03/30/11 10:48 PM)

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#358145 - 03/30/11 11:19 PM Re: Conditonal Love [Re: An]
SunnyGirl Offline


Registered: 07/13/10
Posts: 79
I guess my situation may be a bit different than some supporters. I've never been the co-dependent type, which in part is the reason I think things fell apart with my ex. I looked out for me and refused to sacrifice everything for him. I had my own aspirations and goals in life and couldn't give it up for someone who wasn't willing to commit to me. We had conversations about marriage and sometimes he spoke in theory about marrying, but ultimately, he was afraid. He asked me whether I could ever be okay with knowing he would always need to hold back a part of himself because the abuse prevented him from being able to fully love me -- he had to hold back to protect himself.

I wanted him to fully love me like I loved him. It is not to say that I actually would give up everything for him. I did not. But I allowed myself to fully love him and when we were together, he blossomed. He grew. He felt emotion and allowed himself to be vulnerable. People who knew him the best said they'd never seen him happier. During that time, it was easy for me to discount the damage the abuse caused because he seemed "okay." Yet he could not commit to me. Ultimately, I could not give up everything in my life to move away with him without a commitment. Without me in his day-to-day life, he retreated behind the walls of protection established during his childhood. Shortly after that, he called it quits despite all his prior assurances that we were in this for the long-haul.

Therefore, to me, this song does not exemplify me actually making these sacrifices for him. Rather, it speaks to the extent of my love for him -- I loved him with my whole being, but he couldn't let himself love me that much. All I ever asked him for was to love me with all he had and he couldn't do that. That hurts, but I cannot force him to go where he is not ready.

_________________________
"When one door of happiness closes, another opens, but often we look so long at the closed door that we do not see the one that has been opened for us." - H. Keller

"Change & growth take place when a person has risked himself & dares to become involved w/ experimenting w/ his own life." - H. Otto

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#358162 - 03/31/11 02:56 AM Re: Conditonal Love [Re: SunnyGirl]
Julia Offline


Registered: 11/05/08
Posts: 59
Sunny Girl,

Before my relationship with my Survivor, I didn't see myself as the co-dependent type. I divorced when I was 20 and with my baby girl in arms, I moved to a new state to start a new life. I divorced a successful man(12 years my senior) and walked away from a beautiful home and financial security. I didn't ask for alimony but I did take child support and banked what I could ... my daughter will be a junior in college next fall.

I don't want to speak for all the significant others here but I am speaking for myself when I say, my friend wasn't always emotionless. He was loving, affectionate and fun. Even towards the end of our relationship there were times the man I fell in love with would "show up". Sometimes he'd turn on music and dance with me in the living room while he sung to me. And I would hold his face and say, "there's my Sweetheart". I knew about his csa early on but didn't realize how it would effect our relationship later.

By the time he started having flashbacks, I was already in. It was too late because we did have a life together. Some of the women here have married or have a commitment with their Survivors... some have children before the issues hit full force. That is where it gets tricky. Knowing the man they are with and/or are married to, may or may not be underneath the lying raging maniac or worse (in my opinion) the emotionless stranger that seems to have replaced their loved one.

You learn all you can about why they are doing the unthinkable to you because you trusted them, you had trusted your own judgement and there has to be a reason for why this is happening. And there is. So now everything you thought you knew about love is put to the test. I always believed that when you love someone and they are hurting, you don't leave them all alone. You grab hold of them and you love them and you stay.

There were times he pushed me away and who knows... if he would have stayed gone it may have been easier. Maybe if we hadn't been in each others day-to-day life one of us would have ended it and it wouldn't have gone on for two more years. But he didn't go away, I had to walk away.

By the end I did realize I was in a co-dependent relationship with him. I also realized that someone can betray you in just about every way possible, they can break your heart and damage your own ability to trust and you can still feel love for them. I also feel that in ways I am more compassionate, more aware of the evil that exsits but also of the courage and hope... of the forgiveness that human beings are capable of. I have learned never to say never. Sometimes the very best life lessons are learned during your most difficult times.

I have stated before that the man who claimed to know nothing of love taught me more about love than anyone I ever knew. I still stand by that.

Love,
Julia


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#358169 - 03/31/11 08:21 AM Re: Conditonal Love [Re: Julia]
SunnyGirl Offline


Registered: 07/13/10
Posts: 79
Julia,
Thank you for starting this thread. I find your responses so insightful.

I, too, feel I have learned more about love from this man than from anyone else I've ever known. The irony of learning so much from a man who claims he cannot completely love is not lost on me.

It was my love for him that led me to this site and on this journey to learn about CSA so I could understand why he was reacting in a way that seemed irrational to me. I was willing to walk into the dark world of CSA if it meant helping him, but he made the choice to walk away from me rather than face his past. Instead of working on this together, I have been learning about CSA on my own to bring some sense to what happened. His reaction to leave was such a shock to me because for the several years we were together, he hid the pain so well. It wasn't like there was a moment here and there where he was fun and seemed happy. The moments of sadness were the things that were few and far between and were often just offhand remarks about movies that were sad and how he could identify with them. He did such a good job at hiding the pain that he didn't let me see the crisis he was in until it was too late.

