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#346130 - 11/24/10 08:45 AM Re: New on MS - Reaching out to partners of Survivors [Re: lostcowboy]
Mountainous Buck Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 12/15/09
Posts: 1626
Loc: Minnesota
I was the kind of man your SO is-my wife trusted her gut and confronted me and i stopped lying that day-8 1/2 years ago-I had spent years acting out and several years early Inour relationship NOT acting out also. I was trapped seeking sexual relief in ways that mirrored my abuse:'anonymous one night hook ups with other men that made me feel in control on the hunt and powerful. No amount of success in career, family ,'money made a difference to my fundamental issues.

I was also in AA but dishonest isolated and trusted no one. I joined a sex addiction twelve step program and followed their experience and program-instead of just being a spectator.



My wife and I separated. Given my infidelity and putting her at risk-the relationship as it existed was over. I didn't need her support-I needed her anger and honesty. Her wish for me was that I pursue recovery like my life depended on it-cuz without recovery and hring for my stuff, I was not suitable for any relationship.

I got help. I got honest. I stopped pursuing sex so I could sort out my life and sexuality. After I got so time sober and clean and had men in my life to support me, we began therapy and were willing to work on things.

If your SO is not willing to change-walk away and create a life where you have a chance for joy and happiness. I am grateful my wife confronted me and knew how to get support from her groups and friends and practice a healthy appproach to her painful situation. The principles of Al-Anon 12 step groups are the best IMHO to deal with family who are lost in acting out their pain and abuse.

There is hope-but only on the path of truth and honesty. Keep reaching out for answers and plain old support-you have good intuition from my view reading your posts-trust it and don't be afraid to ask for what you truly need. Avoid controlling and investigating unless you check it out with someone first who has been there.

Feel free to read my posts under my profile for more of my story. Tell your SO that there is help out there-IF he asks for it and takes action.



Edited by Mountainous Buck (11/24/10 08:49 AM)
_________________________
We have to take responsibility for what we're not responsible for.

“It doesn't matter where you've come from,
It matters where you go" Frank Turner

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#346131 - 11/24/10 08:52 AM Re: New on MS - Reaching out to partners of Survivors [Re: Mountainous Buck]
Mountainous Buck Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 12/15/09
Posts: 1626
Loc: Minnesota
Just so you know-we did get back together and she's worked on her pain and abuse issues too-I don't isolate or shut down anymore as a regular event. She used to laugh that aliens replaced the man she used to know with the new me-that is the vision I hold for mysf on my road.

_________________________
We have to take responsibility for what we're not responsible for.

“It doesn't matter where you've come from,
It matters where you go" Frank Turner

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#346338 - 11/27/10 08:36 AM Re: New on MS - Reaching out to partners of Survivors [Re: lostcowboy]
SeekingStrength Offline


Registered: 11/18/10
Posts: 16
Hi all, thanks for the replies. I will reply ASAP. My fiancé and I are spending Thanksgiving with his family so Ill get back to everyone early next week. Thank you for your support!

_________________________
"God grant me the serenity to accept the things I can not change, the strength to change the things I can and the wisdom to know the difference".

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#346670 - 11/30/10 12:59 PM Re: New on MS - Reaching out to partners of Survivors [Re: lostcowboy]
SeekingStrength Offline


Registered: 11/18/10
Posts: 16
Dear Wardpoet,

Thank you for your insight. I think it's so important to understand that this is neither my fault or his fault - this is the perp's fault. I think that is a healthy way of looking at it. Another thing you mentioned was that you found it hard to disagree without too much emotion. Can you tell me a little more about that, if you dont mind? How about people disagreeing with you? How did you react to that?


Hi Lostcowboy,

Thank you too, for sharing your thoughts. I did read the post that you suggested, and it did shed a little light, although it also lead me to start wondering things that I dont have answers to...I want to believe my fiance has been honest with me about whats been going on during our relationship, and if he has been with other people during that time or not. At the same time that I am researching and learning, a lot of what I am reading creates fear in me that maybe he hasn't been honest about the extent of his acting out and his ability to "control it" in future. I will certainly look up more info on the book you recommended, thank you. I think I need to slow things down a bit for myself; first try make peace with what I already do understand, then see if I still the same questions I do now.

Hi InsidetheWall,

Thank you for your insight and for your understanding. It really helps me put things into perspective.

