I am an ex-wife of an 'survivor' that never could face what happened to him. After 20 years of a no-conncection/little-intimacy marriage- he finally admitted the abuse-- but refused counseling/marriage therapy, etc.
My counselor said there was chance he would choose to keep the secret than face it-- and he did. I am 3 years post divorce and angry. I dont want to keep his secret. No one really understands why we broke up-- (do they care ?) and I dont offer the real reason. My two kids dont know. His family doesnt have a clue.

I feel very alone and angry harboring this tale.

NM, my heart breaks for you...I love my wife but we are in a similar situation, we have seperated twice, have not divorced. It will be our 21st anniversary on the 18th. I hate what this has done to her, I do love her but conversation concerning this issue is nearly impossible. I am guilty of shutting her out & she strikes out of anger & frustration, intimate connection nearly impossible, feel very disconnected. A vicious circle that neither of us elected or bargained for. I wish I had the "quick fix" answer. I am willing to be a sounding board or act as a proxy for your ex if you need to vent. May do me good to get a grip or understand her perspective better. I wish you well.

NM, my heart goes out to you,

It is frustrating for a spouse to finally be told that the reason for the dysfunction in the marriage is because of sexual abuse.
Sexual abuse is a traumatic event in a human's life, a criminal act that is rarely prosecuted, where the victim is forced to relabel his feelings and thoughts, his personality and his behavior in increasingly forceful mental exercises until there is no other choice but to act out and destroy himself and what is good around him.

He is a victim, and now you and your marriage are a victim, of an attack that left you both fearful, ashamed, hurt and powerless.

Until a male abuse victim wants to recover, he is a sufferer of and internalizes the abuse. He deserves it, he wants it, he may be thinking this way. Inside him, NM, he still suffers from daily abuse. Until he wants to be a survivor, he is fragmented, he is alive and dead.
He certainly should have sought counseling, he should have stuck with you in the marriage, he should survive and heal, but he did not.

The divorce happened three years ago, why is this still a source of stress in your life? May I ask? Closure is about accepting that a situation is untenable, impossible to maintain and is no longer able to be sustained. This is close to impossible, NM. I am empathizing with your situation.

If "they" are continuing to bring up the divorce to you, "they" need to find something else in their lives to rescue, not in your backyard.

You may need to find a counselor that can guide you to self affirmation, to self conviction. Finding that we can be our own rescuers and salvation is a good feeling.

It is of interest to me that the things your post is struggling with, failed marriage, secrets, containing feelings of anger, not finding local support, not reaching out, and lonely, is the exact same reasons why men come here to recover.

You are my sister, NM, you supported a fellow sufferer of sexual abuse for 20 years, thank you. You come here for you and your children, that makes you special.

Find you,
Sam

NM,
I can identify with what you are saying. I am the ex of a survivor, too.

It is hard to deal with the aftermath of a breakup and still harboring his secret. The feelings I have for him didn't just disappear and I know I need to grieve the loss of my relationship as long as I need to. It's hard to deal with friends who don't understand and who say useless phrases like, "It wasn't meant to be" or "There has to be someone else for you." Their pat phrases are not helpful to me and provide me no comfort. I am a mixed bag of emotions: sad, lost, angry, hurt, numb.

I've talked to some friends about issues like depression and grieving the loss of a loved one. It was interesting that just venturing into those topics made them feel uncomfortable, causing them to tell me I was getting too deep and heavy for them and they didn't know if they could continue talking about those topics. It reminded me that we all have different barometers. Those of us who deal with problems like CSA and ASA have a different threshold than those who have the luxury of not thinking about it on a daily basis. It is quite possible that whomever you tell may not be able to understand or deal with the truth anyway. How much more misunderstood and alone might you feel if you told someone only to have them brush it off?

