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#349111 - 12/26/10 09:49 PM Re: "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" Repeal [Re: petercorbett]
Tinman Offline


Registered: 05/30/08
Posts: 359
Loc: Lake Forest, CA
Never thought this possible back when I served.

This is a great thing for this nation and for civil and human rights.

Now all of us who served in silence can finally stand proud. Of our service. And the nation that we served, who finally woke up!

_________________________
Tinman
"I finally have my heart!"

To the perps: Don't worry about me coming after you. But you damn well better watch out for God! "Vengeance is mine", saith the Lord

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#349123 - 12/27/10 06:33 AM Re: "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" Repeal [Re: Tinman]
catfish86 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/27/09
Posts: 821
Loc: Ohio
Somebody asked me about this and expected me, as a conservative Christian, to cry the blues. I also know it means a lot to a lot of people. My reaction is that not much will change really, other than nobody being officially kicked out for being gay. It is a good thing from the standpoint that it removes a security risk by lessening the blackmail potential of gay service people.

Most gay service people will go about their business without the fear that a slip up can end their career. A few will be obnoxious about it and will promptly be put out for whatever convenient reason can be concocted.

_________________________
God grant me
The Serenity to accept the things I cannot change,
The Courage to change the things I can,
And the Wisdom to know the difference.

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#349161 - 12/28/10 01:04 AM Re: "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" Repeal [Re: catfish86]
Moortje Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 03/20/09
Posts: 104
Loc: Oregon
Originally Posted By: catfish86
A few will be obnoxious about it and will promptly be put out for whatever convenient reason can be concocted.


The only "put out" people I've heard coming from gay quarters about this is in pointing out the important fact that although repealing DADT removes the discrimination-as-policy initiative, it's certainly no PROTECTION for gay service-members from being fired for being gay.

This will certainly reduce the number of discharges for that reason, but it will still occur, just as all gay people are frequently at risk of being fired for their orientation as we don't enjoy federal anti-discrimination protections. Any bigoted superior just has to concoct a convenient, phony reason to terminate a gay worker/service-member. I'm lucky to have never directly experienced workplace discrimination for being gay, but that's because I have had the good fortune of working for secular, liberal employers.

I know there is some debate in the gay community over whether such protections are effective, but that's a debate for us to have and to decide on our own. We still have a long way to go to full equality, unfortunately. But we'll get there, and the repeal of DADT is one big victory to celebrate on the way to making it happen! smile

~Matty


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#349179 - 12/28/10 10:23 AM Re: "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" Repeal [Re: catfish86]
prisonerID Offline
Greeter Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/17/08
Posts: 1247
Loc: Oklahoma
catfish,

I appreciate your supportive words here. It just goes to remind a person that labels do not cover all that a person is or what they may or may not believe in.


Daryl

_________________________
Broad statements often miss their true mark.

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#349181 - 12/28/10 10:37 AM Re: "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" Repeal [Re: Moortje]
prisonerID Offline
Greeter Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/17/08
Posts: 1247
Loc: Oklahoma
Matty,

There is more work to be done and this is a huge step in the public eye. This is not what those who put DADT into place ever expected. Whether they realize it or not they did more for thrusting the needs of the gay and lesbian communities "out" than anything else has. We should send them thank you cards - as well as some Depends when they mess on themselves. smile

I agree we should relish this victory for all who serve in the military and the ramifications that it will eventually have for all gays and lesbians in our country.

We are not asking for anything more than anyone else has - just the same.


Daryl

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l9P45Q8f7n0

_________________________
Broad statements often miss their true mark.

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#349183 - 12/28/10 12:03 PM Re: "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" Repeal [Re: prisonerID]
traillius Offline


Registered: 04/21/10
Posts: 260
Great.. Now if only Obama would focus on defending the nation and the constitution with as much fervor. But I am not holding my breath for that...


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#349671 - 01/03/11 04:34 PM Re: "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" Repeal [Re: traillius]
westsidej Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 12/04/09
Posts: 150
Loc: Minnesota

Howdy my brothers & happy new year!

As one of the few members who deal with this issue first hand, I thought I should provide my perspective to those who never served in the military.

We'll see how this policy turns out in the long term. Personally, I hope it's a tempest in a teapot but that's to be seen. Here are some issues that are going to need to be addressed that you may/may not have considered.

