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#349722 - 01/04/11 12:43 AM can one be gay and be a survior?
survivedwithlife Offline


Registered: 01/02/11
Posts: 2
it took me two years after coming forword with the truth about the abuse that i came to the concludion that yes one can be gay and be a surivor of sexul abuse. in 2005 when i came forword i was so confused about me being gay or liking men/guys becouse of the abuse. my faith or as most people see it as there religion had alot to do with what i was thinking within the two years. Im not gay! its a sin! that what i would tell myself. o you confused the church would say. trying to cast out demens out of me. the truth is, i was leting what i was rased up in deside for me that i was not gay and that god doesn't make gay people. it took a loving parshle care program to tell me that its ok to be gay and it what i realy thought about me and not my belivfs. now god my not of intened there to be gay people but he loves everyone and that inclueds gays too. so ive been a poud gay christian since 2007. ive larned that the church is made up of man and that it doesn't matter what they think of me. God love me a much as he did when he created me 20 some years ago. i want you to know that yes you can be gay and be sexuly abuse. being abuse doesn't change who you where born liking. it just makes it harder to sort out. but those that are suggleing remeaber god or who ever you believe in and mybe that might be yourself. They love you and so do i. give it some time like i did and your see the true you. i hope that this has helped those that are still confused out there sexulty.



Edited by survivedwithlife (01/04/11 12:49 AM)

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#349729 - 01/04/11 07:35 AM Re: can one be gay and be a survior? [Re: survivedwithlife]
sono Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 07/19/09
Posts: 1069
Oh yes, survivedwiththelife, one can definitely be gay and be a survivor! Sexual abuse has to do with the power quotient and that has nothing to do with orientation. I'm so glad you were able to overcome various christian teachings to feel positive about yourself...I feel very sad for those who are tethered to various prejudicial belief systems.

I had to deal with many issues like this. Although I'm not gay, I for many years gave my perp a free ride because he "thought I was gay" as if that made it OK. I give him no free rides now, the man's a child molester...period.

All the best,

Sono

_________________________
the family
the perp

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#349730 - 01/04/11 07:41 AM Re: can one be gay and be a survior? [Re: survivedwithlife]
james 1959 Offline


Registered: 02/17/10
Posts: 283
Well said God loves us all for who we are in life after all he is the creator of all.

_________________________
We are brothers on a journey,and companions on the road
We are here to help each other share the burden and the Load

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#349735 - 01/04/11 08:42 AM Re: can one be gay and be a survior? [Re: james 1959]
Mountainous Buck Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 12/15/09
Posts: 1626
Loc: Minnesota
Welcome to MS survived! May 2011'be a year of thriving for you.

I just remembered a phrase a neighbor told me after a huge hailstorm wrecked a lot of he trees in my yard-leaves were shredded in late spring from the north side of all the trees and there were two inches of hail on th ground .

The phrase about recovering trees: after the ravaging:

-the first year they sleep
-the second year they creep
-the third year they leap

As regard to orientation-my experience is that I needed to clear away the anger, fear, and confusion about my sexuality that had been ravaged by the abuse. I also needed time out (several months, actually) from any kind of sexual expression (I was very comPulsive and cycling in a loop of sexual acting out that kept the abuse alive deep inside instead of starving it and mstartong the work of removing it from my life).

Then a true and loving and intimate sexuality emerged as I learned safety
And intimacy with my emotions, men around me, and with myself and my God.
I got the growth and development inside that the abuses robbed me of-

To sin in my definition, means I am missing the mark.'as a victim I was condemned to miss aim all my life-recovery let's me gt rid of the garbage of the past and start anew.

There is no higher love.

_________________________
We have to take responsibility for what we're not responsible for.

“It doesn't matter where you've come from,
It matters where you go" Frank Turner

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#349757 - 01/04/11 12:42 PM Re: can one be gay and be a survior? [Re: survivedwithlife]
petercorbett Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 07/27/08
Posts: 2430
Loc: TEXAS
Hi, my fraternal brother,

First welcome to MS. Here you will receive compassion, understanding & love, from your brothers (fraternal) & friends in pain.

We all have been there. We have been into the depths of our soul & hell too.

I will go along with you that we can be gay and a survivor. I applaud your out look on being gay. And that person that we call God or whatever really loves us.

So, my gay fraternal brother, survivedwithlife heal well.

" will take that lost boys hand, and i will lead him from the depths of darkness, into the sunlight. forever into eternity." As he is me.

Pete..Irishmoose.

_________________________
Working Boys' Home 10-14 yrs old, grades 5-8. 1949-1953
____________________________________________________________
A very humble alumni of the WOR Dahlonega, GA.
May 15-17 2009, Alta, Sep. 2009. Sequoia, 2010.
Hope Springs, 2010.


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#349765 - 01/04/11 04:30 PM Re: can one be gay and be a survior? [Re: petercorbett]
Jaifian Offline


Registered: 05/26/09
Posts: 220
Loc: washington state, USA
Yeah, I've been through the same process of sorting out my sexual identity from the abuse.

It's a common myth that kids can be turned into homosexuals through abuse just as it's a myth about homosexuals that they are all out to get everyone's kids and turn them into homosexuals.

It's all part of the oppression of gays and that's just the tip of the homophobia ice berg.

Once we get our own understanding right about it, the next step is being able to defend yourself against those ideas and be able to educate those who still hold them.


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#349766 - 01/04/11 04:31 PM Re: can one be gay and be a survior? [Re: survivedwithlife]
h.beat,h.break Offline


Registered: 06/05/09
Posts: 124
Loc: New York
There are a lot of things God didn't intend, but they happened and they are here and now we must deal with them. I'm glad that you have found out for yourself that you are indeed loved by God and that your sexuality doesn't nullify his love whatsoever.

