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#348556 - 12/20/10 01:14 AM Re: if your not.... [Re: kidneythis]
diamondheart Offline
Member

Registered: 02/25/01
Posts: 157
Loc: Michigan
Everyone needs to feel safe, yes... And there could be suvivors on here who are transgender. Seeing another survivor refer to them as a "Trannie" or a "Transvestite" could be a reason for them to feel unsafe, as they deem this word to be derogatory.

I understand that you have never known that it was offensive, that is where others come in to educate you. Which we are trying to do...

The Gay & Lesbian Alliance Against Defamation (GLAAD) clear states that the word "Transvestite" is derogatory and "Trannie" is defamatory! The proper word for "Transvestite" is Cross-Dressing but as you can see with the de>
_________________________
I am a gay guy just trying to find my way...

http://itismytimetoshine.wordpress.com

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#348595 - 12/20/10 12:05 PM Re: if your not.... [Re: diamondheart]
Ever-fixed Mark Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 01/02/10
Posts: 725
Loc: United States
I didn't live through the time where words like n*gg*r changed from being broadly used and accepted, to being acknowledged as offensive and hurtful, and ultimately being "asterisked out". Before that happened I'm sure there were many similar conversations about how words come to be understood over time.

I think we're living through the middle to latter stages of that process now with words like f*g and dyk* being recognized more and more broadly as demeaning and offensive to gays and lesbians and the decline in their use.

We all know that calling someone a "homo" is derogatory, even though it's just a contraction for the clinical term "homosexual". That's the case with "trannie" and "transvestite" also, however we're in the early to middle stages where the broad community doesn't fully realize how offensive it is to the group that it supposedly describes.

Let's all acknowledge that it's tough living in the middle of these transitions and having the meaning and usage of words change underneath us. Perhaps we can also agree that if a community finds a noun used to describe them offensive we can just avoid using that word.

Let's grant each other the benefit of the doubt.

-efm

_________________________

Everybody here's got a story to tell
Everybody's been through their own hell
There's nothing too special about getting hurt
Getting over it, that takes the work

- "Duck and Cover" by Glen Phillips

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#348622 - 12/20/10 06:33 PM Re: if your not.... [Re: Ever-fixed Mark]
kidneythis Offline


Registered: 11/08/09
Posts: 1558
Lets be clear I never called anyone who is transgendered a transvestite. The original post was removed but it had none of what it is being implied, in it.
I was grasping for Chas Bono's name and it elluded me so I continued on to make the larger point addressing the OP's question which is that women who are butch or transgendered to men (the other word I couldn't think of) would be welcome as long as they were open about this.
I didn't include the obvious point that this is so men who were abused by women or the more conservative or religious among us do not interact with them and feel duped or abused when they find out their interlocutor is or was a woman. That could be a serious trigger for them which I think was the OP's original point for bringing this up.

There was never at any time in the history of man the thought that the N word or the F word was not derogatory. Both of them are meant to be derogatory. So the comparison does not apply.

Transvestite has never been a derogatory word. The idea that people would take offense to it is beyond belief but I have sent out inquiries to a couple people and will do some more to get some responsive replies to the what and why of this issue. I do feel under attack and I feel insulted since I am a very inclusive and open person and I do not have to declare how many LGBT friends I have to prove my validity. And I do know some and they do use this word with no irony at all.

And the reverse is true for you all as well. Just becuase you think it is offensive doesn't make it offensive. I don't know any of you and have no reason to believe you since you provide no answers to my question of the why and how this word became offensive. I resent the superior looking down on my poor dumb ass attitude I am getting here.
I was accused by EFM of something that I never did because he inserted his own meaning into the words I used rather than just reading what was there, and since then my post was removed so I cannot defend myself from all this crap by pointing at it.

