Newest Members
OxfordArms, Anony_mous, Drew6991x, Miro, jj843
12365 Registered Users
Today's Birthdays
gryffindor (67), KevinSweeney (57), latinflavor815 (52), latin_flavor_815 (52), RTMark (33), sabooka (35), southpaw10 (46)
Who's Online
4 registered (unhappycamper, carperson, aniceguy, 1 invisible), 17 Guests and 4 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Forum Stats
12365 Members
74 Forums
63552 Topics
444014 Posts

Max Online: 418 @ 07/02/12 07:29 AM
Twitter
Page 3 of 7 < 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 >
Topic Options
#346737 - 12/01/10 10:27 AM Re: Is there Salvation for those who are gay? [Re: Ever-fixed Mark]
Moortje Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 03/20/09
Posts: 104
Loc: Oregon
Originally Posted By: Ever-fixed Mark
Originally Posted By: Obi
with all due respect, i'm a southern baptist and what bothers me is the way that true christians get raked over the coals for the misinterpretations and misguided "christians" that spew forth the poison that damages the credibility...
[...]
i guess it bothers me that many people are lump us true christians into the same mold as these very outspoken, and very misguided, ones that are preaching hate instead of love...

And with equal respect, until such time as the "true christians" you speak of make some credible attempt to clean house and/or drown out these "other christians" that are damaging their reputation, I have no sympathy for the consequences they suffer.

-efm


Bravo, efm! I could not have said it better myself. That encapsulates my feelings on that matter perfectly.

~Matty


Top
#346907 - 12/02/10 05:02 PM Re: Is there Salvation for those who are gay? [Re: Moortje]
chuckb Offline


Registered: 11/05/10
Posts: 32
The statements in this thread are so vast that a simple response won't suffice. If we're going to discuss all this from a "Christian" point of view then let this faith be properly represented. A family mentioned here sound exactly like the religious leaders at the time Jesus walked the face of the earth. Jesus condemned them for their "uprightness" which was nothing more than self-righteousness. First, your family betrayed you, not God. The bible speaks of this in multiple places, one of which is "Mat 10:21 "Brother will betray brother to death, and a father his child; children will rebel against their parents and have them put to death."

Regarding the religious leaders Jesus taught, "Mat 21:31-32 "Which of the two did what his father wanted?" "The first," they answered. Jesus said to them, "I tell you the truth, the tax collectors and the prostitutes are entering the kingdom of God ahead of you. For John came to you to show you the way of righteousness, and you did not believe him, but the tax collectors and the prostitutes did. And even after you saw this, you did not repent and believe him." The god your family taught you is not the God of the bible. The God of the bible offers forgiveness to all.

Look at the rapist, will he say, "I don't like this God, He condemns me because I enjoy sex and I enjoy forcing sex on others. It's just a means of spreading love. After all, sex is love." Or the adulterer, "I just love more than one woman. I'm just spreading love, it's unreasonable to expect me to be monogamous, I have too much love in me for that." You get the point. The bible teaches that God sees all this sin and instead of bringing judgment on us all, in His love for us He decides to send His Son to take the punishment that we deserve so that we can be forgiven of all our sins, no matter how silly or even righteous they seem to us. Biblically our self esteem should not be in our sexuality, our wealth, how many friends we have, what we own, how much we make, etc, but who we are to God. According to the Christian faith as taught in the bible we mean everything to God, which prompted Him to send His only Son to punished in our stead so that we might be free and have eternal life. To the genuine Christian, he/she understands the depth of God's love, and his/her self esteem rises accordingly. He/she is grateful for God's love so that the repentant rapist no longer rapes, but builds up. The adulterer no longer commits adultery, but loves his/her spouse and family, nourishes them in the love of God, and is faithful to his/her spouse and family. They are transformed daily into the image of their God.

But the true teachings of Christianity is not that God wants to send anybody to hell, but "1 Tim 2:3-4 This is good, and pleases God our Savior, who wants all men to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth." The legalism of too many traditional denominations are destructive, and too many of us have become its victims. This is not God's fault, this is man's fault. Don't blame God for what man has done.

This is a summery of sorts of the Christian faith. If this is what you want then abandon your own desires and ideas and embrace it. If this is not what you want, instead of railing at it and making yourselves miserable find a faith that meets your standards and embrace it. Or maybe your preference is no faith at all. But a family that condemns someone who is gay while protecting someone who sexually abuses children is not behaving as the God of Christianity would have them, for this God demands that parents love and protect their children, and condemns those who don't.

If the God of Christianity is real then He offers salvation to gays as well as to prostitutes, adulterers, fornicators, thieves, slanderers, drunkards, etc. We who have been so severely abused have a great deal of difficulty in seeing this love of the Christian God. Our pains and miseries have blinded us to this, and believe me, I'm at the top of this list.