Besides, people who aren't gay are still sinners, so I doubt God isn't making such a big deal about it when so many of them already make up his church. The important thing is to love your neighbor as yourself which is the greatest commandment of all. wink

_________________________
Hey, if "black sheep" means you're the only non-douche of the family, take that with some pride.

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#350290 - 01/10/11 05:22 PM Re: can one be gay and be a survior? [Re: h.beat,h.break]
Geist Offline


Registered: 12/09/10
Posts: 25
Loc: Virginia,US
Wow.....I'm not sure how to really talk about any of this. You guys go pretty deep, I don't know if your used to this by now or what. I think it's gonna' take me some time to talk about it. No one helped that knew years ago so, I grew up thinking it didn't matter and became callous towards myself. More power to you guys.


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#350291 - 01/10/11 06:24 PM Re: can one be gay and be a survior? [Re: Geist]
Magellan Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 12/31/10
Posts: 1363
Loc: California
I identify as gay, and I'm a survivor.

My particular life path landed me in San Francisco at age 20 to go to college.

Before I had moved to San Francisco, I spent many years in my teens struggling with sexual orientation and acceptance and feeling dirty and sinful.

But I did my reading and my homework - homosexual expression happens ALL OVER NATURE. It has happened all throughout history. It's even painted on cave walls from prehistoric days.

Homosexuality is a natural expression of sexuality, period.

Our struggle is to untangle the boundary/self-worth/intimacy/trust/power issues that were thrust on us as kids. Ours is a disease of the Self - our abusers took away from us our god given right to explore our own bodies and our own sexuality on our own time, at our own pace, and of our own free will.

I have come to a complete acceptance of my sexuality - IT DOESN'T DEFINE ME. Just like the abuse NO LONGER DEFINES ME. It is a part of who I am, transmutable, and changing with time and experience. I accept it.

I hope that you can also come to a place of acceptance, regardless if you identify as gay, or straight, or questioning or bisexual. Self acceptance is so important.

Your brother in spirit,

D



Edited by tdillon (01/18/11 05:59 PM)
_________________________
It's a heroes journey, and you are the hero.

-- I must remind myself that sugar is my enemy. I can't control my sugar consumption and sugar makes me mentally unstable. I'm reminding myself (because I forgot again).

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#350313 - 01/10/11 10:06 PM Re: can one be gay and be a survior? [Re: Magellan]
weharry1959 Offline


Registered: 11/13/10
Posts: 66
Loc: N/W Pennsylvania, USA
God not only loves you, but he likes you too! I hard lesson learned.

Bill

_________________________
Forgiving does not always mean everything goes back to the way it was. There are still natural consequences for what was done.

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#350324 - 01/11/11 12:09 AM Re: can one be gay and be a survior? [Re: weharry1959]
diamondheart Offline
Member

Registered: 02/25/01
Posts: 157
Loc: Michigan
For me, it has been a struggle being out/gay but if I had a choice I wouldn't change a thing, well at least the part of me being gay...

I was raised Southern Baptist, the whole fire and brimstone philosphy of living. Honestly it scared me senseless. To the point where I just threw religion, god and everything else related to it away... I knew I was gay, born that way... I couldn't stop being gay... but I could stop being religious...

It has only been recently that I have started to connect to my own spirituality... I think in the end, I had to find my own way to my higher power. My faith is a different than the christian faith and especially the way I was raised on. I no longer beleive that I or anyone else is going to hell.

Yes, strides have been made when it comes to gay rights and how others feel about it but there are still others who not only think its wrong and we are going to hell, but they treat others who are gay badly... It is hard to not take it personal and get a complex... That is what I did, I let my families feelings towards religion and being gay cloud who I was...

I too was letting others determine who I was and that has affected me very deeply. I am tired of living in fear... I even let them steal my spirituality. They have stolen so much, I won't allow them to take that as well...

I find it sad that others rob those who are glbtq from having their own kind of spirituality, whatever it is. For me, with my healing, it has become very important. I like to think of my higher power as Mother Earth... It helps to comfort me... Faith to me is hope....

This certainly isn't a tough world we live in and not just for gay people. Acceptance is hard thing to do deal with especially when you add in religion. Growing up anyone that is different is isolated and picked on... Plus if you add family dysfuction and CSA, it all can be too confusing when you are trying to figure everything out, especially your sexuality...

_________________________
I am a gay guy just trying to find my way...

http://itismytimetoshine.wordpress.com

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#350331 - 01/11/11 03:03 AM Re: can one be gay and be a survior? [Re: diamondheart]
Magellan Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 12/31/10
Posts: 1363
Loc: California
I hear you Brother,

I was also raised in a southern baptist / evangelical christian family. My mom remarried when I was 5 to a traveling evangelist preacher.

He retired his preaching but was still fervently involved in southern baptist. It was traumatizing to me as well. Not only did I have questions about what was going on with the abuse, but couldn't ask, and assumed it was normal - but I had serious questions about what the Bible was saying and how I saw reality. For a while there, I simply denied reality and decided to follow Jesus Christ and started carrying my bible to school. I came damn close to being one of those kids standing on the street corner preaching.

But puberty hit me. And it was like God was cursing me. I'd done everything right and here I was living this miserable life, and whammo, puberty confirms a growing suspicion . I'm gay. I was so angry for so long about that.

Acceptance is hard, but achievable. For me it meant exploring my sexuality, exploring my feelings, meeting other gay guys and talking to them about my issues and listening to them about theirs. I soon realized that I was normal, and it was society that has to do some growing up.

We gay folk have the added bonus of being privy to a little known secret - that the world *IS* changing, and is heading in OUR direction. We're just ahead of the curve.