_________________________
As Mark Twain once quipped, history may not repeat itself, but it does rhyme.

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#348639 - 12/20/10 07:38 PM Re: if your not.... [Re: kidneythis]
Ever-fixed Mark Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 01/02/10
Posts: 725
Loc: United States
kidneythis,

For the record, I've made no accusations and have stated several times that I don't believe there was any intent to offend on your part. I always presumed your good intentions and gave you the benefit of the doubt.

I saw you grasping for the right word and when you used the word "tranny" I let you know that transgender people find it offensive - as they do - and pointed you to some resources to help you find the right word next time.

This thread has degenerated from an kindly-intended attempt to help someone find the right word, to a full on defense of using a word and a denial that it can be offensive. The outcome I was hoping for was a safe place where a transgender man who is a survivor could come to work on their recovery without finding an transphobic slur, albeit wholly unintended, in these forums.

The continuation of this thread is completely counterproductive to that outcome so my engagement in this thread ends now.

-efm

_________________________

Everybody here's got a story to tell
Everybody's been through their own hell
There's nothing too special about getting hurt
Getting over it, that takes the work

- "Duck and Cover" by Glen Phillips

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#348683 - 12/21/10 02:45 AM Re: if your not.... [Re: Ever-fixed Mark]
diamondheart Offline
Member

Registered: 02/25/01
Posts: 157
Loc: Michigan
When someone uses words like this in a public matter, it is my right to stand up and voice my concern... If that person feels attacked, I am sorry but I will not hide because of others. Especially when I have done it in the ut most care and given documentation to prove my case!

The first time I hear someone use these words, I will take into consideration that they might not be aware of how offensive it is but if after I try to open their eyes they still refuse it, that is when things change...

Honestly, if someone who is transgender didn't get upset over the two words used here, they certainly could when a person gets defensive and unwilling to accept it, even when faced with the evidence!

All I was doing out of concern and care.

The origional post was in regards to woman (born that way) pretending to be a man (born that way). It had nothing to do with being Transgender...

Further more, I would like to point out that if a ftm is on this site you might never find out that they are ftm, due to the fact that they now identify as the male gender and it is within their right to use the term man/male. It is not being dishonest if they don't share the gender they were born as, many who are transgender have transitioned or are in the process of transitioning!

The info below is not pointed at anyone in particular but a little more information, that some people might want to have.

Quote:
Gender Identity
One's internal, personal sense of being a man or a woman (or a boy or girl.) For transgender people, their birth-assigned sex and their own internal sense of gender identity do not match.

Gender Expression
External manifestation of one's gender identity, usually expressed through "masculine" "feminine" or gender variant behavior, clothing, haircut, voice or body characteristics. Typically, transgender people seek to make their gender expression match their gender identity, rather than their birth-assigned sex.

Transgender
An umbrella term for people whose gender identity and/or gender expression differs from the sex they were assigned at birth


Everyone has the opportunity to grow, even I do... I understand that some people have never had any experience with the transgender community. So how do you know, if no one ever tells you? If after someone is told a word is offensive and they still choose to use them, I can't stop them...

But this need to be a safe place for anyone who is transgender. Seeing these words could turn them away from this website. So why wouldn't anyone want to do anything in their power to stop that? This site is just as much for them, as it is for any of us!

I am going to be honest here. When I saw your first post kidneythis, I believed that you used these words because you didn't realize they were offensive and I didn't take offense to it... The subsequental posts I am not sure because you refuse to believe what we say and have become very defensive, even after giving you the GLAAD website. It has me feeling uneasy. Like you said, we don't know each other and I have to go on facts.

I am not transgender but they are apart of my community, so they are my family. Even if your intent is not harmful, the use of the words still can be such. We live in times where some people still believe it is okay to call us certain names and why would they believe otherwise when they see that we don't have equal rights. It is tough as it is, let alone to hear these words.

Believe what you want to, that is your choice but I ask for the feelings of anyone who is transgender on this site, to refrain from using these words on this site...

_________________________
I am a gay guy just trying to find my way...

http://itismytimetoshine.wordpress.com

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