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#339227 - 08/30/10 07:51 AM Fear
earlybird Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/17/10
Posts: 1007
Loc: WA USA
Can we talk a little about fear? The night of my rape the one thing that was the most present was fear. Fear of dying. It wasn’t the rape or pain there was no anger. I was overwhelmed with fear.

I’m not a fearful person. I wasn’t before and not really lived a life of fear after. But I’ve carried that Kernel of terror all my adult life. How does one rid themselves of it?

_________________________
Balanced (My goal)

There is symmetry
In self-reflection
Life exemplified
Grace personified

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#339235 - 08/30/10 10:19 AM Re: Fear [Re: earlybird]
Ever-fixed Mark Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 01/02/10
Posts: 729
Loc: United States
Fear is something I've been dealing with closely for a little while. Is the fear you carry now still a fear of dying? Are their other things that the fear might be tied to? I just had a couple of weeks of PTSD level fear and terror that something awful was going to happen to me. The urge to hide myself away and shut down was overwhelming.

It might help you understand your fear if you try to make it more specific to you (then and now) with more detail. Here are some more specific fears that are familiar to me:

- Fear that something terrible is going to happen that I can't anticipate and can't do anything about.
- Fear of being found out (as a fraud and inauthentic).
- Fear of failing.
- Fear of trying in case I fail.
- Fear that what happened to me somehow predetermines what's possible in my life.
- Fear of never getting any better than I am now.
- Fear that everything I've worked for in my life will be ripped away from me at any moment.
- Fear of something happening that I didn't choose but which is somehow inexplicably my fault.
- Fear that sex means having something stolen or broken in the experience.
- Fear that the pleasure in sex will distract me into letting some part of me be stolen or injured.
- Fear that sex means being wounded and scarred.
- Fear that sex and desire are completely inaccessible to me.
- Fear that even if sex and desire was available to me, it would cost me something unknown that I probably wouldn't want to risk.
- Fear that opening to sex will result in a painful injury to my body as some kind of existential punishment.

This list tells me a story that is understandable considering my history. As I wrote them this morning over my tea, I tried to make them as specific to me and as true as I could. I really learned something writing this list.

Earlybird, what do you think your detailed list of fears would look like (then and now) and what do you think it would show you about your experience and the impact it's had on you?

-efm

_________________________

Everybody here's got a story to tell
Everybody's been through their own hell
There's nothing too special about getting hurt
Getting over it, that takes the work

- "Duck and Cover" by Glen Phillips

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#339244 - 08/30/10 01:00 PM Re: Fear [Re: Ever-fixed Mark]
Dogs&Gods Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 03/22/10
Posts: 49
Loc: The Mighty Mitten
My biggest anxiety is that I will be stripped of everything that I have.

Trying my best to not let this consume me but very difficult to not believe in my head that all will end and end badly...

_________________________
Remember Dog is God spelled backwards: The dogs in my life were the first ones to hear my pain and lick away my tears.

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#339246 - 08/30/10 01:26 PM Re: Fear [Re: Dogs&Gods]
earlybird Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/17/10
Posts: 1007
Loc: WA USA
Brian,

My original fear was that of being killed. At that moment I couldn’t see how it was going to end any other way. That was the only fear or feelings that I had or at least can recall.

Then within days, weeks and even years other fears developed

Fear of telling anyone
Fear of being found out
Fear of rejection by my peers
Fear of not ever being sexually desired
Fear of self death
Fear of hate
Fear of self-hate
Fear of growing anger/rage
Fear of groups


All these fears except one has been pretty much resolved. Fear of rejection is the hold out. That is a fracture in the main structure that refuses to be repairable. I see it. I recognize it. I work at patching it. Nothing puts a dent in its healing.

_________________________
Balanced (My goal)

There is symmetry
In self-reflection
Life exemplified
Grace personified

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#339248 - 08/30/10 01:39 PM Re: Fear [Re: earlybird]
CruxFidelis Offline


Registered: 06/16/10
Posts: 486
Loc: NJ
I'd say fear was the predominant emotion I felt when I was being abused. Not knowing when it was ever going to end, not knowing if I'd survive or if he'd off me. As adults, we're pretty used to having autonomy in our lives... we drive to work, we hang out with the people we want to hang out with, we make choices that influence our future. I wasn't able to do a whole lot of independent stuff before my abuse, but I'd had that in my life before. But then in the abuse there was that total loss of control, feeling like someone had completely overtaken your body.

