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#338031 - 08/10/10 03:36 PM Hopelessly hopeless, no where to heal
usmc97 Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 08/02/05
Posts: 437
Loc: Colorado
Of course there are some good things in life, the problem is that there are not enough of them to make up for the bad. My experience is pretty relentless.... rare times of feeling safe, little pain relief, repeated torment, overwhelming criticism and blame.... etc.

I don't have a chance and the "focus on the positive" stuff often digs that hole deeper. "At least you're still breathing", credit for that curse also goes to my abusers. There isn't much left of the real me that could function in this world.

My life is not good, my life does not belong to me. I do not have freewill or choices as people know for themselves. My perps are responsible for every aspect of all the things I am left to deal with. It's unrecognizable to be so far gone.... even suicide hotlines are lost in what to say because "there is always hope", "there is always at least one thing good". At the hospital level there is always a magic pill to take and having a plan is a sign of concern. They don't know what to do with someone who has multiple adaptive plans except maybe to really lock someone like me up in a institution.... that's a great life

The evil of the perps who hurt me goes so deep, there is just too much for anybody to be able to repair. The harm upon me just keeps building both from them and from the people who don't grasp the things done to me. It's not just memories, in the past, mental. I'm not depressed or need more medication. I need relief.

what else do I feel like writing....

So much pain

They are murderers, they did kill me physically and intentionally. Is it attempted murder because they revived me? Is it less because I breath today? Do I know what it feels like to be killed? Yes, horribly and I don't know how to express everything that goes with that. What's suppose to be said to me after being murdered multiple times? I survived? They had all the power in that "choice".

What do I do to explain the torture? Things they use that I still don't know words to describe. I don't know what to call the tools used and their actions. I can't count their numbers of how many total hurt me.

The surgical stuff.... how do I "get over" that?

What about being held captive, slave like, caged, dehumanized where even animals had dominion over me?

How do I heal when what I go through doesn't allow for it? When it's so hard for most to even recognize what I experience. Physically I have more than enough I have to deal with everyday, mentally there's a whole lot more and I can't find enough help for it all.

How do I become a real person?

_________________________
Semper Fi

The statistics? 1 in 4, 1 in 6?
...then there's me the imaginary number

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#338034 - 08/10/10 03:55 PM Re: Hopelessly hopeless, no where to heal [Re: usmc97]
kidneythis Offline


Registered: 11/08/09
Posts: 1558
Hi USMC97,
It sounds so painful yet you also sound like you've been able to see something good.
I don't know how to help you yet I think you hold that key for yourself.
I want to say that it sounds to me like you need to move away from where you are. But that is based on my perception, which you have told me is off, of you being in danger and being harmed where you are.

The hting that came to me with this post you have made is that you are looking at yourself through your abusers eyes. The beginning of the post seems to me to indicate you are regaining this sense of self esteem. I hope that continues as I can tell you the more able you are to accept yourself as you are the more inner peace you will gain.

My AA sponsor told me when I asked him one day how do I build self esteem when I don't even know what it is? He said if you want esteem you must do esteemable things.
For me this looks like being a good and kind person, occasionally being selfless to help someone, volunteering especially when I feel down, and generally doing good works without expecting or even asking for a reward other than thanks. Sometimes not even that. The first and best thing I got from that was that I got to meet people who were interested in doing those things and those are usually good people to be around.

I hope this helps you. And I hope you continue to find more good things.



Edited by kidneythis (08/10/10 04:06 PM)
_________________________
As Mark Twain once quipped, history may not repeat itself, but it does rhyme.

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#338035 - 08/10/10 05:55 PM Re: Hopelessly hopeless, no where to heal [Re: kidneythis]
usmc97 Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 08/02/05
Posts: 437
Loc: Colorado
The problem is that I am not able to be myself. I have not always been like this which is seemingly hard to have others comprehend. I refuse to accept that this is my life from here on out. There is no peace in trying to be content in what I have to go through. To be okay with any part of what I experience is a definite catapult to just die and get it over with.

I don't have a self esteem problem, I know my talents, I know what my capabilities were. I am not allowed to make use of them anymore. I only get a small fraction of what I use to be and I do everything I can whenever I have windows of ability. I had a life without all of these issues, I was so much more than this, I know what it is to have a normal functioning life. There is a frustration that I don't think I can explain to anyone here.

There is no escape, no good great enough, no distraction big enough, no selfless deed that makes any of what I experience any less than what it is. Nothing that I can do different, nothing inside of me that has any power to defeat the things I deal with. I have done it all, my efforts in everything have proven beyond doubt that there is nothing I control. Contrary to popular belief, there is a point where all of this is fact.

I don't have an inner conflict of trying to come to terms with things. The past was done, what I go through now is a whole different ballgame, neither are within my control. I have no power to regain, nothing I can take back or any of the other typical things said. The only thing that seems to come across is that I am negative and "playing a victim" and all the other things that folks use to place blame on someone that they don't understand.

There are so many unrealistic expectations of me, that was part of what I was trying to express. I don't expect to "survive" this, my days are always in the single digits.

_________________________
Semper Fi

The statistics? 1 in 4, 1 in 6?
...then there's me the imaginary number

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#338042 - 08/10/10 07:53 PM Re: Hopelessly hopeless, no where to heal [Re: usmc97]
kidneythis Offline


Registered: 11/08/09
Posts: 1558
USMC97,
I lost everything as well. Most on here lost everything, and all of us know what was and could have been.

You know what you were but you do not accept what you are. How is this not a lack of self esteem? You are imposing on yourself judgments about "things" you can no longer do and not crediting your mind which is who you are and where you live. How do people who become paralyzed cope? How does anyone who loses that which they believed to be their essence cope? They learn and come to realize that the things they di is not who they are it is the thoughts they have and the things they think that is who they are. Learning to accept limitations is a very hard thing. I was very bright and there was nothing I could not figure out as a child. Then that day came when I figured out something I shouldn't have and I was attacked, my mind was attacked repeatedly over and over for years to make me retarded and to make me forget the thing I figured out. and in the end when they couldn't make me retarded or drive me crazy they opted to use ECT on me (something they had used periodically while trying to drive me nuts) over and over until I was Tabula Rasa. I had to be taught how to do everything all over again. I mean everything, I was 5-6 and I was an infant. Of course I picked it up very quickly. But my mind was gone, has been gone ever since. I was lucky to find work when I did and was only ever able to keep a job for short periods. People tell me I'm bright but the fact is you don't have to tell bright people they are bright you only say that to children to help build their confidence. I know hwo dumb and dense I am and I remember how smart I was. Its the reason I can't watch Flowers For Algenon I am Algenon.

