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#347207 - 12/05/10 11:33 PM Re: Is there Salvation for those who are gay? [Re: chuckb]
diamondheart Offline
Member

Registered: 02/25/01
Posts: 157
Loc: Michigan
We each have our own journeys and pathways to recovery and healing...

All I can do is speak what is best for me... My post even though it was put as a question wasn't really for anyone else to tell me if there is salvation for gays. For too long I have believed everything that everyone in my life has said about me or my kind. So by starting to question these things, it allows me to come out from under the shadows to my real self...

This is how I heal by asking myself these questions and discovering my own truths, not others truths... and realizing that I don't have to base who I am on how others view me...

In the end, I can't control anyone but myself and the same goes with others views, beliefs and opinions. I will stand up for my beliefs, especially if it affects me but eventually for me it is best if I just walk away because it really doesn't affect me...

_________________________
I am a gay guy just trying to find my way...

http://itismytimetoshine.wordpress.com

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#347214 - 12/06/10 12:34 AM Re: Is there Salvation for those who are gay? [Re: diamondheart]
Moortje Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 03/20/09
Posts: 104
Loc: Oregon
Derek,

Beautifully said, and what a strong, elegant and even graceful way to rise above the negativity, shown even by some. You seem to be asking just the right questions, and to just the right person: yourself. Because only you can truly give yourself the truthful answers to the questions you have about "you" and where your comfort level is. Anyone else trying to force Christianist doctrine posing as "answers" down your throat clearly has a negative agenda and not your actual interests at heart. You seem to have your head on right about this issue, and I wish you all the best healing in your journey of spiritual self discovery and acceptance.

Heal well, ~Matty


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#347558 - 12/08/10 07:19 PM Re: Is there Salvation for those who are gay? [Re: Avery46]
weharry1959 Offline


Registered: 11/13/10
Posts: 66
Loc: N/W Pennsylvania, USA
Derek - I don't have any answers! but I can share with you that What get's you into Heaven, isn't something that you do or don't do, it is one simple thing, to have a personal relationship with Jesus. I've learned he'll meet me where I am at, I don't have to be something or do something first.
I've had serious discussions with my wife, children and my daughter's fiancée who is studying to be a Pastor (Full Gospel, Pentecostal bible Believing Faith) What I have found out is that I don't have the answers and won't placate you with one line of verse to justify what I believe other than to say to you. That I believe that there is only one impardonable sin that that all sin, justifies us not going to heaven. But, it is that personal relationship with Christ that carries me through. I know that I feel like one mistake away of Jesus leaving me today, but He doesn't and he won't. Derek, He loves you, But also "He LIKES you." an thought that rocked my world and help me to overcome,what I believe, are Satan's ill placed suggestions, that I am nothing and worthless of God's love. If I spend my time, with God, I'll not be spending time, subjectively making judgments that are better left to God. For not having much to say, I've said probably too much. I will keep you in my prayers and send Christ-like, loving thoughts your direction.

_________________________
Forgiving does not always mean everything goes back to the way it was. There are still natural consequences for what was done.

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#347578 - 12/09/10 12:15 AM Re: Is there Salvation for those who are gay? [Re: weharry1959]
diamondheart Offline
Member

Registered: 02/25/01
Posts: 157
Loc: Michigan
I honor your experience and what works for you... I appreciate your feedback...

I think the issue I have with religion and those who practice it, is this idea they know what or won't get me into heaven... Based on what you said since I don't have a relationship with Jesus, I won't go to heaven...

I personally don't believe that deep inside. I can't because I will live my life in fear like I have for so many years... and that is not healthy for me...

I think it is wonderful that you have found this personal connection with god through jesus but that is not my journey...

In the last week since my post here, I have come to terms with some things. This fear of my spirituality has been lifted. I now can come to terms what spirituality means for me... and demystify some things my family and others tried to instill in me.

Personally I don't think spirituality is something that you are able to completely figure out or even answer... But you do have to figure out what is best for you. It just is... I have to come to learn that faith to me is hope... Not in something exterior but in myself and mankind...

I believe Christ was a great man, who was perscueted for his beliefs much like many of us have done to us today. I believe he was a messenger but not the only one... There are other truly good people in this world like Mother Theresa, Gahndi, etc. As I start to heal more I believe that life is about being the best kind of person you can be. I choose to not worship Jesus or anyone else for many different reasons. Mainly because that is not my core belief system.