_________________________
I want to know the truth and I want to know why.l

Top
#346911 - 12/02/10 05:28 PM Re: Is there Salvation for those who are gay? [Re: chuckb]
Moortje Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 03/20/09
Posts: 104
Loc: Oregon
I decline the notion of, as a homosexual, being lumped in with the likes of prostitutes, adulterers, fornicators, thieves, slanderers, and drunkards. However, that's a comparison I all-too-often seen made (with a straight face!) as some sort of testament to the all-inclusiveness of Christianity. Oh brother.

On the other hand, I was raised in an atheist household and find great comfort in my humanism. Christianity has always struck me as exclusionary, and frankly, unbelievable. Finding true love with another man has been one of the most pure, beautiful things in my life, hardly the thing I should ever feel the need to answer, or seek forgiveness, for.

However, to those in the gay forum here who ARE looking for positive affirmation and reconciliation with their Christian faith, I truly do hope you find it. Religion is for some, and not for others. When it comes to who you love, you deserve to be loved, cherished, respected, and accepted for who you are. And you have nothing to apologize or ask forgiveness for. You do not need 'salvation' from practicing true, safe, gentle love.

~Matty


Top
#346914 - 12/02/10 05:57 PM Re: Is there Salvation for those who are gay? [Re: diamondheart]
westchesterguy Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/13/09
Posts: 421
Loc: Westchester County NY
Originally Posted By: Derek Stephens

How do you get over all that???


derek in reading your essay "i" internalized it as "noise" so much noise -- that same noise that is all around us. however, if i think back on my own recovery process that noise subsided. eventually it was gone.

i don't know that anyone can say "follow this approach" and one gets over something and/or that noise vanishes... in some respects recovery can be an isolating experience.

i think it was in that isolation where i learned how to block out the noise and to learn who was worth keeping in my life - and who was not. when all was said an done for me, god was dropped and so was the church. gave my parents notice. but when they realized that i was serious they stopped with the noise. (my rules were: if you add conditions to your love for me, i will go away.)

_________________________
Jeff

Top
#346917 - 12/02/10 06:23 PM Re: Is there Salvation for those who are gay? [Re: Moortje]
blaidd Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 12/01/00
Posts: 240
Loc: Australia
Well said Matty.... You Rock !!!!

You said what I have wanted to say every time I see a thread like this on survivor sites. Well Done.


Top
#346940 - 12/02/10 09:44 PM Re: Is there Salvation for those who are gay? [Re: chuckb]
diamondheart Offline
Member

Registered: 02/25/01
Posts: 157
Loc: Michigan
I don't know if everyone is discussing all of this from a Christian stand point? That is what has been taught/preached upon me for years... So I speak as to how it relates to me and how it has made me feel... I do not consider myself Christian or religious for that matter. I am just trying to overcome these beliefs that I have about myself due to various spiritual and sexual abuses...

For me, in order to heal, I have to question it all and by doing so I realize it does not make it so. One person's truth is not another persons and so on...

Regardless if people's teachings are off from what it says in the bible, that message is not for me.

I just don't get why others feel the need to correct others when it comes to spirituality or religion?

I think those who have been at the end of a bible when it is used as a weapon, certainly have the right to question that said faith...

This idea that homosexuality is a sin, is man made... To compare gay people to "prostitutes, adulterers, fornicators, thieves, slanderers, drunkards, etc" is to say being gay is deviant. I don't care how much someone tries to tell me what the bible says or what god says, I will not believe that being gay is wrong.

Christian's want me to believe in their God, as they see it or as it is said in the bible and many do not allow for anything that doesn't fit in that said box.

If you are comfortable with your own faith, you shouldn't feel the need to conform and save everyone else.

If God, is love... Love comes in every shape, form and size...

I guess I am unsure when people question god, religion and spirituality, why others feel the need to quote the bible? or try to get others to see god the way they do???

_________________________
I am a gay guy just trying to find my way...

http://itismytimetoshine.wordpress.com

Top
#346969 - 12/03/10 10:32 AM Re: Is there Salvation for those who are gay? [Re: diamondheart]
MrDon Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 01/08/01
Posts: 957
Loc: Deltona, FL
Sorry it is best if I just not visit this thread and delete what I just wrote. I've been way too triggered by God and religion this past week. I don't need this right now especially with the holiday time upon us. So what I wrote - is now gone.



Edited by MrDon (12/03/10 10:35 AM)
_________________________
In order to journey to new worlds, we must first be willing to lose site of the shore.

The Mind Body Thoughts Blog
http://mindbodythoughts.blogspot.com/

Check out my relaxing piano music from the heart!
http://www.donshetterly.com

Top
#346980 - 12/03/10 02:28 PM Re: Is there Salvation for those who are gay? [Re: MrDon]
chuckb Offline


Registered: 11/05/10
Posts: 32
I see no one understood what I was trying to say. In a sense I'm saying don't let your self esteem be determined by how other misrepresent a particular faith, in this case Christianity. If you are an atheist and find comfort in your humanism then fine, go with it. I'm not disagreeing that people have used religion to hurt and destroy other people. I have many questions myself, Christianity is one thing I'm questioning and studying as I travel my road to healing (hopefully). As far as Christianity is concerned, whether its true or false, those who use it to destroy others are misrepresenting that particular faith. I'm just suggesting that you learn the difference if you're seeking comfort from this faith. It's not the faith but the people who misrepresent it that has hurt you. The faith itself teaches that there is hope, forgiveness and healing, and that is what we are all seeking isn't it?

