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#346785 - 12/01/10 06:23 PM Bait and Switch
pixystick Offline
New Here

Registered: 04/11/08
Posts: 19
Loc: east coast
Any wives out here that feel like they got a "lemon"' when they married their husband? I do! My hubby is a CSA survivor. I know now that he would not have been able to articulate this fact to me when we were dating. But, a part of me feels like I should have been given a disclaimer by someone! Why couldnt he have said, "Honey, I am a survivor of CSA. I have tons of emotional baggage! Not to mention intimacy issues. I am not the least bit interested in dealing w/ this through counseling because it is way too painful and this marriage is not worth all that. So you will have to take me as is. I wont be able to provide closeness, hand-holding and tender moments unless sex is involved. You will have to get by without it. And you dont have my permission to have an extramarital affair! I will have difficulty relating to our children so you are on your own." Still wanna marry me?


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#346788 - 12/01/10 06:35 PM Re: Bait and Switch [Re: pixystick]
Avery46 Offline


Registered: 09/23/10
Posts: 1243
Loc: USA
Pixystick,

I know you typed the word "wives" but I wanted to say bravo to you for writing this.

This is clear and to the point. It expresses your thoughts - I am sure my ex-wife had - and it expresses your dismay.

I will be able to tell my next partner about the full affects of the abuse clearly and fully after discovering what happened and how it affected me.

Donnie

_________________________
aka DJsport

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#346790 - 12/01/10 06:53 PM Re: Bait and Switch [Re: Avery46]
pixystick Offline
New Here

Registered: 04/11/08
Posts: 19
Loc: east coast
Thanks Donnie! Better late than never.


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#346796 - 12/01/10 07:21 PM Re: Bait and Switch [Re: pixystick]
Avery46 Offline


Registered: 09/23/10
Posts: 1243
Loc: USA
True. I feel for you.

_________________________
aka DJsport

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#346798 - 12/01/10 07:26 PM Re: Bait and Switch [Re: pixystick]
nltsaved Offline


Registered: 08/26/08
Posts: 838
Loc: Kc,Mo
i find it hard to believe the warning signs were not there before hand . we choose to ignore things even though we see the warning signs before hand . there are a lot of things i saw in my wife before i married her , her neediness, insecurity,and lack of trust and i ignored it hoping it would get better or that when we got married those things would change.

i can not sit here and say i wish i would have known that she would not have had these insecurities,lack of trust and her extreme neediness when i knew they were there the whole time i just chose to ignore the warning signs.

but the great thing about marriage is that you can work on it and together it just breaks my heart to see people talk about marriage as if it is just something people do and can just break up like some kind of relationship gone wrong.

marriage is something so much more than that it is forever it is a commitment that if most people actually knew what they were sighning up for would not get married at all.

did you not stand there and say for better or worst so what is the problem this is not on him as it is so much on you. you said the vow you stood there and said for better or worst now that things are bad you wanna get all mad . well i got news for you


marraige is more than just saying i am done this is it
how bout fighting for your marriage how about saying it is worth the pain and the suffering to become one and to become better for it . how about saying he is worth the things You said
for better or worst.

sorry for being so harsh but man

what is marriage if you will not honor the vows?
so many people have no idea what so ever what marriage really means as if it is some story book . some never never land of fantasy that everything is gonna be just great and better or worst will not come about or richer or poorer sickness in health . all those things will come and continue to come if you are not up for all that than you should have not said you were .

_________________________
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n-uYCAfpxrY
TRIGGER WARNING
Video of me telling my story
you are not alone never were
WRITTEN FORM
http://www.malesurvivor.org/board/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=339159#Post339159
Why i hate Religion but love Jesus
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1IAhDGYlpqY

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#346803 - 12/01/10 07:46 PM Re: Bait and Switch [Re: nltsaved]
Avery46 Offline


Registered: 09/23/10
Posts: 1243
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: nltsaved
what is marriage if you will not honor the vows?
so many people have no idea what so ever what marriage really means as if it is some story book . some never never land of fantasy that everything is gonna be just great and better or worst will not come about or richer or poorer sickness in health


nt,

I agree with you. When I told my ex-wife I was sexually abused - well she was NOT ex at the time - she said get the f out. She had experienced my withdrawal.

Lots of pain on both sides.

_________________________
aka DJsport

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#346804 - 12/01/10 07:48 PM Re: Bait and Switch [Re: nltsaved]
pixystick Offline
New Here

Registered: 04/11/08
Posts: 19
Loc: east coast
Ouchh! I'm def in it for the long haul. I just get frustrated sometimes. I try to focus on the things I do have w/ my husband as oppossed to the things I don't have. Still, it is hard. I only found out about the abuse when I found out about his numerous affairs. He then offerred the "abuse" as his reason. I guess I get it but you better believe I was a bitter pill to swallow. I thought to myself that it was ironic I can't get intimacy (only sex) but he's got the wherewithall to romance other women? No way is it fair. And yes there were signs that something was "rotten in Denmark" but I would have never guessed in a million years our current situation.