Your mentioning finding Spirituality is awesome. I also think that's an integral part of recovery. After becoming an athiest, I refound my "higher power" last year, and am satisfied with my relationship to it thus far.

Glad to meet you as we both boldly go forward.

D



Edited by tdillon (01/18/11 05:59 PM)
_________________________
It's a heroes journey, and you are the hero.

-- I must remind myself that sugar is my enemy. I can't control my sugar consumption and sugar makes me mentally unstable. I'm reminding myself (because I forgot again).

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#350990 - 01/16/11 11:31 PM Re: can one be gay and be a survior? [Re: survivedwithlife]
lostcowboy Offline
Member

Registered: 11/10/04
Posts: 796
Loc: North Texas
_________________________
"Don't walk in front of me, I may not follow. Don't walk behind me, I may not lead. Just walk beside me and be my friend." - Albert Camus
Pretty much my life as I have posted so far. Triggers!

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#352449 - 01/31/11 08:56 AM Re: can one be gay and be a survior? [Re: lostcowboy]
many_mees Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/23/09
Posts: 286
I'll add my voice to this growing list of guys in response.
I have always liked guys. Always. Am I gay? i'd like to say that I enjoy relationships with men in all aspects, including sexual. if that makes me "gay" then so be it. I lable myself "Bi" because I can enjoy sex with either sex, male or female.

Be that as it may, i was also one of the So. Baptist kids who was scared to death about death and hell and sin. God had been this Big Bad guy who was condemning of everything. Well, now in my late 50's Im having a crisis in my "religious" walk, and it isn't working for me anymore.

I go to church, listen to the same rhetoric about how God hates sin (and apparently me cause I am Bi)and walk away from it feeling more and more condemned than when I began a Christian walk.

So I'm leaving the faith. I'll continue to take my wife cause she enjoys it. It is all she has ever known of life. But i myself am just the tranportation.

As to the question. "Can one be gay and be a survivor?"

Absolutely! I'm one and I don't doubt there are millions of others. And, btw, God loves us ALL.

just my 2cents.


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#352572 - 02/01/11 08:31 PM Re: can one be gay and be a survior? [Re: many_mees]
Avery46 Offline


Registered: 09/23/10
Posts: 1243
Loc: USA
Absolutely, one can be gay and a survivor.

I believe we are born with sexuality alone - with a preference one for the other or even both. THE CSA or being a survivor is a HUGE complication for ALL.

WE can be subdivided into being assaulted by A/one man or woman or a combination of men and women. This just complicates it.

After being "out" for 20 years AFTER being married and now during recovery of the CSA I am STILL and loving accept my attractions to men and women.

HOPE this helps, You will find your own path.

Donnie

_________________________
aka DJsport

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#352769 - 02/04/11 07:23 AM Re: can one be gay and be a survior? [Re: Avery46]
1.healing Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 09/10/10
Posts: 261
Loc: NW Ohio
The wisdom of you guys here is wonderful; you're making the world a more loving, accepting and much better place to be.

_________________________
"It's never too late to be what you might have been."

George Elliot

"You cannot find peace by avoiding life."

Virginia Woolf

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#352907 - 02/05/11 08:44 PM Re: can one be gay and be a survior? [Re: 1.healing]
oriolesguy Offline


Registered: 08/12/08
Posts: 105
Loc: Long Island, NY
OK.... I'll chime in on this one.

Perhaps my opinion is out of line, because I'm straight. But here's what I think.

First of all, rape is not primarily an act of sex. It is an act of violence, first and foremost. It is an act of control and degradation. Sex is the means that perpetrators use to exhibit those things. For years I thought there must be something wrong with ME. Not so.

I can't see this as a gay/straight issue. If I were raped by a woman, I wouldn't ask myself, "Can one be straight and be a survivor?" The question is being a survivor, period. Clearly a survivor may examine their sexuality, their sexual behavior, and all that. And I think therapy can help in sorting all that out. But I think (at least I hope) that gay guys who have been raped can move forward and lead healthy fulfilling lives.

We're all in it together. Everyone who is a rape victim, male or female, gay or straight, has to analyze how it has affected them. Yes, it affects our relationships, and our lives. But being raped can't make someone gay, any more than it can make a person straight. I think we're all pre-programmed there. Nor does it make the victim a pervert, a psycho, a second class citizen, demented or any of that other shit. It simply makes us victims.

All of us need fulfillment in our personal and sexual lives. Rape can be a major setback to that, but hopefully we can recover, and help/understand other guys who are in this position. In the end, gay or straight.... doesn't matter.

oriolesguy


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#352933 - 02/06/11 12:53 PM Re: can one be gay and be a survior? [Re: oriolesguy]
Avery46 Offline


Registered: 09/23/10
Posts: 1243
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: oriolesguy
....It is an act of violence, first and foremost. It is an act of control and degradation. Sex is the means that perpetrators use to exhibit those things.


I have probably been told the above before BUT, I finally get it.

I have inappropriately been putting my sexual preference in the same "box" as the sexual assault.

Thanks, oriolesguy for making the above statement.

Donnie

_________________________
aka DJsport

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#363263 - 05/30/11 02:53 AM Re: can one be gay and be a survior? [Re: weharry1959]
elsnorlax143 Offline


Registered: 05/30/11
Posts: 2
Loc: New York
this has touched me profoundly in a way that i desperately needed. i'm sitting here in tears because i've never been able to really speak about what happened with many people. i've spent my life trying to fix myself in the name of god, trying to be straight and cast off the shackles that the abuse i went through gave me but this helped me realize that these are not shackles, they are simply a part of who i am. it is going to take some time, but i definitely plan on embracing who i am. thank you for your testimony, it is powerful and it was just what i needed.