My ex chooses to keep his abuse a secret and I should respect that wish. I need outlets to share my anger, pain and hurt, but it is best for me to share them in safe environments where I know I will be understood. As a result, I've come to learn that sharing on MS and going to therapy are the safest and best outlets for me.

Your feelings are very legitimate. Don't hide from them. Keep sharing here and talking to your T.

SunnyGirl

I often feel hurt and rejected by others who think it is easy to "move on" after a relationship has ended or think there is a timeline by which one must be done grieving the loss of that relationship. As my T reminds me, there is no timeline by which one should be "healed." If the pure passage of time were a cure to all that ails us, there would not be any need for MS, as all survivors would be magically cured by time. We all know that not to be true. There is nothing wrong with still feeling hurt three years after your husband decided he needed to leave the relationship.

I told my T that I don't think I will ever accept that my ex did the right thing by walking away rather than choosing to lean on me and seek professional help. My T said that is reasonable and that people who think pain goes away with time don't really understand what it means to feel loss. He said that it doesn't go away, it just starts to feel different. I know that to be true, as I lost a parent at a young age. That pain is still with me, but it is different than it was when the loss was fresh. It's not to say that I haven't dealt with that loss, but when it is a genuine loss, a scar always remains. I am not a survivor, but I imagine the same is true for them -- through professional help, a survivor can "heal" but will always carry the scars of the abuse. I think it is the same when a relationship ends because of CSA or ASA. It is hard for someone who has not been left for that reason to know what that feels like, but the loss of a meaningful relationship is not a wound that heals scar-free.

The path toward healing is not straight forward for survivors and neither is the path toward healing for supporters.

SunnyGirl

I agree that it is hard to have friends and family judge the situation and you cannot explain to them the "whys." However, it is not our place to disclose the abuse to anyone (trust me...I made that mistake and regret it). I recommend confiding in a good T and to people here on MS. Also, as others have said, it is your right to tell people that there are details about your life that are not their business. Hard to do, I know, which is why MS and therapy are such lifesavers. PM me anytime.

-Hope

Thank you for your response. I am truly grateful for the insight and thoughtful replies. I feel very alone most of the time concerning this topic.

I hope you can trust your wife enough to let her in and become a healing partner. I wanted to be that for my ex- but he was too afraid or not trusting enough. If she has stuck with you this long-- she sees something in your worthwhile. Believe in her and trust her. She knows you better than you think. Good Luck, and breaking up doesnt make it better-- divorce is soooo hard.

Thank you for replying- it is very comforting to know other people are in this boat. The rejection is huge-- and just knowing it was something I was willing to address and heal, but he wasnt makes it hard to feel the break up was really necessary.

I am still hurt and youre right; its a personal decision when we heal and think we can 'forgive'. Forgiveness isnt in the cards-- and so many people stand up say to forgive-- I just can't now and don't know if I ever will. I contain my anger and dont let it run my life, but its still there. Thank you for opening up and offering empathy. That makes this more tolerable.

His story is not for you to tell anyone...you read me?

If you need illustration, change the genders and roles (female rape). If you want things ended, than be happy with your breach of the marriage vows and call it a day.

My ex decided to tell my entire town and the kids school admins and teachers. That is actually a civilly actionable offence. YOU are just seeking pure-old revenge.

Actually, the title of your post ought not be "Angry and Seeking INformation"...rather, is should be "Angry and Seeking Justification for Revenge."

I think Robbie put in the right context.
Would you go spreading it around if your daughter had been raped as a child?
Having said that, I know that I was so angry when I realized that my mother was a survivor of incest....and she always kept the secret...what pissed me off was the fact that she continued to idolize her brother abuser. Her brothers were everything...we her sons were nothing....I was angry and felt I wanted my siblings to know......
I can imagine you have a similar kind of rage having put in 20yrs. but you were an adult....you had a choice weather or not to stay in a a no-conncection/little-intimacy marriage. I think the bigger question is why you would put up with that .....I can only imagine that if you were capable of real intimacy that would have been intolerable. If two people stay in a difficult marriage for 20yrs...you can't just blame one of them.....

