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#348378 - 12/17/10 01:33 PM Re: if your not.... [Re: Avery46]
kidneythis Offline


Registered: 11/08/09
Posts: 1558
Let's just say its for male at birth abuse victims. Heck I can even see that butch women or trannies like Oh dam I can't remember his name, Sonny & Cher's kid would rather be in a mens group and I'm fine with that as long as there is no deception about these facts and they are here to deal with having been abused.
Allowing that in the world there are all sorts. Creepy women, as many of us on here know from being abused exist and will be on here just as creepy men will.
Just be aware of yourself and your surroundings. Remember that you cannot know who is at the recieving end of any of this it is about us learning to trust and learning to see that broken trust is not a life ending catastrophy now that we are adults. Yes we have emotional issues and react more intensely and deeply than a "normie" would yet we must learn to not react this way and to do that we have to take the chances that get us hurt to be able to see and learn how to handle things properly.

Yes its off putting when I find that someone I've dealt with for a long period of time is female but that is my fault for not asking before I started to let them in. If a female is on here and lying about it then well she falls into that category Obi described of someone who needs more help than most of us as that behavior is either creepy perverted or creepy damaged and maybe both but it has nothing to do with those of us who may have been duped.

_________________________
As Mark Twain once quipped, history may not repeat itself, but it does rhyme.

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#348382 - 12/17/10 03:39 PM Re: if your not.... [Re: kidneythis]
Ever-fixed Mark Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 01/02/10
Posts: 729
Loc: United States
It's incumbent on women to tell us that they are, in fact, women as part of the site's terms of use. There should never be any surprise in this on either side.

kidneythis, gender identity and expression is complex, and much less binary than people have been led to believe. Given your hypothetical acceptance of a trans-man in a men's group, I'm sure that your use of "trannie" was just a matter of not knowing the right word to use.

The best umbrella term is "transgender", and people transitioning from Female to Male are sometimes referred to as "transgender men" or "trans-men". Using "transvestite" or its contraction "trannie" is considered derogatory and if you are reaching for the right terms to use in future the GLAAD Media Reference Guide is a great resource that I use all the time.

-efm

_________________________

Everybody here's got a story to tell
Everybody's been through their own hell
There's nothing too special about getting hurt
Getting over it, that takes the work

- "Duck and Cover" by Glen Phillips

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#348383 - 12/17/10 03:46 PM Re: if your not.... [Re: Ever-fixed Mark]
kidneythis Offline


Registered: 11/08/09
Posts: 1558
Thanks for the info. Transvestite is a man who dresses as a woman trannie is either transvestite or transexual the usage was implied buy the posting.

I don't condone PC speach or the vilification of words. Usage should be the focus not the word itself. vilifying a word shuts down the mind to any and all concepts that require that word to be expressed. Its like saying one will never investigate cholera coming from waste because waste is unpure. Its a silly ignorant conceptualization of how one should deal with people who are bigotted. It assumes one can know what another is thnking in spite of what they say rather than thinking about what they say, realizing that they can only judge them by their words and actions not the imagined thoughts the word police attribute to them.

Thanks for thew info bro I didn't mean to be rude but my meaning was clear, and the inference that it was anything else is not my problem.

_________________________
As Mark Twain once quipped, history may not repeat itself, but it does rhyme.

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#348391 - 12/17/10 05:02 PM Re: if your not.... [Re: kidneythis]
Ever-fixed Mark Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 01/02/10
Posts: 729
Loc: United States
Hey kidneythis,

I know you weren't being rude, I was just trying to help you out with some language you might not have been familiar with. I've been working with the transgender community for the last 3 or 4 years so I've been learning a lot myself. smile This stuff is complicated, even sometimes for transgender people.

FYI, Chas Bono is a transgender man, not a cross-dresser. They are two very different things...

Quote:
Transvestite
DEROGATORY see Cross-Dressing

Cross-Dressing
To occasionally wear clothes traditionally associated with people of the other sex. Cross-dressers are usually comfortable with the sex they were assigned at birth and do not wish to change it. "Cross-dresser" should NOT be used to describe someone who has transitioned to live full-time as the other sex, or who intends to do so in the future. Cross-dressing is a form of gender expression and is not necessarily tied to erotic activity. Cross-dressing is not indicative of sexual orientation.

