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#338157 - 08/12/10 10:27 AM Re: Hopelessly hopeless, no where to heal [Re: usmc97]
NDbiker Offline


Registered: 07/27/10
Posts: 37
Loc: North Dakota
Like I said, I try to fix everyone around me, or atleast know that they are doing something for themselves. I've lived my life thinking I've had all the answers and when situations came up where I didn't, I'd become angry, even hostile. I appologize for projecting my need upon you.

You've taken daily(baby) steps to keeping your abuses with you your whole life, how do you expect to turn 180 degrees and leap out with one step? These expectations of your recovery are enormous. I'm only imagining the feelings of what you are going through, the weight of living it has to be absolutely crushing.


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#338164 - 08/12/10 12:11 PM Re: Hopelessly hopeless, no where to heal [Re: NDbiker]
kidneythis Offline


Registered: 11/08/09
Posts: 1558
USMC97,
You might try the exercise of tying to concieve of what would things be like if you were wrong about the suggestions and possibilities for your problems and some one you have rejected as not "seeing it right" or not "getting it" was right. Don't nit pick my language the intent of the language is clear enough if not exact.

Also you might try to show a bit of humility, your certainty comes across as arrogance and dismissiveness. We can't all be about you all the time these conversations by their nature have to include you trying on ideas that aren't all about you and the issue you brought here to find help with. That in itself is a helpful thing.
I am not telling you to give up your pain just to realize and acknowledge by your behavior that we all have pain and we are trying to help you. Gratitude for our efforts might be a better way to describe what I'm asking for. Not just a thank you but show by your posts and actions and participation with us that you know you are one of us.
No one, not one abuse victim is so different that they are completely outside of the group here.
Maybe offering help to someone else on here with all the experience you have with life I'm sure you can be of assistance to someone.
KT



Edited by kidneythis (08/12/10 12:16 PM)
_________________________
As Mark Twain once quipped, history may not repeat itself, but it does rhyme.

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#338166 - 08/12/10 12:24 PM Re: Hopelessly hopeless, no where to heal [Re: NDbiker]
usmc97 Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 08/02/05
Posts: 437
Loc: Colorado
It took one event to start all of these things, everything else followed. I have not carried these things my whole life, I grew passed it and made a good decent life for myself. None of it was fake and none of it was forced... I know who I am, who I was and what is missing within me now. I can't find how to repair myself from what I live through now, it's not my fault.

_________________________
Semper Fi

The statistics? 1 in 4, 1 in 6?
...then there's me the imaginary number

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#338167 - 08/12/10 12:40 PM Re: Hopelessly hopeless, no where to heal [Re: usmc97]
usmc97 Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 08/02/05
Posts: 437
Loc: Colorado
I'm not going to do every little thing that someone suggests and then lie about the outcome. If I did something 20 times with the same result, I am not going to do it one more time to satisfy someone's request.

My experience does not help others unless they want to hear the truth of what I know for me, "negative" as it may be received, it is honest and real.

I'm sorry that I don't live up to what others expect from a person and that whatever gratitude I try to express is not enough to satisfy someone's ears. I can't please anybody. Another check to mark, it's not looking good.

_________________________
Semper Fi

The statistics? 1 in 4, 1 in 6?
...then there's me the imaginary number

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#338176 - 08/12/10 02:49 PM Re: Hopelessly hopeless, no where to heal [Re: usmc97]
kidneythis Offline


Registered: 11/08/09
Posts: 1558
Originally Posted By: usmc97
I'm not going to do every little thing that someone suggests and then lie about the outcome. If I did something 20 times with the same result, I am not going to do it one more time to satisfy someone's request.

My experience does not help others unless they want to hear the truth of what I know for me, "negative" as it may be received, it is honest and real.

I'm sorry that I don't live up to what others expect from a person and that whatever gratitude I try to express is not enough to satisfy someone's ears. I can't please anybody. Another check to mark, it's not looking good.


USMC97,
Your post is narcisistic and passive aggressive. If you read it the whole thing is about YOU and how YOU can't this or that. You attribute motive intent and meaning where there is none. You claim in an ambiguous way that "gratitude is not enough to satisfy someone's ears". I think that is for "someone" to say. And what does that matter anyway, are you no longer grateful if they aren't satisfied with your offering of gratitude?

You seem so self centered you don't even realize how much so you are. It is a common trait among us, we are all guilty of it at some point.
I think if you'd simply follow the advice of helping others w/o expectation of any result, and taking success as they come w/o complaint, give honest consideration to any negative view of your help, and keeping your work on your problems separate. You will find that the helping of others will teach you unexpected things that will help you solve a lot of the issues that plague you and others don't seem able to offer anything but sympathy for.
Mainly the idea is to not be thinking about yourself or your problems for the entire duration of the time you have set aside to help someone else. It isn't easy at first it may seem impossible. you can succeed at it and I think find solace in being able to assist others.




Edited by kidneythis (08/12/10 02:53 PM)
_________________________
As Mark Twain once quipped, history may not repeat itself, but it does rhyme.

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#338203 - 08/12/10 09:01 PM Re: Hopelessly hopeless, no where to heal [Re: kidneythis]
usmc97 Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 08/02/05
Posts: 437
Loc: Colorado
I have helped and do help others with things, the things I deal with do not go away at any time. You are in the process of doing exactly what I'm talking about. You are assuming things about what I experience and not listening to me, then you judge by the picture you paint of me.