In answer to your questions - I think he has the ability to get physical, if things continue to escalate the way they are. I know that we have had undue pressure as a couple even without the events that led to me finding the emails.

I know if he had to read your post about me being more assertive, he would laugh! In my opinion, and in his, I am pretty assertive. I think that is one of his issues with me though - he sees my attempts at assertiveness over what I expect, as a means to "control" him. He refuses to be given "rules" or ultimatums - even if he knows deep down it is only to help him and its the right thing to do.


Anyway, the conversation lead to me asking about his search for a therapist, and he has committed to having one by this Friday..lets see. I guess I am at the point that I am only prepared to go down this long road with him, IF he reaches out to find someone/people that can assist him on his journey. Its been 8 months now, and nothing is changing, we are just going in the same circles, and I'm getting more and more convinced I may not be strong enough to deal with everything anymore.

I also mentioned I want us to look at software that would prevent him from going onto the sites he trolled to find escorts, at least until he is more enlightened about why he acts out, and what it means.

He lost it. He said no - he will not be controlled that way. We ended up getting back into the same old stupid argument. He says there is nothing to hide. I said great, then he doesnt have anything to worry about, but this is for my peace of mind -0 and if he has nothing to hide, then he doesnt need to freak out about it. He refused.

I pretty much told him that if he doesnt want to accept that boundary from me, his fiance, under the circumstances we are in, then he is not ready to be in this relationship, and I will dump him. I told him its not for me to check every day, I just want to know he wont be able to go onto those sites anymore. He was initially angry and said "fine, then dump me, Im not going to be controlled".

I explained it to him the way you did to me...and he then agreed. It was a bitter victory - I don't feel good about it at all. I dont want to be controlling but I guess that is the way he sees me anyway.

Well, he is great with computers, so probably will find a way to get around any installed software....I dont even know if I see the point to be honest. He has this thing about being "controlled". Surely if I insist we install this software, it's just going to lead to him rebelling against it??

I guess I just dont know what the right thing to do is anymore. I just want him to start seeing how the CSA is affecting the way he filters things, and interprets things. I guess the way he is, is because of survival techniques he learned to get through it all. It must be tough to shed the things that have served you throughout your life, when they no longer serve you.

Half of me wants to be the one to tell him what my insight on all this is, but I also know its not my place to shine the light for him. I am too close to this situation to give an opinion that's construed as neutral. Its also possible I actually dont have the right understanding anyway!:-)


He probably isnt going to go back to AA since their principles are very religious, and he just isnt comfortable with that. I will send him the link to SIA, thanks.

Thanks for your wisdom - it definitely helps mature my perception of our circumstances. I feel better than last week already! Sometimes when things seem beyond hope, it helps just to think "I dont need to do anything about this today. Live with this just one more day/week, then see how I feel about it then"

~Nothing stays the same forever - change is the only constant~





Edited by SeekingStrength (12/13/10 03:39 PM)
_________________________
"God grant me the serenity to accept the things I can not change, the strength to change the things I can and the wisdom to know the difference".

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#346675 - 11/30/10 01:11 PM Re: New on MS - Reaching out to partners of Survivors [Re: SeekingStrength]
SeekingStrength Offline


Registered: 11/18/10
Posts: 16
Hi Mountainous Buck,

Oops, dont know how, but I missed your post until now.

Thank you very much for sharing. Thank you for saying I should trust my intuition. I'm sure other partners of survivors will agree when I say that sometimes we start thinking we are crazy, maybe imagining some of the things we notice.

When you say you didnt need her understanding, you needed her anger and honesty...can you explain that in more detail for me please?

I guess I will share my biggest fear with you. I am afraid my fiance is still hiding a huge part of himself from me, because he is ashamed of his "urges", or acting out. I am worried he has not been honest about meeting up with other men/TS's, and that I am going to be put at risk by this, physically and emotionally.

Even since my confrontation 6 months ago, he continues to be secretive, and lies about things if he feels it may lead to a confrontation. He is always saying he is being more open and honest, yet I keep finding out (when his stories keep changing) that he is lying. About ridiculous things that dont even matter!

Anyway, I am going to an OB-GYN on Thursday for a check-up, and going to ask for STD tests too. Even more than "what is the truth" is that I am not putting my own health at risk. I know it sounds crazy that I feel the need to do this, while I am with someone I love and should trust.....I guess I dont want to put my own life at risk.