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#346806 - 12/01/10 07:55 PM Re: Bait and Switch [Re: pixystick]
Avery46 Offline


Registered: 09/23/10
Posts: 1243
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: pixystick
..I thought to myself that it was ironic I can't get intimacy (only sex) but he's got the wherewithall to romance other women? No way is it fair.


I understand. I appreciate your honesty and truth. I know this hurts.

I wish I could offer more comfort.

Donnie

_________________________
aka DJsport

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#346811 - 12/01/10 09:31 PM Re: Bait and Switch [Re: Avery46]
pixystick Offline
New Here

Registered: 04/11/08
Posts: 19
Loc: east coast
Thanks Av and Donnie. Just needing to vent. Bums me out at times. I kno my husband is dealing w/ a lot. Guess I would feel better if he was more committed to counseling. Why wouldn't a person do everything they possibly could to get better and thus be a better spouse,father, brother etc? Makes me feel like our marriage isn't worth fighting for!


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#346817 - 12/01/10 10:41 PM Re: Bait and Switch [Re: pixystick]
nltsaved Offline


Registered: 08/26/08
Posts: 838
Loc: Kc,Mo
"I only found out about the abuse when I found out about his numerous affairs."


this is probably the one thing that i do not no if i could deal with. anything else besides unfaithfulness i can deal with ,i admire your willingness to work through that like i said i do not think i could deal with that one. but i guess that would be considered the worst out of for better or worst . i do not think it could get any worst than that.

sorry if i came off to strong with out knowing the whole thing , this is something i have been working on and as always there is always a humbling experience to show me these things .

for real though people these days do not take marriage seriously enough. but it sounds like you are

_________________________
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n-uYCAfpxrY
TRIGGER WARNING
Video of me telling my story
you are not alone never were
WRITTEN FORM
http://www.malesurvivor.org/board/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=339159#Post339159
Why i hate Religion but love Jesus
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1IAhDGYlpqY

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#346819 - 12/02/10 12:20 AM Re: Bait and Switch [Re: nltsaved]
Avery46 Offline


Registered: 09/23/10
Posts: 1243
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: nltsaved
"I only found out about the abuse when I found out about his numerous affairs."


this is probably the one thing that i do not no if i could deal with.


I am not sure I could deal with this either.

Your a strong person.

_________________________
aka DJsport

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#346827 - 12/02/10 02:37 AM Re: Bait and Switch [Re: Avery46]
Barkabus Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/09/08
Posts: 809
For better or for worse.

Pixystick, I admire your resolve to make your marriage work. Were you suspicious of your husband’s disclosure about CSA after you learned he was cheating on you? Such a disclosure could be an attempt to manipulate sympathy from you by turning attention away from his infidelity onto his unresolved past. I guess time will tell if your husband’s disclosure was authentic and by it he is ready to acknowledge his betrayal of you, seek your forgiveness and get the help he needs to work through the myriad long term effects of his CSA.

I rarely post in F&F because I have never been married or ever been in a serious relationship...but...I do have a strong conviction for the permanence and sacredness of marriage. In this era of throw away families and disposable marriages, it is truly a breath of fresh air to hear someone like you state your commitment to your husband despite the profound hurt he has caused you. Your frustration and anger is very much justified and I think it is good for you to express it and work through it. Hopefully, you both can go to counseling together as well as your husband seeing a T one on one for his the CSA.

Mike

_________________________
My Story

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#346847 - 12/02/10 09:59 AM Re: Bait and Switch [Re: pixystick]
Sobernow Offline


Registered: 05/17/10
Posts: 256
Loc: Oklahoma
So let me see ---- you are PERFECT - and feel like you got a "Lemon"? ok now i see..............................


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#346848 - 12/02/10 10:00 AM Re: Bait and Switch [Re: nltsaved]
Sobernow Offline


Registered: 05/17/10
Posts: 256
Loc: Oklahoma
bravo nlt

ditto me on those remarks.


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#346851 - 12/02/10 10:14 AM Re: Bait and Switch [Re: Sobernow]
pixystick Offline
New Here

Registered: 04/11/08
Posts: 19
Loc: east coast
Sober, I am no way perfect and I do lots of things wrong all the time. I just wish he had told me in the beginning. Or I would have settled for him telling me at any point in our marriage other than the way he presented it me. He said the CSA was the reason for his "friendships" with other women. I know its tough and I hate that it happened to him. When I got married I expected to have a partner w/ whom I could share closeness, intimacy, laugh, talk, hold, kiss, raise a family, grow old etc. Call me stupid! He did those things in the beginning but he stopped about 2 years into the marriage. I guess it was too difficult for him to pretend. He doesnt "need" closeness and intimacy. I do! So for that part, I'm sad. Im just trying to find a way to muddle through.


