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#353752 - 02/15/11 01:57 PM Re: Fairness in Housing = Pedophile Hunting Grounds [Re: risingagain]
westchesterguy Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/13/09
Posts: 421
Loc: Westchester County NY
Originally Posted By: risingagain
... it's ingrained homophobia ...


bingo!

and its this way for the same reasons i've been stating all along.

people "earn" respect -- they don't get handed respect out of the goodness of the male psyche or by passing special laws.

i can't speak to each of your points, although i think its very cool you started that football group. i'd have joined! :-) then there would have been two of us there.

but to this: "why should i go and tell some straight guy at a bar about my love life?"

i don't know why anyone would... however if he is talking to you, simply because he thinks you are a cool dude, which has been the case for me, the best answer in my book is: "oh, yeah, oh man, i can relate with that. guys are just like girls, they break your heart and turn to the next one." or something to that affect if its just a chummy conversation.

in that example, 1) i haven't said to this man that i'm gay and he must accept me or else i'm calling the equality police, 2) shared an equivalent experience "in a way that is rather disarming" man to man. we shared a bad (or good) dating experience together over a beer, he learns that i date guys, but he also sees that i'm not after him through my body language (which is 100% absent from anything/everything internet) and he sees that there should be no fear of me whatsoever.

it is in that approach where i strongly believe the myths can be squashed. gay guys are the fringe group here, and i think many of us are alone in the first place, which makes it more difficult, solitary, and isolating. i think part of the solution is on a case-by-case basis.

so, in my situation where i face job loss if it was discovered that i date guys - WHEN i finally find a new job and can leave this one -- that lasting, final impression must be: "jeff was the best worker we had... yeah he is a fag... but damn, i'll never be able to replace him." to me that is an incredible win, for me and for you and all other gay guys.

_________________________
Jeff

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#353753 - 02/15/11 02:07 PM Re: Fairness in Housing = Pedophile Hunting Grounds [Re: risingagain]
westchesterguy Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/13/09
Posts: 421
Loc: Westchester County NY
Originally Posted By: risingagain
ps the video i posted contains wonderful footage of the 'gay agenda' making a difference


sigh - i can tell we won't agree on this. :-)

i do not approve of that whole "it gets better" movement because i think that is an irresponsible message to give teens - gay or straight - doesn't matter.

life does NOT get better. it gets more complicated, more difficult, more stressful, and in it there can be some points of joy, great sex, good friends, an extreme challenges some of which we will win and some we will lose.

lying to kids on the verge of suicide is, to me, a tragedy in itself. never lie. instead arm them, hug them, love them, prep them, bulk them up - make them stronger to fight for what they believe in and empower them so that "they can succeed!"

_________________________
Jeff

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#353755 - 02/15/11 02:22 PM Re: Fairness in Housing = Pedophile Hunting Grounds [Re: risingagain]
risingagain Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/09/10
Posts: 595
Loc: Vancouver, BC, Canada
i sing in a gay men's chorus. we did a benefit concert for a local child find organization that works to prevent child abuse and abduction. we sang a powerful song, prayer of the children, together with 200 children on stage and 3 other choirs.

it was so powerful for me, i was just starting to work on my abuse and having all these gleaming children around me raising their voices for their protection was so beautiful.

i guess that's another example of the gay agenda, huh?


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#353885 - 02/16/11 08:40 PM Re: Fairness in Housing = Pedophile Hunting Grounds [Re: risingagain]
risingagain Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/09/10
Posts: 595
Loc: Vancouver, BC, Canada
Jeff, I think in that bar I would do the same thing as you- use a story, something the person can relate to, to build a bridge.

"people "earn" respect -- they don't get handed respect out of the goodness of the male psyche or by passing special laws."

And what about people who have earned respect but still don't get it? For example, the veteran lesbian cop in Florida whose partner, also a cop, was killed while on duty defending a bank from bank robbers. In a time when she should have been mourning the loss of her life partner, she endured a whole year of public scrutiny and was denied the significant benefits normally associated with a spouse's death. People called her selfish for asking for money that any straight couple would get no questions asked in that very same situation.

It's covered beautifully in the movie, Tying the Knot. Check it out sometime.


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#353886 - 02/16/11 08:50 PM Re: Fairness in Housing = Pedophile Hunting Grounds [Re: risingagain]
risingagain Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/09/10
Posts: 595
Loc: Vancouver, BC, Canada
I also agree with you that personal connection is a great way to break down walls. I found that to be true as a member of a football team. Once the guys realized I'm just a normal guy, they opened up to me and we had a lot of good times.

Still though, I faced the prejudice of some.

In my judgement the gay community needs good balanced men and women to show up as part of it. So I am showing up.