It's interesting how you refer to the fear surrounding your experience as a "kernel of terror." do you think this fear maybe transfers itself into other emotions that do affect your life right now?

I wish I had something to say to your last question.

_________________________
“If a man wishes to be sure of the road he treads on, he must close his eyes and walk in the dark.”

- Saint John of the Cross

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#339254 - 08/30/10 03:31 PM Re: Fear [Re: CruxFidelis]
Ever-fixed Mark Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 01/02/10
Posts: 729
Loc: United States
This is where the experience of those who remember the incident clearly, and those who have to deal with the "black hole" in their memory diverge. For me, it's the unknown that is the most terrible. I don't remember feeling my life was in danger, just confused and a kind of... suppressed feeling. Most associations occurred after and I connected them with effort.

For those adults remember their experience and don't have the view of a child I can see that you'd think being killed was a possible outcome. I'm curious if there was any ever guilt or anger about having survived...

Fear of being rejected is such a common human experience, however it is certainly intensified for us. Are there specific time or places where you feel most vulnerable to being rejected?

-efm

_________________________

Everybody here's got a story to tell
Everybody's been through their own hell
There's nothing too special about getting hurt
Getting over it, that takes the work

- "Duck and Cover" by Glen Phillips

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#339256 - 08/30/10 04:02 PM Re: Fear [Re: Ever-fixed Mark]
earlybird Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/17/10
Posts: 1007
Loc: WA USA
Thank you Brian for this conversation. No I don't think I can say I've felt guilt or anger over surviving. I can understand why someone might, it just wasn't where my head went. There was plenty of anger and guilt. Some still exists. I have a much better attitude and more hope of success with the anger/guilt. But the "fear" associated with "rejection" is stronger now than ever before.

Who do I feel vunerable to? The current focus of this fear is the men here on MS. I've hidden this rape issue from most everyone else outside of my wife and kids. So to expose myself here it's been a double edge sword. I've tried to keep reminding myself that it is "MY" issue no one elses but Damn it, it is hard to maintain that clearity. I mean no disrespect to anyone here it is simply fact that I struggle deeply with this and you guys are the ones that I've allowed to be in a postition to reject. So the power feels as if it has been handled over to others. I know I can hit the delete button and take back that control but then I'd be failing at this once again. Does this make one once of sense?

_________________________
Balanced (My goal)

There is symmetry
In self-reflection
Life exemplified
Grace personified

Top
#339257 - 08/30/10 04:05 PM Re: Fear [Re: Ever-fixed Mark]
CruxFidelis Offline


Registered: 06/16/10
Posts: 486
Loc: NJ
For me it was pretty tangible that my life was in danger. He very obviously showed me he could kill me just by pulling the plug, pressing a button.

And yeah, I feel guilty for having survived. He told me that if I didn't do sexual stuff with him, he'd kill me and I made the decision to do sexual stuff because I of the fear. Sometimes I wonder what I'd have done if the fear of dying wasn't so pronounced.

_________________________
“If a man wishes to be sure of the road he treads on, he must close his eyes and walk in the dark.”

- Saint John of the Cross

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#339259 - 08/30/10 04:57 PM Re: Fear [Re: CruxFidelis]
earlybird Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/17/10
Posts: 1007
Loc: WA USA
Crux, I can see a big differnce between our situations at the time of the rapes. You were put in a position of "precieved choice" where I was not. I can see where being put in a "choice" situation, which really is no choice at all, could lead to different feelings of guilt. Crux, I'm so sorry you were placed into such a terrible place. You did everything right there was nothing else you could have done!

_________________________
Balanced (My goal)

There is symmetry
In self-reflection
Life exemplified
Grace personified

Top
#339261 - 08/30/10 05:45 PM Re: Fear [Re: earlybird]
prisonerID Offline
Greeter Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/17/08
Posts: 1247
Loc: Oklahoma
Fear was not a factor for me during much of the night of my assault. I kept thinking that I would figure a way out of it. When I was tied up, when I was beaten and even when the gun and knife were used to threaten to end my life. I never felt I would did because I was arrogant enough to think I could outwit them. Then when the first rape began I gave up and wanted them to kill me.