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#346854 - 12/02/10 10:36 AM Re: Bait and Switch [Re: pixystick]
InsideTheWall Offline


Registered: 01/10/09
Posts: 280
You have a right to be mad, Pixy.


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#346857 - 12/02/10 10:53 AM Re: Bait and Switch [Re: InsideTheWall]
Disappointed Offline


Registered: 08/11/09
Posts: 540
Loc: U.S.A.
lll



Edited by Disappointed (12/19/10 09:02 PM)
_________________________
Female.

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#346867 - 12/02/10 11:24 AM Re: Bait and Switch [Re: Disappointed]
Avery46 Offline


Registered: 09/23/10
Posts: 1243
Loc: USA
Pixy, Disappointed and others,

We all deserve to be close/intimate with others. We all deserve to "feel" loved and complete. We all deserve to expect that from others.

It is really difficult as adults and be a survivor to get close and WANT to get close.

As a survivor, my challenge is too "break" through the barriers/feelings-anger, deep sadness, rage, etc and do it in a healthy way so I can join the rest of society and be productive and loving.

There are so many boundary issues to understand that were messed up during the CSA or SA. We all start adult life with hope for a bright future. I hoped as I turned 18, that nothing in my past would "affect" my future. I was very wrong. I got married just once. For the survivor and non-survivor, NEITHER one wants to be a "lemon" or called one.

Bottom line is - shxx happens.

I think life today in our fast paced world is ready to say - I am out of here - if things do NOT go right.

My grandparents did NOT have sex after the "kids" - 10 of them - we born.

Peace to both sides of this issue. We are all entitled to our feelings.

Donnie

_________________________
aka DJsport

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#346868 - 12/02/10 11:37 AM Re: Bait and Switch [Re: pixystick]
LandOfShadow Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 12/11/07
Posts: 684
Loc: Minneapolis, Minnesota USA
Originally Posted By: pixystick
Why wouldn't a person do everything they possibly could to get better and thus be a better spouse,father, brother etc?


"Big boys don't cry. Suck it up. Man up. Whiner." (Repeat 100000 times)

_________________________
Et par le pouvoir d’un mot Je recommence ma vie, Je suis né pour te connaître, Pour te nommer
Liberté

And by the power of a single word I can begin my life again, I was born to know you, to name you
Freedom

Paul Eluard

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#346870 - 12/02/10 11:54 AM Re: Bait and Switch [Re: Avery46]
LandOfShadow Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 12/11/07
Posts: 684
Loc: Minneapolis, Minnesota USA
It's just... who do you blame here? The 25% of kids sexually abused as children, or the society that refuses to admit it, and steadfastly teaches everyone it doesn't happen, or if that doesn't work, it was long ago so forget about it and why don't you shut up.

It's kind of that "inconvenient truth" thing again...

Pixy, you were, are, totally victimized too. That's ugly. But not by your husband. He's just being a "good boy", like I expect he was. I just can't blame the kid any more.

_________________________
Et par le pouvoir d’un mot Je recommence ma vie, Je suis né pour te connaître, Pour te nommer
Liberté

And by the power of a single word I can begin my life again, I was born to know you, to name you
Freedom

Paul Eluard

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#347238 - 12/06/10 07:44 AM Re: Bait and Switch [Re: pixystick]
Avery46 Offline


Registered: 09/23/10
Posts: 1243
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: pixystick
they got a "lemon"' when they married their husband?


My BIGGEST FEAR is being a "lemon". I never asked to be a lemon or be used as someone dirty rag.

It is any wonder after being used as a dirty rag and then having my ex-wife believe I was just a lemon.





Edited by Avery46 (12/06/10 01:15 PM)
_________________________
aka DJsport

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#347298 - 12/06/10 01:09 PM Re: Bait and Switch [Re: Avery46]
wayne9 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/14/08
Posts: 161
Loc: alabama
At what point in a relationship should I tell of the CSA? I don't think its something to tell until it is clear there might be something more to it than just a date. But if you wait until true feelings have started from the heart than you risk hurting yourself and the other person.....

Tim


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#347313 - 12/06/10 02:46 PM Re: Bait and Switch [Re: wayne9]
LandOfShadow Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 12/11/07
Posts: 684
Loc: Minneapolis, Minnesota USA
Here's what I believe:

We (I'm a survivor talking...) all struggle with the stigma of being a child sexual abuse "survivor".... Throw him away, not a real man, man enough... etc...

I'm am so blessed to have a girlfriend who sees what I'm up against, the path I am on, the remarkable progress I have made and the path I have charted out forward, ... and recognizes the strength and courage and specialness of a man like that. She's helping me believe that, too, in time, as much as she.

Believe in yourself, your courage and strength to confront this, even when no one around you is believing in you. You are not alone, and we together speak our truth. Together, we will prevail.

Commit to your healing. It's tragic, ... what we deserved, what they promised us, the lies we got instead. But this is now our path in life. Move forward. Make progress. Admit your faults. No more denial and avoidance. Allow others to help you. Trust they are around you and you will find them.