If Christianity isn't your cup of tea then what I'm saying really has no meaning for you. I'm addressing this to those who want to find their answers in this particular faith. This particular faith says that homosexuality, prostitution, adultery, etc are sins. If you disagree with this then Christianity is not the faith for you, seek elsewhere. If it is the faith for you then instead of trying to change what it clearly states, conform yourself to what it teaches. You won't find peace by distorting it's teachings. Seek another faith or no faith at all if that is your desire. Don't torment yourself or let others torment you over this. I was merely trying to help you set your self esteem by a means other than your family who misrepresented the faith they say they belong to.

A final statement, if one is truly a Christian then he/she is compelled out of love to try and persuade others that there is hope, forgiveness, healing and eternal life in their God. If they don't then they are not being true to their faith. It means that they do love and care for you no matter how misguided you think they are. Try seeing that, that they do love you and care about you rather than trying to destroy you. Look at them from a different point of view, it might help you to see yourself in a different light, as someone who is lovable. This will help your self esteem. It doesn't matter whether the person is a Christian, a Muslim, a Jew, etc. People who lovingly share their faith you care about you and want the best for you.

_________________________
I want to know the truth and I want to know why.l

Top
#346988 - 12/03/10 04:14 PM Re: Is there Salvation for those who are gay? [Re: blaidd]
Moortje Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 03/20/09
Posts: 104
Loc: Oregon
Originally Posted By: blaidd
Well said Matty.... You Rock !!!!

You said what I have wanted to say every time I see a thread like this on survivor sites. Well Done.


Thanks blaidd! I've always found such false equivalences insulting and felt the need to speak up.

Heal well blaidd,
~Matty


Top
#347075 - 12/04/10 11:14 AM Re: Is there Salvation for those who are gay? [Re: chuckb]
diamondheart Offline
Member

Registered: 02/25/01
Posts: 157
Loc: Michigan
Originally Posted By: chuckb
I see no one understood what I was trying to say. In a sense I'm saying don't let your self esteem be determined by how other misrepresent a particular faith, in this case Christianity. If you are an atheist and find comfort in your humanism then fine, go with it. I'm not disagreeing that people have used religion to hurt and destroy other people. I have many questions myself, Christianity is one thing I'm questioning and studying as I travel my road to healing (hopefully). As far as Christianity is concerned, whether its true or false, those who use it to destroy others are misrepresenting that particular faith. I'm just suggesting that you learn the difference if you're seeking comfort from this faith. It's not the faith but the people who misrepresent it that has hurt you. The faith itself teaches that there is hope, forgiveness and healing, and that is what we are all seeking isn't it?

If Christianity isn't your cup of tea then what I'm saying really has no meaning for you. I'm addressing this to those who want to find their answers in this particular faith. This particular faith says that homosexuality, prostitution, adultery, etc are sins. If you disagree with this then Christianity is not the faith for you, seek elsewhere. If it is the faith for you then instead of trying to change what it clearly states, conform yourself to what it teaches. You won't find peace by distorting it's teachings. Seek another faith or no faith at all if that is your desire. Don't torment yourself or let others torment you over this. I was merely trying to help you set your self esteem by a means other than your family who misrepresented the faith they say they belong to.

A final statement, if one is truly a Christian then he/she is compelled out of love to try and persuade others that there is hope, forgiveness, healing and eternal life in their God. If they don't then they are not being true to their faith. It means that they do love and care for you no matter how misguided you think they are. Try seeing that, that they do love you and care about you rather than trying to destroy you. Look at them from a different point of view, it might help you to see yourself in a different light, as someone who is lovable. This will help your self esteem. It doesn't matter whether the person is a Christian, a Muslim, a Jew, etc. People who lovingly share their faith you care about you and want the best for you.


I don't ever remember hearing about Jesus trying to persuade others? So why do others of the same faith feel like they have to? I don't want to get into an arguement about being gay and christianity but there are christian churches that do accept gay people and don't believe in this ideology that if your gay your going to hell.. These churches aren't conforming to what you believe the Christian faith to be.

I think the jury is still out whether or not the Christian faith says that a persons sexual orientation is a sin... God did not write the bible. Man did.. As those have been on the end of the bible as a weapon, can see that men of god don't always speak from the truth... Plus there are examples that views and beliefs can change, look at the old testement. Finally there are only six or seven>
_________________________
I am a gay guy just trying to find my way...

http://itismytimetoshine.wordpress.com

Top
Page 3 of 7 < 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 >


Moderator:  ModTeam 

I agree that my access and use of the MaleSurvivor discussion forums and chat room is subject to the terms of this Agreement. AND the sole discretion of MaleSurvivor.
I agree that my use of MaleSurvivor resources are AT-WILL, and that my posting privileges may be terminated at any time, and for any reason by MaleSurvivor.