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#350292 - 01/10/11 06:27 PM Predator's method Ė violence or seduction
earlybird Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/17/10
Posts: 1007
Loc: WA USA

Iíve been thinking on this for a few days.

Predators Iím sure can be divided into a number of categories but for the moment Iíd like to think of them in two groups. There are those that use seduction and coxing to needle their way into the lives of their victims. In doing so they destroy trust towards caretakers and loved ones. Interesting enough some of these predators would never resort to physical violence. Itís as if, they have some twisted moral code or boundary and would never pull a weapon or beat their victims. Then you have those that violence is as much or more of the pleasure they seek making the sexual act itself almost secondary. No matter what they would force violence into the equation in order to gain whatever sick need it is they are after.

Clearly a predator could use both, as was in my case, but either way it is all extremely damaging.

So, why did I bring this up? I donít know Iíve just had it running in my brain for a few days and needed to get it out. I guess there really is no point to be madeÖÖ.

_________________________
Balanced (My goal)

There is symmetry
In self-reflection
Life exemplified
Grace personified

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#350297 - 01/10/11 07:06 PM Re: Predator's method Ė violence or seduction [Re: earlybird]
prisonerID Offline
Greeter Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/17/08
Posts: 1247
Loc: Oklahoma
Earl,

I actually think you make some valid points. There are some molesters/rapists who actually think violence is a line they would not cross. In their minds that is wrong while they make excuses for what they do sexually to a person. I think many child molesters would say this. You mentioned a code and that might fit this. I have read stories of rapists who took a certain "care" of their adult victims in a sick twisted way and they did not see anything wrong with the sexual assault part.

Then there are the sadistic ones for whom pleasure is not derived solely from the sexual assault. It is also brought about from the violence they inflict upon the victim.

I think grooming can occur with both children and adults. Many adults who have been sexually assaulted knew their assailants. They presented themselves to be a certain person to the intended victim. They brought about a sense of trust from the person they were casing as their next victim.

Something has caused you to bring this up here. Maybe doing this will help you see why.


Daryl



Edited by prisonerID (01/11/11 04:31 PM)
Edit Reason: spelling
_________________________
Broad statements often miss their true mark.

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#350314 - 01/10/11 10:10 PM Re: Predator's method Ė violence or seduction [Re: prisonerID]
sono Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 07/19/09
Posts: 1069
Hey guys,

Earl, that's so curious to see you use that phrase "twisted moral code" as related to not using violence in some perpetrator's methods. It strikes me as curious because of course the man who abused me would never ever have used violence or force. It would have been absolutely impossible for him to I believe.

So there's that on the one hand, and at the same time a very, very tiny part of me reacts instinctively with "well, of course Mark wouldn't have done something so abusive" as if to defend him against the bad sexual abusers.

And Daryl of course that is an absolute line for someone like my perp that they would not cross. An important thing I think for guys like him is to be able to believe on some level that the child is willing and maybe even that they are doing the child a favor. I and others who know him truly believe mine was completely infatuated with me in his own mind. You would never hurt something you love would you?

These are sick fucks, each and every one.

Although I'm sure as Daryl says, this post will serve a purpose for you Earl, I can certainly say it served a purpose for me. I helped me realize that although he did not use violence with me, Mark is not to be judged any more leniently because of that, nor was he less evil. I needed to hear that.

How interesting to observe the through lines which connect all of our perps Earl, Daryl and me...they were each quite different, but there are elements which they all share.

Kevin

_________________________
the family
the perp

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#350340 - 01/11/11 05:59 AM Re: Predator's method Ė violence or seduction [Re: sono]
earlybird Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/17/10
Posts: 1007
Loc: WA USA
Kevin I have to agree with you, there is no reason to show more leniency towards those who resort to twisting love and affection, support and caretaking, into a different form of violence. One that attacks with just as much ferocity and evil intent as does drugging, a gun or a fist. Different parts of the victimís brain, spirit and body may be injured but the damage is every much as reprehensible.

Daryl as always, you see into a corner of my thoughts. I donít know why Iíve been kicking this particular thought about violence around. I know that any sexual abuse is sexual assault and violent by the very fact it is so damaging to the victims. It is not a stolen kiss or a teenís wandering hands, those are completely different events. Itís thievery at its worse. It is monstrous in its intent. Sexual assault is an expression of the loathing of humanity by the rapist or abuser. A desire to destroy!

I still donít know why Iím even on this subject. Iím not saying anything new. No insight. No great ideas as to how to recover. Friggen nothing to suggest. I guess Iím just re-visiting a rotting corpse trying to determine what to do with it, when the answer is readily clear, bury the thing! But for the moment Iíll keep examining it. Why is the real question?

_________________________
Balanced (My goal)

There is symmetry
In self-reflection
Life exemplified
Grace personified

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#350344 - 01/11/11 07:44 AM Re: Predator's method Ė violence or seduction [Re: earlybird]
sono Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 07/19/09
Posts: 1069
Earl,

My T often says when I apologize for repeating something, that repeating it means it must be important. So, there is certainly something important here. I've frequently found it necessary, or at least found myself doing it, to go back and revisit parts of the story in a more complete or full way and/or just simply going through it again. Maybe that's something you need to do here. I think it's instinctively important for us to try and find our place and that is also what you're doing by looking at all of these different types of perpetrators, some of which aren't applicable to yourself.