Pixystick: I hope I haven't discouraged you, or "shut you down". Please post more. Your side of things,... really needs recognition. I'm just telling you how I see it. I'm not "right". I hope your husband goes immediately to a therapist who knows about male childhood sexual abuse. Some are, frankly, just clueless in my experience. Even harmful. Hope that wasn't his experience. Here is good. A support group is good, if they know enough to respond helpfully. Seems pretty difficult to find though.

An aside. There's something hugely "triggery" about your name here for me. Hope I'm not overreacting because of it.

Take care.

_________________________
Et par le pouvoir d’un mot Je recommence ma vie, Je suis né pour te connaître, Pour te nommer
Liberté

And by the power of a single word I can begin my life again, I was born to know you, to name you
Freedom

Paul Eluard

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#347322 - 12/06/10 05:37 PM Re: Bait and Switch [Re: nltsaved]
Mountainous Buck Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 12/15/09
Posts: 1626
Loc: Minnesota
Here's my experience-months after the infidelity came crashing out of my closet-wemweremseeing a T who said when we got married both of us had baggage sitting behind us at the altar that wasnt part of the deal-the baggage from our pasts.

So I got busy working thru my baggage and that work continues-the csa didnt emerge until six years later so we had a foundation of fidelity to work this out.
I can't imagine the mixing of infidelity and csa issues at the same time-

The key for me is willingness to be a better man than the path I started out on in this life-and to pursue my own destination. Having trust and integrity and facing all this past and acting out sexually takes guts-but the only way out is through in-not around it.

_________________________
We have to take responsibility for what we're not responsible for.

“It doesn't matter where you've come from,
It matters where you go" Frank Turner

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#347339 - 12/06/10 09:12 PM Re: Bait and Switch [Re: LandOfShadow]
pixystick Offline
New Here

Registered: 04/11/08
Posts: 19
Loc: east coast
Hey Land of Shadow. I'm still reading and trying to learn. MY husband did go to therapy for a bit but earlier this year. I hate to view him as disabled but there are a ton of "things" he can't do or tolerate. Unfortunately, I need those "things". I always did. He also didn't not have a very good childhood aside from the CSA. I know its not fault but its still Damn Hard!


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#347342 - 12/06/10 10:56 PM Re: Bait and Switch [Re: pixystick]
jorgea73 Offline


Registered: 12/03/10
Posts: 30
Loc: Southern California
Pixy - I am new to this board and I am also a survivor. I was molested at the age of 4. I'm now 37 and still dealing with it. I know it is hard on you. Like Land of Shadow. I also have an understanding wife who has been through a lot in the past 14 years of our life together. I can only say to please be patient with your husband. I know it's trying and sometimes extremely and painfully frustrating, but your husband has been through a lot. I don't know the details of your husband's abuse or life, but any CSA is extremely traumatizing. I wish you two luck and patience. All the best.



Edited by jorgea73 (12/07/10 12:22 PM)

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#347382 - 12/07/10 12:20 PM Re: Bait and Switch [Re: pixystick]
LandOfShadow Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 12/11/07
Posts: 684
Loc: Minneapolis, Minnesota USA
Disabled sounds like he can't correct it. He Can. Where is he now? I guess I want to say to him.... "Buddy, I so know you didn't want this job. But dealing with this is YOUR job. Not your wife's. But not alone. And the fear and shame you feel, won't kill you."

For me, there's such a temptation to hide stuff from my gf. But it works opposite. The more open I am (and man does that feel bad and vulnerable), the easier it is for her to deal with things. It's a known thing we handle together, not a unknown she's shut out from with no understanding, hope or way forward.

Like I said before (in part), http://www.malesurvivor.org/board/ubbthr...6864#Post346864, there are ways to try to make it work.

Others suggested getting lots of hugs from friends and family until he can do more. Sounds workable.



_________________________
Et par le pouvoir d’un mot Je recommence ma vie, Je suis né pour te connaître, Pour te nommer
Liberté

And by the power of a single word I can begin my life again, I was born to know you, to name you
Freedom

Paul Eluard

Top
#347389 - 12/07/10 01:24 PM Re: Bait and Switch [Re: LandOfShadow]
pixystick Offline
New Here

Registered: 04/11/08
Posts: 19
Loc: east coast
L.O.S.-Thanks for the encouragement. I think I can make it if things don't get any worse. Hopefully, he will return to counseling. But its like he's decided that going through the recovery and therapy is just too hard and he's not interested in dredging up those feelings. I'm just taking it one day at a time.


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#347402 - 12/07/10 03:43 PM When should you tell a girl you're dating? [Re: wayne9]
Disappointed Offline


Registered: 08/11/09
Posts: 540
Loc: U.S.A.
Hi Tim,

Everyone is different, but I'll relate my experience. My dear friend contacted me when he saw me on a website. We emailed, talked on the phone several times, I'd say he first mentioned his CSA after about 4 weeks of conversation. He told me over the phone, was very casual about it, didn't make a big deal out of it. He had two different abusers. He told me about the last one, not the first one. The last one was easier on him, and that was the one he mentioned to me.