The fear came later - in the next few weeks. Then my memory of it all went away for a short season. When it returned I became reckless but at the same time fearful. I have wrestled with so many fears since. Of rejection and further pain from others and so many other fears. I kept thinking it would happen again for many years. Actually, that only subsided this past year.

Earl, through hard work with my last therapist I began to feel some of the fear lessen. It was by processing that night almost minute by minute that the fears began to subside. I still wrestle with other fears and also triggering circumstances.

My biggest fear is that all I have is unstable and all will go away. Like it did the months following the assault. As an adult I felt that I had failed in protecting myself and having control over my body and my life. It is something I have battled ever since. And if anything triggers me it is the sense of lack over control in my life with any circumstance. Yes, we were adults. But who said we were supermen? Who said that one man could fight off two others who had a gun and a knife? Who would expect a man to be able to stop himself from being raped?

I did. I said it. I expected it. And I was wrong. And I remind myself of this almost every day.

I think what Brian suggested was a good idea about listing and being specific concerning what your fears are. Keep working at each one. Keep working on your recovery here and in the 3D world. You will find fear lessening though I cannot promise it will dissipate all together. One way to get rid of some of those fears is to keep opening up here. Where others can help you since several involve what others think or how they react to you.

I share a lot of the fears you mentioned. Someone here once told me that MS is a practice ground for the 3D world. I believe that now. And I have done things here that I never thought possible. Now one day I hope to translate that into my life out here.

Thank you for the courage you have shown in posting this. I must admit it is something I need to look at again myself.


Daryl

_________________________
Broad statements often miss their true mark.

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#339503 - 09/02/10 08:23 PM Re: Fear [Re: Ever-fixed Mark]
onlyakid Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 03/31/04
Posts: 1552
Loc: New Jersey
I was abused as a teen but I still can relate to your fears and those of earlybird

  • Fear of rejection by my peers-Check
  • Fear of being found out (as a fraud and inauthentic).-Check
  • Fear of failing *BIG CHECK*
  • Fear of trying in case I fail- Check
  • Fear that what happened to me somehow predetermines what's possible in my life. - Check
  • Fear of never getting any better than I am now.-Check


It affects my personal life (I isolate)
It affects my work life (I have been in the same job I've had since I was 16 (now 32) because I was afraid I'd fail)

Its not easy but somehow we have to get past this

Jason

_________________________
"Being with people that understand you...Priceless"

"and i don't want the world to see me, cause i don't think that they'd understand"

"You don't know what love is...you just do as your told"

"My life has changed. What you take as a simple thing, is not so simple for me anymore"


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#339548 - 09/03/10 04:51 PM Re: Fear [Re: onlyakid]
prisonerID Offline
Greeter Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/17/08
Posts: 1247
Loc: Oklahoma
Jason,

I agree that it is not easy to deal with fears in our lives. What I want to kick myself for so much is I do not learn my lessons. I am guilty of putting things off and not wishing to face them. I look at them with such dread and fear of failure or rejection. Time and again I have seen that I was wrong but will fall into the same pattern the next time.

My biggests fear career wise is that I am never good enough no matter how my department is ranked or does on reviews. I feel like I am missing something most days. The second biggest fear with my job is that I will just allow things to fall into such a mess that I cannot repair it. I have done this to an extent but no one outside knew it and I have been barely able to make the repairs in time.

I liked how you ended it your comments. It is not easy but we do have to keep working to get past these fears. I get so tired of the same cycle...maybe I am missing something.



