Newest Members
Aurigny, Luther, LuckyCharm, Jennifer Lyons, TantraPunk
12250 Registered Users
Today's Birthdays
Brandon (23), doctorfrau (51), dwigginsr (55), Glen (43), RFB (58)
Who's Online
4 registered (woodenshoes, 3 invisible), 54 Guests and 5 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Forum Stats
12250 Members
73 Forums
63101 Topics
441285 Posts

Max Online: 418 @ 07/02/12 07:29 AM
Twitter
Page 2 of 3 < 1 2 3 >
Topic Options
#345645 - 11/18/10 10:02 AM Re: What is the difference in treating ASA versus CSA? [Re: prisonerID]
earlybird Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/17/10
Posts: 1007
Loc: WA USA
I like to join in on this conversation and to thank Sam for starting this thread. I have some trepidation in speaking my mind for fear that it will be mistaken for somehow trying to separate us for the larger community of survivors. I already feel distant and donít wish to further separate myself and I hope that some will cut me some slack if I do not express myself in a way that is acceptable.

Daryl, your comment about using the word assault verses abuse is spot on and I believe just that one tweak of verbiage changes the overall perspective for the writer and the reader. In abuse the child is placed into the unbearable position of trying to separate and untangle issues of what is love? Who can I trust? Where was the protection, I and all children, deserve from adults? I know this is a shorten list of major issues and confusion for a CSA and trust me, if you can, I admire all of you who are struggling to gain understanding and growth beyond the damage done.

For me the issues are extremely different. I struggle greatly with the fear and concepts such as knowing death so intimately. I donít struggle with why was I not protected I wrestle with the fact I failed to protect myself. Each time I read a CSA stating his anger as to why he wasnít protected I feel the blade of shame and guilt for not protecting myself. I was the adult that failed to protect! It is me you are railing against. I understand this anger towards those who are to protect and donít. You have a right to be angry. I share this same anger but the problem is, is that it is directed at myself. I also struggle with the failure of not recognizing the situation for what it was and changing the outcome. Also the knowledge I gave into my fears. Then there is the anger and struggles with the inner demon of hate. A foreign resident that now had been forced into my heart and psyche through the penis of two other men. Hate now a roommate I detest and have struggled to evict. I know that the CSA struggles with anger, fear, and hate as well. I have read hundreds of accounts on this issue with the CSAís but I still feel there is a different conversation to be had with the ASAís.

Again my thanks to Sam. Earlybird

_________________________
Balanced (My goal)

There is symmetry
In self-reflection
Life exemplified
Grace personified

Top
#345648 - 11/18/10 10:40 AM Re: What is the difference in treating ASA versus CSA? [Re: prisonerID]
SamV Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 12/13/09
Posts: 5940
Loc: Talladega, Alabama, USA
Daryl,

My sincere appreciation for your clarification. May your recovery be lined with expanded definitions. May you find the defining explanation that settles the trauma into manageable expressions. It seems you may be well on your way, IMHO.

The definition of abuse is improper, harmful, offensive, harsh, insultingly, sexual, improper, corrupt, and can be self-inflicted or perpetrated by another.
This IS too broad, and therefore generalizes specific criminal definitions and the specific symptoms and treatments of ASA.

Assault is violent, unlawful, in association with battery, threatening, close combat, attack or assail.
The correct moniker specifically and correctly does take ambiguity out of the act, and aims the legal, and medical profession to understand and validate the specifics unique to this felonious act.

May we all continue to hone ASA and educate the system, our suffering brothers, and supporters to the symptoms and recovery of ASA, Adult Sexual Assault.

Thank you,
Sam

_________________________
MaleSurvivor Moderator Emeritus 2012 - 2014

Top
#345649 - 11/18/10 11:21 AM Re: ...treating ASA versus CSA? may trigger [Re: earlybird]
SamV Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 12/13/09
Posts: 5940
Loc: Talladega, Alabama, USA
You and I have shared much, Eeb's, and my perspective has been sharpened, thanks to your insight.

I admire your post, Earlybird. Before you get into your abuse definitions, you place common ground between the reader and the author, very humble, very pleasing, many thanks. The effort is enthusiastically reciprocated.

The certainty of power, identity and confidence in oneself in mature adult perspective is very solid. Adults are their own masters of their destiny, and can think and act without a net, autonomous.
Then, this vicious act of assault rips at the core of the solidity. Constriction, control, violation, manipulation, helplessness, rage and fear mingling with blood and sweat.

The man is confronted with his frailty, his limits, his mortality. He is condemned to accept the parameters of the abuse as the nature of his "universe." He retreats, the vision of his future on fire, immanent destruction, yes, even death.
The assault has made the man gaze upon his own death, and to recognize himself in that state.

The tumult continues, internally, unabated. ASA's turmoil surrounds the victim, not the circumstances. "Why didn't I?" "I am more than this!" "Where was my power?" The victim never gets the relief, the benefit of the doubt, the access to healing.