The way he talked about it, lightly and matter of factly, I really felt it was not a big deal. I still feel that way. Much later, about 4 months later, in person, he told me about his first abuser, who was very bad to him. And this he didn't tell me much about at all. He mentioned it, said there was "penetration," and then then said he didn't remember much of it. Which turns out wasn't true, but that's okay. He put me on notice.

I think he handled it great, for me.

Disappointed.

_________________________
Female.

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#347404 - 12/07/10 03:56 PM Re: When should you tell a girl you're dating? [Re: Disappointed]
Sad in the Midwe Offline


Registered: 12/23/09
Posts: 19
This is so hard. I am angry that I wasn't told...as I had a blunt conversation w/my husband before we married. I've come to believe that many survivors of CSA have had to lie for many years...they are good at it..He admits he didn't tell me because I might not have stayed w/him. He's right. I wouldn't sign up for this.
It covers every aspect of our life. His depression, his anger, his inability to get a job or see any part of life other than his victimhood. He's been in therapy for 18 months, but I haven't seen much change. I'm tired of living this way.
Thanks for letting me vent. It's too shameful for me to share w/my f/f...his acting out, his addiction to porn...it's a quiet hell I can't share w/anyone but a T..and, that's expensive.
Sad


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#347413 - 12/07/10 06:06 PM Re: When should you tell a girl you're dating? [Re: Sad in the Midwe]
Mountainous Buck Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 12/15/09
Posts: 1626
Loc: Minnesota
Sad in the Midwest- that's tough-I didn't know about my csa but I did hide my sexual past since it had been a few years since I last acted out with another male-

Once my addiction came out, I was willing to do whatever to recover - that was eight 1/2 years ago and our marriage survived.

Intention is everything- can we be honest in our most significant relationships or do we intend to deceive and be unfaithful? Can we trust the other person enough to telll them truthfully-or do we hide parts of ourselves to get others to stay with us?

_________________________
We have to take responsibility for what we're not responsible for.

“It doesn't matter where you've come from,
It matters where you go" Frank Turner

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#347417 - 12/07/10 07:20 PM Re: When should you tell a girl you're dating? [Re: Mountainous Buck]
Disappointed Offline


Registered: 08/11/09
Posts: 540
Loc: U.S.A.
Dear Mountainous Buck,

When dating, it's never a good idea to tell anyone the negative about you at the beginning. It's kind of like selling a car. First you market the car as shiny and beautiful, just to get customers on the lot to look....

But then, when you're further along in the relationship, and they have interest, and have gotten to know you a good bit, and that interest is mutual, then is the time to gradually begin letting them in about the real you. Gradual is key, because otherwise it's overwhelming, even for those not victims of CSA. Most of us have problems!!

I fully understand the fear that a person wouldn't stay. But if you wait long enough, so that they know you pretty well, then they will want to make things work, and not give up. Also, I could be really wrong about this, but I don't think most people (people not abused, I mean), have the same sensitivities as survivors. We aren't grappling with guilt, with dissociation, with all the other things that you are. MEANING that we are not as likely to think it as significant a factor as you are, we are not likely to think the survivor is guilty, et cetera et cetera.

Honest to God, my dear friend, he's always worried he will get triggered and his employees and staff will see him and think he's silly then, but I've seen him when he's triggered. He's only very mildly silly, and then, so briefly, that it really seems like he's joking. Even if he is still in his funny mood for hours, he seems perfectly normal to me. Seriously.

I know I'm all over the place with this, Sorry.
D.

P.S. But even if you are afraid they will not stay, they have a right to know. Holding out important information when someone is considering a lifetime commitment, is not right. That said, I can understand and totally sympathize with a CSA survivor being so fond of someone, that they don't want that person to leave so they don't tell. I understand that. But I do think that is an exaggerated fear, because again, CSA survivors are much more anxious about all the issues surrounding it, than others. We are not wrapped up about it. We think it wasn't your fault.



Edited by Disappointed (12/07/10 07:27 PM)
Edit Reason: Added post script.
_________________________
Female.

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#347419 - 12/07/10 07:33 PM Re: When should you tell a girl you're dating? [Re: Sad in the Midwe]
pixystick Offline
New Here

Registered: 04/11/08
Posts: 19
Loc: east coast
Wow Sad-Sorry to hear. I can definately understand what your talking about. Is is a sort of private hell because its not the kind of thing you can share w/ a girlfriend. My husband did eventually tell his mom about it but he can't bear to have any other family member know. His refusal to go back to therapy frustrates me to no end! I don't know what he expects me to do w/ the list of "things" he can't do. Its not like he's gonna say its ok for me to find a surrogate husband in the interim. But I have my own therapist and thankfully I have this site.