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#354129 - 02/19/11 11:25 AM Re: Fairness in Housing = Pedophile Hunting Grounds [Re: risingagain]
Ever-fixed Mark Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 01/02/10
Posts: 727
Loc: United States
Thanks for sharing that, risingagain. It's painful to begin to trust and be bruised. And yet, to live fully in the world that risk is part of the deal.

I would encourage you to reflect on why you are projecting all of these fears and concerns on this person. We can all come up with something that resonates with us as a reason not to move forward in our recovery.

Courage is not letting it stop us.

-efm

_________________________

Everybody here's got a story to tell
Everybody's been through their own hell
There's nothing too special about getting hurt
Getting over it, that takes the work

- "Duck and Cover" by Glen Phillips

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#354132 - 02/19/11 11:58 AM Re: Fairness in Housing = Pedophile Hunting Grounds [Re: westchesterguy]
Ever-fixed Mark Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 01/02/10
Posts: 727
Loc: United States
Originally Posted By: westchesterguy
i do not approve of that whole "it gets better" movement because i think that is an irresponsible message to give teens - gay or straight - doesn't matter.

life does NOT get better. it gets more complicated, more difficult, more stressful, and in it there can be some points of joy, great sex, good friends, an extreme challenges some of which we will win and some we will lose.

lying to kids on the verge of suicide is, to me, a tragedy in itself. never lie. instead arm them, hug them, love them, prep them, bulk them up - make them stronger to fight for what they believe in and empower them so that "they can succeed!"

I hear that you are feeling a lot of frustration, anger, and pain about the experiences you've had in your life. Many of us have felt the same way in our lives, too.

The "It Gets Better" Project is to encourage lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender teens to have hope that their life will get better so that ending their lives before they have even really begun is never a serious option. Hope displaces despair and opens us up to new possibilities and different lives. [Full-disclosure: I participated in an IGBP video project]

No one is saying that life isn't still difficult, and if you've watched as many of the videos as I have you'd have heard many stories of difficult post-school challenges, but what they are saying is that when you get control of your own life and your own choices you can go and create a life you really want to live despite the challenges. The results, as always, are somewhat up to fate, but mostly up to us.

I don't believe that giving our youth hope is irresponsible. Everyone deserves to have hope for change, a better day, and a better life. Failing to offer hope, well... that wouldn't be unconscionable.

-efm

_________________________

Everybody here's got a story to tell
Everybody's been through their own hell
There's nothing too special about getting hurt
Getting over it, that takes the work

- "Duck and Cover" by Glen Phillips

Top
#354572 - 02/23/11 01:14 PM Re: Fairness in Housing = Pedophile Hunting Grounds [Re: Ever-fixed Mark]
risingagain Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/09/10
Posts: 595
Loc: Vancouver, BC, Canada
>>
I would encourage you to reflect on why you are projecting all of these fears and concerns on this person. We can all come up with something that resonates with us as a reason not to move forward in our recovery.

Courage is not letting it stop us.

-efm
<<

Courage is also having the balls to stand up to any establishment which I feel may be out of integrity. My question to any organization that claims to be LGBT affirmative is...

What are you DOING to affirm the LGBT people in your group?

Gay people have taken a beating. Recovery organizations should work actively to dispel myths around homosexuality, including those perpetrated by the church.

When leaders in these organizations also represent the church (Jim Struve, Lee Beckstead, others?), there is AT LEAST a potential for damage to gay people attending their weekends. I want to see this addressed directly, but have heard nothing from the team leading the weekend I'm signed up for.

As a client I have a right to ask questions about the recovery methods and the therapists. That is my right, and I will exercise it, because god damnit, my little boy is WORTH IT!

Ra


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#354574 - 02/23/11 01:20 PM Re: Fairness in Housing = Pedophile Hunting Grounds [Re: risingagain]
risingagain Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/09/10
Posts: 595
Loc: Vancouver, BC, Canada
PS One thing I have learned about projections is that, although they reflect my issues, that does not make them false. There may or may not be truth in any projection I have about another person or situation.

Even if I am triggered, I have the right to question service providers and to challenge them to be more accountable to their mission. In my belief, that is what a real man does.

I have also learned that every therapist, regardless of training or experience, is also a human being. We all have beliefs and concepts that color the way we see a situation. This affects a therapist's therapeutic response and behavior. We are all affected by our experiences.

Any therapist that pretends to be 'the expert' without acknowledging their own humanness is a dangerous person.

Back to my question... Malesurvivor, what are you DOING to affirm the LGBT people in your organization? What are your beliefs, spoken and unspoken about gay life?

The nature of the organization is in how it responds to challenge.


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#354575 - 02/23/11 01:22 PM Re: Fairness in Housing = Pedophile Hunting Grounds [Re: risingagain]
risingagain Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/09/10
Posts: 595
Loc: Vancouver, BC, Canada
Protect my little boy

that's my motive.


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