Oh and of course, if you didn't agree with me, there'd be hell to pay!!!

all the best,

Kevin

_________________________
the family
the perp

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#350351 - 01/11/11 09:10 AM Re: Predator's method Ė violence or seduction [Re: sono]
earlybird Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/17/10
Posts: 1007
Loc: WA USA
Kevin,

Of course Iíll always ďsayĒ I agree with you then pay hellís due. whistle

In my case the seditious tools of seduction were first employed by one man then another man came into the equation as I was not showing interest - it was then things turned violent. Iíve always seen the violence as a consequence of my resistance. A new understanding is forming in my brain. The violence was their central desire and the rape a continuation of the violence. (Does that make any sense?)

_________________________
Balanced (My goal)

There is symmetry
In self-reflection
Life exemplified
Grace personified

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#350352 - 01/11/11 09:14 AM Re: Predator's method Ė violence or seduction [Re: sono]
SamV Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 12/13/09
Posts: 5942
Loc: Talladega, Alabama, USA
Physical, sexual, and emotional abuse, assault, and battery are all forms of trauma that are outside the initial processing abilities of human beings. These are not within the scope of reasoning.

What draws me personally to this subject is both progress beyond the coping mechanisms of the trauma, and, I hate to admit, but an overwhelming pull towards the negative abuse controls I had experienced.

Recovery is a delicate balance. To go back and remember the trauma, the triggers, the feelings and then to process them to a beneficial outcome, to a present that is free of resentment, guilt, shame and a future that is free of anxiety.., this is what recovery means to me.
Inevitably, I find myself shrouded by the abuse controls of fear and frozen ability and rejection. I allow my emotions to invest my present too deeply into the abuse, and I am consumed by the trauma controls, unable to find the "lesson" of recovery.

The "lesson of recovery", the "repeating" as Kevin brought out, is important, I think because I do not grasp that the abuse was not about me, the victim not hand picked. I was a one of three who were abused by the same perpetrator, and I was rejected after years of abuse in favor of another. The feelings of the trauma make it too hard, or I am not strong enough, inevitably, I remember and trigger because I am currently stalled in life and activity. Ok, ok, enough already, stay focused... The "lesson" is that I was abused, but the inner abuser is continuing to tell me that I want the erotic, sensual, complete access but that I will have to submit to being a second class citizen. However, I do not currently get the access, so when I pay for the abuse by submitting my will to inner abuser and do not get the support of access, then I become disillusioned and rejected, over and over.

This has been so debilitating that I am considering applying for federal disability, I cannot get out of this abuse loop. However, this is the first time I was able to spell it out, so...

What are my qualifications for this post? I have been sexually abused, duh, physically beaten for years, and emotionally controlled, no free will.

In my estimation, any trauma is predatory and destructive, and it is about the victim and their perceptions of the abuse that should be the defining judgement, not a set of laws as guidelines. It is the victim that should be asked as to the damage, and then a jury consider the victim as well as the law.

Thanks for your thoughts Earl, great post, and for your patience, Daryl and Kevin, and for you Sam, for sharing. Next time I will do it on a Saturday afternoon, not on your lunch breaks wink

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MaleSurvivor Moderator Emeritus 2012 - 2014

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#350369 - 01/11/11 12:08 PM Re: Predator's method Ė violence or seduction [Re: SamV]
earlybird Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/17/10
Posts: 1007
Loc: WA USA
Sam, the phone conversation with you this morning was wonderful a significant part of this process we refer to as healing.

Your words in the above post;

ďThe "lesson of recovery", the "repeating" as Kevin brought out, is important,Ē

caught my eye. I wonder sometimes if Iím not simply fingering the corps to see if it still has life. Kind of a kids game one in which I sneak up on the rotting flesh of memories ďtag itĒ then run and hide and wait to see if it moves or comes after me. Itís not the fun type of hide and seek that I might play with friends or loving parents, no much more sinister in nature. What I sometimes start to question myself is ďcan a corps be sinister? Or is it me being sadistic to myself?

What I probably should do is go kick the son of a #@%& and then stand there and just challenge it do take me on. mad smile

_________________________
Balanced (My goal)

There is symmetry
In self-reflection
Life exemplified
Grace personified

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#350371 - 01/11/11 12:28 PM Re: Predator's method Ė violence or seduction [Re: earlybird]
SamV Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 12/13/09
Posts: 5942
Loc: Talladega, Alabama, USA
Ha! I completely agree! Earl, just kick it and demand it either get up and fight, or stay down so we can get our rewards!

Finger, kick and share, my fellow survivor, we are not done yet with the abuse controls, but we are farther along.