Try to appreciate what you have and as you learn to see that you are not what you used to be able to do you will learn to be happier.

KT

_________________________
As Mark Twain once quipped, history may not repeat itself, but it does rhyme.

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#338057 - 08/10/10 10:47 PM Re: Hopelessly hopeless, no where to heal [Re: kidneythis]
usmc97 Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 08/02/05
Posts: 437
Loc: Colorado
I'm not talking about what was lost as a kid or things lost by.... I'm not going to explain, it's useless.

Paralyzed... ill... etc are all different shoes that I don't walk in. I cope with some physical limitations and other things to a degree but I don't accept that what I go through is just another thing I need to get used to living with.

Other people have not walked in my shoes and because they have attained some sort of content in theirs does not mean that all have or will. There is no default switch that makes everything okay. Their ability to heal is dependent upon their circumstances just as mine are. How well would anyone heal if they were harmed every other day? How well would you be if you were still forced to undergo ECT every other day or if you were still getting attacked? When would you be okay with that existence?

I have done all that I can, it does not get better. There is no positive way to twist things to make up for the things that are lacking.

How much appreciation is someone suppose to give for a cup of water when they are being burned alive? Great it was better than nothing but how much better than nothing would it really be on a scale? It's a form of denial to try to use false hope by manipulating a positive spec to be more than what it is. I have to see things as they are or else I would be insane, reality would all be imagined and false like one of those crazy people who live in their own little world. That is unacceptable to me, there is no benefit to live a lie. I need real hope and nothing less.

_________________________
Semper Fi

The statistics? 1 in 4, 1 in 6?
...then there's me the imaginary number

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#338080 - 08/11/10 10:05 AM Re: Hopelessly hopeless, no where to heal [Re: usmc97]
kidneythis Offline


Registered: 11/08/09
Posts: 1558
Then its back to this; "I want to say that it sounds to me like you need to move away from where you are. But that is based on my perception, which you have told me is off, of you being in danger and being harmed where you are."

If moving won't work then you need to get into a place where you can be filmed as you sleep to get to the root of what is happening so that those who want to help you can figure out what is happening.

Finally you might consoder that your perceptions may be wrong and reconsider things you have rejected as possibilities for the cause of your continued symptoms of abuse.

_________________________
As Mark Twain once quipped, history may not repeat itself, but it does rhyme.

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#338098 - 08/11/10 03:47 PM Re: Hopelessly hopeless, no where to heal [Re: usmc97]
NDbiker Offline


Registered: 07/27/10
Posts: 37
Loc: North Dakota
umc97:
I have been wrapped up in your pain for a good day now. I had to read some of your old posts. Not all 400 but enough so that I could just begin to understand your situation. I have nothing more to offer than a cup of water myself.

You are looking for someone to identify with and get answers from. You are obviously very intelligent, yet you have asked many questions that we aren't capable of solving for you. In most posts you are already answering them. I hate feeling my own emotions. The pain is often overwhelming. When I see others in pain, it is equally as excrutiating. I often feel compelled to fix everyone around me.

Hope isn't given, it takes action to create it (So ironic, I also hate fortune cookie wisdom, but I'll be damned if that, simple sounding, corny crap hasn't worked for me from time to time). Do you realy believe you've done all that you can? I don't think you do or you wouldn't be here. What do you do, on a daily basis to increase your safety? You share your pain well, what about your progres

Kidneythis: Your compasion is admirable to say the least!



Edited by NDbiker (08/11/10 05:38 PM)
Edit Reason: my intentions weren't clear

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#338124 - 08/11/10 09:59 PM Re: Hopelessly hopeless, no where to heal [Re: NDbiker]
usmc97 Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 08/02/05
Posts: 437
Loc: Colorado
I reject things because I have already done them, in most cases I have tried them repeatedly. The doubt put upon me threatens my integrity and I start getting offended and defensive. Because the results did not have the ideal effect does not mean that I did something wrong or didn't do enough.

I have done everything realistically possible, I have been at this with a vengeance since day one over ten years ago.

I have been filmed, I have been watched, I have done it all, the source is what it is... which is not well received. My perception is not faulty because I am experiencing it, I know the difference of things but that is also proven unacceptable.

I come here because there is no other place I can be at times, my safety only increases when I am physically not alone. I try to share with those who are safe to me, sometimes they stay and befriend me, most run. Progress is relative, I can't celebrate what is not there. There are no baby steps to me, either something is there or it is not. I can't force myself to be another person, if I did then there again there would be no point to being around.

_________________________
Semper Fi

The statistics? 1 in 4, 1 in 6?
...then there's me the imaginary number

Top
#338129 - 08/11/10 10:45 PM Re: Hopelessly hopeless, no where to heal [Re: usmc97]
west Offline


Registered: 03/15/10
Posts: 20
Loc: Utah
usmc97 - I haven't read all of your posts and have a hard time grasping the level of your pain. Your words remind me of an old friend of mine who told me this story when he was intoxicated. I hope this is appropriate and does not cause you extra trouble. He was walking point for a squad in Cambodia. He did not detect the trouble in time and his group was captured by the bad guys, probably NVA. The leader of the bad guys was a sadist & my friend played his memory tape of witnessing two of his squad being tortured to death. He told me how he fooled the sadist, killed him (had a knife in his boot), and managed to get himself and his sargent out of there. I'm sure he would not have opened up about this had he not been intoxicated. Unspoken was how many of the guys he had to leave behind so he carries the pain of what he witnessed and what he was unable to do for all of his buddies. I wrote him a note about having heard his story, a note he read when he was sober, & the last I heard he had stopped drinking.

My father was my abuser & he was an alcoholic pedophile. What has been working for me? Writing that letter to my abuser while he was still alive, staying in individual therapy, I want to join a local CSA therapy group when I can afford the $ and time, talking with my sisters about the experience (dad was an equal opportunity abuser), I attended the WOR session this spring, talking about this stuff on these forums,...

You are obviously a survivor and everyone here wants to relate to you and share what they hope will be helpful to you. I hope you stay and keep talking.

West, WOR Sequoia 2010

_________________________
West
WoR Sequoia 2010

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#338143 - 08/12/10 02:39 AM Re: Hopelessly hopeless, no where to heal [Re: west]
usmc97 Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 08/02/05
Posts: 437
Loc: Colorado
Thanks West,

I had an experience which was very good for me by being around a group of "survivors" but in the end I wasn't welcome and told not to return. It was later said that I was too much to deal with and that what I needed was more than what they could provide, those were a couple of my best days and it still was too much to handle for others.

Same happened with the support group of which I was on a waiting list for years until they even brought one here, they asked me either not to share or not to return.... some support.

