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#348006 - 12/13/10 01:48 PM Six Megathemes Emerge from Barna Group Research
Barkabus Offline
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This study was released by Barna Group today. It is very revealing about the state of Christianity in America.

Six Megathemes Emerge from Barna Group Research in 2010

1. The Christian Church is becoming less theologically literate.
2. Christians are becoming more ingrown and less outreach-oriented.
3. Growing numbers of people are less interested in spiritual principles and more desirous of learning pragmatic solutions for life.
4. Among Christians, interest in participating in community action is escalating.
5. The postmodern insistence on tolerance is winning over the Christian Church.
6. The influence of Christianity on culture and individual lives is largely invisible.

Here is the full text of the study:
www.barna.org/culture-articles/462-six-megathemes-emerge-from-2010

Mike

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#348014 - 12/13/10 03:36 PM Re: Six Megathemes Emerge from Barna Group Research [Re: Barkabus]
sono Offline
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Registered: 07/19/09
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Mike,

Number 5 is wholly unbelievable.

Number 6 is also a little hard to swallow given the fact an atheist could never win a nomination for President, let alone the election...not to mention the number of candidates who raised their hand at a famous primary debate when asked if they did not believe in evolution. I won't even address that party's vice presidential candidate...

Kevin

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#348021 - 12/13/10 05:06 PM Re: Six Megathemes Emerge from Barna Group Research [Re: sono]
Barkabus Offline
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Kevin,

Your arguement is with Barna Group, not me. I too, often question the integrity and motives of poll and research organizations. However, in this case I am in agreement with each of these 6 findings. But that is just my "gut" feel.

My long standing stance is: There is no one who is truly objective.

Mike

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#348022 - 12/13/10 05:24 PM Re: Six Megathemes Emerge from Barna Group Research [Re: Barkabus]
sono Offline
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Mike,

Of course my "opinion" not argument, although I do enjoy one wink!, is of course with the findings of that report you cited not you my good old friend, although we do disagree on a few things.

Hugs,

K

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#348024 - 12/13/10 05:44 PM Re: Six Megathemes Emerge from Barna Group Research [Re: sono]
Barkabus Offline
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Thanks Kevin. I've been a tad paranoid and defensive lately. My trust and safety have been put to the test on a level I haven't experineced in a long time.

As I read your response again, there was no reason for me to take it defensively.

You've always been a good friend.

Mike

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#348036 - 12/13/10 07:43 PM Re: Six Megathemes Emerge from Barna Group Research [Re: Barkabus]
Mountainous Buck Offline
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Registered: 12/15/09
Posts: 1626
Loc: Minnesota
Without seeing the actual questions, this is meaningless.

Here is an exerpt from #2 "more ingrown and less outreach-oriented":

"Examples of this tendency include the fact that less than one-third of born again Christians planned to invite anyone to join them at a church event during the Easter season; teenagers are less inclined to discuss Christianity with their friends than was true in the past; most of the people who become Christians these days do so in response to a personal crisis or the fear of death (particularly among older Americans); and most Americans are unimpressed with the contributions Christians and churches have made to society over the past few years."

Reading these "examples" and concluding what Barna concluded takes far too much of a stretch for me to care about this.

Just my two cents.

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#348037 - 12/13/10 07:48 PM Re: Six Megathemes Emerge from Barna Group Research [Re: Barkabus]
WalkingSouth Offline
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Registered: 08/30/05
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Re: #5... I tend to see it like Kevin does. I've certainly not seen any real evidence of Christianity becoming more tolerant of those who are not like themselves, none at all, really... Of course this bit of "wisdom" is purely anecdotal rather than scientific in nature wink

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#348039 - 12/13/10 08:05 PM Re: Six Megathemes Emerge from Barna Group Research [Re: WalkingSouth]
earlybird Offline
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Registered: 02/17/10
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Loc: WA USA
I’ve been pondering over #5.

I’m thinking that maybe by “more tolerant” the meaning is not that Christians (Especially the Born Again Christians) are more accepting they simply have come to realize they have to tolerate those of us that view the world differently.