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#347422 - 12/07/10 07:43 PM Re: When should you tell a girl you're dating? [Re: pixystick]
Disappointed Offline


Registered: 08/11/09
Posts: 540
Loc: U.S.A.
...
_________________________
Female.

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#347472 - 12/08/10 11:50 AM Re: When should you tell a girl you're dating? [Re: Disappointed]
Disappointed Offline


Registered: 08/11/09
Posts: 540
Loc: U.S.A.
I received a PM from a great guy, who thought I was insensitive about why a survivor would not disclose. Due to the great amount of reading I have done here, I have some understanding of that.

That said, I still stand by my belief that disclosure is important. However, human nature being what it is, I also understand that survivors will want to spare themselves the trauma and pain of it.

However, we see what happens when marriages break up. It is not a pretty picture, especially when young children are involved. Maybe the fiancees should have noticed a problem. Maybe they should have said "no" to a proposal if they didn't date a man long enough to really know him. Everyone is human, and everyone has their reasons for their choices. But sometimes, there are innocent bystanders, and that is what I find most worrying.
Disappointed
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#347473 - 12/08/10 12:01 PM Re: When should you tell a girl you're dating? [Re: Disappointed]
Castle Offline


Registered: 10/03/09
Posts: 727
Loc: NJ
Disappointed:

Disclosure is very important...However...Its not up to you to disclose somebodys abuse without their permission.

Regardless if they dont know your "friend"..its not your truth to put out there.

As a lawyer, you should understand confidentiality better than most...do you talk to your friends about your cases?

Some of your foolish posts really offend me...and I have the right on MALESURVIVOR...to say what I wish in friends and family...and why do I read it...cause people put foolishness out there that other sO read..and they need actual good information.



Edited by Castle (12/08/10 03:57 PM)
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#347474 - 12/08/10 12:09 PM Re: When should you tell a girl you're dating? [Re: Castle]
Castle Offline


Registered: 10/03/09
Posts: 727
Loc: NJ
BTW...my awesome wife asked me if it was ok to tell a couple of her friends.....the 2 times she asked I said no problem..they are the right kind of people to tell...She needs an outlet too....but it was my choice...If I said no..she would respect my wishs.

Like I said shes Awesome, her suppoort in this is amazing.

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#347494 - 12/08/10 03:33 PM Re: When should you tell a girl you're dating? [Re: Castle]
pixystick Offline
New Here

Registered: 04/11/08
Posts: 19
Loc: east coast
Geez Castle
I think a spouse or a potential spouse should let their significant other know. Just like you would disclose prior marriages, children, credit history, drug use etc. My hubby would "die" if he knew any of my friends knew. But a person needs to vent and its a terrible burden to have to keep "secret."
Im just saying........


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#347497 - 12/08/10 03:57 PM Re: When should you tell a girl you're dating? [Re: pixystick]
Castle Offline


Registered: 10/03/09
Posts: 727
Loc: NJ
hmmm...we can have a difference of opinions pixy..and my remarkes were not to you but to Disappointed...I will rectify that by addressing her specifically in my post.

I wonder if you all would feel the same on the flip side...

Lets say I went to a site geared twords women who were abused and I said what your saying...I wonder how that would come across.

the ability to disclose abuse is very difficult even for people in relationships.

And Im with you..thats why I let my wife tell some friends...so she could have somebody to talk too.

maybe one day when your husband works through his recovery more he will let you tell some friends...but its his truth.

Its unfortunate I couldn't tell her for 17 years, or anybody for 27 years...our relationship is at its best right now...but I dont think you fully understand what male survivors go through in holding in this information and what we think people will think of us.

We dont hold this in for no reason...society has not been our friend.

When society changes maybe more men can tell their SO earlier on in their relationships. Things are starting to change..but slowly.

I hope it works out for you.

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#347501 - 12/08/10 04:03 PM Re: When should you tell a girl you're dating? [Re: pixystick]
Disappointed Offline


Registered: 08/11/09
Posts: 540
Loc: U.S.A.
...


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#347503 - 12/08/10 04:11 PM Re: When should you tell a girl you're dating? [Re: Disappointed]
Obi Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 12/28/09
Posts: 1291
Loc: kansas
disappointed,

so, you want him to be totally comfortable around your family but you don't care if he's totally comfortable or not around your friend(s)?

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#347504 - 12/08/10 04:11 PM Re: When should you tell a girl you're dating? [Re: pixystick]
Avery46 Offline


Registered: 09/23/10
Posts: 1243
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: pixystick
My hubby would "die" if he knew any of my friends knew. But a person needs to vent and its a terrible burden to have to keep "secret."
Im just saying........


It is good to hear this. It is good to know you would tell others - your husbands business (HIS secret - the one that the perp(s) in his life told to not tell).

NO wonder this assaulting issue gets so big. The assault/abuse keeps going on and on like the energizer bunny.

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#347508 - 12/08/10 04:19 PM Re: When should you tell a girl you're dating? [Re: Disappointed]
Castle Offline


Registered: 10/03/09
Posts: 727
Loc: NJ
SAD.