Dont know why I feel so guilty though.....

_________________________
"God grant me the serenity to accept the things I can not change, the strength to change the things I can and the wisdom to know the difference".

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#346677 - 11/30/10 01:45 PM Re: New on MS - Reaching out to partners of Survivors [Re: SeekingStrength]
Sobernow Offline


Registered: 05/17/10
Posts: 256
Loc: Oklahoma
It would be good for him to get STD testing also.

In my case --- the teenagers on the sofa together would trigger strong emotions also ---- "normal" for me.

Perhaps there might be a way to get him into some type of 12-step recovery group -- for sexual addictions.

The internet filtering is actually a good idea for everyone in the household. safeeyes bsafe covenanteyes

You might want to go to counseling also.

These are all things I have done myself -- along with my wife.


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#346699 - 11/30/10 07:51 PM Re: New on MS - Reaching out to partners of Survivors [Re: SeekingStrength]
InsideTheWall Offline


Registered: 01/10/09
Posts: 280
Originally Posted By: SeekingStrength


Hi InsidetheWall,

Thank you for your insight and for your understanding. It really helps me put things into perspective.
Thanks, I think the people on this thread have alot to offer in terms of experience.

Originally Posted By: SeekingStrength
In answer to your questions - I think he has the ability to get physical, if things continue to escalate the way they are. I know that we have had undue pressure as a couple even without the events that led to me finding the emails.

It sounds like you two have a rather volatile relationship. If you he ever hits you, leave and don't go back.

Originally Posted By: SeekingStrength
I know if he had to read your post about me being more assertive, he would laugh! In my opinion, and in his, I am pretty assertive. I think that is one of his issues with me though - he sees my attempts at assertiveness over what I expect, as a means to "control" him. He refuses to be given "rules" or ultimatums - even if he knows deep down it is only to help him and its the right thing to do.
He resents being controlled, and frankly so do I. I think its a side affect of being so horribly controlled before. Still, he needs to learn to cede some control over if you're to be married.

Originally Posted By: SeekingStrength
We had a bit of an incident over Thanksgiving. He has a 14 year old Niece and a 13 year old Nephew. They are obviously very close, teasing each other, hugging now and then, sitting on the same couch in front of the family, etc. He came to me at one stage to say he thinks there is something going on between the two of them, something sexual. I was dubious, but spent the next day paying more attention. I honestly just saw 2 kids being teenagers, nothing sexual between them. He gave me a funny look at one stage, and I looked over to them. The niece was sitting next to the nephew on the couch and had one leg raised and rested on his. They were both watching TV in front of everyone else, relaxed, not looking unusual at all. I mean, she is very affectionate - she does the same things to my fiance too, and its not sexual. Its just a girl being a girl. We ended up getting into a disagreement over what we were seeing, and maybe I shouldnt have mentioned it, but I asked him if its not a possibility that his own CSA may be triggered by seeing kids cuddling etc.
It quite possibly is. I know being around that kind of thing would make me a tad nervous and hyper vigilant.

Originally Posted By: SeekingStrength
He said its possible, but he didnt see that it could affect the way he acts towards them if he is thinking that way. I probably dont understand it enough to know what to make of it.
He may have bought into the myth of victims becoming perpetrators. The majority of victims don't offend, but I can't help but sense a Freudian slip. The fear is much more common than the reality.

Originally Posted By: SeekingStrength
Anyway, the conversation lead to me asking about his search for a therapist, and he has committed to having one by this Friday..lets see.
That we will. Finding a therapist for this sort of thing isn't fast or easy even when he's sincerely looking. How long has he been looking? I take it he wasn't interested in SIA?

Originally Posted By: SeekingStrength
I guess I am at the point that I am only prepared to go down this long road with him, IF he reaches out to find someone/people that can assist him on his journey.
A good therapist is hard to find. Thats why sometimes groups are better.

Originally Posted By: SeekingStrength
Its been 6 months now, and nothing is changing, we are just going in the same circles, and I'm getting more and more convinced I may not be strong enough to deal with everything anymore.
Has he allegedly been seeking treatment of some kind that long?

Originally Posted By: SeekingStrength
I also mentioned I want us to look at software that would prevent him from going onto the sites he trolled to find escorts, at least until he is more enlightened about why he acts out, and what it means.