I did an inpatient extended stay residential program twice with "other survivors" that also ended up as me being cast away from the rest of the group and criticized by those "professionals" for not conforming to their realm of knowledge. What they witnessed me going through was not recognizable to them and instead of investigating and trying to help me they put there effort in how to make me become a "normal survivor". I don't have control of what I go through but if you ignore it all then maybe I can be looked at as being within the limitations of text books and other's experience.

Groups and most professionals have not been great, a lot of harm and rejection. My doc now is is good and one of few who is actually trying to help. I wish I could go to a WoR but they are so hard to gain access to with my situation. I can only wonder how folks would deal with having me at one.

I have friends who I can talk to when time and circumstances allow.

I don't even know who most of my perps are or how many, they seem to have thought of everything. Writing, role playing and every other exercise to deal with them is pretty useless for me.

The hard thing about coming here and saying anything is knowing the backlash and criticism I will receive by my "peers". I'm just talking about what I say concerning what I experience personally not when I go off on a subject. In comparison more is said to me to try and find fault and I don't need that, it hardly ever seems like I belong here but as I said.... where else do I go. It's not encouraging for others to find so much doubt in me.



Edited by usmc97 (08/12/10 10:35 AM)
_________________________
Semper Fi

The statistics? 1 in 4, 1 in 6?
...then there's me the imaginary number

Top
#338157 - 08/12/10 10:27 AM Re: Hopelessly hopeless, no where to heal [Re: usmc97]
NDbiker Offline


Registered: 07/27/10
Posts: 37
Loc: North Dakota
Like I said, I try to fix everyone around me, or atleast know that they are doing something for themselves. I've lived my life thinking I've had all the answers and when situations came up where I didn't, I'd become angry, even hostile. I appologize for projecting my need upon you.

You've taken daily(baby) steps to keeping your abuses with you your whole life, how do you expect to turn 180 degrees and leap out with one step? These expectations of your recovery are enormous. I'm only imagining the feelings of what you are going through, the weight of living it has to be absolutely crushing.


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#338164 - 08/12/10 12:11 PM Re: Hopelessly hopeless, no where to heal [Re: NDbiker]
kidneythis Offline


Registered: 11/08/09
Posts: 1558
USMC97,
You might try the exercise of tying to concieve of what would things be like if you were wrong about the suggestions and possibilities for your problems and some one you have rejected as not "seeing it right" or not "getting it" was right. Don't nit pick my language the intent of the language is clear enough if not exact.

Also you might try to show a bit of humility, your certainty comes across as arrogance and dismissiveness. We can't all be about you all the time these conversations by their nature have to include you trying on ideas that aren't all about you and the issue you brought here to find help with. That in itself is a helpful thing.
I am not telling you to give up your pain just to realize and acknowledge by your behavior that we all have pain and we are trying to help you. Gratitude for our efforts might be a better way to describe what I'm asking for. Not just a thank you but show by your posts and actions and participation with us that you know you are one of us.
No one, not one abuse victim is so different that they are completely outside of the group here.
Maybe offering help to someone else on here with all the experience you have with life I'm sure you can be of assistance to someone.
KT



Edited by kidneythis (08/12/10 12:16 PM)
_________________________
As Mark Twain once quipped, history may not repeat itself, but it does rhyme.

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#338166 - 08/12/10 12:24 PM Re: Hopelessly hopeless, no where to heal [Re: NDbiker]
usmc97 Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 08/02/05
Posts: 437
Loc: Colorado
It took one event to start all of these things, everything else followed. I have not carried these things my whole life, I grew passed it and made a good decent life for myself. None of it was fake and none of it was forced... I know who I am, who I was and what is missing within me now. I can't find how to repair myself from what I live through now, it's not my fault.

_________________________
Semper Fi

The statistics? 1 in 4, 1 in 6?
...then there's me the imaginary number

Top
#338167 - 08/12/10 12:40 PM Re: Hopelessly hopeless, no where to heal [Re: usmc97]
usmc97 Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 08/02/05
Posts: 437
Loc: Colorado
I'm not going to do every little thing that someone suggests and then lie about the outcome. If I did something 20 times with the same result, I am not going to do it one more time to satisfy someone's request.

My experience does not help others unless they want to hear the truth of what I know for me, "negative" as it may be received, it is honest and real.

I'm sorry that I don't live up to what others expect from a person and that whatever gratitude I try to express is not enough to satisfy someone's ears. I can't please anybody. Another check to mark, it's not looking good.

_________________________
Semper Fi

The statistics? 1 in 4, 1 in 6?
...then there's me the imaginary number

Top
#338176 - 08/12/10 02:49 PM Re: Hopelessly hopeless, no where to heal [Re: usmc97]
kidneythis Offline


Registered: 11/08/09
Posts: 1558
Originally Posted By: usmc97
I'm not going to do every little thing that someone suggests and then lie about the outcome. If I did something 20 times with the same result, I am not going to do it one more time to satisfy someone's request.

My experience does not help others unless they want to hear the truth of what I know for me, "negative" as it may be received, it is honest and real.

I'm sorry that I don't live up to what others expect from a person and that whatever gratitude I try to express is not enough to satisfy someone's ears. I can't please anybody. Another check to mark, it's not looking good.


USMC97,
Your post is narcisistic and passive aggressive. If you read it the whole thing is about YOU and how YOU can't this or that. You attribute motive intent and meaning where there is none. You claim in an ambiguous way that "gratitude is not enough to satisfy someone's ears". I think that is for "someone" to say. And what does that matter anyway, are you no longer grateful if they aren't satisfied with your offering of gratitude?

You seem so self centered you don't even realize how much so you are. It is a common trait among us, we are all guilty of it at some point.
I think if you'd simply follow the advice of helping others w/o expectation of any result, and taking success as they come w/o complaint, give honest consideration to any negative view of your help, and keeping your work on your problems separate. You will find that the helping of others will teach you unexpected things that will help you solve a lot of the issues that plague you and others don't seem able to offer anything but sympathy for.
Mainly the idea is to not be thinking about yourself or your problems for the entire duration of the time you have set aside to help someone else. It isn't easy at first it may seem impossible. you can succeed at it and I think find solace in being able to assist others.




Edited by kidneythis (08/12/10 02:53 PM)
_________________________
As Mark Twain once quipped, history may not repeat itself, but it does rhyme.

Top
#338203 - 08/12/10 09:01 PM Re: Hopelessly hopeless, no where to heal [Re: kidneythis]
usmc97 Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 08/02/05
Posts: 437
Loc: Colorado
I have helped and do help others with things, the things I deal with do not go away at any time. You are in the process of doing exactly what I'm talking about. You are assuming things about what I experience and not listening to me, then you judge by the picture you paint of me.