-D


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#365402 - 07/04/11 02:15 AM Re: can one be gay and be a survior? [Re: elsnorlax143]
lostcowboy Offline
Member

Registered: 11/10/04
Posts: 796
Loc: North Texas
I posted this already, but the web site moved stuff around. If you go to homosexuality you will find a very interesting bible study. In the study it states that some parts of the bible were translated wrong.

_________________________
"Don't walk in front of me, I may not follow. Don't walk behind me, I may not lead. Just walk beside me and be my friend." - Albert Camus
Pretty much my life as I have posted so far. Triggers!

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#365508 - 07/05/11 09:14 PM Re: can one be gay and be a survior? [Re: lostcowboy]
petercorbett Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 07/27/08
Posts: 2430
Loc: TEXAS
Hi, my fraternal brothers.

My remarks on this.

As a shy & lonely gay boy/man. I have tried to connect with a religion/church/community, that accepts me (as a child of God) into their fold. One that does not condemn me to hell. Or tells me that I am not in God's image or likeness (Catholic beliefs). I do not belong in his church, as God intended, as I continue to live in sin.

About two months ago a brother of mine here in MS gave me an address where I could connect with other gay persons in a community social atmosphere. Mainly to try and shed some of my shyness & isolation. Spirituality wasn't in my plan then.

So, I became a member of the Gay/Lesbian MCC community, in Joplin. MO.

We tend to isolate ourselves, from others because of what happened yo us.

So there I have found both a community of like persons, Gay & lesbian. We socialise together. Thus for me, trying to move further out from my shyness & isolation in intermingling with others. I was not judged. I was welcomed with open minds & hearts.

At the same time making a move in my spirituality. My MCC community is exclusively for Gay persons. The pastor is himself gay & in a partnership, as I'm sure the others are also. At the current time I am alone. I am welcomed to participate in their church services, when I am ready to accept God's graces.

We,can be gay & survivors. We can accept spirituality from a church that accepts us as children of God. Something that you certainly can not find in the Catholic religion & possibly the Southern Baptist as well.

In summary, I am Gay. I can have spirituality in the MCC community. And I will be a survivor..eventually.

My two cents worth.

Heal well, my fraternal brothers, heal well.

"I will take that lost boys hand, and I will lead him from the depths of darkness, into the sunshine, forever into eternity." As he is me.

Pete..Irishmoose.

_________________________
Working Boys' Home 10-14 yrs old, grades 5-8. 1949-1953
____________________________________________________________
A very humble alumni of the WOR Dahlonega, GA.
May 15-17 2009, Alta, Sep. 2009. Sequoia, 2010.
Hope Springs, 2010.


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#365672 - 07/08/11 02:06 PM Re: can one be gay and be a survior? [Re: petercorbett]
cris40ky Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 06/20/11
Posts: 188
Loc: KY, US
MCC is an awesome place and present in many communities.


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#367610 - 08/07/11 10:53 AM Re: can one be gay and be a survior? [Re: cris40ky]
prisonerID Offline
Greeter Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/17/08
Posts: 1247
Loc: Oklahoma
If I could not be gay and a survivor then I would not be a true survivor in my life. I happen to be both.


Daryl

_________________________
Broad statements often miss their true mark.

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#367624 - 08/07/11 03:56 PM Re: can one be gay and be a survior? [Re: prisonerID]
Driftwood Offline


Registered: 05/27/11
Posts: 86
Loc: Colorado
Sometimes the simplest statements can be profound. Thank you, Daryl.

I would put myself in the same category. Being an adult gay man is in itself a form of survival. There’s still a strong anti-gay element out there, and it’s not easy to go against a system that insists, sometimes vehemently, there’s something wrong with you. To embrace who you are despite being different challenges other people. And people get nervous when their worldview is challenged. If they get fearful enough, they’ll attack you. Being gay means we often have to fight just to be ourselves. It may be somewhat easier now, but it still takes courage and valor to go against the grain and stand up for who you are.


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#367678 - 08/08/11 05:02 AM Re: can one be gay and be a survior? [Re: lostcowboy]
michael Joseph Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 03/11/01
Posts: 2719
Loc: Virginia
ty

_________________________
Standing together is so much better than hiding in the dark.
***I am a three time WoR Retreat Alumni***
The Round Table, Men's CSA Group, Monday 7:30pm CST, MaleSurvivor Chat

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#367679 - 08/08/11 05:03 AM Re: can one be gay and be a survior? [Re: michael Joseph]
michael Joseph Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 03/11/01
Posts: 2719
Loc: Virginia
google gay men's project they are also a good resource even if you are not a victim of domestic violence

_________________________
Standing together is so much better than hiding in the dark.
***I am a three time WoR Retreat Alumni***
The Round Table, Men's CSA Group, Monday 7:30pm CST, MaleSurvivor Chat

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#367681 - 08/08/11 07:54 AM Re: can one be gay and be a survior? [Re: Driftwood]
prisonerID Offline
Greeter Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/17/08
Posts: 1247
Loc: Oklahoma
Driftwood,

Thanks for your wise comments here and for sharing thoughts that so many of us can identify with on many levels.


Daryl

_________________________
Broad statements often miss their true mark.

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#367791 - 08/09/11 03:38 PM Re: can one be gay and be a survior? [Re: prisonerID]
Juan Offline


Registered: 11/04/10
Posts: 20
Deleted



Edited by Juan (01/05/12 09:00 AM)

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#367934 - 08/11/11 02:52 PM Re: can one be gay and be a survior? [Re: Juan]
Aberrant30 Offline


Registered: 01/29/10
Posts: 139
Loc: I live on the Emerald Coast, F...
one can be gay and a survivor i am.

