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#340074 - 09/12/10 12:22 AM An Argument for Hate
earlybird Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/17/10
Posts: 1007
Loc: WA USA


Their anger and disgust was felt the night of the rape. I also was infected with a virus. Not an STD, in many ways much worse - the capacity to hate. Not right away for I was too broken to imagine having any feelings. Hate would have to wait. So it lay dormant, not festering, no roots sprouting. Just a silent symbiotic creature that one day I would release in an effort to survive.

It would have made sense for me to focus this hate on the two men who used me in such a horrific manner but that is not what happened. I, at the time, had a belief system that did not allow for any form of hate. (Hate equaled Evil) There was never a legitimate reason to feel hate so I had no choice or appropriate way to express this new understanding. What was left but to forced myself to shove it deep under my skin nearly to the core of my existence.

The problem was, I was impregnated with hate and it did eventually find an avenue to express itself Ė me. I turned this detestation on myself.

There are many who believe there is no place for hate. But Iíve come to understand it is an emotion every bit as important as love. Yes I know if hate is left unchecked or allowed to go into a rage it can have devastating effects. Love itself, if left unchecked and allowed to burn uncontrolled has equally devastating effects. When one thwarts there capacity to love they become less than fully human. I now believe the same can be said of hate. We need to accept its rightful place in us rather than to deny it. The emotion of hate will not remain silent it will be heard. Either I can recognize its legitimacy and use it proportionately and appropriately or I can close my eyes and hope and pray it goes away.

Does this mean Iíve spent a lifetime growing and nurturing this hate? No. Not because it is wrong to hate only that once its purpose is served it is time to allow it to move into its rightful place. Not to evaporate nor deny its existence but for it to live in quiet peace until needed.

I do not believe in revenge. Iím not calling for a holy war against pedophiles and rapists. There are systems in place to deal with these men and women and I place trust in them. The men who raped me did not allow themselves to deal with their hate in a legitimate way. They turned it on me and Iím sure others as well. But my argument is I did that same thing only I turned it on myself. But it was the anger being denied that set me up for rage to take control and become out of control.

_________________________
Balanced (My goal)

There is symmetry
In self-reflection
Life exemplified
Grace personified

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#340084 - 09/12/10 03:46 AM Re: An Argument for Hate [Re: earlybird]
sono Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 07/19/09
Posts: 1069
Earl,

I really agree with you on this and want to add to what you say here my own version of how hate fits into my recovery.

Learning how to hate him, speak ill of him and so on has been a significant element in the recovery process because anything smacking of a disagreement, rebuke or rebuff were simply not part of the programming he instilled in me. I couldn't allow myself to truly think ill of him till sometime during the last year...which makes that about 25 years after seeing him for the last time. I couldn't get further than maybe a vague idea that no, he probably shouldn't have been doing that with a kid, but it was my fault really because...blah, blah, blah...my fault...blah, blah, blah...I'm to blame not him...blah, blah, blah...you all know the routine of pre-recovery self deception/protection. All of that rage and anger which belongs to him, placed on him, directed at him I turned inward as well.

So anyway, reaching the point where I can permit myself to have unadulterated anger at this piece of shit excuse for a human being has been nirvana!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Oh my god, to be able to be angry at HIM and not myself??? to be able to take all of that self hatred, (well maybe not all...lol) and put it in it's rightful spot??? spectacular, life changing!

Yes, I agree, anger, like anything if it's a one note song of your life, is not a good thing. But neither is the person who is so eternally sweet that they don't even seem like a real person, it's just not as objectionable in polite society. Anger, rage, hate all the rest I don't think are to be banished from our vocabulary but put into their correct spot and integrated into our whole being. Once again, that right spot is the abusers not ourselves.

On a completely unrelated topic, but it feels like it has certain similarities in terms of how it is viewed, is the question of forgiving the abuser. There are certainly some who would say anger is a bad emotion to have...they might even be some of the same ones who would say one must forgive one's abuser...that is also not an idea I can get behind. Of course one can choose to forgive and if that's a genuine need for some people, then great, but I get greatly disturbed when I see survivors tell other survivors they MUST forgive the abuser in order to set themselves free. I don't see it like this. I think it's perfectly OK to have some person out there who has done you an unthinkable wrong that you hate and are in no way going to forgive. Directing it at the correct person though is key of course. But these negative emotions are part of the human experience and to deny them is to deny ourselves an important end of the emotional spectrum.

Thanks for this Earl.


Kevin

_________________________
the family
the perp

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#340087 - 09/12/10 09:21 AM Re: An Argument for Hate [Re: sono]
prisonerID Offline
Greeter Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/17/08
Posts: 1247
Loc: Oklahoma
eb,

There is, in my opinion, a place for every emotion in our lives. Even the ones that are considered the less desirable among them. It is generally acceptable to say that we feel love, joy, excitement and other positive feelings. Often it is harder to say the other side of the coin due to our own desire to be seen in a certain light or the judgment given by others.

