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#349849 - 01/05/11 05:34 PM Re: "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" Repeal [Re: westsidej]
blaidd Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 12/01/00
Posts: 240
Loc: Australia
In my humble opinion, the tone of voice in your original post was disparaging and patronizing towards gay people. I was simply pointing this out.

I could dissect your post and point out my concerns, but I do not come to this forum to defend myself or others against the negative attitude towards gay people that some people believe they have the right to express, regardless of their own sexuality.

I have better things to do with my time.


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#349984 - 01/07/11 12:32 AM Re: "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" Repeal [Re: blaidd]
westsidej Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 12/04/09
Posts: 150
Loc: Minnesota
EFM, I agree w/ you and yes, I was just pointing out my empirical evidence as a member of the US military for almost 20 years.

Kind of makes sense you would consult with someone who served both before and during DADT for some real life experience instead of a college freshman or some grandstanding politician. And a CSA survivor no less.

Anyone can speak out on DADT here in a respectful manner so far as I know, but those that are for keeping the policy in place seem to have their rights to speak frequently muted or muzzled under the guise of either political correctness or the typical homophobic response.

Again, I hope it works out as well or better than expected on both sides. I made that point lucidly so I am not sure how that constitutes derogatory language in any sense of the word.

To the brother from down under, you may not know this but here in the US, at least for now, we have a right to be racists, anti-semites, bigots, neo-nazis, black nationalists, sexists, homophobes, la raza members, Islamophobes, Christophobes...and the first amendment to the Constitution ensures free speech of the most heinous nature. Non-inflammatory speech needs no protection.

One of our nation's founders Thomas Jefferson summed it up when he said
Quote:
"I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it."


We can disagree but should at least respect each other as a person, which I feel you did not since you already judged me as being anti-gay without knowing anything about me. Think about that.

J


_________________________
My CSA story TRIGGERS!!!!

The hottest place in Hell is reserved for those who remain neutral in times of great moral conflict. Rev. Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.

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#349993 - 01/07/11 01:56 AM Re: "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" Repeal [Re: westsidej]
Ever-fixed Mark Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 01/02/10
Posts: 728
Loc: United States
Westsidej,

I'm not sure what discussion you are taking part in, but the one I'm taking part in is where you've received the benefit of the doubt from me.

The only certain determination I've made is that you are in pain, like so many of us here.

-efm

_________________________

Everybody here's got a story to tell
Everybody's been through their own hell
There's nothing too special about getting hurt
Getting over it, that takes the work

- "Duck and Cover" by Glen Phillips

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#350025 - 01/07/11 11:30 AM Re: "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" Repeal [Re: Ever-fixed Mark]
westsidej Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 12/04/09
Posts: 150
Loc: Minnesota
EFM, I know that I received the benefit of the doubt from you, just as I put my trust in you, even if we don't always see eye to eye.

This was in reference to our friend from the outback who insinuated I was either anti-gay or a homophobe after posting a thoughtful rational post about DADT that may not have been in total consort with his views.

I apologize if there was any confusion on my part.

Still much love here for both of you guys, even if not reciprocated. wink

J


_________________________
My CSA story TRIGGERS!!!!

The hottest place in Hell is reserved for those who remain neutral in times of great moral conflict. Rev. Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.

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#350044 - 01/07/11 03:34 PM Re: "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" Repeal [Re: westsidej]
Ever-fixed Mark Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 01/02/10
Posts: 728
Loc: United States
Ah, now I see what happened. I'm also from Australia (moved to the US more than 15 years ago) and it wasn't clear who you were referring to.

-efm

_________________________

Everybody here's got a story to tell
Everybody's been through their own hell
There's nothing too special about getting hurt
Getting over it, that takes the work

- "Duck and Cover" by Glen Phillips

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#350138 - 01/08/11 05:17 PM Re: "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" Repeal [Re: westsidej]
diamondheart Offline
Member

Registered: 02/25/01
Posts: 157
Loc: Michigan
Originally Posted By: westsidej

Howdy my brothers & happy new year!

As one of the few members who deal with this issue first hand, I thought I should provide my perspective to those who never served in the military.

We'll see how this policy turns out in the long term. Personally, I hope it's a tempest in a teapot but that's to be seen. Here are some issues that are going to need to be addressed that you may/may not have considered.