He lost it. He said no - he will not be controlled that way. We ended up getting back into the same old stupid argument. He says there is nothing to hide. I said great, then he doesnt have anything to worry about, but this is for my peace of mind -0 and if he has nothing to hide, then he doesnt need to freak out about it. He refused.

I pretty much told him that if he doesnt want to accept that boundary from me, his fiance, under the circumstances we are in, then he is not ready to be in this relationship, and I will dump him. I told him its not for me to check every day, I just want to know he wont be able to go onto those sites anymore. He was initially angry and said "fine, then dump me, Im not going to be controlled".

I explained it to him the way you did to me...and he then agreed. It was a bitter victory - I don't feel good about it at all. I dont want to be controlling but I guess that is the way he sees me anyway.
You shouldn't feel good about it, but it was needed. Sometimes his submission, even grudging submission, can be a win for you. If things turn out well over time, he'll eventually find a way to rationalize it. If not, you haven't lost anything anyway by winning this particular argument. Its not exactly a Pyrrhic victory.

Originally Posted By: SeekingStrength
Well, he is an IT developer, so probably will find a way to get around any installed software....
As another IT guy, I can tell you ways to make it harder for him, but they're essentially road bumps. Windows passwords are quite crackable if you know how or can follow instructions on Google. Besides, he can boot directly into Linux from a burned cd. When he restarts the computer and removes the cd, all evidence will be gone.

If he's an IT guy, he likely knows all this. A much more foolproof approach is to deny him physical access to the computer. That he will never find a way to hack around.

Originally Posted By: SeekingStrength
I dont even know if I see the point to be honest. He has this thing about being "controlled". Surely if I insist we install this software, it's just going to lead to him rebelling against it??
Just don't allow him access to the computer. Seriously, he'll get around anything else if he's determined. If you're worried, lock the computer in your trunk and visit here from the library.

Originally Posted By: SeekingStrength
I guess I just dont know what the right thing to do is anymore. I just want him to start seeing how the CSA is affecting the way he filters things, and interprets things. I guess the way he is, is because of survival techniques he learned to get through it all. It must be tough to shed the things that have served you throughout your life, when they no longer serve you.
You're right. Once learned, these lessons are very hard to unlearn and he'll always have remnants of them within him. You have to understand, he was essentially tortured as a child/adolescent and he's always going to be a bit different because of it. Post Traumatic Stress Disorder is common in these cases.

Originally Posted By: SeekingStrength
Half of me wants to be the one to tell him what my insight on all this is, but I also know its not my place to shine the light for him. I am too close to this situation to give an opinion that's construed as neutral. Its also possible I actually dont have the right understanding anyway!:-)
You're allowed to shine light, but its best to wait until he asks. If he never asks, thats not good.

Originally Posted By: SeekingStrength
He probably isnt going to go back to AA since their principles are very religious, and he just isnt comfortable with that.
I'm the same way about AA to be honest. A pity really, I hate to be so hard on him. It sounds like he and I might get along in alot of ways. We're both CSA victims, IT guys, and a little skeptical about religion and AA. I was very resistant to getting help for a long time too.

Originally Posted By: SeekingStrength
I will send him the link to SIA, thanks.
He might want to know that SIA is a 12 step thing too, but at least my local chapter I think is a little more flexible on the god stuff. This is specifically addressed within the literature he'll receive at his first meeting, and there will also be many insightful questions included for him. IMO, those questions are worth the trip alone.

Originally Posted By: SeekingStrength
Thanks for your wisdom - it definitely helps mature my perception of our circumstances. I feel better than last week already! Sometimes when things seem beyond hope, it helps just to think "I dont need to do anything about this today. Live with this just one more day/week, then see how I feel about it then"
Just keep going a day at a time, and if it becomes too much, look out for yourself. I'm glad MS has been helpful to you.

Originally Posted By: SeekingStrength
~Nothing stays the same forever - change is the only constant~

I think thats actually a Buddhist teaching. Or maybe Hindu.



Edited by InsideTheWall (11/30/10 11:11 PM)

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#346705 - 11/30/10 10:02 PM Re: New on MS - Reaching out to partners of Survivors [Re: InsideTheWall]
SunnyGirl Offline


Registered: 07/13/10
Posts: 79
SeekingStrength,
To reiterate what InsideTheWall said, finding a good T is hard to do. If you are helping your fiance in his search or if you are searching for your own T, you might try expanding your search from just Ts that are experienced in SA to those that specialize in "trauma" or "PTSD" -- that's how my T explained his experience and he's fantastic. I am a supporter, but found that other Ts I had been to were judgmental (e.g., "the abuse sounds like an excuse") and they were not understanding of SA issues, but this one gets it.