But the other emotions do have a place in our lives. In general I ahve never been a jealous person but I can get that way on occasion. And lack of fear has gotten me into some really precarious situations since my assault so I need a dose of that. And while hatred has been way too strong in my life it has helped me to set some stronger boundaries. Anger? I need to work on it more and get it more level but without it? I will allow others to walk all over me and take advantage of me more. And so on.

Admitting that I feel these things might get the looks that my EQ is low. That may be. smile It is when these emotions consume us that they become hindrances. But I think they can drive, motivate and stir us to down the road.

When students come to us some are arriving from places I cannot imagine. Homes without form or function. Some coming from shelters. Others coming from juvenile services, DHS or ICW. Not all, for some come from good loving families and just need more in life or a second chance after messing up their lives. We get many who were abused in some form or several.

Some of these come in with a variety of harsh emotions. It takes time to find out why they are the way they are. But it takes time. And we seek to honor their distrust, anger and whatever emotions they display. For those emotions may have been the survival tools they needed to stay alive. it is not right to immediately ask them to lay down the armor and weapons that sustained them. We seek to temper it and help them to take on new tools as we work on some of the ones they have had for years.

eb, thank you for posting and validating an emotion that has its place in the lives of man. A place - just not the whole place in our lives.

Kevin, I am glad that you have been able to place that on him and away from you.

I would rather someone asked me why I felt a certain way than that I did not have the right to feel that way.


Daryl

_________________________
Broad statements often miss their true mark.

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#340091 - 09/12/10 10:13 AM Re: An Argument for Hate [Re: prisonerID]
petercorbett Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 07/27/08
Posts: 2433
Loc: TEXAS
Hi, my brothers, MAY BE TRIGGERING.

An arguement for hate.

My take on this, I , hated my "mom." From 8 yrs old on I had always wished she was dead.
I hate her right up to this writing, as she had made me hate myself as a young boy.
I hated myself for being the wrong one who had lived at birth. I hated myself for being that useless, worthless & unloveable boy. I hated myself for trying to love her.

But, i have never hated Ralph, in fact this boy/man loved him,for 55+ years, because he loved me. He told me so.
I never hated those strangers because i thought they loved me too.

Pretty screwed up thinking for sure. But, I am dealing with all this, and have been for 2 years. I am relearning the word hate.

Love & hate. How could i ever have gotten get those 2 words mixed up?

Heal well, my brothers, heal well.

"I will take that lost boys hand, and i will lead him from the depths of darkness, into the sunshine, forever into eternity." As He is ME.

Pete..Irishmoose.



Edited by petercorbett (09/12/10 10:37 AM)
_________________________
Working Boys' Home 10-14 yrs old, grades 5-8. 1949-1953
____________________________________________________________
A very humble alumni of the WOR Dahlonega, GA.
May 15-17 2009, Alta, Sep. 2009. Sequoia, 2010.
Hope Springs, 2010.


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#340112 - 09/12/10 02:27 PM Re: An Argument for Hate [Re: petercorbett]
SamV Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 12/13/09
Posts: 5940
Loc: Talladega, Alabama, USA
Earl! Right on, my friend,

I echo Kevin in kudos for this post.

I was incapable of hatred, believing the good in all, all were victims, and therefore all needed to come to the decision by themselves to behave responsibly or take another's innocence.

That changed this year in recovery. There are those who may have be victimized, but ultimately, the more I understand about the disorder I have, initiators could have as we here restrained the urge, to perpetrate. Those who chose to perp deserve the full extent of hatred and justice, and some, beyond.

I hated my perpetrator, I hated the perpetrators of others I spoke to in MS, in group and everywhere I have heard of initiators acting out.

I hated my perp for about 3 days. During those days, I understood the relief and shame busting I needed to exorcise the weight from my shoulders.

Very cathartic, hatred, a necessary part of recovery.

Thank you Eeb's, and the replies to this post, wonderful.

Sam

_________________________
MaleSurvivor Moderator Emeritus 2012 - 2014

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#340471 - 09/19/10 01:14 PM Re: An Argument for Hate [Re: SamV]
duncanUK Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 12/24/06
Posts: 632
I hate myself....

_________________________
you dont see me. i am not really here. Its my fault.. all of it. I am to blame and no one else.