_________________________
"The beginning of eternity
The end of time and space
The beginning of every end,
And the end of every place."
Hint: It's in front of you right now.
(Formerly known as Aberrant30

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#368308 - 08/17/11 02:52 AM Re: can one be gay and be a survior? [Re: weharry1959]
1lifenow Offline


Registered: 03/07/11
Posts: 385
Loc: west coast
Gay and Surviving here( hands waiving overhead like horshack on welcome back kotter) http://youtu.be/Jpb-Fd2rFuE

I'd go as far as Thriving. No longer Conniving and now Re-aliving. A move towards peace as my inner self and outer world are now Jiving. Being there for those i love and care about, without worry of causation or labels or judgement is the only aim I find worth Striving(4). But as rhyming syntax goes , this one is Diving,lol.


A sense of humour, a realization that some of us will be gay regardless of personal expectation, and an acceptance that it is as ok to be gay as it is to be not gay - all assist in understanding.

Its sort of like saying can one be left handed, have a counter clockwise crown swirl or be attracted to certain pheromones and be a survivor? The question can be intriguing but the point is moot. When dealing with complex issues, its always best to consider more than one author. I thought he was always into spinach, but to quote the tuber loving Popeye:
" i yam what i yam" Ok its late , sue me.



Edited by 1lifenow (08/29/11 03:19 AM)
Edit Reason: i got a bad spelling gene
_________________________
The need for love lies at the very foundation of human existence. Dalai Lama

WoR Barrie 2011

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#368318 - 08/17/11 07:57 AM Re: can one be gay and be a survior? [Re: 1lifenow]
prisonerID Offline
Greeter Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/17/08
Posts: 1247
Loc: Oklahoma
1lifenow, I thoroughly enjoyed this!


Daryl

_________________________
Broad statements often miss their true mark.

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#369132 - 08/30/11 02:53 PM Re: can one be gay and be a survior? [Re: weharry1959]
tazcub36 Offline


Registered: 08/27/11
Posts: 15
Loc: united kingdom
Iam new here and a survivor and gay too...like the original poster I too for a long time was confused, angry and into minds about my sexuality.
But I say you can be gay and be a survivor... and had an amazing partner now deceaseed who taught me , the difference and showed me real love.

_________________________
Moving On, Moving forward...at the end recovery.

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#370382 - 09/17/11 07:05 PM Re: can one be gay and be a survior? [Re: tazcub36]
Vadrian Offline


Registered: 09/10/11
Posts: 110
Loc: Pacific
I am gay and a survivor. I'm very glad to be gay, and no it isn't related to my abuse at all. Almost no straight men ever ask themselves if their heterosexuality was caused by abuse (and therefore if they should change it in order to have a healthy gay relationship), and since homosexuality is just as natural, good, and beautiful, I see no reason why we should.



Edited by Vadrian (09/17/11 07:06 PM)

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#370452 - 09/18/11 03:17 PM Re: can one be gay and be a survior? [Re: lostcowboy]
overcomer4life Offline


Registered: 02/25/09
Posts: 198
Wow. Opinions really do vary, and I respect each of you for how you feel. I guess I am the exception, in a sense.

For the first 8 or 9 years of my life, I was forced into one sexual encounter or another with a male. I have ALWAYS wanted a wife and a family. Unfortunately, those first 8 or 9 years painted a picture of "normal" for me and I accepted it as being just that. From time to time, I crave the attention/affection of a man....I do, however, believe that God made man for woman. I've read it. I believe the Bible to be the Word of God. So, I am in constant conflict because....I DON'T WANT TO BE GAY OR BISEXUAL. I want to be a straight man who enjoys being with one woman, having a family, and so forth.

I pray regularly for God to take the desire away from me. Aside from my personal views, it pains me to KNOW that I am living something that His word says I shouldn't be. I still crave it and YES I still give in to what my flesh wants from time to time, but it hurts me terribly.

I do not believe that I was born this way, nor do I accept that I was "meant" to be this way. My CSA was all I knew about sex and/or affection for the first 8 or 9 years of my life. It was my "normal". But the reason I have sex and the reason God created sex are completely different. I want to have a stronger mind and heart to always choose His way. It's not easy, but I am making strides daily.

Don't throw stones at me if you don't agree...I just think it's time for the world to see that there are people who are gay/bisexual and REALLY don't want to be. If only there was a light switch that you could turn off and never turn it on again...


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#370466 - 09/18/11 05:26 PM Re: can one be gay and be a survior? [Re: overcomer4life]
Driftwood Offline


Registered: 05/27/11
Posts: 86
Loc: Colorado
Overcomer,
What a heartfelt post you’ve given us. Your words are clear and respectful, and I can identify with the pain you must feel. I spent four years in Bible college praying and fasting to become straight, though (perhaps unlike you) I knew I was gay, was gay before I was ever abused, and knew deep down my homosexuality had nothing to do with the abuse.

It’s tough, if not impossible to change one’s sexual orientation. You may be straight and experiencing same sex attraction only because of your abuse. That’s evidently a genuine experience some men have, and others on this site have written at length about it. Or you may be gay and fighting it. No one can determine that for you. You’re the only one who can figure it out.

I will offer the suggestion, though, that a homosexual orientation is a real thing and that homosexual persons should never be devalued or discounted. A percentage of adolescents who’ve not been sexually abused discover when they’re 12 or 13 (or even younger) that they’re attracted to the same sex, and that it’s not just a passing thing but rather a part of their intrinsic make-up as human beings. If you believe in God and believe homosexuality is wrong, it’s hard to take these children into account. Where do their feelings come from if not from God? They’re children. If being gay is an intrinsic part of their make-up, the only logical answer is that homosexuality, alongside heterosexuality, is just another expression of the divine.

I don’t know if you’re gay or straight. If you’re straight, I hope you succeed in overcoming those same sex urges. If you’re really gay, I hope you come to embrace who you are as an expression of the divine. Whichever it is, I’m sorry for your struggle. Peace to you.