The gratitude thing.... I was getting told that my thank yous and appreciation is not up to par by someone else's standards. I don't need to perform anything for anybody, if I said thanks I meant it. I'm not going to go on and try to be overly gracious for everyone's advice, if I have done something to exhaustion it only takes so long before it becomes a part of the problem.

Narcisistic? Have someone else come along who has done all I have with all the same results and maybe I would have more of a chance to not be seen as a selfish monster my words seem to portray me as... my experience is lived by me, not for others to judge.

Didn't I say it almost always comes to me having to defend myself? If what I go through don't exist to anyone just sign the petition. I don't have to take up space in this world especially if I'm just made up already. How do I belong when nothing I say is acceptable by the standards of those who say I belong.

_________________________
Semper Fi

The statistics? 1 in 4, 1 in 6?
...then there's me the imaginary number

Top
#338205 - 08/12/10 10:00 PM Re: Hopelessly hopeless, no where to heal [Re: usmc97]
west Offline


Registered: 03/15/10
Posts: 20
Loc: Utah
I'm glad to hear that you have a good doc and some friends to listen.

I guess my reason for bringing up that story is that it is the type of story that most civilians have a hard time wrapping their head around & represents an extreme of abuse & very real fear of being killed, and not quickly. It felt like it may have something in common with your story in terms an experience that is so outside our norms of human behavior that words fail.

My friend's story did involve luring the sadist in with a promise of sex & then turning the tables. I suspect seeing my note the morning after he revealed some very closely held stuff probably scared the bejesus out of him because he did not know, when sober, how much he had revealed, when intoxicated, and didn't ask me. I guess the useful thing for him was that letting some of his story out of the memory banks, even if while intoxicated, had the effect of demonstrating one of the dangers of becoming intoxicated, loosing control of his ability to control his story & I think that's why he sobered up.

Writing works better for some people & talking better for others. I have found both useful. The important part of writing my first letter, for me, was simply casting in concrete exactly what I remembered. Sending it was very good. The least useful and unsatisfactory part of it was my father's response but I've found that his response does not matter very much because if I was hanging on for his response it just means he's still in control, and he is not. At the WoR we had a particular small group the purpose of which was to "Tell our story" and I feel that I made full use of that opportunity. I considered the other guy's stories worse experiences than mine & was so surprised at what I perceived an absence of anger in theirs. I consider anger to be fuel for healing. I was also surprised to realize that I'm grateful to have the knowledge of the identity of my perpetrator, a target for my anger. Some of these guys abuse occurred at so young an age that their memory was imprecise. They likened it to a black hole, you can't see it but you know it's there because of all evidence that surrounds it.

I feel like my experience is small potatoes and "baby steps" compared to yours.

West

_________________________
West
WoR Sequoia 2010

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#338227 - 08/13/10 01:55 AM Re: Hopelessly hopeless, no where to heal [Re: west]
usmc97 Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 08/02/05
Posts: 437
Loc: Colorado
I was killed, forcefully, and purposely more than once by my perps.... I can't even say that without someone trying to turn it into some exaggeration of what they think I could be saying instead of what I am plainly saying. They didn't "try to kill me", they didn't just threaten to kill me, they actually killed me as a part of the torture. That there is unacceptable to the ear, the default is "well you're still here", "you're breathing today". How does that cancel out what's been done? I can't say hardly anything without someone attacking my integrity and expressing their disbelief of what I've gone through and what I deal with now.

I don't do that to people. WHY IS IT OKAY TO DO TO ME!?!?

West,

With all of the stories here, it's all bad.... for you, for me, for others. Everybody is different, went through different things, and handles the things that have happened in their lives differently. No worse, no better..... just different. I've said that for years and included that in many of my posts. I can't conform to what is deemed "normal" around here and I by far can't claim myself to be a "survivor".

My doc works with mostly combat vets and has had a hard time trying to place me, in a lot of ways he wishes I could be placed closer to the POW's he's dealt with but still everything about me is too far from being able to really relate. The best I can do is try and stick close to my friends and hold on to what I know of myself but everyday it's failing and I don't expect miracles. Life is not as precious to me, I've already been killed all is left is to actually be gone for good and not sure when that will be.

_________________________
Semper Fi

The statistics? 1 in 4, 1 in 6?
...then there's me the imaginary number

Top
#338238 - 08/13/10 08:50 AM Re: Hopelessly hopeless, no where to heal [Re: usmc97]
fhorns Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/10/02
Posts: 613
USMC,
I don't and won't have words that connect with your level of pain. I wanted to say "thank you" for persisting. I think it's AS noble and courageous as those of us just starting to own our own stories too.

Honestly, I too am confused and overwhelmed by the intensity of your posts, as mine was "safer", all "in family".

However, your individual story catches my attention. Again, thank you for...persisting.

(I am consciously aware of shallow remarks, so I'll hold mine. Thank you for that too)

Alfred


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#338253 - 08/13/10 01:42 PM Re: Hopelessly hopeless, no where to heal [Re: usmc97]
kidneythis Offline


Registered: 11/08/09
Posts: 1558
Originally Posted By: usmc97
I have helped and do help others with things, the things I deal with do not go away at any time. You are in the process of doing exactly what I'm talking about. You are assuming things about what I experience and not listening to me, then you judge by the picture you paint of me.

The gratitude thing.... I was getting told that my thank yous and appreciation is not up to par by someone else's standards. I don't need to perform anything for anybody, if I said thanks I meant it. I'm not going to go on and try to be overly gracious for everyone's advice, if I have done something to exhaustion it only takes so long before it becomes a part of the problem.

Narcisistic? Have someone else come along who has done all I have with all the same results and maybe I would have more of a chance to not be seen as a selfish monster my words seem to portray me as... my experience is lived by me, not for others to judge.

Didn't I say it almost always comes to me having to defend myself? If what I go through don't exist to anyone just sign the petition. I don't have to take up space in this world especially if I'm just made up already. How do I belong when nothing I say is acceptable by the standards of those who say I belong.


I'm sorry you see it that way. I have not judged you. I am basing my statements and suggestion on what I see of you.
In my experience someone that is so focussed on themself and stuck in a rut or loop of painful reliving or rumination needs to get out of their own head. Doing service work for others is the best way I know, to just to give their own mind a break.

When one starts this yes some ruminations can pop up but one continues on and turns away from the memory or rumination to engage in helping another and works to focus the mind on that other person and what they need. Sure you may feel an undercurrent of the pain at the best of times but you get to be thinking about something and someone else. That is a good thing for anyone.
Eventually the ruminations and pain do stop interfering with helping/service work. They don't disappear or go away permanently right away but you get a break from them when doing this and in that break some of the joy of life can take place. The simple interaction with the one you are helping, the good feelings one gets from being kind, and so on.
Another benefit of focussing on another's problems and helping them is that your own mind processes things while you are focused on something else and you begin to find new perspectives when you are alone again and thinking.

