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#338029 - 08/10/10 03:11 PM Re: B.C. suspends penile sex tests on young offenders [Re: Ken Singer, LCSW]
kidneythis Offline


Registered: 11/08/09
Posts: 1558
Its abusive because they are doing it to children. Its abusive because it represents a false paradigm since you cannot know what the arousing factor is no matter what is being presented as a test the person is likely to be dissociative by diagnosis, or as in my case by choice and adaptation from when I was abused daily, I used this method to avoid unpleasant things I was being forced to see or hear. I simply go to my happy place.
How would anyone know that? I certainly wouldn't tell them, they have already demonstartted a willingness to inflict harm on me, more personal information will only make it easier for them to inflict more.
It's a sick and degenerate invention on par with the sex crimes the victims have committed. And again it was being used on children here not adult men with a choice. The children had their parents decide to do it to them after having been conned by the pervs using the damm thing.

"Researchers in another room then play images of adults having sex, followed by images of naked children and infants, as they monitor the youth's level of arousal, according to Robert Holmes, the president of the B.C. Civil Liberties Association."

If that scenario is accurate then even if the perversion is a valid tool the dam test is rigged by arousing the kid first with pictures of adults having sex then showing the children. I know when I was a teen once I got a hardon it did not go away for a long time no matter what was going on around me. I think most teens are this way. That may possibly be from the damage from the tournequet placed on my penis as a child but I don't think so.

The whole concept of it is offensive and makes me wonder about the people who developed it. I am sure a good developed and experienced counselor can read people better than this thing can predict likelyhood of reoffending.









Edited by kidneythis (08/10/10 03:11 PM)
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As Mark Twain once quipped, history may not repeat itself, but it does rhyme.

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#338037 - 08/10/10 06:22 PM Re: B.C. suspends penile sex tests on young offenders [Re: FormerTexan]
catfish86 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/27/09
Posts: 826
Loc: Ohio
I think a lot of the concern is that this is being done to juveniles. If a parent went down to a pharmacy or med supply company and bought one of these devices and did this to his/her 10yo boy, what would the local police and CPS reaction be? Meanwhile, I am afraid my kids might take a picture of themselves with their cell phone and be labelled a sex offender. Then the same folks do this to my kid once they have them under their control. I and any parent should have a REAL STRONG problem with this.

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The Serenity to accept the things I cannot change,
The Courage to change the things I can,
And the Wisdom to know the difference.

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#338095 - 08/11/10 02:49 PM Re: B.C. suspends penile sex tests on young offenders [Re: catfish86]
Marinan Offline
Guest

Registered: 07/03/07
Posts: 330
This is sick.


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#338100 - 08/11/10 04:15 PM Re: B.C. suspends penile sex tests on young offenders [Re: Ken Singer, LCSW]
jacobtk Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 04/08/03
Posts: 527
Originally Posted By: Ken Singer, LCSW
I'll say more if there are specific questions about this.


Ken, what you explained here is different from the explanation given in the article. The article states that the children are shown images of adults having sex, followed by images of naked children, and their arousal level is monitored by the device. It also states that the children must listen to a male voice describing the rape of children as they are shown the images. Likewise, Children and Family Development Minister Mary Polak specifically states that the test is used to determine a child's likelihood of reoffending. I am not challenging your understanding of how the test is used. I am just stating that the people who use this test on children explain it in a much different way.

That said, there is a long history of subjecting children to abuse and abusive "therapy" while in state custody, along with a history of those involved in such institutions mitigating, downplaying, or denying the occurrence of abuse, despite evidence demonstrating otherwise. As such, I remain skeptical as to whether the test is as benign as you stated, particularly given that if any layman conducted such a test they would be arrested for some sort of sex offence.