I have been the partner of a survivor for 27 years. I believe that there are two people in any relationship, from the very beginning. Of the 27 years I have spent with my partner the reality of his csa has only been known to me for 4 years. He has only been trying to address it for 6 weeks. Please give those who have lived with these kinds of significant problems, yet continue to love and only ask be loved in return, some credit and some understanding. I truly understand that the wife of 20 years may well need to release the hidden truth to her children. They need to understand her, her life, their father and his life. They need to understand their own childhoods. SECRETS are the problem. SECRETS are where abuse lives and thrives.
Please, the people who love the survivor are hurting too. Two decades is a long time. Human beings can be crushed in this length of time...all survivors of childhood abuse know this is true. NO MORE SECRETS! They are not yours alone. They belong to all who love you and will ever love you.
H&H

I have seen people flee and vanish after disclosure. These have been friends and FAMILY for all my life.

If you go to the front page of Malesurvivor.org, you'll see an entire section on "The Common Myths" surrounding CSA. They are not there because we needed text to fill a screen. They are there to 1) describe major hinderances beyond disclosure and 2) describe being Rejected by those whom just don't get it.

I just went through a six-figure divorce case for TWO YEARS where a judge fully ate-up every myth of common banter when they were introduced by my ex-wife's lawyer.

In the process, my wife and her attorney got me banned from every activity and assn involving my children. OFFENCE AGAINST MY CHILDREN was NEVER EVEN ONCE a charge during the case. But instead of just a simple dissolusion of marriage, she insisted upon getting even with the MAN whom went-on to get a graduate begree and provide her with TWO HOUSES, NO DEBT and her not having to work for eleven years. She insisted upon having my blood on the streets.

I DO give those who live with us credit...especially those who respect what happened and support a very painful process. I have nothing but nuclear-grade disdane for those who blame us for doing what the world expected of us...that is to suck-it-up, be a man, and get on with your life! THAT, by the way, is the same dehavior we (as a "society") expected from WWII, Vietnam, Korea and Middle-east veterans.

You say: NO MORE SECRETS! They are not yours alone. . You are flat-out wrong there, and you'll see the degree to which you are wrong if you persecute our silence and/or drag it out of us before we are ready.

Would you do the same to a war Vet (God Bless Them), because he does not speak of a found school-room full of chard 6 year olds?

What do you hope to accomplish (again: what do you hope to accomplish) by taking his story and telling it for him? Do you even know enough to tell all correctly? Even if you do, what do you hope to accomplish? I THINK you are seeking justification for some pretty nasty behavior and reactions on your part.

Let me tell you first-hand: What you are describing doing is traumatizing in and of itself. Its WRONG!

One more "what if." What if your son were horribly abused from age 7 to 12? Would YOU tell all of his potential girlfriends what happened to him? Whould you tell his super-close GF what happened? Would you tell him to "just give-up a normal life?"

I'll end this with two clear questions:

1) What do you tell/command/order YOUR son whom was abused when he begins to date....say in college or HS?

2) WHY do you suppose we maintain our silence?

MY guess is that NONE of you take these questions-on in a deep, truthfull manner.

Please don't disclose his secret. It's not yours to disclose. You could traumatize him beyond saving. Please consider him...please don't tell!

NEED A HEART, I ASK YOU TO HAVE A HEART.....

Your husband is at least trying, tell him you concerns ask him if he can put a date that you and he as a team will come up with a plan to tell your children.

As a child who was burdened with my mothers problems, I will tell you this. I lost my childhood because I had to support my mothers insecurities.

Your children will ask if they really want to. I do not know if you should force the issue on them, unless they show an interest.

head and heart I hope you have read what was said to you.