You have very little understanding of anything revolving around being a male survivor..or how to support one.

Why are you here?


And let me take it a step further...I think you are specifically HURTING and ABUSING your friend for your gain.

This survivor has no ability to stand up to you, and you could care less about his feelings on certai matters that many of us hold very sacred...Just because hes compelled to play your "games", it seems from this line...

"I have also told him I told one of my best buds. He emailed and said, "You wouldn't!!, or "you didn't!", or something. I don't remember exactly."

tells me you are a sick woman.

49 yo female, divorce lawyer, who likes control at others expense, and feminizing men, one of whom was abused as a child, and your ok with helping him relive some abusive moments in his life.

Your a real catch I wonder why he hasn't commited to you.

I REALLY DISLIKE YOU AND EVERYTHING ABOUT YOU AND IM NOT AFRAID TO TELL YOU SO.

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#347512 - 12/08/10 04:31 PM Re: When should you tell a girl you're dating? [Re: Avery46]
Disappointed Offline


Registered: 08/11/09
Posts: 540
Loc: U.S.A.
...
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#347514 - 12/08/10 04:32 PM Re: When should you tell a girl you're dating? [Re: Disappointed]
Avery46 Offline


Registered: 09/23/10
Posts: 1243
Loc: USA
I am out on this post....sorry

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#347515 - 12/08/10 04:36 PM Re: When should you tell a girl you're dating? [Re: Disappointed]
Disappointed Offline


Registered: 08/11/09
Posts: 540
Loc: U.S.A.
...
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#347516 - 12/08/10 04:37 PM Re: When should you tell a girl you're dating? [Re: Disappointed]
Obi Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 12/28/09
Posts: 1291
Loc: kansas
*shakes head*....

sorry to disappoint you disappointed, but you're missing the mark again....

what your "bf" told you about a very traumatic part of his life was meant between him and you... no one else, unless HE says it's ok. it's NOT your story to tell.

and apparently you're "best bud" hasn't told you everything because he conveniently didn't tell you about his secretary being abused UNTIL you told him about your bf being abused. which, btw, your best bud should NOT have told you about his secretary being abused either unless the secretary gave him permission to...

wow! sounds like you really like to deal in gossiping to me...

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#347518 - 12/08/10 04:42 PM Re: When should you tell a girl you're dating? [Re: Obi]
Disappointed Offline


Registered: 08/11/09
Posts: 540
Loc: U.S.A.
...
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#347522 - 12/08/10 04:47 PM Re: When should you tell a girl you're dating? [Re: Disappointed]
Avery46 Offline


Registered: 09/23/10
Posts: 1243
Loc: USA
REALLY - even if he is just a whatever...it is your right to tell his story....

You have got be kidding, right

Friends...dont tell hurtful stories....



Edited by Avery46 (12/08/10 04:48 PM)
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#347524 - 12/08/10 04:50 PM Re: When should you tell a girl you're dating? [Re: Disappointed]
Obi Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 12/28/09
Posts: 1291
Loc: kansas
my mistake on calling him your bf... regardless though, friend, bf, brother, dad, son, uncle, whatever it is not YOUR story to tell others about without his permission...

sorry, but that right there is reason why so many of us men who have been abused have a DIFFICULT time trusting people. not only was our trust betrayed when we got abused but to have someone who we think cares about us betrays our trust by telling others about our private lives without permission is equally damaging and borderline abusive....

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#347526 - 12/08/10 05:00 PM Re: When should you tell a girl you're dating? [Re: Avery46]
Disappointed Offline


Registered: 08/11/09
Posts: 540
Loc: U.S.A.
...
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#347527 - 12/08/10 05:08 PM Re: When should you tell a girl you're dating? [Re: Disappointed]
Avery46 Offline


Registered: 09/23/10
Posts: 1243
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: Disappointed
The written word conveys so little.


The written word conveys a LOT. I have written here and my brothers hear me and I hear them. I have healed a LOT from my words here and the written words convey a LOT.

I have learned a LOT here. I will NOT be telling my story for awhile. She will be a special person that I trust before telling anything.

Disappointed,

I wish you well too.



Edited by Avery46 (12/08/10 05:10 PM)
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#348582 - 12/20/10 09:47 AM Re: When should you tell a girl you're dating? [Re: Avery46]
sugarbaby Offline


Registered: 08/17/08
Posts: 329
OP - I originally felt like my marriage was all a lie. It was very painful and I felt he should have given me some warning ahead of time.
Now though - I understand more. I can empathize more and it is less important that he didn't tell me then....and more important that he was able to come out with it at all.