Sam

_________________________
MaleSurvivor Moderator Emeritus 2012 - 2014

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#350385 - 01/11/11 04:10 PM Re: Predator's method Ė violence or seduction [Re: SamV]
sono Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 07/19/09
Posts: 1069
Well hell if this ain't swell reuniting with you guys in this thread!!!!!!

So now, down to business...

Earl, I think I'm gonna get all survivory on you and suggest that your metaphor, while it may be absolutely perfect for how you feel about this..."go up and touch the corpse" and maybe that's just a good image for you for something long ago, but it is an image so filled with extra feelings (a corpse!! yikes!!) that I can't help but think maybe, as a friend of mine might say, maybe it's your relationship with that corpse that your trying to change...make the corpse less icky in other words. There's no fun per se involved for me when i deal with my abuse, but it's definitely less icky than it was a year ago, if you know what I mean.

Sam, you gotta send me another Sam-note and tell me what the heck you're talkin' 'bout there pardner!

As a side bar, I hop you guys all had a great holiday season and are having a swell start into the new year!

Kevin

_________________________
the family
the perp

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#350404 - 01/11/11 07:42 PM Re: Predator's method Ė violence or seduction [Re: sono]
earlybird Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/17/10
Posts: 1007
Loc: WA USA
Nice talking with you Sono. Don't feel bad about not completely getting Sam, I had to call him this morning to clarify things. LOL

As to the corpes image. It is how I best sum up that moment in time. Where we seem to differ is that for me as I've grown to incorporate the past and I've come a long ways it's "ickyness" has never diminshed. I'm not sure I even understand how it could or if it should. Maybe I'm not as far along as I'd like to invision myself. I'll ponder on it. Thanks for your "going survivory on me" That is what makes this all worth while.

_________________________
Balanced (My goal)

There is symmetry
In self-reflection
Life exemplified
Grace personified

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#354771 - 02/24/11 10:25 PM Re: Predator's method Ė violence or seduction [Re: sono]
Fissy Tsickens Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 09/23/08
Posts: 466
Loc: Bassett, Virginia
This subject struck a nerve with me because I've been thinking a lot lately about how when I hear other's stories of being seduced, groomed, however you want to put it, I feel jealous of them. Like somehow, if my rapist had been nice to me it wouldn't have hurt so much (physically, emotionally, who knows?). I feel so warped admitting this, but that's how I feel. Jealous. How freakin' sick is that? Oye.

Peace,

John

_________________________
Wish that I could cry
Fall upon my knees
Find a way to lie
About a home Iíll never see

It may sound absurd...but donít be naive
Even heroes have the right to bleed
I may be disturbed...but wonít you concede
Even heroes have the right to dream
Itís not easy to be me

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#354784 - 02/24/11 11:58 PM Re: Predator's method Ė violence or seduction [Re: Fissy Tsickens]
michael Joseph Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 03/11/01
Posts: 2719
Loc: Virginia
hi john

hope u r doing well

MJ

_________________________
Standing together is so much better than hiding in the dark.
***I am a three time WoR Retreat Alumni***
The Round Table, Men's CSA Group, Monday 7:30pm CST, MaleSurvivor Chat

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#354925 - 02/25/11 09:15 PM Re: Predator's method Ė violence or seduction [Re: michael Joseph]
Fissy Tsickens Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 09/23/08
Posts: 466
Loc: Bassett, Virginia
Hi, Mike.

Doing so-so; okay, I guess. Hope all is okay with you.

John

_________________________
Wish that I could cry
Fall upon my knees
Find a way to lie
About a home Iíll never see

It may sound absurd...but donít be naive
Even heroes have the right to bleed
I may be disturbed...but wonít you concede
Even heroes have the right to dream
Itís not easy to be me

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#354941 - 02/26/11 12:38 AM Re: Predator's method Ė violence or seduction [Re: earlybird]
pufferfish Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/26/08
Posts: 6867
Loc: USA
This will make you angry or ill or both.

A few years ago I read a very disturbing book about a pedophile. I almost hesitate to post it because this book is so inflammatory. The book is: Conversations With A Pedophile, by Amy Hammel-Zabin. One hardcover edition of the book is now selling for $297.00 a copy, but the softcover version is selling for $8.77 for a used copy in good condition.

http://www.amazon.com/Conversations-Pedophile-Interest-our-Children/dp/1569802475/

The author went to the prison where the convicted pedophile was confined in a life sentence. There she interviewes him at length and exchanged letters with him. He was the Hannibal Lecter of child (boy) abuse. He was very intelligent. He moved into the town and quickly joined a church and a boy scout troop (as a scoutmaster). Nearly all of his waking hours, even lasting into when he went to bed were occupied in figuring out how to get to boys. It was his consuming interest in his perverted life. He made friends with boys' parents and won the boys' confidence too. He took them out on camping trips. He had designed games and words to pervert the will of the boys. He became very good at it. He relished his own skill at subverting boys. He admits to having molested over 1000 boys before he was stopped. He claimed that his greatest joy was to totally break the will of the boy. He was so smooth that nobody suspected what he was up to. He never used violence or force. He only used words and entrapment situations and smooth talk.

Allen


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