Newest Members
lilac, The Wife Of, smusab, whiteflag, North101
12287 Registered Users
Today's Birthdays
cards (33), korbin2003 (39), Rosemary (53), Zebra (47)
Who's Online
1 registered (1 invisible), 25 Guests and 8 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Forum Stats
12287 Members
73 Forums
63212 Topics
442012 Posts

Max Online: 418 @ 07/02/12 07:29 AM
Twitter
Page 1 of 2 1 2 >
Topic Options
#344904 - 11/12/10 08:03 AM X-Ray Scanners, Groping At Airports - Triggers
FormerTexan Offline
Site Administrator
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 09/12/04
Posts: 11027
Loc: Denver, CO
I've been reading a lot about these scanners the last couple weeks. People reluctantly use these virtual strip seach machines to get on with their flight. Various websites are abuzz about how these machines can show great details of anatomy, including whether one is circumcised.

Two pilots unions are balking at the machines, stating they should not have to be subjected to being irradiated and ogled every day just to report for work. I for one don't blame them. For those who opt out of the scanner, they are subjected to a thorough touching-and-groping session amounting to sexual assault - a major complaint by pilots and patrons alike. One pilot felt so molested by the TSA, that he vomited in his driveway before heading to work at the very thought of being molested again by the TSA.

I already don't fly because I'd just rather drive. This severe invasion of privacy and sexual abuse is another reason for me to enjoy the countryside on my trips.

One of many articles on this can be read here.

_________________________
List of things ain't nobody got time for:

1. That


If I could meet myself as a boy...

Top
#344908 - 11/12/10 08:52 AM Re: X-Ray Scanners, Groping At Airports - Triggers [Re: FormerTexan]
EGL Offline
Moderator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 06/19/04
Posts: 7821
My wife and I flew to Houston last Friday for the weekend, and on the return flight at the Houston airport I went through one of those. I didn't realize that I was in "that line" until I got right up to it. The other line simply went through the regular metal detector. Flustered by the moment of realization, I went on through it. Afterward, I did feel kind of violated. As I told my wife, "I don't mind showing you my parts, but I don't want anyone else looking at them." All another part of the experience of flying that I have come to loathe.

_________________________
Eddie

Top
#344926 - 11/12/10 12:36 PM Re: X-Ray Scanners, Groping At Airports - Triggers [Re: EGL]
FormerTexan Offline
Site Administrator
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 09/12/04
Posts: 11027
Loc: Denver, CO

Trigger warnings on this one as well. Here is another article on the subject.





_________________________
List of things ain't nobody got time for:

1. That


If I could meet myself as a boy...

Top
#344928 - 11/12/10 01:25 PM Re: X-Ray Scanners, Groping At Airports - Triggers [Re: FormerTexan]
westchesterguy Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/13/09
Posts: 421
Loc: Westchester County NY
this is one of those subjects that annoys the hell out of me for a number of reasons. primarily you are (repeat are) presumed to be a terrorist before boarding a plane. which, in my very humble view, translates into that old judge on the bench in 1979 saying: "you prove to us just how you could have been raped...." ring a bell with anyone else?

secondly, my own investigation has already revealed the 'fetish' stories and secret photos from TSA workers that now populating sites that i don't need to mention here. particularly shoes/feet/socks.

i give up on this issue, because i find it so absurd and yet totally reflective of our culture in fear today. my only solution has been, i refuse to fly in winter months and when weather is warm and i have to to travel for work, i really do only show up in flipflops, shorts, tshirt, and a change of clothes in a carry on. and it takes every bit of energy inside of me not to pop-off on them. (of course i know just one word from my snarky mouth will land me in airport jail and i lose again.)

_________________________
Jeff

Top
#344940 - 11/12/10 04:09 PM Re: X-Ray Scanners, Groping At Airports - Triggers [Re: westchesterguy]
melliferal Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/03/05
Posts: 1159
Think of this as God's way of saying "America, it's time to rediscover the passenger train."

_________________________
Children cannot consent; they can only comply.

Oprah's resources for male survivors

Top
#344956 - 11/12/10 05:42 PM Re: X-Ray Scanners, Groping At Airports - Triggers [Re: melliferal]
FormerTexan Offline
Site Administrator
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 09/12/04
Posts: 11027
Loc: Denver, CO
I'll stick with my road atlas. wink

_________________________
List of things ain't nobody got time for:

1. That


If I could meet myself as a boy...

Top
#344960 - 11/12/10 05:51 PM Re: X-Ray Scanners, Groping At Airports - Triggers [Re: FormerTexan]
sono Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 07/19/09
Posts: 1069
Originally Posted By: melliferal
Think of this as God's way of saying "America, it's time to rediscover the passenger train."