Daryl

_________________________
Broad statements often miss their true mark.

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#339549 - 09/03/10 05:39 PM Re: Fear [Re: prisonerID]
calv Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 04/27/10
Posts: 45
Loc: seattle
my greatest fear...that someone would find out.
form 24 to 27 i was in a religious "christian"cult.
very pentacostal and spiritual...a very close knit community of about 20 yrs.
i was new in town having just left my lifes dream behind on the family farm.
as a csa survivor i was hurtin real bad
this church seemed to be "God's plan for my life..."
and they assured me it was.
I thought the love i saw was real...
It seemed like God was really doing things in there lives...
people where having these close relationships w God!
I wanted what they had!
It was wonderful...
I bought into it all... The worship and teaching...blew my mind and the kindness and love people showed each other.
This was a place of great healing from our past...
people where deliverd from struggles like drugs and alcohal
God was healing people all over
we prayed in tounges
there where prophceies
all we did was study by listening to all the teachers
in our own Bible Collage... and Church Church Church
The only people i met or knew where in this community
it was like a hospital for me at first...
i was a sponge i absorbed all i could
God was gonna use me to heal people....!!!
we where in a green house and God was gonna raise us up!!!
The world would oneday be at our door step ...
and we would Show them the Love of Jesus
There was going to be a great Revival !!!!
I was so excited to be a part of all that...
I loved and care about so many people
my family and my friends..so many hurst i never understood..
but now it all made sence
God had a plan For me!!!!
He was gonna use me in a big way.
I was a true beliver.
WE loved to worship...
music was vital
We would pray in groups everyday and worship for houres...
we only listen to our music
other christian music was tainted by the world
we where going to become the Bride of Christ
We where in love w Jesus
and his love was manifest through us in many many ways
soon we bagan to dance before the Lord in church...
it was all very spiritual...
and powerful
the more we danced the more in love we became...
we began to feel the heart of jesus for one another
He began to connect us spiritualy...
it was fan tastic...
Jesus pure Holy LOve manifest thru us...
he was taking us to a deeper place
I could write a fucking for part book about all this...
long story short it lead us right over the edge and it didnt end well...
Two of the elders had a 'special' love for me...
there was a lot of that special love going on...
i was right in the thick of it w all the really Spiritual women...
i was good lookin
cover boy for the brochere and student giuide book...
i got to rub elbows w the really big people
i was special....
Iwas Raped .. mentally . emotionally . spiritually. and sexually...

Do i have fear...
hell ya...
and now you know...






Edited by calv (09/03/10 05:48 PM)
_________________________
“When the Japanese mend broken objects, they aggrandize the damage by filling the cracks with gold. They believe that when something’s suffered damage and has a history it becomes more beautiful.” Barbara Bloom

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#339614 - 09/05/10 12:12 PM Re: Fear [Re: calv]
itrahan Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 03/02/10
Posts: 96
Loc: Louisiana, Gulf Coast
Calv....so sorry that you are so disillusioned, but understandably so considering all you have experienced. I also traveled the faith-healing concept....through two differnet religious factions. I did see similar things that affected me the same way. Trust will always be a huge issue with me. Good Luck on your journey and congradulations on reaching that courageous place to just write it all down.


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#339757 - 09/06/10 11:23 PM Re: Fear [Re: itrahan]
comet Offline


Registered: 08/28/10
Posts: 7
My fear is that I will still be thinking about my incident to my grave. That I'll never be the normal happy person I used to be. That every moment of happiness in my life will immediately be followed by the memory that I am not normal.


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#339768 - 09/07/10 08:04 AM Re: Fear [Re: comet]
earlybird Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/17/10
Posts: 1007
Loc: WA USA
Welcome Comet

We have not met so just wanted to introduce myself. I have worried and wondered if my being raped would be my last thoughts on the eventual day I would die. I never really put it as a fear till I read your post. I think what you said makes perfect sense. I just wanted you to know that you are not alone in that fear. Also you are normal it is the abusers that carry the stigma of being not normal. Thanks for sharing. Earlybird

_________________________
Balanced (My goal)

There is symmetry
In self-reflection
Life exemplified
Grace personified

Top
#339789 - 09/07/10 02:29 PM Re: Fear [Re: earlybird]
comet Offline


Registered: 08/28/10
Posts: 7
Hi Earlybird,

Thank you. I apologize if I suddenly triggered that fear into your mind. I wish I hadn't, because it really is something terrible to live with.

I do not suffer from flashbacks or body memories or panic attacks. My incident was something that... was kind of different. I would be comfortable sharing it with you through pm, if you would be ok with it. It would explain just how bad my fear really is, and why that is by far, my biggest.

As for the abuser.... I do not mean to offend you in any way, however I must disagree. I think that my abuser feels absolutely no guilt and considers my incident just a night of fun for him. It disgusts me.