Even you have secrets no one tell all to everyone, and talking about sexual abuse is not all that easy. There are many problems with your thinking. But I can tell you that it will not help. It is your husbands choice to tell or not tell not yours. Read more books for spouces. If you can not find them I will give you some titles. I hope your valentine's day is great despite how you are dealing with his abuse.

MJ

NM there is one other key aspect to consider....the 2 kids.

My T has been clear that there is no upside to a child learning of a parent's sexual abuse trauma......period.

I wish you and your ex nothing but wellness.

More importantly I wish that your kids never have to deal with this at all....

I did not realize you were divorced well I hope you have a great val day and I also hope your husband does and your children.

everyone deals with abuse differently

NM,

I was with my T today. I think he was done listening to me gripe and bitch about this situation (which sounds just like mine). In fact, I made a statement about my ex mis-handling things but he took it as a statement about you. He said "maybe she's just hurting and turned to male survivor for some help."

I hope anything I have offered will not be taken as a slam or caused you any pain. Disclsure around here is a volitile subject. Wives and GFs who leave us need to be treated with kindness that I've not been able to find yet...but I'm working on it.

Being angry and unable to forgive calls for healing ones own life-not revealing the confidences of a ex-spouse upon his children.

What are your motives in disclosing to your kids? What exactly do you intend to disclose? Will this help them? Will it foster understanding all around?

My kids know in a general way ( they are pre-terns now) that my childhood wasn't rosy and hat bad things happened. This is my story to tell them and more will be disclosed directly as theymature. If they have questions about me, the healthiest thing my wife does is encourage them to talk to me directly.

Triangulation of communication thru a third party is dysfunctional-it always carries a hidden agenda of the third party and fosters secrecy and more separation. It is not mature, healthy, or adult to carry on in this manner.

I wish for you compassion, healing, and freedom in your own life today. You may have much to regret about the end of your marriage, but you have more freedom from the prison your ex continues to live in. Get in touch with the joy of that freedom for yourself today to enjoy life.

I would not be with my husband today to love or support him in his recovery if I had not been able to confide in my sister. In fact, after having lived with the unexplained pain and trauma in our marriage for 23 years, I might not even be alive if I had not had someone to talk to. MS has been a godsend while I waited for an additional 4 years for my husband to begin healing. Partners of survivors are not made of stone.
If it were not for the whole world of SECRETS that surrounded my husband's childhood he may well have begun his recovery 50 years ago. I am not proposing that partners betray the confidences of their marriage but only that those around the survivor need to heal too. I do believe that abuse can only live and thrive through SECRETS. It is in the telling that we learn we are not alone.
Just a note to Robbie Brown. I have followed you here on MS for a long time. I know you have lost a great deal in your life and that you believe it would not have happened if you had not disclosed. I can see that your disclosure was turned against you and you have had to defend yourself ever since. It is the self serving ignorance of those who turned your disclosure against you that is the great betrayal not the openness of your disclosure itself. I hope my earlier post did not upset you too much.
H&H

Dear Robbie,

I'm trying to understand your posting about the judge's decision. Will you have time with your children?

Your ex-wife is a vicious, heartless bitch to bootstrap your childhood without any wrongdoing of you against your children!! It's horrifying the judge seems to have no insight into the longterm effects of childhood torture.

I must agree with head&heart: your openness of disclosure would be a good thing. Why your treasonous wife decided to use it against you, I cannot comprehend. But in my business, I see it all the time, the money grubbing wives who, at first opportunity take any fig leaf they can find to strip their husbands of everything.

I believe in disclosure to those that know and love you. Apparently, that may not include wives!!!!!!!! Bizarre!!!!!
D.

D,

We had the final trial last weeek...it all took two years.