_________________________
Every day I die again, and again Iím reborn/Every day I have to find the courage/To walk out into the street/With arms out/Got a love you canít defeat/Neither down nor out/Thereís nothing you have that I need/I can breathe/Breathe now - U2

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#338119 - 08/11/10 08:23 PM Re: B.C. suspends penile sex tests on young offenders [Re: jacobtk]
Ken Singer, LCSW Offline
Moderator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/24/00
Posts: 5780
Loc: Lambertville, NJ USA
This is from a BC newspaper. I am only aware of the ppg from some trainings and discussions on the sex abuser treatment providers' listserve. Haven't been directly involved so my understanding may be off target. At least in the US, photographs of naked children are considered to be child sexual abuse images (child pornography) and are not permitted. Early ppg testers used such images that were confiscated by police but do not anymore due to federal regulations.

Another reason generally stated is that arousal for most teens is all over the place. So, getting a response on say, a baby being diapered is not a valid indicator that the teen sees the baby as a sexual object.

I certainly concur with you that coercive therapy for kids in state custody is unethical and abusive and should not be practiced. In my work with programs and individual therapists who use shaming and coercive practices, I will speak out about the abusiveness and research-backed evidence that it is counterproductive and damaging to the child.

End to sex arousal tests ordered

Technician charged with sex offence added to concern, minister says

By Vivian Luk, Postmedia News July 30, 2010

The British Columbia government has ordered a permanent end to controversial arousal tests used on youth sex offenders, following news that one of the contracted medical technicians has been charged with a sexual offence.

B.C.'s Minister of Children and Family Development Mary Polak said the technician in question was charged early this month. The charges are unrelated to the technician's work for the ministry or the youth facility.

"Nevertheless, that added to our concern about the procedure itself," she said. "As soon as the charge was brought to our attention, the contract with this individual was terminated."

The "penile plethysmograph" test involves attaching a device to male genitals that allows technicians to measure a subject's state of arousal. Test subjects are shown photographs of adults, children and even babies in varying states of undress while, at the same time, being read a story that describes coercive or forced sexual activity.

The device is meant to measure whether such treatments as psychotherapy and behaviour modification have been effective in suppressing deviant arousal. If the plethysmograph indicates no arousal to such images and stories, then the subject is deemed less likely to reoffend.

Polak instructed her staff to look into the youth sex tests soon after concerns were raised by the province's child watchdog and the B.C. Civil Liberties Association.

"The info provided to me has led me to believe there's no reason for us to continue such an intrusive practice that is so concerning, when we have other treatments and assessment practices to treat youth individuals in our care," Polak said.

© Copyright (c) The Victoria Times Colonist

Read more: http://www.timescolonist.com/news/arousal+tests+ordered/3340989/story.html#ixzz0wLW1PWP3


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#338123 - 08/11/10 09:57 PM Re: B.C. suspends penile sex tests on young offenders [Re: Ken Singer, LCSW]
WalkingSouth Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/30/05
Posts: 16265
Some years ago my wife's brother was convicted of sexual abuse against a couple or boys (he was guilty) and did six months on work release. Once his six months was up he spent the next five years on probation. During that time his PO and his therapist collaborated on administering this particular test to him. Basically they showed him child porn and measured his arousal level. His therapist described the procedure to my wife and myself when we were in with her brother for some "family" counseling.

I was sickened by that revelation knowing that if any one of us not part of the system were to use child porn in that way we would be arrested. From what you describe of the current laws, Ken, it would seem that using child porn in the testing is now against federal law. That is good to know.

Edit: The brother in law is currently serving 8 years in federal prison to be followed by several years in the State Penitentiary for sexual abuse of his son. Guess the "therapy" didn't take... Wonder why...



Edited by WalkingSouth (08/11/10 10:00 PM)
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#338126 - 08/11/10 10:14 PM Re: B.C. suspends penile sex tests on young offenders [Re: Ken Singer, LCSW]
jacobtk Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 04/08/03
Posts: 527
In another article Polak attempted to divert responsibility by stating that the ministry hires mental health professionals and allows them to make the decision of procedures to use. The article also states that the B.C. Civil Liberties Association will continue to investigate how the test came to be used despite it ethical problems.

It is remarkable that the test was apparently used for 20 years, yet the complaint by the BCCLA only occurred recently.

_________________________
Every day I die again, and again Iím reborn/Every day I have to find the courage/To walk out into the street/With arms out/Got a love you canít defeat/Neither down nor out/Thereís nothing you have that I need/I can breathe/Breathe now - U2

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