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#370493 - 09/19/11 12:03 AM Re: can one be gay and be a survior? [Re: Driftwood]
overcomer4life Offline


Registered: 02/25/09
Posts: 198
Thanks. I believe what I read...and that's that God created man for woman for the purpose of reproduction. My urges and desires OFTEN crave affection/attention from a man...but I know what I read and believe to be the roadmap for how Christians are to live. I don't think God hates gays at all. However, I do believe that we are faced daily with a choice to do things HIS way or do what we want. I really want to do it HIS way (based on what I have read and believe to be true). But again...that's just me. I don't condemn anyone for doing what they feel is right. We'll all have to give an account for our actions one day according to the Bible. It is a very deep and rough struggle to say the least. Very deep. VERY rough. VERY difficult with each passing day.

Thanks for understanding. Love ya man. Really.


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#370527 - 09/19/11 01:01 PM Re: can one be gay and be a survior? [Re: survivedwithlife]
Czaesar72 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 04/24/10
Posts: 210
Loc: California, USA
SurvivedwithLife,

Welcome to the MS community! I am very pleased that a lot of our brothers jumped in to welcome you and support you; everyone have shared their wisdom with you. I hope that you got the answer you're seeking.

I was born into a hard core Catholic family and therefore I was a hardcore Catholic myself until I was sexually abused by three different priests. Like you I had my doubts and in my case I was dealing with a lot of shame.

I kept hearing, that I was not worthy of going to heaven and so on, so I tried to fight the fact that I am gay and one thing I happened to read in the bible is that "God is Love", so If God is love, how can He hate me? God loves everyone!!!

I believe you said something that is so true, that religion is led by men (mankind), and as men it's going to be shaped the way the way the majority of
them think it should be, and then they brake their own rules.

I'd say to you God loves you just like He loves everyone else regardless of your sexual orientation. Being a survivor of sexual abuse and being gay is two different things. You can't count the abuse as an actual sex act, it was abuse,! Regardless of the perpetrator's gender. Lots of our brothers have said so many great and wise things about this subject, but I will quote Daryl because he puts it very simply:

Quote:
If I could not be gay and a survivor then I would not be a true survivor in my life. I happen to be both.


I identify with that myself. It took me years to accept myself, just the way I am. A survivor and a gay man, and I'm happy to have accepted myself just the way I am. If i cannot love myself the way I am, how can I expect someone else to love me the same way?

We are all survivors and we all welcome you as such, regardless of your sexual orientation and/or your religious believes. I think no one can say they are a true Christian if they are not capable of loving everyone else as they love themselves, just like God loves everyone because I was always told "God is Love", and, he loves unconditionally, so I keep that in mind when anyone tries to make me believe that God does not loves me for being gay.

Again, welcome our survivor brother, no one is here to judge you, but to heal and if someone has an issue with who are, let it be their issue not yours, here or anywhere else. May you find the healing you seek.

So, to answer your question. Yes, you can be gay and a survivor.


Sincerely,

_________________________
Alejandro
A very grateful Alumni of the Level I WoR Sequoia 2011, Ben Lohmond, CA, USA
and Advanced WoR Alta 2011, Alta, UT, USA.

The strength of a man isn't in the weight he can lift; it is the burdens he can understand and overcome.

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#370531 - 09/19/11 03:19 PM Re: can one be gay and be a survior? [Re: overcomer4life]
cris40ky Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 06/20/11
Posts: 188
Loc: KY, US
[quote=overcomer4life
I pray regularly for God to take the desire away from me. Aside from my personal views, it pains me to KNOW that I am living something that His word says I shouldn't be. I still crave it and YES I still give in to what my flesh wants from time to time, but it hurts me terribly.

I do not believe that I was born this way, nor do I accept that I was "meant" to be this way. [/quote]

I most certainly wish to "throw no stones" !! But I spent about 8yrs battling this very issue. I couldn't accept my orientation either. I was married for seven years then spent another 8 wrestling with God about it. I wish I could save you some time here.

The mind is a powerful organ. It responds from a history of abuse clouding our present desires. Especially where sexuality is concerned. Internalized shame and guilt hides behind what we face day to day and is definitely affecting you as you think about your sexual orientation. That's even before you bring God into the picture. That's a whole separate issue.

For me, I was a seminarian. Convinced of God's call with a wife and two kids. It was when I was in Grad school working on a Pastoral Counseling degree that I began facing the abuse, then my orientation, and then the "God & Homosexuality" issue. I was a Southern Baptist, so that tells you how I thought of myself as being gay.

My heartfelt advice is to please start with compassion for yourself! Where you are is simply where you are. It's not where you will be. With a good therapist look at the shame forced upon you. Accept that you are a work in progress. Truth will sort itself out from there.

And with God; It has been my experience that what is really true is usually the simplest things.

My abuse taught me to doubt my own mind. Not to trust my own experiences but to look to something above reproach to believe in and follow. But when I learned to believe in myself more and see authority figures more realistically, I found the Bible to be no more reliable than any other human wisdom: human and imperfect.


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#370613 - 09/20/11 11:33 PM Re: can one be gay and be a survior? [Re: cris40ky]
overcomer4life Offline


Registered: 02/25/09
Posts: 198
Cris40ky, that's a fair analysis. No stones were thrown and I appreciate your approach to my statement.

I hear you...and you're right about the shame. I was ridiculed and beat up as a kid because I had ways that were feminine. My dad never taught me how to fight. The list goes on...

Being "trapped" in this lifestyle (being bisexual) for 38 years - soon to be 39, I can't help but wonder what it would be like to be straight. I want to be! I REALLY want to be! I'm not saying that gay guys aren't men, but I want to know what it's like to be a man...one who prefers women...marries ONE woman...has a family...and achieves some degree of "normal" before I die.