Transgender
An umbrella term for people whose gender identity and/or gender expression differs from the sex they were assigned at birth. The term may include but is not limited to: transsexuals, cross-dressers, and other gender-variant people. Transgender people may identify as female-to-male (FTM) or male-to-female (MTF). Use the de>
_________________________

Everybody here's got a story to tell
Everybody's been through their own hell
There's nothing too special about getting hurt
Getting over it, that takes the work

- "Duck and Cover" by Glen Phillips

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#348401 - 12/17/10 06:43 PM Re: if your not.... [Re: Ever-fixed Mark]
kidneythis Offline


Registered: 11/08/09
Posts: 1558
Thanks again but I speak English fine and I'm not going to allow the word police to dictate how I speak. I never said Chas Bono was a cross dresser, that is your imagination at work probably using the made up definitions of words you seem to have adopted.
Transvestite is not a derogatory term it is the word that describes a man who dress's as a woman or cross dress'. One says cross dresser when one doesn't have a large enough vocabulary to know the word transvestite. There is no name for a woman who wears men's clothing since all women of all stripes do it.

Any group to whom labels apply or words have developed to describe them or their behavior doesn't assume the right to rewrite the language to suit themselves and give themselves a false sense of power or control. Transvestite is not derogatory. Neither is trannie. The people you are workling with or the site you are getting your info from are radical outsiders who wish to remain radical outsiders and force the rest of society to meet their arbitrarily set standards, not normal people of differing sexualities who wish to be a part of society. This is proved by their actions as in this word policing problem, not their false protestations of wanting inclusion.

I will not allow insecure mean spirited people to tell me how to use a the most perfect language man has ever created. Especially since their usages are intended to undermine that language as they object to that specificity and perfection as much as they object to not having passive aggressive control over others.
The negativity or derogatory feelings they have about words are just that, their feelings, and for that reason have nothing to do with anything about the word. Feelings are something one feels and they can be moved by the use of words thus are ethereal. Words are something with specific and exact meanings which no amount of feeling can change.
The cobbled gibberish definition of transgender you gave should illustrate this fact. Transgender means exactly what the word says, trans=cross gender=sex at birth thus it means one has crossed from birth gender to the other gender. There is no other meaning possible for the word unless one is using it in prose and that "other" meaning would be by implication not an actual definition change for the word itself.
Just because a language evolves over time does not mean one can force that evolution.

Again I am not at fault if you are offended by a word I use. You may as well be offended by the chair you sit in, as there is no difference between being offended by the two things as they are things with a fixed purposes. Yes they can be used in other ways but the actual purpose they have in their preuse state is fixed not arbitrary.
That is why you listen to what is said and address that, instead of simply trying to stop the person from speaking by excluding a word they want to use and labeliung them for it. There are certainly ways to imply meaning into he word and at that time one should object if it is unseemly, not to the word but to the implied meaning.






Edited by kidneythis (12/17/10 06:44 PM)
_________________________
As Mark Twain once quipped, history may not repeat itself, but it does rhyme.

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#348416 - 12/18/10 12:24 AM Re: if your not.... [Re: kidneythis]
diamondheart Offline
Member

Registered: 02/25/01
Posts: 157
Loc: Michigan
To you, probably because you aren't transgendered and haven't gone through the struggles of it.

At one point, the "N" word was acceptable for some but we now know that is wrong...

Yes, people still use it but it has become socially unacceptable...

Same goes for other words that are used to put down a certain type of person... Like fag, faggot, trannie, etc...

It is about sensitivity... If I used a word that was offensive but I didn't realize that I would want someone to tell me...

For example, when in my early 20s I used the word cunt... I didn't know what it meant but had heard someone else say it. Someone told me what it meant and how it was offensive to women, so I stopped using it...

You mention its not the word itself, its how you use it? Is there a good way to use terms like faggot, the n word, etc?

_________________________
I am a gay guy just trying to find my way...

http://itismytimetoshine.wordpress.com

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#348425 - 12/18/10 03:37 AM Re: if your not.... [Re: diamondheart]
1islandboy Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 06/23/08
Posts: 862
Loc: washington
Well...

