My response was not at you at all... It says in my post as to whom I was responding to and it wasn't to him entirely... In the post title it says RE:

This is all recovery for me... to be able to say the things I am saying today, is crutial for me to overcome so many of these things...

My voice is important and this place allows me to have my voice...

I've read some of this before and I believe it twists things that are clearly stated. Be that as it may, it is enough to say that gays can be saved if the Christian faith is the truth. That after all is his question. I hope he finds the peace he is looking for.

I wrote this post right after getting horribly triggered at my aunts funeral. When I wrote this the fears were very raw, so where the images of what I went through...

I have since been able to look past all of that and see the truth as it is for me... My post was me questioning things and putting it out there. I really wasn't asking anyone to tell me if there was salvation for gays, it was more retorical and to myself.

I don't need saving from anyone, religion or god... my child needed saving but that is too late for that when it comes to others, so now it must be me to save him... and that is what I am doing now, processing what I have been through and what I continue to go through...

it is nice to have back some of my spirituality.

If you believe in God as the Creator, then He created you as you are. The percentage of the population which is gay (as evidenced through genetic markers) is consistent worldwide, in all groups and countries, more evidence that it is not a choice, but that is who you are. Re. going to Hell if you do not live up to the standards of certain so-called Christian religions, how can these religions combine the principles of the fear based, judgmental Old Testament with the loving, accepting words and actions of Jesus. The purpose of His presence on Earth was to show us a new way. If you are Christian, you should be following what Christ taught by word and example. I have never understood how the Old and New Testaments could be in the same Bible. It is impossible to follow both. Sincerely, Ron. P.S. I do not follow any religious practice, but respect those who do so with love and tolerance. I try to follow the examples of Jesus and the Buddha, because they make sense and help me to live well.

No problem Derek! I am honored and happy to meet a guy who is finding his own answers.

I'm reminded of a Rumi quote...

"There are many rivers and one Ocean."

I believe that whatever teachings you follow, they are simply rivers. Hopefully, they lead you... But the Truth is in the Ocean.

I wish with all my heart that all survivors, especially gay guys, can find their special connection with the Great Mystery. My faith in God has helped me through.

Personally, I believe equally in Jesus, Buddha, Mohammed, White Buffalo Calf Woman, and others. I am lucky to have seen amazing things in the path of Yoga and the Red Path... I have felt a deep presence of something larger than myself. So, for me, I can feel there is some force working for our benefit even when it hurts.

When I see how gay men and survivors of abuse have been hurt by religion, my heart aches and yearns for that shame to be healed.

Oh my God I remember when I was staffing a New Warrior Training Adventure I did this huge clearing with an effigy of Jesus at this Catholic camp where we held the training. It was epic! I raged, and then collapsed into a deep well of shame.

PS For Derek and others ....

One great documentary, if you are looking for a spiritual loosening up, is called Dances of Ecstasy. It shows how different cultures experience Spirit, through ritual and dance.... there is some absolutely incredible footage in there. It's a beautiful film.

I have also wondered that, how others can follow parts of the bible but not be aware of others?

I have never doubted whether being gay was a choice or not, for me I was born this way... Guess I believed what was told to me for so many years about my salvation... I didn't listen to my own feelings, beliefs and gut... Those days are over...

I was told on a constant basis that I was going to hell... Well what I went through was hell... but I made it through it... I have done my time and it wasn't even from my own doing... No one is going to take away my salvation...

I loved the quote "there are many rivers and one ocean", thanks for sharing it...

I think some use the bible, god and jesus as a way to box themselves in... They don't feel balanced and they use it as a way to calm the storm... Anything that falls outside of that box and begins to crack away at the outer edge is rejected... I think that is where the whole "Save The World" game comes into play...

Gamgee I like how you said "If you are Christian, you should be following what Christ taught by word and example." Many who I have met have not... They use fear to teach... Well fear doesn't work for me, it just pushes me further away...

Did Jesus ever tell anyone that they were going to hell?? So why do so many others feel they can?

Jesus was not over bearing, pushy or mean... He was loving, accepting and couragous.... If Christianity was based more on that, I might be able to follow it...

So I am having to find my own path to take...

Thanks for sharing guys, I really appreciate it...

My abuser took so much from me... I am working on recovering what he took... I refuse to let anyone else take anything else away from me! Let alone my salvation and the ones I love, my happiness and my higher power. Which to me is the esscence of love!

I love the way you proclaim your birthright!

Go Derek!

thanks, I am trying... huggs