If that is the case, God had better let his pals the Republicans know about it.

kevin

_________________________
the family
the perp

Top
#345067 - 11/13/10 09:55 AM Re: X-Ray Scanners, Groping At Airports - Triggers [Re: sono]
FormerTexan Offline
Site Administrator
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 09/12/04
Posts: 11027
Loc: Denver, CO
I'm confident this is a bipartisan effort.

_________________________
List of things ain't nobody got time for:

1. That


If I could meet myself as a boy...

Top
#345121 - 11/13/10 06:18 PM Re: X-Ray Scanners, Groping At Airports - Triggers [Re: FormerTexan]
sono Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 07/19/09
Posts: 1069
I don't get that impression Andy. It always seems quite clear that it is republicans who wish to block and deride discussions of such "public works" projects. Obama's LA to Vegas proposal for one. I've been at parties where a republican will say, " well if the Dems have their way, we'll all be riding trains'". Anecdotal for sure, but not uncommon.

K

_________________________
the family
the perp

Top
#345166 - 11/14/10 12:21 PM Re: X-Ray Scanners, Groping At Airports - Triggers [Re: sono]
kidneythis Offline


Registered: 11/08/09
Posts: 1558
I haven't flown since I think it was 1998 so I'm not familiar with the post September 11th 2001 security practices. I have been searched. In my own home town some fat ol white lady decided I wasn't white enough and just opened my bag and started to just toss stuff out of it. I imagine she imagined maybe I had drugs or something.
Anyway it did not feel good and I objected and was almost set upon by a half dozen guys it turns out all of them had been watching me.
That said so you know I understand at some level what its like to be treated as suspect when there is no apparent reason because in the end it is a necessary evil.

That being true for my argument (I believe it) I look at the scanners and pat downs as something that we need to do. Why mention this? Well during my life before I knew and understood the source of these insecurities in me I has serious triggering events on a regular basis as mentioned here with the pat downs.
One of the ways I dealt with it, to the point that I could often supress it entirely by the time I was 32 or so was to rationally break it down.
Fact one most people go through it (it=whatever the trigger was) w/o any apparent bad reaction so it must not be something intrinsically bad. Fact two I should be able to do this as well (remember I'm facing the world thinking these were my character defects and nothing else) so I work at making myself OK with doing what all the other normal people do. Or at least the people I want to be like do.
And that is the way I dealt with this sort of triggering. From my perspective those of you who know its from the abuse have an edge with this method, any flare ups and the problem itself have a source you can point to. I guess its a form of self taught compartmentalisation ( I had no idea this was a normal thing that all people did) so I could seem normal. A lot of my post sexual abuse abuse was to make me seem weird and abnormal.

Long winded as usual but I hope it helps until you all find a better way.

_________________________
As Mark Twain once quipped, history may not repeat itself, but it does rhyme.

Top
#345593 - 11/17/10 08:50 PM Re: X-Ray Scanners, Groping At Airports - Triggers [Re: kidneythis]
Ken Singer, LCSW Offline
Moderator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/24/00
Posts: 5778
Loc: Lambertville, NJ USA
Interesting article in Newsweek about this topic:

Quote:
For Survivors of Sexual Assault, New TSA Screenings Represent a Threat
Could the new pat-downs and body scans again traumatize men and women recovering from an attack?

Passengers have found a variety of reasons to object to the Transportation Safety Administration’s new screening policies, a combination of advanced-imaging technology scans and pat-down searches, which went into effect Oct. 29. Some see the full-body scans as a radiation risk. Some say the measures violate civil liberties, And for some, like John Tyner, a San Diego software engineer, the new screening measures represented something more immediately terrifying: the specter of sexual menace. Tyner is being investigated for an $11,000 fine after he walked away from a screening he considered “sexual assault.”

The TSA, on the other hand, argues that these screenings are not only safe, they’re necessary. In an era of plastics-based explosives, metal detectors aren’t sufficient, says Nick Kimball, a spokesperson for the TSA, and the new body scanners are the best available option. The body scan creates a digital snapshot of passengers underneath their clothing, allowing screeners to see any hidden contraband. Passengers who decline the scan are subject to a pat-down to achieve that same goal. It’s a pat-down that many travelers say may be more thorough, but is also more invasive and humiliating than previous security frisks. “It was a horrifying experience. I was touched in my private parts, in my genital area, without consent and without warning,” says Erin Chase, an Ohio woman who flies several times a month. (TSA says that all airline officials should tell passengers what’s going to happen prior to a pat-down.)

For women and men who have already been sexually assaulted, the new screening rules—or just the threat of these rules—present a very real danger. They can be triggering events, setting off a posttraumatic-stress reaction. “I started crying. It was so intimate, so horrible. I feel like I was being raped,” an anonymous rape survivor recounted on a Minnesota blog. Melissa Gibbs, a spokeswoman for We Won’t Fly, a group protesting the new regulations, says that a rape survivor she spoke to had a panic attack as an agent began touching her leg.