Over time you will find that the alone time after service work doesn't immediately become a stepping into that pain. You have other thoughts, and other things happen to which you are able to pay attention w/o being distracted by your pain.

Please don't think I minimize you or your story. I cannot comment on it or figure it out to any degree that would be helpful.
But I do see this and I do firmly believe that if you can get yourself to regularly do selfless service work for others on a regular basis and especially when the pain gets bad, that you will be able to find some peace and maybe even improve your inner life.

The fact here is, life just isn't always about us and our pain,and when we forget this the pain becomes worse.

KT

_________________________
As Mark Twain once quipped, history may not repeat itself, but it does rhyme.

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#338280 - 08/14/10 01:33 AM Re: Hopelessly hopeless, no where to heal [Re: kidneythis]
usmc97 Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 08/02/05
Posts: 437
Loc: Colorado
There isn't any getting out of this, it's not pseudo physical pain it is real physical pain. I do as much as I can in spite of it. I don't have a mental loop of things it is a whole other level of things that I don't know how to explain it seems.

I can not do enough for other people, there is always an expectation of more that needs to come from me. Because I deal with the things that I try to talk about it somehow implies that I am not doing enough to combat it all when that is far from the truth. These are what I mean by assumptions. Since I don't heal it must be because I have done something incorrectly, doesn't anybody see the blame in that?

I still repeatedly get told I need to "get out of myself" just as you have said, it does not work with what I deal with. I do all I can for others, I do all I can for myself. It does not work with what I deal with. My only sense of relief is time with people who I see as safe, so much so it can be overwhelming for them to handle everything that had to be held in.

There are things I can not do, I can not go out and volunteer for something at just anywhere, I can not commit to a routine thing, I can't handle most strangers. There are days I can not walk, eat, leave a room, sometimes I can't even speak a word because of pain. There are multiple things I have to deal with, I was deemed disabled for a reason.

I hate feeling like I'm supposed to explain myself all the time here. I've said all of these things before. Why is it so hard to accept me, what I experienced then and now anywhere? Everyone(definitive word, some should know they're exempt) keeps trying to categorize me so that I am "fixable", hence all the same repetitive suggestions, all of which I have done over and over all of these years but it is not enough to satisfy anybody. It's always that I'm suppose to do it one more time for each individual.

You just asked me to try this particular thing again. Why? Honestly, why? The next step is to place blame(aka emphasis of responsibility) back on me.... "it's not always about you", "if you choose to allow things to continue", ending up with my "rejecting" everything and being "negative", the sure way to judge all of my efforts.

I have done every tiny detail of all the steps that others have taken toward "healing" that are realistically possible. IT IS NOT MY FAULT THAT THEY DO NOT WORK FOR MY SITUATION.

It's like if we all had cancer and I am the only one that had no response to chemo, everyone is certain that I need to do the same treatment plan that they did, different combinations of all the same steps. I've done them all, the expectation is to do them again, so I did, again and again with no result. Does it look like the cancer I have is getting any better by use of the chemo? No. May the cancer be a little different? Evidently, yes. Is it my fault nobody wants to recognize that? Do I blame them for trying to help? No. Do I get frustrated? Yes. Do I blame them for not listening to me? Yes, because I've told them over and over. So what's going to be the result? Guess I'll eventually die now or later, my cancer will never have existed and the next person with shoes like mine will be ignored too.

_________________________
Semper Fi

The statistics? 1 in 4, 1 in 6?
...then there's me the imaginary number

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#338301 - 08/14/10 02:34 PM Re: Hopelessly hopeless, no where to heal [Re: usmc97]
kidneythis Offline


Registered: 11/08/09
Posts: 1558
Addressing as much as I can here;
" I can not do enough for other people, there is always an expectation of more that needs to come from me. Because I deal with the things that I try to talk about it somehow implies that I am not doing enough to combat it all when that is far from the truth. These are what I mean by assumptions. Since I don't heal it must be because I have done something incorrectly, doesn't anybody see the blame in that?"

First whatever anyone expects from you is their problem. Unless you have an arrangement giving, and how much is your choice. I haven't assumed anything. What I have said are ideas for how you might find a way out of being what seems like constantly under the pain and thoughts your abuse inflicts on you.
My posts are not a lack of acceptance of you or your situation. That said the fact that your posts never change means somthing in your life is not changing. People change, things change postings are good and bad over time there is an ebb and flow of the emotions you don't relay that in your postings. It might be that you only come here to unload the bad stuff and when things are good you focus on that. I'm guilty of that myself. BUt if that isn't so then my experience with life and learning to help myself be better I have learned that an unchanging story is a sign that one is stuck and the things I have suggested work for me and many others. But as you say that isn't for everyone. There is also the fact that I don't read all of your posts and their replies so I am not aware of all the replies you get. So if someone else has suggested the same thing or somethign similiar and it didn't work for you I am unaware of it.

My suggestions are the way out from under the weight of pain and painful memories and thoughts that myself and millions of others have used successfully. Its not just a matter of doing for others its a matter of adjusting ones outlook, consciously trying to not dwell on ones own problems even when they don't seem to change and the giving feels like life force ebbing away. For me and the others I have helped that perception is my self centered mind trying to keep me focussed on myself.
I have learned that in 90% of cases when I am hurt by what others say or do, they are often unaware and did not mean to hurt me. They were just in their own stuff in that moment and it never occured that them being themselves hurt others.
I had hoped it would be a way for you, to get some peace as well.

I am truly baffled by the awfulness of the things you are forced to re-experience and I hope that some day one of us on here hits on a way for you to take control and find some peace.


KT

_________________________
As Mark Twain once quipped, history may not repeat itself, but it does rhyme.

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#338314 - 08/14/10 05:04 PM Re: Hopelessly hopeless, no where to heal [Re: kidneythis]
usmc97 Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 08/02/05
Posts: 437
Loc: Colorado
I am sorry that I come off in such a way, I know you don't mean to say anything hurtful and you're just trying to help. Please understand how many years I've been actively putting all my effort in things, I haven't had a break, I don't get to stop just because I'm tired or because therapy or whatever else gets too hard. I continually cycle through everything available over and over. I am frustrated and I don't know how much longer I can go on.

What I meant by people expecting more does not relay to those who I am helping in whatever facet at the time, they are glad to have the help in any amount I am capable of doing. Because my issues and demeanor don't ever much change, people outside of those situations see me as just self consumed and stuff. They either don't see or don't acknowledge what I do even if I tell them. Just like how I haven't been able to work for 9 years now and I still have the same people ask me if I am looking for work. It becomes hurtful over time.