Often times Ts offer a free phone consultation or at least email -- that's a great thing to take them up on. Let your fiance call or email a few and see if he gets a good vibe from them and suggest that he ask plenty of questions.

One thing to ask about is their approach. My T takes a "relationship" approach and is intentionally non-judgmental. He's not there to tell me what to do or tell me "the right answer," but he is there to help guide me and help me set goals and boundaries, while also being empathetic and sharing things about himself that show me that he understands how I'm feeling. I don't know if that approach is common, but it's what works well for me. That might work well for your fiance. Another thing to consider is the T's religious beliefs or his/her experience working with gay clients. I am not implying your fiance is gay. I just bring this up because, if, for example, a T has very conservative views that are not in line with your fiance's, that difference in their beliefs might make it difficult for your fiance to open up and trust a particular T. Another thing to ask about is whether the T allows emails or text messages at any time that additional support is needed. My T provides those "extras" for free and I've found it so helpful if I find myself overwhelmed. Those are a few things I can think of to ask about to see if a particular T is a good match for your fiance.

I hope your fiance does find someone that's helpful to him, but don't be surprised if for some reason he needs to switch to another one. From my own experience and other people's experiences here, it sounds like it's uncommon to find the perfect T on the first try.

SunnyGirl

_________________________
"When one door of happiness closes, another opens, but often we look so long at the closed door that we do not see the one that has been opened for us." - H. Keller

"Change & growth take place when a person has risked himself & dares to become involved w/ experimenting w/ his own life." - H. Otto

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#346813 - 12/01/10 09:46 PM Re: New on MS - Reaching out to partners of Survivors [Re: SeekingStrength]
Mountainous Buck Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 12/15/09
Posts: 1626
Loc: Minnesota
Hi SeekingStrength:

Funny you should mention "crazy" because that was a theme our first several months when I was finally actively in recovery for my sex addiction: "crazy making"-that meant my input into the relationship didn't make sense, it was crazy, I was crazy because my internal logic was all wound up around acting out and untreated addiction.

"It is what it is" right now. If he is not getting help, he will continue to act in odd ways, and act out, and your gut will be a guide to the truth.

You asked me:

"you needed her anger and honesty...can you explain that in more detail for me please?"

I need to know she was serious about having a healthy relationship and that she communicate her anger, fear, and feelings without shading. This helped me out of the denial that was so powerful in my life.

As for understanding, I knew she loved me regardless, but she could not provide the understanding and support of other men in my 12-step groups who had a more realistic perspective of my issues and were not attached emotionally like my wife was.

Thanks for sharing your biggest fear - know your truth!

It is rational to be afraid and not trust: that is a sane reaction to what has been going on. Trust has to be earned-it took me several months of hard work to get to that point with my wife where she could start to trust me.

From the start, my wife knew I had been unfaithful (i.e. sexual outside our marriage-so when I told her she needed to get tested for STD's that wasn't a huge bombshell from out of the blue, as devastating as that was.

Sobernow had some great advice: get help, get tested, trust your gut: IMHO six months is enough for him to start getting his act together, I'd start pulling back and taking care of myself 100% and see if he shows up for life or continues to hide.

AA is not religious, has he gone to at least six meetings and talked to different people? The people in AA are staying sober, if he wants sobriety, he'll make a stronger attempt.

That's the universal question: "Does he want to stop this behavior enough to work at it like his future depends on it?"

_________________________
We have to take responsibility for what we're not responsible for.

“It doesn't matter where you've come from,
It matters where you go" Frank Turner

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#347317 - 12/06/10 04:43 PM Re: New on MS - Reaching out to partners of Survivors [Re: Mountainous Buck]
SeekingStrength Offline


Registered: 11/18/10
Posts: 16
THANKS ALL, for your input! In reply:

Sobernow:

I sent my fiance the link to a 12 step sex addict site as well as a book recommended by someone on here.......no feedback from him to date. I have sent him links to this site too, but I think he feels threatened, because I told him I was a member on the site. I did mention there are threads which are for men only, and he would be assured his privacy...I dont think he is keen:-(

I like the idea of finding myself a T, I am about to pull my hair out from frustration at my fiance still not doing much to seek help, ANY type of help...