Thanks for the advice man. Seriously.


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#370621 - 09/21/11 12:39 AM Re: can one be gay and be a survior? [Re: overcomer4life]
WalkingSouth Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/30/05
Posts: 16263
Gentlemen,

Please remember that this forum, the "Gay/Bi/Trans Survivors" forum, is a place for "Discussions among male survivors about issues specific to being a survivor and gay, bi, or transgender." Posts or threads that discuss issues of conflicted feelings over one's sexual identity or over same sex attraction vs. gay are not necessarily appropriate to this forum and would better discussed in the "Sexual Identity Issues" forum.

Thanks

_________________________
“Life’s journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting ‘Holy ____…! What a ride!’” ~Hunter S. Thompson

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#370869 - 09/23/11 07:40 PM Re: can one be gay and be a survior? [Re: WalkingSouth]
NewSummer Offline


Registered: 09/01/11
Posts: 59
Loc: Surrey BC
I am gay and I am survivor. Period. I was born this way. It took me 42 years to accept the fact but it just is... I have spent to many years in shame and guilt to keep questioning why I am, and to accept that it just is. It is OK to be me. I am gay. To stop questioning why I am gay and accept it has cleared the way for me to deal with the pain of the abuse.

_________________________
life is what happens while you make other plans- John Lennon

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#370928 - 09/24/11 12:11 PM Re: can one be gay and be a survior? [Re: NewSummer]
MartinB Offline


Registered: 09/13/11
Posts: 22
Loc: New Jersey
I am not gay, but I believe men and women are born gay. I think those who were abused did not become gay but instead were abused in spite of their sexuality.

A man raping a male child is not gay sex, in my heterosexual opinion. Just as I would feel that a woman raping a male child isn't heterosexual sex either. It's pedophilia. You don't have to be gay or straight to be a pedophile, even if the abuser is the same gender as the child they are abusing.

This is why I think it is so important that people know who their kids are spending time around. Heterosexual women can also be abusers who perpetrate on female children. Sexual abuse knows no gender, nor sexual preference, nor religious, ethical, or racial status.

I'm glad for those who have come to terms with their sexuality. What kind of man would I be if I didn't think your level of love and commitment could be equal to my own?

_________________________
Please call me Martin. One of my abusers would call me "Marty" and it just brings back too many awful memories.

Courage is what it takes to stand up and speak; courage is also what it takes to sit down and listen.- Winston Churchill

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#370941 - 09/24/11 02:55 PM Re: can one be gay and be a survior? [Re: MartinB]
zraver Offline


Registered: 09/23/11
Posts: 31
Loc: Conway, Arkansas
Who cares, born or chosen our sexuality is just part of who we are. Gay or straight doesn't matter unless your partner has different attraction. Other than that I've not found a single thing a straight man can do that a gay man can't and vice versa. We are built the same, to the same blue print by nature- some bigger, some smaller etc but all men.

_________________________
How can some stuff last so long and be so fresh and yet I can't have that memory for good stuff.

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#370987 - 09/25/11 12:04 AM Re: can one be gay and be a survior? [Re: zraver]
kinghenri Offline


Registered: 05/06/09
Posts: 214
Loc: Tucson Arizona
Of course!!!!! silly :-)

_________________________
"In my life, I have seen,
People walk into the sea,
Just to find memories,
Plagued by constant misery,
Their eyes cast down,
Fixed upon the ground,
Their eyes cast down

I'll keep my eyes fixed on the sun"

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#370993 - 09/25/11 02:39 AM Re: can one be gay and be a survior? [Re: survivedwithlife]
Emotions Offline


Registered: 02/07/10
Posts: 4
Loc: NY
I would hope so. Sometimes I still struggle with the idea that maybe my abuse made me gay but I've never been attracted to women and I think I've known I was different since I was five I have no attraction to women at all so I've accepted, I'm closeted but I've accepted it.


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#371030 - 09/25/11 04:26 PM Re: can one be gay and be a survior? [Re: Emotions]
weharry1959 Offline


Registered: 11/13/10
Posts: 66
Loc: N/W Pennsylvania, USA
Yes! plain and simple is that anytime that anyone takes away your ability to say "no" either as a child or as an adult (regardless of gender) it is abuse. Just because you are gay, doesn't make it right or acceptable. I had an uncle who told me that because I had an erection and orgasm that I liked it and wanted it. I didn't and it's been a hard journey to accept that my body responded to stimulization like anyone else would. He also told me that I was queer or fag (terms from my era)and that it's what all queers/fags do. As a young boy/teen, I was really confused. I now know who I am and know that abuse is abuse. Don't allow others or yourself convince yourself that sexual abuse was inevitable. I would also like to share that I've read on this site, Adult Males struggling with Same Sex Attraction and that there is some discussion that Heterosexual men having those feelings maybe trying to place themselves in a control situation that was taken away from them while they were sexually abused. My best suggestion is for you to followup with Therapist and Hosts of this site or your therapist (if you have one). I am a married man, two kids, but have struggled with my abuse on so many different levels. what I've told myself and what I am are finally coming together.

_________________________
Forgiving does not always mean everything goes back to the way it was. There are still natural consequences for what was done.

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#371364 - 09/30/11 02:41 AM Re: can one be gay and be a survior? [Re: MartinB]
naturesprince Offline


Registered: 09/29/11
Posts: 1
a sexual abuser is dead in his/her soul so s/he cannot enjoy the treasure and plesures of ex-sensual world like love, peace, bliss, truth, purity, knowledge and power. To get them through their senses, they indulge into sexuality wherein the media is immaterial, and since children are innocent, easily available so they become victims. But such victimised children should not give up. Infact, they can enjoy as well as other's does, even sexually or asexually both ways, provided they remove their memories of past happenings. I feel, Godly Spiritual knowledge helps in this case. Some people have got it through meditation.