Everything I have to deal with is a full time job that don't go away, I don't get any true progression, little if any short times of relief, not for lack of trying it's just truth of the matter. The physical pains are one of the things that limit me most both because of what it hinders me from and also because others don't understand, externally I'm physically fit, internally there is a lot of physical damage and there is nothing I can do about any of it.

I've been meticulous in doing everything that has ever became available to me, when it sounds like someone doubts my efforts I know that they just don't grasp how desperate I have been to rid myself of this curse. I then get compulsive in trying to make someone understand me and correct the false picture they might have of me. So here I am again on this track of trying to explain and defend all over again.

I don't start any of my post hoping to get hurt.


_________________________
Semper Fi

The statistics? 1 in 4, 1 in 6?
...then there's me the imaginary number

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#338350 - 08/15/10 11:35 AM Re: Hopelessly hopeless, no where to heal [Re: usmc97]
kidneythis Offline


Registered: 11/08/09
Posts: 1558
You do not have to apologize to us on here. we understand frustration and confusion as odd as that may sound.

Maybe that is something you can focus on, not apologizing for yourself and your position. When someone offers a suggestion to help just say "thank you for the offer of help, I've already tried that and didn't get good results." Do not apologize, you have nothing to apologize for in such a situation.

I'm recomending that you choose that one thing to change and focus on it w/o bothering with the rest of the stuff for now. I think it will be a good exercise. Remember no matter how much you "feel" like you need to apologize in such a situation, don't. I think this will be a first step in moving forward with taking your power back.

KT

_________________________
As Mark Twain once quipped, history may not repeat itself, but it does rhyme.

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#338366 - 08/15/10 02:41 PM Re: Hopelessly hopeless, no where to heal [Re: kidneythis]
usmc97 Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 08/02/05
Posts: 437
Loc: Colorado
There is no way to get around it, even declining someone's suggestions politely in a way like you have said still puts me in a bad light. It feeds their judgements that I am stubborn, negative, unwilling, and a liar among other things. Anything that someone can tell themselves to justify their view of what they believe about me, whatever to place the blame and responsibility on me. Nothing is acceptable from me unless I was to be something that I am not. False hope, false appreciation, false progress, false joy and a fake smile is all that most people want from me which I can't give. They can't grasp what my life consist of or my continual failure to fix the consequences of all my perps doings that I am left to live through. It's not my fault that I am left behind and hopeless, or that what is known to help others has had no effects with what I deal with. I feel forced to apologize for being so different

_________________________
Semper Fi

The statistics? 1 in 4, 1 in 6?
...then there's me the imaginary number

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#338370 - 08/15/10 03:41 PM Re: Hopelessly hopeless, no where to heal [Re: usmc97]
kidneythis Offline


Registered: 11/08/09
Posts: 1558
I'm not sure you get what I am asking you to do.
Your response speaks to how you feel compelled by what you percieve others to be thinking of you. This is a different issue to not apologizing.
You speak of how others ask you to be false etc. I know this to well. It is a large part of why I have so many problems where I live/ I look good so no one understands or even thinks I am in pain and that is why I look like I do. Apparently my pain face is intimidating and frightening. I can't let their inability to see past the ends of their noses control what I think of myself. It really threw me for years why everyone was so openly rude and nasty toward me, until I finally figured it out.
Anyway that too has nothing to do with the one thing I asked you to try.
Just do the one thing. Assert yourself enough to refuse to apologize no matter how much you think it is necessary or feel the need to.

As for what others think of you. Its a two edged sword, we are not supposed to care what others think in that we should not let others opinions control how we think or behave. We need others to be close to us because we are human so their opinions of us and what we think count.
I think my problem with that was that I did not discriminate between the people I chose to allow to be close to me and simple aquaintences and people I met in passing. I still struggle with this. A start for me was that I decided to make everyone an aquaintence or stranger and no one was close so I don't need to be so open. I am developing a set of rules which I don't have anything concrete of yet by which I can evaluate who to let in and who to keep out.

It sounds from what you say that you don't have proper personal inner boundaries with people. Which is what I just described as my problem. I think asserting yourself about the not apologizing will be a start for you to regain and redefine proper boundaries for yourself on your own terms.

Its hard to separate everything when it all feels so connected. Here is where some trust in the concept is necessary. I think you can see the value of not apologizing for things others appear not to approve of or even understand. I am asking you to trust that doing this one thing will effect a positive change in your life.

_________________________
As Mark Twain once quipped, history may not repeat itself, but it does rhyme.

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#338389 - 08/16/10 01:20 AM Re: Hopelessly hopeless, no where to heal [Re: kidneythis]
usmc97 Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 08/02/05
Posts: 437
Loc: Colorado
I don't have problems much with boundaries either, I know the audience here and have plenty to go on as to what many "survivors" think of me. I give some in order to try and have folks understand who they are talking to, in the end most end up marking me with whatever they think is suitable. I did not say that I was sorry for what I have said about myself and what I experience.

I have never witnessed anybody else on this site getting interrogated as I have, I am always having to prove and defend myself. Randomly go through other's postings and you won't see the stuff that is relayed to me.

How did this posting still come to be what it's become? Everything I say is met with questions and doubt of me. My apology was for me not being able to live up to whatever anybody expects of me, that I am too stupid to be able to talk right enough for anybody or my "peers" to even understand me. It's empty words to say I belong when all there is for me is corner to keep my mouth shut. Every time I talk about things it's met with all this other stuff, instead of just plain old encouragement it's a list of suggestions to which I respond unacceptably or else they wouldn't continue.

I don't much ask for advice, I ask specific questions and give a background as to why. I rather people say that they just don't know what to say. Through this and other postings it seems that no one hears me. It's always trying to tell me that I might have skipped a step when I haven't, always always always doubt.

_________________________
Semper Fi

The statistics? 1 in 4, 1 in 6?
...then there's me the imaginary number

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#338430 - 08/16/10 04:22 PM Re: Hopelessly hopeless, no where to heal [Re: usmc97]
kidneythis Offline


Registered: 11/08/09
Posts: 1558
Once again I am at a loss as to what it is you want or need.

You title your post hopelessly hopeless (which is the general tone of all your posts) and then when someone engages with you and offers suggestions to you as a way to improve the situation or thing you complain about you attack them passively by claiming that they have insulted you or ignored you or stuck a label on you.
The common factor here being YOU.