“After a sexual assault, it seems that many survivors have difficulty having their bodies touched by other people,” says Shannon Lambert, founder of the Pandora Project, a nonprofit organization that provides support and information to survivors of rape and sexual abuse. This fear of contact even extends to partners and, often, medical professionals. “A lot of survivors do not want to be in positions where they’re vulnerable. They put up defenses so that they can be in control of their body. In cases like this, it seems like some of that control is going away.”

If that sense of control is violated, it can lead to more than hurt feelings. There’s a physical reaction associated with a triggering incident, and the response can vary from person to person. “It could lead to a person shutting down and becoming noncommunicative, it could result in a person becoming emotionally upset, it could trigger flashbacks, not just the thoughts and feelings they experienced, but perhaps other sensory experiences,” says Jennifer Marsh, director of the National Sexual Assault Hotline for the Rape Abuse & Incest National Network (RAINN).

Defenders of the pat-downs argue that they’re not all that different from what was used before (though frequent fliers such as Chase would disagree). How and when they’re executed has also changed. Previously, pat-downs were reserved for those who failed a metal detector or who were randomly selected for a search. But now, a pat-down is used both when passengers opt out of the scan and when scanner technicians can’t capture a good image. With 385 scanners in use in 68 airports, some abuse survivors worry that the chance of incurring a pat-down has now increased. And that threat of being retraumatized is enough to keep some of those people from flying. “There’s no way that I would go through that as a survivor,” says blogger Melissa McEwan. Her posts on the invasive pat-downs have generated numerous comments from other survivors who have either experienced panic attacks as a result of the new screening process or are avoiding flying so that adverse reactions won’t be triggered. Gibbs, herself a survivor, is planning a national boycott of the airline industry, along with We Won’t Fly, on Nov. 23.

The pat-down itself is not the only thing that could cause a reaction, say counselors who work with people who have experienced sexual assault. “We’ve had a number of survivors who have had their pictures taken and put online,” as part of a sexual assault, says Lambert. “So for them, even though [the TSA photo is] deleted, even if the person is in the other room, the idea that the photo’s being taken can be difficult to handle.” Lambert also notes that for adults who were assaulted as children, watching their children go through either invasive photographs or excessive pat-downs can be traumatic as well. (Kimball says that the machines automatically delete photos before moving on to the next passenger, and that the screeners, who work in a separate room, never see the passenger, while the agents working with the passenger never see the pictures.)

Both Lambert and Marsh says that through better communication and training with TSA agents, as well as relaxation exercises and therapy survivors’ reactions to the pat-downs can be mitigated. Still, the pressure of airport travel can make the trauma of the search even worse. “This kind of situation has the potential to be really psychologically retraumatizing. Everything’s happening so fast, there’s a lot of pressure, a lot of people expecting you to, don’t take too long, don’t demand special privileges, don’t ask questions. You have to catch your plane,” says therapist Wendy Maltz, author of The Sexual Healing Journey: A Guide for Survivors of Sexual Abuse. “You don’t have the opportunity to employ techniques that could enhance a sense of calm.”

Passengers have the right to have an agent of the same gender perform the pat-down, but McEwan notes that any kind of unwanted touching can trigger an event. Moreover, men who are sexually assaulted are often the victims of other men—“but saying, ‘Hey, I want a woman to do this’ could lead to a whole other set of problems,” Maltz says. Survivors and women’s advocates also worry about the potential for bad actors, poor communication (as in Chase’s case), and abuse of power will make an already bad procedure worse.


While the ACLU and some politicians are working to challenge the new policy, the TSA maintains that fears and speculation surrounding these changes are much worse than the reality.

“Our officers are trained to work with individual travelers with families to ensure a respectful screening process for everyone while providing the best possible security for all travelers,” says Kimball, who notes that the procedures were determined by considering the overall safety of the passenger, and based on the best intelligence.

That’s cold comfort for many men and women, who, thanks to the new security regulations, are feeling much less safe than before.




Top
#345950 - 11/21/10 06:07 PM Re: X-Ray Scanners, Groping At Airports - Triggers [Re: Ken Singer, LCSW]
melliferal Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/03/05
Posts: 1159
Any particular reason they can't simply keep the traditional metal detectors and add explosive-detection dogs to catch all the explodey-underwear? Then the only people that get groped are the ones the dogs smell explosives on.

ETA: Never mind; forgot about stuff like plastic knives, zip guns, and pepper spray which those things wouldn't catch. Shoot.



Edited by melliferal (11/21/10 06:09 PM)
_________________________
Children cannot consent; they can only comply.

Oprah's resources for male survivors

Top
Page 1 of 2 1 2 >


Moderator:  Chase Eric, ModTeam 

I agree that my access and use of the MaleSurvivor discussion forums and chat room is subject to the terms of this Agreement. AND the sole discretion of MaleSurvivor.
I agree that my use of MaleSurvivor resources are AT-WILL, and that my posting privileges may be terminated at any time, and for any reason by MaleSurvivor.