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#405101 - 07/28/12 10:11 AM Re: can one be gay and be a survior? [Re: overcomer4life]
peacemaker67 Offline


Registered: 05/28/12
Posts: 44
Loc: WI
I want this to be a neutral post to you my friend. You had commented on a different post I put up a short while ago.
I never had any type of what I will term misaligned feelings for other guys within my life until my abuse. I was a very happy young guy who had a lot of memories playing ball in gradeschool, etc. until it all began. I am pretty satisfied with my marriage to my wife of 20 years, although imperfect, but I feel so loved. She is so committed. Without her I feel abandoned. She is my best friend; the only one who ever has stayed truly by me besides my family. I am not going to try to speak for anyone else. I really appreciate your voice and expression of your journey and what I think is a good and fair representation of your pursuit of faith that you somehow must have been exposed to.
_________________________
-Love is love when it is free; love is love when others don't feed on you as a "need".
-If we reach one person with betterment, and in turn that one reaches another, what power we have to change the world."
-We are all in our own prison cell and must learn ways to remove the walls so we can escape.

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#405122 - 07/28/12 01:12 PM Re: can one be gay and be a survior? [Re: survivedwithlife]
bodyguard8367 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/16/12
Posts: 1159
Loc: ""
""


Edited by bodyguard8367 (02/26/14 07:31 PM)
Edit Reason: SILENCED

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#406132 - 08/07/12 06:47 PM Re: can one be gay and be a survior? [Re: survivedwithlife]
westsidej Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 12/04/09
Posts: 148
Loc: Minnesota
Howdy my brothers,

Thank you for these thoughtful replies. Since I have been in therapy for several years and have dealt with many of these issues, please let me add my two cents (or deux centimes pour mes amis francais).

I also was told by my abusers that since I was aroused by them that I must be gay and that it's natural to do these things with them. However, I also had many heterosexual desires from before and after the abuse that told me I also straight. Due to my abuse, I was totally unable to have a healthy relationship or even talk to girls in high school. It didn't help that I was a total dork and vocational electronics shop guy in high school either. wink

After I left high school and joined the military, I thought that I left behind everything from my CSA to my awful home life that was drug and alcohol filled since I can remember. Thankfully, I avoided that trap but pray for my brothers who succomb to self-medication and hope they can sober up and enjoy at least part of their lives. However, the ssa was there throughout my military career along with my inability to communicate and date women.

After the military, I met a few girls but thanks to my past, I sabotaged every hetero relationship I entered into. I also met a few guys for sex but never wanted to have any relationship with them, just nsa hook-ups.

While I never hated gay men, I definitely had some animosity towards them due to not dealing with my csa and I blamed them for my situation instead of my parents for not protecting me and the guys and girls who abused me sexually as a child and teen. Yes, there were several and my story tells more than these few paragraphs.

Thankfully, I was able to find a great woman who has stuck by me as I finally addressed all of my abuse from the past. Granted we did separate twice and almost divorced but it was finally at that point I sought the help of a therapist to deal with all of this bovine excrement.

She not only helped me but the both of us in couple's sessions, too. My therapist not only saved our marriage but also me from self-destructing on many levels. Thank God for finding her since I have read and talked to many of my CSA brothers that a good therapist is sometimes very hard to find.

Now, after decades, I am totally okay with the fact that I will always have SSA and be aroused thinking about oral sex with men just as I do with women. I have gay friends, had two lesbians perform at our wedding (get your mind out of the gutter...they sang and played the guitar ;), go to my wife's UU church which is chock full of gays/lesbians and could care less if someone's gay or straight. While I supported DADT, I still proudly serve side by side with and trust my gay and lesbian airmen to have my back. Well, maybe not every gay guy. wink Just kidding.

Even before I sought help for my CSA, I was always okay serving with gay men in the Navy but never told them my background. Maybe because I knew what they did and so there was no mystery to their homosexual activity. Looking back, I am proud that even though I was raped and horribly abused by older gay men, I was still okay hanging out with gay sailors and can't tell you how many times I took a shower in open bays with gay men during my military career. Yes, I checked them out and no, I didn't get an erection. wink

Of course, I love all of my gay and straight brothers here on MS and would hug you if I ever get the chance to meet you in person.

As I always say, I am about 85-90% and 10-15% bi. Obviously, due to my marriage, I am unable to act on any homosexual desires but probably would if my wife gave me the okay or when she's ready, I would like to have a MFM with a bi-male. I love my family and my wife and could never see myself having a gay relationship but am very tolerant of gays, lesbians and even polyamory. Not everyone's made for MF and I now understand that.

Take care and hope my words add to the discussion and are seen as positive and affirming since that's my intention.

Heal well and have a great week.

J

P.S. I also thank God that I have such a positive outlook given all that happened to me and that I don't take any drugs or drink too much alcohol.



Edited by westsidej (08/07/12 06:57 PM)
Edit Reason: grammar & additions
_________________________
My CSA story TRIGGERS!!!!

The hottest place in Hell is reserved for those who remain neutral in times of great moral conflict. Rev. Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.

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#406214 - 08/08/12 02:35 PM Re: can one be gay and be a survior? [Re: survivedwithlife]
bodyguard8367 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/16/12
Posts: 1159
Loc: ""
""


Edited by bodyguard8367 (02/26/14 07:50 PM)
Edit Reason: SILENCED

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#407477 - 08/21/12 08:58 PM Re: can one be gay and be a survior? [Re: Magellan]
mato Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/21/12
Posts: 3
Loc: Nebraska
Thanks!

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