My children and I were beyond close. We explored woods constantly, we built grand treehouses (pictured here in the past), we built crazy contraptions together...and we were so close...beyond words...beyond de>

I wouldn't disclose your ex-husbands secret. I'm still with my partner and was so shocked about the csa I knew I couldn't deal with this by myself. So immediately I looked for a therapist, and that has worked out well.
My partner is absolutely terrified that someone else may find out/know and I respect that. In my private life I have fully confided to a very close friend, who I know will keep her mouth shut and do nothing else than just support me.
There was another friend I started talking to, in a manner of testing the waters and her reaction was not good at all, so I cut the conversation short and never mentioned anything again.

Thinking of how terrified my partner is about others finding out, please don't share this secret with other people. It's up to your husband to decide when and if he wants to come out with this.
It's also not up to you to decide that the kids should know, however hard that may be. Your task is to make sure they have a good bond and relationship with their dad.
And for your friend's and family, it's none of their business why you divorced. Tell them to go and buy a tabloid if they love dwelling over other people's misery.

I have known my partner for over 3 decades and married for over 2 decades. He is my best friend. But the lonlieness in our relationship can literally be crushing for both of us. We have worked on communication, but both seem to live separate lives, even when we are in the same room. He can go in and out of the "zone" and we both have walls of steel and perhaps for very different reasons. Me, I'm protecting myself from more emotional pain. He is fearful of intimacy and not comfortable with it and after years of sharing a "disconnected"
relationship, one can lose hope of change. It is foreign to have a new/fresh/healthy realtionship and does NOT come natural. Even though I know he loves/trusts me, I don't always "feel" that way.
In a different way, I too feel like a "survivor" of a marriage that has not been easy in any way. It's been some of the lonliest times of my life and not what I expected at all. Yet, I don't want to be without him. I worry that we are who we are in how our relationship has developed and though we try to improve, it just doesn't seem to happen for us for any extended period of time and is a constant struggle to maintain an acceptable "normal" relationship.
I had an idea or intuition of many things before our marriage, but really didn't have a clue of how bad it was for him as a child. He disclosed bits of information along the way and I had to figure a lot of it out on my own. I don't want to go share his "secrets". I love him and want to be loved back. But, I need a consistent loving emotional connection, not just an occasional physical connection that is cold and dissatisfying. I do fear that I too am incapable of giving myself to him in the way he needs me. Could it be that we can only be friends after all of this time together? I guess I'm just rambling and in pain like many/all of us here. Our relationship feels like a child who has "failed to thrive". Thank you for listening.

TTH

NM has a right to her truth and to tell her story, she's been through Hell too! That her ex-husband can't or won't seek treatment is tragic, sadly it perpetuates the abuse he and others have and continue to suffer.

Perhaps she would be able to move on with her life if she wasn't stuck by his secretiveness and inability to at least break the silence.

Having said that, NM does not have a right to tell the details, if she even knows any, or to maliciously use this to any unfair advantage, but she doesn't seem the type. I think she would have already made that move if that was her intention. The kids, how old are they?, if adults themselves, perhaps they might benefit from some truth too. You all know how, as kids, we often blame ourselves for what's wrong around us, even when it has absolutely nothing to do with us.

As a survivor of CSA I understand the damaging power that keeping secrets has. After many years now, still working my own recovery, I have issues around my own silence with certain people; like especially my perp cousins mother, father and sister, not telling them has been to safeguard my aunt's fragile health. I worry though that it also protected my cousin too much and may have endangered others over the years. It also left me open to undeserved criticisms and plenty of misunderstanding.

I just think that NM has a very real right to her truth and to be able to move on with her life. She's given enough, if her ex wants to stay stuck that's his business, but she shouldn't have to.

Dear Robbie,

As a divorce lawyer, I can see that you got the visitation that many of my clients get. I'm glad the judge didn't order "supervised" time with your kids.

After working in this for a long time, Ive come to the conclusion "no fault" divorce laws make it too easy for a wife to dump her husband.

I'll also say, what has happened to you, has made me more cautious with my friend. He has a child, and for someone to use this against him in his role as a father, would be horrendous.

I hope the best for you. I'm sure you were a good husband and a great father.
D.