To know I’m being tolerated is simply intolerable.

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#348043 - 12/13/10 08:47 PM Re: Six Megathemes Emerge from Barna Group Research [Re: earlybird]
Barkabus Offline
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Regarding #5

It would help if there was an agreement on the definition of "tolerance".

Does it mean full acceptance, embracing and agreement? Or could it mean, willing to agree to disagree? In order not to compromise my biblical faith I can only do the latter for social issues that run counter to my faith. Even so, I sometimes feel like I'm thought of as a hatemonger. Because I cannot accept embrace and agree but only agree to disagree doesn’t mean that I wish harm toward our culture that is progressively moving away from biblical values.

Mike


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#348044 - 12/13/10 09:26 PM Re: Six Megathemes Emerge from Barna Group Research [Re: Barkabus]
earlybird Offline
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Works for me. smile

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Balanced (My goal)

There is symmetry
In self-reflection
Life exemplified
Grace personified

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#348045 - 12/13/10 10:29 PM Re: Six Megathemes Emerge from Barna Group Research [Re: earlybird]
Still Offline
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I listened to a 1 hour sermon on how Christianity's yielding to tollerance will be one of its major downfalls. The worst thing you can be in today's society (USA) is labeled "intollerant."

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#348049 - 12/14/10 12:54 AM Re: Six Megathemes Emerge from Barna Group Research [Re: Still]
sono Offline
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Originally Posted By: Rob
The worst thing you can be in today's society (USA) is labeled "intollerant."


If only I would see evidence that the majority of people actually followed through with ridding themselves of intolerance...particularly organized religion.

Speaking of a definition of tolerance, I would see that as meaning for instance that you don't have to embrace and do that for yourself that which I do, which does not harm you, but you don't either A. try to stop me B. try to change me C. not try to legislate me (this is always the area in which the right always seems to totally forget that smaller government BS they're always touting...perfectly happy to invent a law to stop someone from doing something they don't like ala "Church Lady") D. keep your thoughts to yourself basically That's tolerance. Merely agreeing not to kill me, isn't really enough. Although a good many self proclaimed christians would just as soon kill a goodly number of humans, whom they deem subhuman. Not to mention the death penalty etc.

Sorry, I'm getting way off topic!

Back to Jesus...he seemed pretty tolerant, at least from the reports.

K

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#348050 - 12/14/10 01:08 AM Re: Six Megathemes Emerge from Barna Group Research [Re: sono]
Barkabus Offline
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There's always going to be hot button, politicized issues. Generally speaking, demonizing opponents as intolerant, hate filled, shallow minded, etc. is merely a political tactic to manipulate people who maybe on the fence to one side because of the fear having those labels applied to them. Both sides play this game. I hate it because in extreme instances when it get out of hand and one side gains an over abundance of power, those demonized can find themselves in the same place as the Jews in Nazi Germany. And I don’t put it past humanity to repeat such horrific extremism given the right circumstance.

OK, perhaps I’ve gone way off topic.

Mike


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#348091 - 12/14/10 01:03 PM Re: Six Megathemes Emerge from Barna Group Research [Re: Barkabus]
Still Offline
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Registered: 02/16/07
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Basically, the church (as a whole) needs to be tollerant of worldly things such as trends, accepted normative changes and popular culture. If you played MTV's filth just 15 years ago, there would be audible outrage. Now an organized objection to the sewer that is MTV won't even be met with a reply. They'll just look at you like you have three heads.

Its been boiling down to one thing: The spiritual, with our social boundries must break with said boundaries and kiss the arse of the non-spiritual public in order to not be outcasts in our daily lives. Yet another polarzation of America.

I've been a social outcast since I was 7yo. Got nothing to lose by getting in there face.

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#348095 - 12/14/10 02:15 PM Re: Six Megathemes Emerge from Barna Group Research [Re: Still]
Ever-fixed Mark Offline
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Robbie,

Quote:
Its been boiling down to one thing: The spiritual, with our social boundries must break with said boundaries and kiss the arse of the non-spiritual public in order to not be outcasts in our daily lives. Yet another polarzation of America.