There is no "higher authority", no one who was supposed to protect, the victim is the security, and so in losing the identity of the victim, the security is lost as well. The protector, the seer, the warrior, the valuable cargo, all lost. The battle is over, the victim has suffered total and complete loss. The little he had is taken.

The treatment? May I? In my arrogance? May I offer?

The sufferer is a forest, the attacker, an arsonist. Ravaged and desolate, the coal black stricken towers of once majestic pillars, now smoldering in twisted pain.
The end has come, it is finished.
... Wait!
... What is this?
While there are those that look to the surface, and grieve that which is singed and burnt, those who know, are scouring the earth.
... What for?
As the attacker claimed victory, as that piece of filth claimed the spirit of the man, unbeknown to the braggart, was the forest's courageous defense, and its salvation.
For unknown to the attacker, the forest spread its seed, and the fire that consumed the trees and bush, could not clutch, could not consume the seed.
The seed does again grow the forest, the attacker does wane and fade, shriveled by the inner fuels and toxins that consume.
The forest finds rebirth, and in that... security and identity. It's beauty and resilience a magnificent sight on the horizon.., the forest.., the man.

To Earlybird, to my brothers, to the ASA survivors that have so graciously given me a glimpse into their suffering and recovery, my sincerest appreciation.

Sam



Edited by sasuva (11/18/10 11:39 AM)
Edit Reason: poetic license
_________________________
MaleSurvivor Moderator Emeritus 2012 - 2014

Top
#345726 - 11/19/10 04:01 AM Re: ...treating ASA versus CSA? may trigger [Re: SamV]
Ever-fixed Mark Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 01/02/10
Posts: 725
Loc: United States
I really appreciate the effort of my brothers who were sexually assaulted as adults to educate us. I found this publication from New South Wales in Australia called " When a Man is Raped" informative and practical.

Are there any recommended resources for ASA survivors that we need to have pinned somewhere for reference?

-efm

_________________________

Everybody here's got a story to tell
Everybody's been through their own hell
There's nothing too special about getting hurt
Getting over it, that takes the work

- "Duck and Cover" by Glen Phillips

Top
#345738 - 11/19/10 08:41 AM Re: ...treating ASA versus CSA? may trigger [Re: Ever-fixed Mark]
prisonerID Offline
Greeter Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/17/08
Posts: 1247
Loc: Oklahoma
"Remind yourself that you did what seemed best at the time
to survive - there's nothing unmasculine about that."

This is from the above booklet that efm posted. I just read this and found it to be one of the best things I have seen in a long time. I never heard it put that way. I read through page 14 and will finish reading this evening. This seems to be a very well thought out and informative booklet.

efm, thanks for finding and posting this here. It would be good to have some reference sites or articles available for men who come here. I would like to see the site library expanded in that direction but realize there is not much out there.

I spoke with another man who is ASA here and he related a deep fear for himself. He asked that I write it here in his place. He talked of how he wrestles with leftover shadows from his assault. He related how his, in his eyes, lack of ability to prevent the assault and protect himself haunts him as a father and husband. That sense of failure still haunts him in the thoughts of being the man his family needs especially in an emergency or dangerous situation. He thought it may be his own unique issue but I would say there are other men here who have wives or partners and children.

I will not argue with him since this is his posting. I will only repeat something: "Remind yourself that you did what seemed best at the time to survive - there's nothing unmasculine about that."


Daryl

_________________________
Broad statements often miss their true mark.

Top
#345749 - 11/19/10 10:04 AM Re: ...treating ASA versus CSA? may trigger [Re: prisonerID]
SamV Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 12/13/09
Posts: 5940
Loc: Talladega, Alabama, USA
That booklet contains so much, I have just begun to scratch the surface.
Mark, thank you for this reference.

I hope that those brothers that may have had an unwanted sexual experience, whether verbal or emotional, a grope, assault, battery or rape as adults read this, and understand the terminology, and the help that is available.

Daryl, to your brother, who through you, is coming to understand recovery and open up to it, peace and self care, my brother, as you see the way through silence and shame to rebuilding you.
I too fear for the safety and wellbeing of my almost grown children, and my beautiful wife, and me, equally me.

Asking another to post for you, in you stead, is healthy and progressive. I, as Daryl, will certainly take your thoughts and experience to the boards anonymously. Please, just let us know how we can be your "voice", temporarily, until you can recover your own. It is our privilege and honor to reach out.