InsideTheWall,

Thanks again - I really value your insight and input, more than you know! I mentioned to my fiance that there is someone awesome on MS that I have been chatting to, that may have a few cool things in common with him. He still has not joined, nor checked out the various links I sent him to the 12 step sex addict program, books, other sites...he promised 2 weeks ago to have made an initial appointment with a T by last Friday. He has been promising since my confrontation with him in April this year - its been 8 months and all I get are excuses. I didnt even ask on Friday. He just mentioned to me very quickly in the evening, that he found 2 T's, tried to call...voicemail. I suggested he email, or at least set up a call where he can "interview" them to see if he likes them. He just nods, and the weekend went on.

This is how its been going for months now. I have done everything I can think of, even giving him an ultimatum (which I didnt want to, but after reading everyone's advice on here about him stalling, I did)...and it just doesnt seem to be working.

He is a very intelligent, head strong man...I know him well enough to know that he feels he can "beat this" own his own, without help. He agrees to go for help when things get out of hand between us, but then the cycle of "rationalising" his behavior to himself starts again. He ends up underplaying what happened, and makes it into a non-issue. He has always been aware of his CSA, but I also think he has made it this far in life without help, and having a great job etc, he probably thinks he doesnt need help.

He does notice his overreactions, and admits his acting out with the escorts/other random's online was wrong, and has been wrong. Yet he has obviously spent years soul searching on his own to find answers to his depression, sexuality confusion, thoughts of self hatred, feeling different to everyone. I think he feels he has it under control.....and possibly just because he hasnt acted out since my confrontation with him (7 months ago).

This is just going in circles. He is extremely resistant about talking about this at all, even just me asking how the search for a T is going. He clams up, tries to get out the convo ASAP without committing.

When things are good, he commits but doesn't do anything. When things are bad, or we argue, he tells me its ME that needs help, and that Im crazy for not trusting him, and its me overreacting, not him.

Sometimes I wonder if its true...but I know I am not imagining the fall-out of how CSA is ruining our relationship, especially when he is in denial, and my hands are tied. I know one thing - I cant continue down this path much longer or I will lose my sanity.

As for the laptops, and me refusing him access....we have 2 laptops in the house, he has 2 work laptops at work, and an Iphone. I cannot possibly refuse him access to all. He rarely uses his home laptop, and when he does, I am here. I dont think it would be a regular day that I would need to worry about - its more if we were to have a fight, or he had to go out drinking etc....thats when his acting out cycles apparently have always begun. Its hard for him to do with me around, and Im nearly always around..so ...guess that will do for now.

Dear SunnyGirl and Mountainous Buck

Thanks for your input too. SG, I think you saying he may have a fear of a T taking advantage of him hits the nail on the head. Or at least giving him the wrong advice, or leading him down the wrong road. I know he has had sexuality confusion in the past, and he has mentioned to me he doesnt want a T who wont understand the link with CSA and who tells him "You are actually gay". Its a realistic fear....I have also read about how many uneducated T's there are out there that do so much more damage than good. I just wish my fiance would start SOMEWHERE....anywhere, even if it means he switches a few times, or has to interview a few telephonically first. Yet he is still dragging his feet. Its in his hands now though - I have done all I can for the time being.

MountainessB.....your words brought tears to my eyes. :-( Only because you are right.....


"""Sobernow had some great advice: get help, get tested, trust your gut: IMHO six months is enough for him to start getting his act together, I'd start pulling back and taking care of myself 100% and see if he shows up for life or continues to hide.""""


For me, leaving here not only admits defeat over the affects of CSA on our relationship, but means letting go of our dreams, and going back to my country, and having to start all over from scratch again.


It breaks my heart to think of how happy we used to be, BEFORE I found proof of his acting out. Sometimes I wish I never followed my gut, and looked through his emails. But....I would then also be living in denial along with him.


OK, Im getting sad....going for a little bit. Be back ASAP.

Keep well all, and thanks for all your help. I feel selfish now because Im wallowing in self pity today.....but maybe I just need my moment too.

_________________________
"God grant me the serenity to accept the things I can not change, the strength to change the things I can and the wisdom to know the difference".

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