If I was to align myself with a religion it would be closer to the Buddhism faith.

All this time I have been searching for or fearing something that I was told was on the exterior when all along I have held it within me... and that is love...

Granted I haven't got a grasp on everything when it comes to my own spirituality but I have lived enough to know what it isn't for me... and that being the christian way of life (god, jesus, etc). I am sure you and others of certain faiths may not understand that. I notice even when I say what does and doesn't work for me, some in the christian faith still feel the need to tell me the right way...

If god is this amazing creature that has created all this wonderfulness in six days? Wouldn't you think he/she/it would create a way to get the message across that would reach all parts of the world?

There are many ways to the same destination on this earth and I believe the same goes for spirituality.

_________________________
I am a gay guy just trying to find my way...

http://itismytimetoshine.wordpress.com

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#347594 - 12/09/10 07:18 AM Re: Is there Salvation for those who are gay? [Re: diamondheart]
blaidd Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 12/01/00
Posts: 240
Loc: Australia
I'm so glad to see you having worked through this issue and come to a position of strength and grace, no matter which path you choose.

To break free from the negative messages from our family of origin can be a very liberating thing indeed, regardless of their religious beliefs. I wish you well.


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#347629 - 12/09/10 01:17 PM Re: Is there Salvation for those who are gay? [Re: blaidd]
diamondheart Offline
Member

Registered: 02/25/01
Posts: 157
Loc: Michigan
thanks blaidd... huggs

_________________________
I am a gay guy just trying to find my way...

http://itismytimetoshine.wordpress.com

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#347729 - 12/10/10 10:01 AM Re: Is there Salvation for those who are gay? [Re: diamondheart]
weharry1959 Offline


Registered: 11/13/10
Posts: 66
Loc: N/W Pennsylvania, USA
Derek - I honor you thoughts and beliefs. I know it is a journey that will take you a long way. I've learned that we all have seasons that are sometimes long and hard. With regard to Jesus. I'd like to share with you a 1 hr video that I believe have answered many questions about this Jesus. It is from an Athiest Investigative Reporter. I would encourage you to be open minded. It is:
http://www.videosurf.com/video/the-case-for-christ-59777059

With all my love and prayers I wish you much peace and healing.

_________________________
Forgiving does not always mean everything goes back to the way it was. There are still natural consequences for what was done.

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#347752 - 12/10/10 12:31 PM Re: Is there Salvation for those who are gay? [Re: weharry1959]
somanyquestions Offline


Registered: 11/08/10
Posts: 9
Loc: Los Angeles, CA
Like most things in life, everything with moderation. I have and continue to travel the world learning about new cultures, looking into other's religions outside of our Western culture.

Religion can keep one on track and help in their journey. However, at the same time, those too far into any religion can create hate and angst amongst those who are not in that exact religion.

What I see in religions, and I am from an Irish-Catholic background, is that WE are not here to judge ANYONE. If any of these religions are true, then we will have ONE finally power to answer to come that day. And, on my side I will have a good amount of questions to be asking of him/her before I step through the pearly gates if they exist.

Religion makes you feel complete as far as a group who has faith as you do, it can tear lands apart too as we see too often. It can also devastate those who don't 'fit' in to that particular faith. Jewish, Catholic, Protastant, Islamic, Buddist, Sikh and too many other religious to list here. By accepting one you have to say all the others are not accurate. Again, WE are not the true judge of anyone while here if we are indeed religious ourselves. To say the Sikh religion is wrong or that Christians are bad because of x, y, z. It can go on and on in this world no matter what faith you are or are not.

So, my point to you is that there is NO right or wrong while we are here. And, those who you fear are judging and casting stones your way about being gay are the ones who will have to answer to such hateful actions to others while 'here in his likeness.'

Be the best person you can be. Be kind to people, animals and life without being a doormat. Be proud and on that judgment day when we all may or may not find the answer you can stand up for the life you lived.

Your salvation is now getting your life together, dealing with the past trauma we all share here and moving forward to lead a productive and happy existance.


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#347779 - 12/10/10 04:38 PM Re: Is there Salvation for those who are gay? [Re: weharry1959]
diamondheart Offline
Member

Registered: 02/25/01
Posts: 157
Loc: Michigan
You don't need to convince me of what you believe in, those are your truths and I respect you for that...