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#339799 - 09/07/10 05:33 PM Re: Fear [Re: comet]
EGL Offline
Moderator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 06/19/04
Posts: 7821
Hi earlybird,

To me fear is one of things that the abuse "gives" us when robbing us of so many other things - our innocence, our purity, our ability to look at others without fear. In exchange for all the good things, abuse leaves us with that fear, shame, guilt, confusion, despair, self-loathing, etc.

For me, the way to offload that fear that I felt back then is it consciously remind myself when I am feeling triggered in similar situations that I am NOT back there any more. And that I can NOT be subjected to the same things that I was as a little boy. It keeps me grounded when triggering events occur. Hope this helps.

_________________________
Eddie

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#339800 - 09/07/10 05:48 PM Re: Fear [Re: EGL]
CruxFidelis Offline


Registered: 06/16/10
Posts: 486
Loc: NJ
I guess the scary thing about ASA is how sudden & unexpected it often is. I wasn't "ambushed" like some guys seem to have been but I was in the hospital and unfortunately it's a place I find myself from time to time, and I know that being as helpless as I was isn't my situation now, it's not out of the realm of possibility that it could happen to me again.

When I am there, everyone who cares for me is a potential threat.

maybe that is a bit off topic and is hould make another thread about it but that is how I feel

_________________________
“If a man wishes to be sure of the road he treads on, he must close his eyes and walk in the dark.”

- Saint John of the Cross

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#339807 - 09/07/10 07:42 PM Re: Fear [Re: CruxFidelis]
prisonerID Offline
Greeter Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/17/08
Posts: 1247
Loc: Oklahoma
Crux,

I don't think your comments are off topic at all. This is a real fear for you and anyone would be able to see why. I did not realize that you still had to be in a hospital on any current basis.

I have thought about your assault and can see why there would be an extra level of betrayal towards you. I am hoping you have some coping things in place for when you are hospitalized.
For many years I was waiting for the next assault. I am still hyper vigilant but it has lessened a lot the past year. I hope that one day it will be so for you too.

You are braver than you know.


Daryl

_________________________
Broad statements often miss their true mark.

Top
#339809 - 09/07/10 07:57 PM Re: Fear [Re: prisonerID]
earlybird Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/17/10
Posts: 1007
Loc: WA USA
Pete,

I want to second Daryl's words. This is the proper place for your fears. You have every right to be fearful and concerned. I hope you have in place support systems. Most likely nothing would ever happen again like that but then again......

As Daryl said you are an inspiration for us all. Thanks for sharing.

_________________________
Balanced (My goal)

There is symmetry
In self-reflection
Life exemplified
Grace personified

Top
#339833 - 09/08/10 07:48 AM Re: Fear [Re: prisonerID]
Mountainous Buck Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 12/15/09
Posts: 1626
Loc: Minnesota
I've struggled with fear since I can remember-I realize this is more than just a csa topic, and in a different forum.

It boils down go fear of rejection-in my csa I was rejected for who I was and made to be who THEY wanted me to be-so I've always felt unworthy around other men-especially those who resemble the teenage boys who humiliated, trapped, abused and hurt me -it broke my spirit and sense of safety.

I've come to realize that the shutting down and silence I acted out after my CSA was a more fundamental rejection of myself than just about anything else-if that makes sense. In trying to improve my life,I've seen that that was MY PART.

This hasn't been helped by my desire to have power over other males and to protect females at the same time being angry with those who aren't as messed up as me.

I laugh now when I recall one psychotherapist I saw for several months before my repressed csa memories erupted-he remarked that I seemed to have a "fear of catastrophic destruction" yeah, I guess you could call it that.

I didn't have the ability at nine to stand up for myself and speak my truth-so I've tried to get others to affirm me and NOT reject me. That's a lot to put on others - the expectation that they can heal me with me looking deep at the pain and brokenness inside and discovering that I DO have abilities, capabilities, and what happened to me was wrong and all about my perps. I don't need to take that negative energy on.







Edited by Mountainous Buck (09/08/10 11:20 AM)
_________________________
We have to take responsibility for what we're not responsible for.

“It doesn't matter where you've come from,
It matters where you go" Frank Turner

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