You do not want to engage in the simplest of endeavors. You do often apologize when someone offers you advice that you claim is an insult or indicates they aren't listening or lebeling you. "I'm sorry my X is so hard to deal with" is usually the form of it. I simply wanted to engage you in trying one thing and you have very effectively sidestepped it, diverted it, madeout it was an attack or labeling of you. You've put more effort into avoiding actually speaking to the one thing and the one thing only than it would have teken for you to have tried my suggestion.

It seems to me you are determioned to remain exactly as you are and ignore all efforts to engage you or help you.

I'm happy to continue engageing with with you. I have no personal investment this is me giving freely to help somoene in need.
I think we should go to PM if you want to continue. I will leave it up to you to PM me if you think I have someting to offer you otherwise I wish you well and hope that you find some peace and enjoyment in life.

_________________________
As Mark Twain once quipped, history may not repeat itself, but it does rhyme.

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#338488 - 08/17/10 04:02 PM Re: Hopelessly hopeless, no where to heal [Re: kidneythis]
usmc97 Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 08/02/05
Posts: 437
Loc: Colorado
What I need is to find that I'm really not alone in what I have specifically experienced, to have my friends in real life care enough to collectively really help me battle what's been dealt to me, to have more times of safety, to have access to the parts of me that have been taken from me, to be functional again, to be understood so that I can be helped, to be able to have a family, to have purpose, to.........

What I want here at MS is to be heard with my own words, believed without doubts and assumptions, or hearing that what I live does not exist. It's pretty basic. I don't come here with a hope that someone knows how to "fix" me or what I experience. I don't much ask for advice. I don't try to fix others with all the things that have failed when applied to me. I watch as those who came here after me leave here before me, always looking to see if I've missed something.

I haven't asked for a continual repeat of things that I have already done or been doing. I have asked for what else someone is supposed to do once they have done everything. If that can't be answered then a simple "I just don't know" is fine or just listen without trying to fix things.

You as with others are not hearing my words, that I have done everything available literally. If you are hearing it you are not believing it, I can not change that. I have made things as clear as they can be, denial, disbelief, and assumptions are what alters my words into what someone else is capable of understanding.

Originally Posted By: kidneythis
It seems to me you are determioned to remain exactly as you are and ignore all efforts to engage you or help you.

Perfect example of what I have said happens as a general response by people. I've already went over why I reject suggestions and the expectation of me to perform for each individual to which you fell right into doing. I have tried your suggestion to the best of my ability, the thing you failed to see was that I didn't do it again for you. You have it wrong, you ARE placing blame on me because what I deal with does not change. You ARE hearing a noise and not listening to my words. It IS NOT because of anything I have done or not done that what I deal with does not change. It is insulting and something is being ignored whether it is "ME" who is at the center or not.

You have no idea how desperate I have been to not be raped, mutilated, tortured, and all else that I experience whether it is real to you or anybody else. This leads usually to me having to defend my sanity, then the labels, then... this whole conversation is not new, same basic outline of what happens when there is a lack of understanding me. How it is what I live through and how it's not recognizable becomes less and less of a concern. The priority is to stop it and allow me to be me again like I was before.

My doc once told me that maybe my stuff is like calculus and that most people can't get to where they can grasp and accept it as it is, another thing that growingly seems prove true no matter where I surface.

Just makes me feel that if the statistics are 1 in 4 or 1 in 6, whatever someone wants to have recognized, I may only ever be an imaginary number.

_________________________
Semper Fi

The statistics? 1 in 4, 1 in 6?
...then there's me the imaginary number

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#338489 - 08/17/10 04:28 PM Re: Hopelessly hopeless, no where to heal [Re: usmc97]
usmc97 Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 08/02/05
Posts: 437
Loc: Colorado
I'm supposed to be letting this post go but I keep allowing myself to get sucked back in. Nothing ever amounts to what I originally post, it always gets turned into something like this and I'm left taken away from what I first had to say, unheard and back where I started.

_________________________
Semper Fi

The statistics? 1 in 4, 1 in 6?
...then there's me the imaginary number

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#338514 - 08/17/10 09:38 PM Re: Hopelessly hopeless, no where to heal [Re: usmc97]
west Offline


Registered: 03/15/10
Posts: 20
Loc: Utah
USMC

Obviously nothing will ever cancel out what has been done to you. Understatement of the year. I think we're all at a loss here to identify with your level of pain. We have ideas based on what's working for us, what we've witnessed in our healing processes, and that's about what we have to go on. Some of us are making the transition from victim to survivor. Some have farther to go than others I guess. We all have that drive to want to 'fix the other guy' but of course that's not in the cards & the best we can do is keep talking and try to relate.

What was your age (range) when you were abused/tortured? Was it family, strangers?

I participate in show n' tells at schools with combat vets who seem to think that I have something worth saying even though the one rocket that I saw was going over my head (the one you can hear is the one that isn't going to get you). After hanging around with them some I have a little bit of an idea how deeply their experience is drilled into their being. For what it may be worth to you there's a song written by a combat guy of my generation on You Tube. Nue Ba Den by Mike Morningstar. It's easy to find. It pretty much heads for the heart with a sharp knife. I like it because it's real honest.

Sounds like you have a good doc & am glad for you about that. Is there a remnant of "the kid within" that you can hold onto? Do you have trustworthy people in your life who "knew you before it happened". Can they talk with you? The perps murdered the child I know. I relate to that.

West

_________________________
West
WoR Sequoia 2010

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#338584 - 08/18/10 05:08 PM Re: Hopelessly hopeless, no where to heal [Re: west]
BuryingJack Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 04/02/10
Posts: 101
USMC97 -

I'll start by saying that I haven't read all of your posts, so there is no way I can know what you're going through - your specific situation. What I do know is the things you have written (the ones I have read) make sense to me. I don't know if you are a marine - but I was trained by marine gunny's, and I know that the process of going through that training, has made it more difficult for me to recover. Marines kick ass - and they made me better in some ways - but what I went through as a kid was made more difficult to deal with because of my military training. I'm still trying to figure it out. The point I'm making is that you should not feel as though everything works for everyone else, but it doesn't work for you. The reason you're different is because you've been through much more (I'm assuming here that you're a marine). Whatever you went through on active duty is separate from how you were trained in basic or OCS. The training had an effect on your recovery. Again, sorry if I haven't read everything you have written and I've completely missed details that mean so much to you - but you're a strong guy. I'm not going to tell you anything because I'm a mess myself, but keep working on yourself. Believe that there's innocence in there. Believe that the reason people ask when you're getting another job is because people recognize that you're smarter than you think you are. Good luck man. Don't talk to yourself like a gunny.