-Do military chaplains retain the right to preach the Bible, Torah or Qu'ran verses that define homosexuality as a sin towards God? They should but it might take congressional action to ensure religious liberty for those who defend our freedoms by taking care of our military men/women's spiritual needs.

-What about base housing? Should heterosexual couples w/ kids have priority over gay/lesbian domestic partners w/out? You could argue both sides on this one.

-Do gay couples who both serve receive spousal/domestic partner preference in terms of duty station assignments, even if they're in states that don't recognize gay marriage/civil unions? Again, this will have to be ejudicated.

-What about homosexuality for those service members stationed in the middle East? Good luck holding hands or PDA's in Iraq, Quatar, Kuwait, Afghanistan or Turkey. You'll end up like that British couple who barely made it out of I think Bahrain w/out enduring a long harsh prison sentence. Food for thought when off base outconus.

Again, I personally don't care if someone's gay or straight in the military. I care about their work ethic, professionalism, intelligence, ability to improvise, commitment to discipline and respect for those both above and below them (Keep your mind out of the gutter wink ) in the officer and enlisted ranks.

Just as I don't care what girl some sailor banged in port last night, I don't want to hear about some guy who hooked up with another guy in Naples or Mayport. Keep it to yourself, regardless of sexual preference and you'll do well.


BTW, I've never heard of anyone being kicked out for being gay during my long long time in the service, both active and reserve in several branches. We had several gay guys in my Navy unit back in the 80's/90's and we could care less about their personal life. They were fellow sailors. They did their thing, we did ours and no one bothered them in their choice of sexual partners.

Usually, not always, there's more than just being gay that gets someone the boot from the service. If you're annoying, bad for moral, combative or just plain negative, DADT makes for an easy way to remove you from the unit, company, division, workcenter or squadron.


So, those are some things to consider no matter what side of the argument you fall upon.

Again, happy new year and hope to be in more contact this year.

Jay


Over 13,000 service members have been discharged due to DADT.

It went beyond someone coming out... Service members were being investigated for being gay, they had their email accounts search and various other different invasions of privacy... They were not following the Don't Ask portion of the policy...

Plain and simple this policy discriminated against others, regardless of how you feel about it... Sure anyone can voice their opinions because of their constitutional right but it doesn't make it morally right!

I would also like to point out that many gay couples have children too. It is not just straight couples that have kids.

I am not sure your point in responding to this thread? This thread was started in response to DADT being overturned, it wasn't a debate as to whether it was right or wrong. Surely you had to know posting a response like you did, would bring some heat? Maybe you didn't come off accross as homophobic but you certainly didn't come off accross sympahtetic or gay friendly. This section of MS is a place where we can feel safe in sharing our feelings and someone not gay responding like you did can come off accross differently.

In regards to your statement about others feeling their suffering is worse than others, that could be said for anyone... You can't compare the pain and suffering to another... Same could be said for survivors of CSA, there will always be someone who suffered more. It is about injustice, no matter how big or small!!!

_________________________
I am a gay guy just trying to find my way...

http://itismytimetoshine.wordpress.com

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#350265 - 01/10/11 01:50 PM Re: "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" Repeal [Re: diamondheart]
westsidej Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 12/04/09
Posts: 150
Loc: Minnesota
Thanks to all who have chimed in on this topic. I've made my points, listened to others who agreed or had opposing viewpoints, both on/off-line, and it's time to move on, as the George Soros backed group says.

Final thoughts:
Myself and a few others here on ms who are veterans served with gay servicemembers in different branches of the military. IMO, I only saw them only as fellow sailors, not gay sailors or anything else. I didn't run out of the open bay showers when a gay sailor came in or feel uncomfortable at all. If anything, we ended up chatting about workload, leave, food, Norfolk...

Let's all agree & hope that repealing DADT goes well on all fronts and that everyone can serve with an air of mutual respect, trust, dedication to duty and continue keeping the greatest nation on God's green earth free and safe from oppression, both here and abroad.


Take care and have a great week.

J


_________________________
My CSA story TRIGGERS!!!!

The hottest place in Hell is reserved for those who remain neutral in times of great moral conflict. Rev. Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.

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