I'm not sure that we are even living in the same country from your de>
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Everybody's been through their own hell
There's nothing too special about getting hurt
Getting over it, that takes the work

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#348097 - 12/14/10 02:31 PM Re: Six Megathemes Emerge from Barna Group Research [Re: Still]
Ever-fixed Mark Offline
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Originally Posted By: Robbie Brown
I listened to a 1 hour sermon on how Christianity's yielding to tollerance will be one of its major downfalls. The worst thing you can be in today's society (USA) is labeled "intollerant."

I'd argue that being told that you are a "fag" who is "intrinsically morally disordered" and that there is no shortage of people who will tell you to "Get AIDs and die", is manifestly worse than being called "intolerant".

-efm

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Everybody here's got a story to tell
Everybody's been through their own hell
There's nothing too special about getting hurt
Getting over it, that takes the work

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#348114 - 12/14/10 06:27 PM Re: Six Megathemes Emerge from Barna Group Research [Re: Ever-fixed Mark]
sono Offline
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Registered: 07/19/09
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Amen, Mark! (one of the few times I'll say that)

K

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#348131 - 12/14/10 08:52 PM Re: Six Megathemes Emerge from Barna Group Research [Re: Barkabus]
Still Offline
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Registered: 02/16/07
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Where are you getting that I'm slamming gay? Dude...take a chill-pill and get over yourselves for a minute. I defy you to find ONE post of mine that EVER EVER EVER slams gays. This thread is not about you. The Pew poll numbers are for loose affiliation. You are also assigning non-affiliation to gays. I know a zillion gay Christians.

Societal Measures may be:

- rate of drug use
- age continuums of alcohol abuse
- murder rates
- rape rates
- violent crime
- proliferation of crime in schools
- teen preganancy
- broken families (Rob raises hand)
- child abuse rates
- weapon crime
- welfare rates
- Profanity on TV
- Profanity on children's TV shows (Rob raises hand)
- Sexual content on children's TV
- Public funds providing abortion
- Age of self-permissable abortion

I find it incredibly offensive and low of you to accuse me of slamming YOU when I NEVER have. I demand a retraction or for you to find a "gay slam" in ANY of my posts.

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#348137 - 12/14/10 09:11 PM Re: Six Megathemes Emerge from Barna Group Research [Re: sono]
Still Offline
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Registered: 02/16/07
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Quote:
D. keep your thoughts to yourself basically That's tolerance. Merely agreeing not to kill me, isn't really enough. Although a good many self proclaimed christians would just as soon kill a goodly number of humans, whom they deem subhuman. Not to mention the death penalty etc.


WOW! Back that up please given that you accuse me of it.

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#348138 - 12/14/10 09:13 PM Re: Six Megathemes Emerge from Barna Group Research [Re: Ever-fixed Mark]
Still Offline
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Originally Posted By: Ever-fixed Mark

I'd argue that being told that you are a "fag" who is "intrinsically morally disordered" and that there is no shortage of people who will tell you to "Get AIDs and die", is manifestly worse than being called "intolerant".

-efm


Back this up with a quote of mine since you assign it to me. And again...get over yourself.

Now...HOW TF is this crap helpful to CSA healing? I'm lost here dude.

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#348170 - 12/15/10 02:01 AM Re: Six Megathemes Emerge from Barna Group Research [Re: Still]
Ever-fixed Mark Offline
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Registered: 01/02/10
Posts: 729
Loc: United States
Robbie,

I am not accusing you of anything more than invoking hyperbole unwisely. You stated that the worst thing one could be labelled was intolerant. My goal was to show that there is a great deal worse to be labelled, not that you were the one doing the labeling.

Many gay survivors are used to hearing intolerance used in a semi-coded reference to them. Was there another context you had in mind?