Chris
www.buryingjack.com
www.buryingjack.com


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#338669 - 08/19/10 08:30 PM Re: Hopelessly hopeless, no where to heal [Re: BuryingJack]
usmc97 Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 08/02/05
Posts: 437
Loc: Colorado
West,

The sexual stuff started at about 8 years old and lasted until I was 14 at the latest, other abuse took place before and during this time by someone else. First sexual perp was a boyfriend of my mom's , 2nd came the group who were strangers that kept all of it's members anonymous from me, last was the priest I went to for help.

I don't have much of that inner child stuff, I'm all me without division... adult-like and kid-like all in one. I don't really have anyone in my life who knew me before I became the way I live now which makes it hard for people again to understand me. What I deal with is presently hurting me and not just past stuff that is acceptably intrusive. Not body memories, not nightmares, not anything that others seem to describe. My perps really did murder me as a kid, killed me physically dead, not metaphorically. They then revived me by medical means each time it went that far.

Buryingjack,

I am a Jarhead, my training and most everything about the Corps has not really effected me in the ways you say. More so it separates how people don't grasp how I could have done all that I have said, whereas another Marine of a certain caliber would be more accepting of my efforts and my word, not doubting my integrity especially if they knew me personally. Most civilians have a hard time grasping a true military mentality, identity, and work ethic. I went through more as a kid than I did in the Corps, the Corps saved me even with how hard it was on it's own.

People have asked me about the job thing because the majority of people can't see passed what they want to see. I'm disabled and have a lot of chronic physical pain but keep myself physically fit, my appearance does not take away the things that make me unable to provide for myself.

They do not ask out of encouragement, it is purely based on their choices to remain oblivious. If I've told someone for 9 years that I'm on disability, who are they to deem that I am just lazy and taking advantage of some system? It's not a title and position that I want to be classified under but it is reality. I have so many limitations that I can't count them, I can't explain all of them, none of them are in effect because of my lack of will or effort... it is just how things are but it seems like all are able to judge what I can and can't do, and the why and why nots of my daily life. I know my talents and everything else, I don't doubt myself with what I know, it is others who decide to question everything about me.

I'm met here with a third degree, where if I say something... about myself... about my experience... about what just happened to me hours before... I am targeted for doubt, judgement, disbelief, and opened up for whoever wants to TELL me what my life is as according to their knowledge. My experience never means nothing.

I then get unjustly pegged for being "negative" and defensive... and it's somehow a surprise why I respond like that.

_________________________
Semper Fi

The statistics? 1 in 4, 1 in 6?
...then there's me the imaginary number

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#338720 - 08/20/10 10:23 PM Re: Hopelessly hopeless, no where to heal [Re: usmc97]
west Offline


Registered: 03/15/10
Posts: 20
Loc: Utah
USMC

My abuser was active at about the same age range as you. One person, my father, not really physically violent, so I understand the fact of a big difference in our experiences in that regard. He murdered my childhood but not me physically as in your case. A lot of people would have enforced a self imposed memory black out, not you.

I worked with a former Army special forces guy & have crossed paths with a couple more and a few Marines too. The professional military ethic is a fact and is something I do respect even if my active duty '70-'72 was as a less than enthusiastic con>
_________________________
West
WoR Sequoia 2010

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#338743 - 08/21/10 12:44 PM Re: Hopelessly hopeless, no where to heal [Re: west]
kidneythis Offline


Registered: 11/08/09
Posts: 1558
I never knew that name West. Wiped, that would be what was done to me with drugs and Electroshocks. They call it Electro Convulsive Therapy (ECT) now, but it was more properly called electroSHOCK treatment back when they did it to me. Fact is it was my abusers doing this to me not anyone properly trying to help me. Maybe one or two people didn't know the origin of the problems I displayed (carefully conditioned responses and behaviors taught by my abusers who had extensive medical knowledge) that was justification for the drugs and ECT, but most did and were doing it to hide that abuse not to help me. They actually were hoping to make me a veg and only relented after many many tries at destroying me did not work. They decided the lowered mental capacity they had inflicted was enough to cover up the abuse.

Thanks West.



Edited by kidneythis (08/21/10 12:45 PM)
_________________________
As Mark Twain once quipped, history may not repeat itself, but it does rhyme.

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#339014 - 08/25/10 11:47 PM Re: Hopelessly hopeless, no where to heal [Re: kidneythis]
west Offline


Registered: 03/15/10
Posts: 20
Loc: Utah
Jeezuuz - Sorry to hear that. I can only believe that your experience would have crushed me. I had that same feeling about the guys in my 'small group' at the 2010 WOR. In one of those sessions when it was my turn at "my story" I closed my eyes did a time travel back to the most traumatic (in my consciousness) abuse at the hands of my father & vented my spleen with all the ammunition I had at my disposal. I was so surprised to hear the other guys expressing so little anger at what I considered to be far worse abuse than what I had experienced.

Sounds like you and usmc97 have more in common there than either one of you wanted. His discussion thread seems to have dropped off the cliff & I'm concerned about him. I can't find any more recent notes from him. The thing I was referring to was the military doc's doing controlled exposure to psychodelic drugs to induce memory loss on combat/POW survivors either because "this guy was not supposed to have survived & we can't let what he knows get spread to a wider audience" or they truly thought they were doing the guy a favor.

That term "wiped" came from the former Army Special Forces guy I worked with & I've had one other reference to it from a different SF guy.

Has any therapy or discussion here been helpful/healing for you?

West

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West
WoR Sequoia 2010

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#339026 - 08/26/10 10:32 AM Re: Hopelessly hopeless, no where to heal [Re: west]
kidneythis Offline


Registered: 11/08/09
Posts: 1558
Thanks West.
It isn't so much the things done to us as it is the emotional impact of it. There is no direct comparison scale to X will cause Y reaction. Some who have had worse handle it better and some who have had less don't make it at all.


A lot of that might be the lack of knowledge and truth about abuse. Even today the majority I mean 85% and up believe myths about abuse and don't recognize even the simplest and to me easiest signs of it an others. Which based on the myths so many believe is probably a good thing all in all.

I enjoy the human connections I get to make. I can't say a lot has been therapeutic except that the board allows me to post my opinions and ideas. I need an awful lot more trust building before my crap is going to fully surface so it can be dealt with. For now I get to have nightmares about shit I do remember and worry about never being able to get justice or a full accounting.
And than you

As for usmc I worry too. It seems as impossible to make a connection with him as it is possble to be. I don't seem able to engage him in anything that he doesn't manage to turn into me attacking him or distorting him. He's stuck trying to percieve or thinking he percieves what others are motivated by, rather than engaging them in what they say. Its very sad I hate to see so much pain. I had thought I lived a horrible existence with all the pain I endure but at least I know a few ways to get happy that are based on doing good things.



Edited by kidneythis (08/26/10 04:36 PM)
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As Mark Twain once quipped, history may not repeat itself, but it does rhyme.

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