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#340472 - 09/19/10 01:39 PM Re: An Argument for Hate [Re: duncanUK]
earlybird Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/17/10
Posts: 1007
Loc: WA USA
duncanUK,

What you wrote I can understand. It is exactly why I wrote this post. I felt this inward pointed hate because I was unable to direct the hate where it belonged. Once I allowed myself to refocus this hate I could allow myself to be cared for as a victim not punished as a perp. Then the hate even for those it was directed has been allowed to find its proper balance.

duncanUK ,I as well as many others here, support you and the pain you feel. Thank you for sharing this with us.

_________________________
Balanced (My goal)

There is symmetry
In self-reflection
Life exemplified
Grace personified

Top
#340518 - 09/20/10 11:18 AM Re: An Argument for Hate [Re: duncanUK]
petercorbett Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 07/27/08
Posts: 2433
Loc: TEXAS
Hi, my fraternal brother, across the pond.

I hate myself.

You don't see me. I can see you, i see you in me, in earlybird,
and (look to your left) 8020 then boys), now men. Struggling to find our place in this world, as we are severely emotionally damaged.
We, you & i spend a great deal of our time trying to make sense of what happened to us. What happened to that little scared boy? Why is it that now i am a "man" and i am still that scared little boy? Who, am I? What am I? What happened to our innocence? And for those who believe in a God. What happened to this" precious gift form God," to our parent(s)?

Yes i can see you, you are just like me and others here.
You are a worthwhile human being, you are a person whom has survived some horrible things that no boy/man should ever have to endure.

It's our fault. That's the one thing that's the most difficult to overcome. I/we spend thousands of dollars (pounds) on therapy. If prescribed we spend thousands of dollars (pounds), on medications.
For me, my brother it was that I loved my perpetrator. Yes, that boy loved all his attention. He gave me love, he was interested in this little boy. But, right up to this minute i enjoyed those forbidden pleasures. They are on my mind constantly. For those forbidden pleasures have defined just who & what i am. I have spent 55+ years thinking that he loved me, and i loved him.
No, my brother, it wasn't our fault at all. It was not our fault because we were looking for someone to love us. It was not our fault that another family member took advantage of us. It was not our fault that friends & strangers took advantage of us.
No, it was not my fault that i enjoyed those forbidden pleasures. I could go as far as saying that my alcoholism was not my fault. Just like those of my brothers of mine whom used drugs. We all had our different ways of trying to escape from our very selves.
Some of them took their own life, because the pain became overwhelming.
NO MY BROTHER, IT WAS NOT YOUR/MY FAULT.

I wonder at times about myself, i try and understand, just how could those forbidden pleasures that i received as a boy. Have been so wrong?
After all HE LOVED ME...HE TOLD ME SO.

No, my brother, you & I can look in the mirror and see someone who is full of love to share.
Who is a worthwhile & useful human being.
A person, full of compassion, understanding & love.

Nah, my brother, we hate what happened to us & we should hate the individuals whom had done these things to us.

Inside of you there is a frightened little boy, who now needs your love & understanding. He got you this far in life. Now he is depending on you to take him the rest of the way, in a life of fulfillment & love.

Not hating ourselves. Yes, it's easier said than done.

Yes, i can see you my brother, i just look at myself in the mirror & let my imagination take over. I can see you as we all are the same. Human beings, trying to deal with inhuman things done to us.

Heal well, my British brother,duncanUK, heal well.

I hope this makes some sense to you.

'Iwill take that lost boys hand, and i will lead him from the depths of darkness, into the sunshine, forever into eternity." As HE is ME.

Pete..Irishmoose,

_________________________
Working Boys' Home 10-14 yrs old, grades 5-8. 1949-1953
____________________________________________________________
A very humble alumni of the WOR Dahlonega, GA.
May 15-17 2009, Alta, Sep. 2009. Sequoia, 2010.
Hope Springs, 2010.


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#340533 - 09/20/10 05:16 PM Re: An Argument for Hate [Re: petercorbett]
AndyJB2005 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/14/06
Posts: 1242
Loc: Saint Paul, Minnesota
As long as the hatred doesn't become like a drug and consumes you - all you know and all you care about - then I think anger is okay. I felt about 13 years of anger at my dad, it consumed me, and, in honest hindsight, it caused a lot more harm to my feelings, self-esteem and attitude and in turn my life choices than good by "liberating" or living in it. I'd of been a lot more successful had I spent that energy instead on productive things like my school work or friends-making than just sitting there brooding over stuff I can't change anyway. It helps me to remember that yeah, my dad fucked me over big time, but does he deserve the next 10 years of my life while I sit here being angry with him, too? Hell no! I guess for me I have to even acknowledge someone to feel anger and honestly I've just written him off and he's gone, so I feel nothing except "pity" that he's now this pathetic man. All in all, anger is okay untill it starts to define you and your life. I've seen that a lot too actually though.

_________________________
Life's disappointments are harder to take when you don't know any swear words. -- Calvin (Calvin and Hobbes)

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