Yes, Daryl, behave. wink

Sam

_________________________
MaleSurvivor Moderator Emeritus 2012 - 2014

Top
#345755 - 11/19/10 11:05 AM Re: ...treating ASA versus CSA? may trigger [Re: prisonerID]
CruxFidelis Offline


Registered: 06/16/10
Posts: 486
Loc: NJ
Originally Posted By: prisonerID

I spoke with another man who is ASA here and he related a deep fear for himself. He asked that I write it here in his place. He talked of how he wrestles with leftover shadows from his assault. He related how his, in his eyes, lack of ability to prevent the assault and protect himself haunts him as a father and husband. That sense of failure still haunts him in the thoughts of being the man his family needs especially in an emergency or dangerous situation. He thought it may be his own unique issue but I would say there are other men here who have wives or partners and children.

I will not argue with him since this is his posting. I will only repeat something: "Remind yourself that you did what seemed best at the time to survive - there's nothing unmasculine about that."

Daryl


This is something that haunts me at of the time, too. Maybe it's true that I kick ass at Street Fighter and I defeated all the bosses on Super Mario Brothers, but as far as actually being able to defend myself in any useful way, i am physically vulnerable. I might be able to rescue the virtual princess, but in real life if anything happened to my wife, I wouldn't be the one to save the day. I never used to be paranoid about being the victim of another crime, but I obsessively check the Megan's Law sex offender database and my local police blotter. Someone stole my sister's bike in my backyard, and another time someone stole my lawnmower (WTF?) and broke into our car. These things are stupid and annoying aspects of living in a middle class neighborhood that is very close to a very, very poor crime-ridden neighborhood, but they always make me worry that I'm being targeted. I know it doesn't make sense, they were probably just teenage boys causing trouble in the middle of the night.

Earlybird's words about feeling like he is the adult that failed to protect also resonated with me. I tried with all the strength inside me to fight off my attacker but there just wasn't enough. Children are not of age to make informed consent, and they are often physically and emotionally more vulnerable to coercion and force. But never in a million years did I ever think that as a 28 year old married man, I would be raped.

_________________________
ďIf a man wishes to be sure of the road he treads on, he must close his eyes and walk in the dark.Ē

- Saint John of the Cross

Top
#345839 - 11/20/10 09:20 AM Re: ...treating ASA versus CSA? may trigger [Re: CruxFidelis]
prisonerID Offline
Greeter Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/17/08
Posts: 1247
Loc: Oklahoma
I truly believe that this is a common marker among all of us. I have run scenario after scenario in my mind thousands of times. What I could or should have done differently. I run these scenarios at the car wash. When I was walked up the stairs to my apartment. When later I was walked down them back to my car after a night of all that happened. When we were at the bank ATM withdrawing my money. What could I have done to have gotten away?

I failed that night as a man to protect my belongings, my car and my money. And I could not stop them from what they did to me. That left me with self doubt about my manhood and my abilities in my life. How could I protect anyone else?

This is what our assaults left us with. And what we have to keep trying to work through.




Daryl

_________________________
Broad statements often miss their true mark.

Top
#346521 - 11/29/10 10:48 AM Re: ...treating ASA versus CSA? may trigger [Re: prisonerID]
SamV Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 12/13/09
Posts: 5940
Loc: Talladega, Alabama, USA
Too often I find the "why's" overwhelming the "now's" and the positive things I can do to "be".

Please, do not be hard on yourselves, this is abuse, an attack. These are pirates, highway men, thieves thugs and perpetrators. They waited for an opportunity, and it presented itself.

"Time and unforeseen occurrences befall us all". We have been stolen from and wounded. Let us recover at our pace, never letting anyone to dictate our progress, but let us progress.

What is an objective that has been helpful in this perception of adult failure? How have some of the intense emotions be alleviated?

Thank you for sharing,
Sam

_________________________
MaleSurvivor Moderator Emeritus 2012 - 2014

Top
#349114 - 12/26/10 10:38 PM Re: ...treating ASA versus CSA? may trigger [Re: SamV]
Guss Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 12/17/10
Posts: 26
Loc: tx usa
I too felt I could not defend a family because I couldn't defend myself. Since that time, I have fought off a mugger. I took back some of my power over my own body. Yet, at times I still feel defenseless.
I had to learn that the part of the brain that controls erections is near the brain stem. Erections happen automatically whether you want them to or not. That is why they happen when you are asleep. If you had an erection during the assault, it was just your body responding. It wasn't you wanting it.
Movies, and tv shows tell us we that if we are "Real Men", we'll always be able to defend ourselves, and our families. Those shows are not real. There are situations where you are not able to defend yourself. I don't see how any unarmed man could defend himself against two dangerously armed attackers.



Edited by Guss (12/28/10 11:14 PM)
Edit Reason: additions
_________________________
moooooo

Top
Page 2 of 3 < 1 2 3 >


Moderator:  ModTeam, peroperic2009 

I agree that my access and use of the MaleSurvivor discussion forums and chat room is subject to the terms of this Agreement. AND the sole discretion of MaleSurvivor.
I agree that my use of MaleSurvivor resources are AT-WILL, and that my posting privileges may be terminated at any time, and for any reason by MaleSurvivor.