-efm

_________________________

Everybody here's got a story to tell
Everybody's been through their own hell
There's nothing too special about getting hurt
Getting over it, that takes the work

- "Duck and Cover" by Glen Phillips

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#348186 - 12/15/10 07:20 AM Re: Six Megathemes Emerge from Barna Group Research [Re: Ever-fixed Mark]
Still Offline
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Registered: 02/16/07
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OK. Seriously, in my world, having exposure to schools and courts, if I'm considered intollerant, I find myself in a non-voluntary psych evaluation.

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#348201 - 12/15/10 10:37 AM Re: Six Megathemes Emerge from Barna Group Research [Re: Still]
Ever-fixed Mark Offline
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Registered: 01/02/10
Posts: 729
Loc: United States
Why would that be so? It's certainly is not so for the vast majority of people. Is this at your workplace or elsewhere? Even at the very best workplaces with the best policies, women, gay, transgender, disabled, and 50+ workers can get the bum's rush out the door without triggering anti-harassment and anti-discrimination policies.

I wonder if you don't harbor some strong feelings that others can accuse and pass judgement on you in this way, and if that isn't the source of your strong reaction.

Being in that situation would be very stressful.

-efm

_________________________

Everybody here's got a story to tell
Everybody's been through their own hell
There's nothing too special about getting hurt
Getting over it, that takes the work

- "Duck and Cover" by Glen Phillips

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#348208 - 12/15/10 11:54 AM Re: Six Megathemes Emerge from Barna Group Research [Re: Ever-fixed Mark]
Still Offline
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Registered: 02/16/07
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My last employer was in the twin cities: They even had TGBH NCAA RSVP club that met once a week. I see states with people whom vote in gay marriage. I see an IRS that threatens to suspend tax-exempt status of churches that won't marry same-sex couples.

I see a country that only accepts tollerance so long as its your definition of tollerance ("your" being general).

In the end however, I see a country that sifts things down to a widely accepted and embraced state of acceptance where the word "tollerance" has no role. i.e. racial equality as it exists today.

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#348223 - 12/15/10 03:44 PM Re: Six Megathemes Emerge from Barna Group Research [Re: Still]
Ever-fixed Mark Offline
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Registered: 01/02/10
Posts: 729
Loc: United States
Originally Posted By: Robbie Brown
I see states with people whom vote in gay marriage.

That is indeed remarkable, as no US state has seen the people "vote in" equal marriage rights, we've only seen the people vote to overturn or veto equal marriage where it has been passed by the legislature or required by the courts. Opponents of equal marriage want the people to vote while the polling is in their favor, because voting on equal marriage means a majority voting on the rights of a minority where the minority is expected to lose. Can you clarify what you meant to say here please?

Originally Posted By: Robbie Brown
I see an IRS that threatens to suspend tax-exempt status of churches that won't marry same-sex couples.

No, I really don't think you do. Please produce a citation that supports this claim.

Originally Posted By: Robbie Brown
I see a country that only accepts tollerance so long as its your definition of tollerance ("your" being general).

Examples with citations please, this is too vague to rebut.

Originally Posted By: Robbie Brown
In the end however, I see a country that sifts things down to a widely accepted and embraced state of acceptance where the word "tollerance" has no role. i.e. racial equality as it exists today.

While it would be nice to be accepted, for those who are prejudiced against others the best we can hope for is to tolerate each other in our civil society. Your level of confidence that acceptance is the path rather than tolerance doesn't match my own experience. Do we mean that same thing? What is the distinction between acceptance and tolerance to you?

By the way, we don't have racial equality today in any measure, in the same way we don't yet have gender equality. We've made progress, yes, but prejudice, in the form of misanthropy, racism, and homophobia is still all too common and pervasive.

-efm

_________________________

Everybody here's got a story to tell
Everybody's been through their own hell
There's nothing too special about getting hurt
Getting over it, that takes the work

- "Duck and Cover" by Glen Phillips

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#348607 - 12/20/10 03:23 PM Re: Six Megathemes Emerge from Barna Group Research [Re: Ever-fixed Mark]
Castle Offline


Registered: 10/03/09
Posts: 734
Loc: NJ
MY .02

The IRS should take away all tax exempt status to everybody...It costs money for everything. smile

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