I think the truth of the matter is...that it is an impossible task to sniff out everybody who is a fraud here...(that is just the harsh reality)...I am positive the Mod's have plenty on their plate as it is.

Looking back I have posted a good portion of personal stuff...(several would probably agree some of it quite bizarre)...on the public side...(before I even knew a member side existed)...hopefully this might help a newcomer feel that he is not alone.

I am a very disorganized person..and the fact of the math is if I have a journal...I just end up loosing it...I am proud to say that I have never deleted a post...(M.S. is/has become my journal).

Ironically...somebody that responded to my very first post was later outed as a fraud.

Through recovery...I now aspire to live as honest,open and willing lifestyle as possible. I also am not as naive to think that everybody here is on the same page of thinking.

Firstly, I am here to help myself and resolve my issuse...(if I don't take care of myself, I can't help others...Secondly, I am here to help others....(which ironically leads right back to helping myself).

Interestingly enough a young female...(knew by her user name)...was trying to say hello...and believed we might have age in common...(because of my user name)...I immediately and instictively informed her of my age...(she pretty much figured out that she was young enough to be my daughter...).

I guess this is a good reminder to know that it exists...as I really haven't thought about this topic for a while...but at the end of the day...this personally changes nothing...as far as I am concerned.

I am here to help myself and others...(the rest is just static).


Broken Words (Finger Eleven)

island

_________________________
Rise above the storm and you will find the sunshine ~ M.F. Fernandez

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#348519 - 12/19/10 02:14 PM Re: if your not.... [Re: 1islandboy]
Ever-fixed Mark Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 01/02/10
Posts: 729
Loc: United States
I'm not offended by the word, kidneythis, I just know that my transgender friends and the community at large are very deeply offended by it. That's enough for me to care.

Just like I know that n*gg*r and cr*ck*r and f*g and ch*nk and g**k and c*nt are offensive to the people that these words target.

Everyone needs to feel safe here, and that's a reason for all of us to care.

-efm

_________________________

Everybody here's got a story to tell
Everybody's been through their own hell
There's nothing too special about getting hurt
Getting over it, that takes the work

- "Duck and Cover" by Glen Phillips

Top
#348520 - 12/19/10 02:23 PM Re: if your not.... [Re: 1islandboy]
WalkingSouth Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/30/05
Posts: 16265
To whom it may concern:

All terminology that in the view of the site management team and/or is defined by standardized convention to be derogatory, hateful, etc., of individuals or groups of individuals will be removed and further action taken if necessary to contain it's harmful impact. Individual interpretation or willingness to conform to accepted standards of speech will not come into play in this situation.

Please notify a moderator using the "notify" button on the specific posting in question if you believe a post to be in violation of the terms of service.

_________________________
“Life’s journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting ‘Holy ____…! What a ride!’” ~Hunter S. Thompson

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#348527 - 12/19/10 05:26 PM Re: if your not.... [Re: WalkingSouth]
kidneythis Offline


Registered: 11/08/09
Posts: 1558
Derek, this sentence you wrote is one; "You mention its not the word itself, its how you use it? Is there a good way to use terms like faggot, the n word, etc?"
Also there was never at any time the idea that the f or n word was anything but derogatory. Commonly used, yes. Not derogatory, NO. Transvestite has never been anything but the word that describes the cross dressing of a man.

"I'm not offended by the word, kidneythis, I just know that my transgender friends and the community at large are very deeply offended by it. That's enough for me to care.

Just like I know that n*gg*r and cr*ck*r and f*g and ch*nk and g**k and c*nt are offensive to the people that these words target.

Everyone needs to feel safe here, and that's a reason for all of us to care.

EFM, I just find this very hard to believe since you are the first person I have ever heard mention this. Can you tell me what is offensive about it? I cannot imagine it being possible to be offended by this word since the word has no and never has had any other meaning, not even slang.

I do care and am in no way lacking in compassion and I resent you implying otherwise.



Edited by kidneythis (12/19/10 06:00 PM)
_________________________
As Mark Twain once quipped, history may not repeat itself, but it does rhyme.

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