I know now that his choice to leave me is about control (and also protection -- of himself and of me) and his reaction has become easier to understand, but that understanding doesn't bring with it relief from wishing things could have worked out otherwise.

We have not spoken in months. As much as I tried to convince him that he could heal, my words fell on deaf ears. I know now that the only thing I can control is me, so I have been pushing myself very hard to do a lot of soul searching. Only I will know when I am able to trust or love again -- not my friends, not my family. The situation is the same for my ex -- only he can say when he is ready to deal with his past -- that is not for me to decide.

SunnyGirl

_________________________
"When one door of happiness closes, another opens, but often we look so long at the closed door that we do not see the one that has been opened for us." - H. Keller

"Change & growth take place when a person has risked himself & dares to become involved w/ experimenting w/ his own life." - H. Otto

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#358173 - 03/31/11 09:05 AM Re: Conditonal Love [Re: SunnyGirl]
earlybird Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/17/10
Posts: 1007
Loc: WA USA
Beautifully said Sunnygirl and unfortunately on many levels spot on. If I may one thing you said might be more perspective than factual:

“my words fell on deaf ears”

I have no doubt that this is how it feels but the very fact that he moved away from you, to me, would suggest he was hearing and what he was hearing was too painful to contend with. Though, sadly, you may never see the benefits of your love and support for your CSA loved one does not mean he did not hear you or will not benefit from the immense love you have and continue to give. Earlybird

_________________________
Balanced (My goal)

There is symmetry
In self-reflection
Life exemplified
Grace personified

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#358181 - 03/31/11 09:49 AM Re: Conditonal Love [Re: earlybird]
worldscentre Offline


Registered: 02/09/11
Posts: 36
Loc: Ireland
Julia,

you said 'I always believed that when you love someone and they are hurting, you don't leave them all alone. You grab hold of them and you love them and you stay'.

I only recently realised I thought the same. When things got bad I'd think to myself if I love him a little more it'll be ok, instead of getting angry at him and knowing it was ok to be angry. My love smothered him, he needed me to confront him but I didn't. Its a big regret. Although I am certainly learning to do so now!! And in a good and constructive manner.


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#358193 - 03/31/11 01:01 PM Re: Conditonal Love [Re: worldscentre]
hopeandtry Offline


Registered: 07/28/10
Posts: 476
"I have stated before that the man who claimed to know nothing of love taught me more about love than anyone I ever knew. I still stand by that."

Okay, that just about made me cry. That's exactly how I feel. Not that he himself taught me how to love, but him being in my life (and of course my willingness to learn) has taught me more about love than I ever thought possible. And just the fact that he is an amazing person and I never had a clue that I could love someone like that...well, I guess he DID teach me about love. So true.


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#358292 - 04/01/11 11:05 AM Re: Conditonal Love [Re: hopeandtry]
Lost Spark Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 12/04/04
Posts: 73
Loc: Chicago, IL
"I have stated before that the man who claimed to know nothing of love taught me more about love than anyone I ever knew. I still stand by that."

I don't think words have ever really hit me as hard as these... And as those of An.

An,

what you wrote. Just made me stop in my tracks of mourning, grieving and questioning as to 'why?' and made me say to myself, "now I see..."

You're completely right. I have no unconditional love for myself. In fact, I have always had my own Identity problems (not sexually, but just about who I am, what my purpose is and so on..) Whatever little identity I DID have, I brought into our marriage. A Survivor married me, hiding his sexual identity issues, burying them and hoping that he could figure them out along the way... He brought me to the Altar with confusion. That makes me furious!

And so, I brought myself in and immersed in 'being there' for him, being his 'savior', his 'angel' (as he once put it), his best friend and loving him no matter what. Unfortunately, I lost myself and we both went spiraling down.. He's been taking me down with him. And on top, he's lied, cheated and shut me out. It's like a process and he's completing it now with telling me he's Gay. If all other aspects such as his abuse, acting out and other issues haven't been resolved, how can he just declare he is Gay now. I don't think it makes sense, but it's a whole other thread.

Everyone around me (or as it has been described to me, I'm in a glass house and they're all looking in on us) has told me that I have become his 'punching bag' for all his pent up emotions and unresolved issues. I let myself get there, sadly. They all see him as just being self-destructive, spiraling and needing much, much therapy. So much more there, and I can't do anything without helping myself first.

CSA has pretty much destroyed our marriage, our friendship and, ultimately, me. I can see that now. Will I ever come back as a friend or whatever, I don't know.

I cannot help him, without helping myself first. And ultimately, will I want to help him later on anymore? Do I deserve these confusions, questioning tendencies if he likes/loves me at all? Is that what I deserve in this world? Or more?

I'm in therapy now but something just turned on in my head today.. Thank you An. I think you helped me 'heal' a piece of me right now.

And all you beautiful Partners/Spouses, stay strong and DO NOT lose yourself.

Lost Spark

_________________________
"When I was 5 years old, my mother always told me that happiness was the key to life. When I went to school, they asked me what I wanted to be when I grew up. I wrote down ‘happy.’ They told me I didn’t understand the assignment, and I told them they didn’t understand life." - John Lennon

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#358307 - 04/01/11 12:57 PM close [Re: SunnyGirl]
cantinsr
Unregistered


close


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