Please respect mine. I don't need to be saved from my afterlife... I am not sure why people feel the need to consistently push at someone, especially when they tell you time and time again it is not for them, your views and beliefs on something, even if they do it with love...

I believe in a higher power. I believe though that this said higher power is something found within us all.

It appears you think you need to convince me of the ways and truths of Jesus. It is not for me to say what was or wasn't true of Jesus, especially with his relationship to God...

Somethings a person has to find out on their own. A hundred people can tell someone something but until they are ready to hear it, they won't accept it... I am not saying that I will ever come to accept christianity as my religion and my faith but I am just saying that each person has their own journey, beliefs, views and truths.

I will be the first to admit, I don't have it all figured out. I have come to realize that I still have my spirituality, which until recently I thought I had lost... I have had years of others clogging my inner spiritual connections and it is going to take time to overcome this. Even though I don't have many things figured out, I know what works for me and doesn't... Worshiping this figure from the past, as good as he was, is not for me...

Even though I choose to not worship Jesus or practice christianity. I belive in essence of Jesus and many of his teachings. That being to be the best person possible and to treat others with the ut most love and care. To stick true to what you believe in.

I have an issue with worshiping a man, even if he was the son of god. I believe if anything you should worship (follow)the idea of humanity, love and compassion... For two long I have felt like I didn't not only desreve this from others but felt I could only give that to others and not myself.

For too many years I have allowed others views and beliefs, come between me and that love. Others in my past, would not allow me to come to my own conclusions or understandings of what spirituality meant to me... They tried to convince me of their ways. They tried to tell me their way was the only way. It is my way, or the hellway... This all or nothing thinking is harmful for me, it is what caused me to throw out my spirituality. I couldn't believe in their way of thinking and I couldn't fathom the idea of burning in hell for who I was, so the only alternative was to not believe in anything... It wasn't until recently that I realized that how could I not believe in their own way of thinking and not another? It was believe in what they thought or not at all. It was still believing parts of what they taught me.

Meaning, that they wouldn't allow for another way. Either way meant no afterlife. So I internalized it as that I was damaged or bad. They had this black and white way of God... That there was only one door into heaven. I have come to learn that if I didn't believe in their views on God, I didn't have to believe in this idea that there was only one avenue into the afterlife... It allowed me to have this alternative way of thinking when it comes to my spirituality. That I was still sacrificing my own love because of others beliefs.

I will no longer let anyone take away my love and the ones I love...

I am still healing not just from the spiritual and emotional abuse, but also the sexual abuse...

Please respect my boundaries. They are important to me. I am trying to overcome some things and I don't want to project or be defensive but if I keep getting poked I will defend myself. This was my post, in the gay section which is a safe place for me to get support. Granted I know that I can't keep people from saying things to me, but I will let my voice be heard... It is like putting air into a balloon, you can only do that so much before it explodes.


With sexual abuse being able to say NO is a very powerful thing for a survivor. It also applies to spiritual abuse. So I am saying NO.... and will continue to say NO, until I don't have to anymore...


_________________________
I am a gay guy just trying to find my way...

http://itismytimetoshine.wordpress.com

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#347803 - 12/10/10 10:41 PM Re: Is there Salvation for those who are gay? [Re: diamondheart]
somanyquestions Offline


Registered: 11/08/10
Posts: 9
Loc: Los Angeles, CA
Hey, I'm hoping that your last response is not to mine. If it is, you misread it. while I greatly refrained on my thoughts on religion as they are not along the lines of those others pointing you towards salvation sites. However, and if you read my post, respecting other and their beliefs, it was so YOU would understand you are your own person, make your own decisions and are NOT to be judged by others. No one has the right to judge you. That is unless of course you are engaging in activity such as what we experienced as kids. Then, I will judge you to no end.

My point as an educated, well traveled man, who just happens to have this horrible f'd up childhood secret that he is finally dealing with, was that you are your own salvation. No ancient book from any land or culture should cast you into shame over who you are and who you want to be with as an adult.

If that was in response to my post, then re read it. It took me a LONG time and much travel and worldwide education to not have religious guilt in my life.

Again, you are your own person. IF there is a final power to answer to, that is who you answer to. NOT the torch bearing, "morality" pushing people who are casting judgment on you here.

I actually have a good born again Christian friend who knows to tread lightly with me there. Even she jokes that the closer to the front of the church one is, the bigger the sinner they secretly are.

Therefore I again hope you did not read my reply as pushing ANY faith on you.


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