-Do military chaplains retain the right to preach the Bible, Torah or Qu'ran verses that define homosexuality as a sin towards God? They should but it might take congressional action to ensure religious liberty for those who defend our freedoms by taking care of our military men/women's spiritual needs.

-What about base housing? Should heterosexual couples w/ kids have priority over gay/lesbian domestic partners w/out? You could argue both sides on this one.

-Do gay couples who both serve receive spousal/domestic partner preference in terms of duty station assignments, even if they're in states that don't recognize gay marriage/civil unions? Again, this will have to be ejudicated.

-What about homosexuality for those service members stationed in the middle East? Good luck holding hands or PDA's in Iraq, Quatar, Kuwait, Afghanistan or Turkey. You'll end up like that British couple who barely made it out of I think Bahrain w/out enduring a long harsh prison sentence. Food for thought when off base outconus.

Again, I personally don't care if someone's gay or straight in the military. I care about their work ethic, professionalism, intelligence, ability to improvise, commitment to discipline and respect for those both above and below them (Keep your mind out of the gutter wink ) in the officer and enlisted ranks.

Just as I don't care what girl some sailor banged in port last night, I don't want to hear about some guy who hooked up with another guy in Naples or Mayport. Keep it to yourself, regardless of sexual preference and you'll do well.


BTW, I've never heard of anyone being kicked out for being gay during my long long time in the service, both active and reserve in several branches. We had several gay guys in my Navy unit back in the 80's/90's and we could care less about their personal life. They were fellow sailors. They did their thing, we did ours and no one bothered them in their choice of sexual partners.

Usually, not always, there's more than just being gay that gets someone the boot from the service. If you're annoying, bad for moral, combative or just plain negative, DADT makes for an easy way to remove you from the unit, company, division, workcenter or squadron.


So, those are some things to consider no matter what side of the argument you fall upon.

Again, happy new year and hope to be in more contact this year.

Jay

_________________________
My CSA story TRIGGERS!!!!

The hottest place in Hell is reserved for those who remain neutral in times of great moral conflict. Rev. Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.

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#349771 - 01/04/11 05:18 PM Re: "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" Repeal [Re: westsidej]
blaidd Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 12/01/00
Posts: 240
Loc: Australia
The way people invalidate and minimise the experience of gays and lesbians etc is breath taking. Kudos to those very brave people who advocated for change, amidst the homophobia, negativity and down right ignorance that is so often displayed in this world.


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#349813 - 01/05/11 11:21 AM Re: "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" Repeal [Re: blaidd]
westsidej Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 12/04/09
Posts: 150
Loc: Minnesota
It amazes me how people try to minimize the experiences of those who not just continue to endure but suffered centuries, if not millenia, of oppression and outright genocide to make their own cause seem more noble or equal in scale.

I wonder who's currently and historically been subjected to more discrimination in Australia, gays or Aborigines?

Would you rather be a tattoo faced Maori or a gay Kiwi in Christ Church?

Food for thought.

J


_________________________
My CSA story TRIGGERS!!!!

The hottest place in Hell is reserved for those who remain neutral in times of great moral conflict. Rev. Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.

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#349821 - 01/05/11 01:05 PM Re: "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" Repeal [Re: westsidej]
Ever-fixed Mark Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 01/02/10
Posts: 729
Loc: United States
There is no hierarchy of pain and injustice. There is no competition to see who has suffered more and who is more worthy of having surcease from their pain or ill treatment.

I think we can agreed that *all* who are in pain and are treated unjustly deserve ease and justice.

Westsidej, I can see why blaidd might see your comment that "I've never heard of anyone being kicked out for being gay..." as saying that there have been no consequences for lesbian and gay service people - essentially denying that they have suffered any ill-effects from DADT. I'm sure that wasn't your intention.

I may be missing it, but I don't see anyone trying to minimize the oppression and mistreatment suffered by other groups in this discussion. While I'm sure some people might do this, I don't understand how it is relevant to this discussion.

-efm

_________________________

Everybody here's got a story to tell
Everybody's been through their own hell
There's nothing too special about getting hurt
Getting over it, that takes the work

- "Duck and Cover" by Glen Phillips

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