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#350743 - 01/14/11 02:41 PM Re: When should you tell a girl you're dating? [Re: Castle]
iwanttocry Offline


Registered: 01/13/11
Posts: 23
I will say that not all wives and supporters feel the same way Disappointed feels. I'm a little late to this post but I would like to say that being chosen to be the one who a CSA discloses their experience to is similar to being a therapist. You may not be an official therapist but for whatever reason, they trusted you enough in that moment to disclose something so painful. I don't take that role lightly. I think it's immature to feel that just because the personal who disclosed the subject acted lightly about it, that you should too. If my friend disclosed that she was raped, I would never feel that it was ok to share that. Even if she disclosed it in a joke, with cartoons, or standing upside down. Non-survivors have no idea what courge it takes to disclose this kind of thing. I know my husband uses humor so that he doesn't end up throwing because it's so painful.
Disappointed, regardless of what your views are, this is not the place to take a stand. If we offend people by mistake, just apologize for it.


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#350750 - 01/14/11 03:43 PM Re: When should you tell a girl you're dating? [Re: iwanttocry]
hopeandtry Offline


Registered: 07/28/10
Posts: 476
I have made the mistake of disclosing information that was not mine to disclose. Then I realized what a horrible mistake I'd made and I confessed and apologized for it. I most certainly do NOT pretend it was okay. It's not okay to tell something that I didn't have permission to tell, and that is something I need to work on in the future. If you did something wrong, just admit it. In this case, I agree with others that it is not okay to disclose this type of information without permission. I'd trade an awful lot to have back those words I shared, even though I was forgiven.


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#350755 - 01/14/11 04:09 PM Re: Bait and Switch [Re: nltsaved]
Shawushka Offline


Registered: 01/05/11
Posts: 128
Loc: VA
I haven't read all the six pages, but to answer OP, indeed I feel like I got a 'lemon' when we married.
For me this is still all new and it's tough to realise that my partner is a survivor and I wish I had known that before. On the other hand I tend to think, that maybe it's better I found it out now cause had I known before we probably wouldn't be married today.
Most likely I wouldn't be able to quickly caugh up a long list of why I love my partner and why I think it's worthwhile fighting for this relationship.
I'm married to an awesome person and this 'lemon' feeling is something I see as a passing stage in the process of understanding an accepting what has happened to my partner when he was a kid.


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#350756 - 01/14/11 04:14 PM Re: Bait and Switch [Re: Shawushka]
hopeandtry Offline


Registered: 07/28/10
Posts: 476
Please don't use "name calling" on this site. I feel like calling someone a "lemon" is just that. We don't need to label. Expressing feelings is one thing, but labeling is a very bad practice and one that I am trying to not do anymore myself. I caused a lot of damage through name-calling in the past. My feelings might have been justified, but the name-calling was not. These men aren't "lemons." That makes us non-survivors sound like we are so great. Yeah, right.


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#350757 - 01/14/11 04:38 PM Re: Bait and Switch [Re: hopeandtry]
Shawushka Offline


Registered: 01/05/11
Posts: 128
Loc: VA
Totally agree with you, while reading and wrting I was actually thinking of a better term for that lemon thingie.
I guess it's like feeling betrayed, as if you didn't get to read the fine prints of a contract. But again, these kind of feelings seem to me a natural part of a process.
At first I was very angry even and had to take some time for myself, but the more I inform myself about csa and the impact it has, the more my anger and frustration vanish.
And to be honest, I don't even want my partner to get into therapy to save our relationship. I want him to get therapy so he can be a happy, healthy human being, enjoy life, enjoy sexuality, enjoy intimacy,etc. etc.

For me this is also difficult to deal with and I deeply regret that I talked to one friend who reacted very negative, but thank God I didn't share any details. I stopped talking the second she responded negative.
I have an auntie, who absolutely rocks and I have talked to her and her reaction was awesome. That was enough for me, to just have one person I can talk to. She's older, has seen much of life and doesn't judge people.
Other than that I have decided to not to talk to anyone about my partner's csa. Heck, he starts sweating and trembling when he talks to me about it, that's enough of a sign that I shouldn't go and advertise it amongst my/our friends.


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#350777 - 01/14/11 07:27 PM Re: Bait and Switch [Re: Shawushka]
hopeandtry Offline


Registered: 07/28/10
Posts: 476
Yes I agree it's very hard to deal with...I don't mean just how it affects us and the relationship, but knowing the suffering the survivors go through. It is hard to know how to learn to deal with it, though this support group has been the most help to me. I have an individual T, which helps, but I don't think I've found the right one for me yet. I know I should have never disclosed, but I am at least aware I did wrong and "repented" and am trying to be better in the future. None of us are perfect. That being said, I cannot act like what I did was okay, and it disturbs me that some people think it's okay to go spreading that stuff around to a lot of people. Mistakes can be forgiven no matter what they are (and that goes for things survivors may do to hurt us, too), but if you pretend the mistake is not a mistake, then that is different. That's just...selfish and not loving. All I can do now that I have apologized is to strive to be better about it in the future.


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#351113 - 01/18/11 06:53 AM Re: Bait and Switch [Re: nltsaved]
mazda Offline


Registered: 01/16/11
Posts: 2
New data suggest a offline too.....

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