The gratitude thing.... I was getting told that my thank yous and appreciation is not up to par by someone else's standards. I don't need to perform anything for anybody, if I said thanks I meant it. I'm not going to go on and try to be overly gracious for everyone's advice, if I have done something to exhaustion it only takes so long before it becomes a part of the problem.

Narcisistic? Have someone else come along who has done all I have with all the same results and maybe I would have more of a chance to not be seen as a selfish monster my words seem to portray me as... my experience is lived by me, not for others to judge.

Didn't I say it almost always comes to me having to defend myself? If what I go through don't exist to anyone just sign the petition. I don't have to take up space in this world especially if I'm just made up already. How do I belong when nothing I say is acceptable by the standards of those who say I belong.

_________________________
Semper Fi

The statistics? 1 in 4, 1 in 6?
...then there's me the imaginary number

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#338205 - 08/12/10 10:00 PM Re: Hopelessly hopeless, no where to heal [Re: usmc97]
west Offline


Registered: 03/15/10
Posts: 20
Loc: Utah
I'm glad to hear that you have a good doc and some friends to listen.

I guess my reason for bringing up that story is that it is the type of story that most civilians have a hard time wrapping their head around & represents an extreme of abuse & very real fear of being killed, and not quickly. It felt like it may have something in common with your story in terms an experience that is so outside our norms of human behavior that words fail.

My friend's story did involve luring the sadist in with a promise of sex & then turning the tables. I suspect seeing my note the morning after he revealed some very closely held stuff probably scared the bejesus out of him because he did not know, when sober, how much he had revealed, when intoxicated, and didn't ask me. I guess the useful thing for him was that letting some of his story out of the memory banks, even if while intoxicated, had the effect of demonstrating one of the dangers of becoming intoxicated, loosing control of his ability to control his story & I think that's why he sobered up.

Writing works better for some people & talking better for others. I have found both useful. The important part of writing my first letter, for me, was simply casting in concrete exactly what I remembered. Sending it was very good. The least useful and unsatisfactory part of it was my father's response but I've found that his response does not matter very much because if I was hanging on for his response it just means he's still in control, and he is not. At the WoR we had a particular small group the purpose of which was to "Tell our story" and I feel that I made full use of that opportunity. I considered the other guy's stories worse experiences than mine & was so surprised at what I perceived an absence of anger in theirs. I consider anger to be fuel for healing. I was also surprised to realize that I'm grateful to have the knowledge of the identity of my perpetrator, a target for my anger. Some of these guys abuse occurred at so young an age that their memory was imprecise. They likened it to a black hole, you can't see it but you know it's there because of all evidence that surrounds it.

I feel like my experience is small potatoes and "baby steps" compared to yours.

West

_________________________
West
WoR Sequoia 2010

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#338227 - 08/13/10 01:55 AM Re: Hopelessly hopeless, no where to heal [Re: west]
usmc97 Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 08/02/05
Posts: 437
Loc: Colorado
I was killed, forcefully, and purposely more than once by my perps.... I can't even say that without someone trying to turn it into some exaggeration of what they think I could be saying instead of what I am plainly saying. They didn't "try to kill me", they didn't just threaten to kill me, they actually killed me as a part of the torture. That there is unacceptable to the ear, the default is "well you're still here", "you're breathing today". How does that cancel out what's been done? I can't say hardly anything without someone attacking my integrity and expressing their disbelief of what I've gone through and what I deal with now.

I don't do that to people. WHY IS IT OKAY TO DO TO ME!?!?

West,

With all of the stories here, it's all bad.... for you, for me, for others. Everybody is different, went through different things, and handles the things that have happened in their lives differently. No worse, no better..... just different. I've said that for years and included that in many of my posts. I can't conform to what is deemed "normal" around here and I by far can't claim myself to be a "survivor".

My doc works with mostly combat vets and has had a hard time trying to place me, in a lot of ways he wishes I could be placed closer to the POW's he's dealt with but still everything about me is too far from being able to really relate. The best I can do is try and stick close to my friends and hold on to what I know of myself but everyday it's failing and I don't expect miracles. Life is not as precious to me, I've already been killed all is left is to actually be gone for good and not sure when that will be.

_________________________
Semper Fi

The statistics? 1 in 4, 1 in 6?
...then there's me the imaginary number

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#338238 - 08/13/10 08:50 AM Re: Hopelessly hopeless, no where to heal [Re: usmc97]
fhorns Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/10/02
Posts: 666
USMC,
I don't and won't have words that connect with your level of pain. I wanted to say "thank you" for persisting. I think it's AS noble and courageous as those of us just starting to own our own stories too.

Honestly, I too am confused and overwhelmed by the intensity of your posts, as mine was "safer", all "in family".

However, your individual story catches my attention. Again, thank you for...persisting.

(I am consciously aware of shallow remarks, so I'll hold mine. Thank you for that too)

Alfred


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#338253 - 08/13/10 01:42 PM Re: Hopelessly hopeless, no where to heal [Re: usmc97]
kidneythis Offline


Registered: 11/08/09
Posts: 1558
Originally Posted By: usmc97
I have helped and do help others with things, the things I deal with do not go away at any time. You are in the process of doing exactly what I'm talking about. You are assuming things about what I experience and not listening to me, then you judge by the picture you paint of me.

The gratitude thing.... I was getting told that my thank yous and appreciation is not up to par by someone else's standards. I don't need to perform anything for anybody, if I said thanks I meant it. I'm not going to go on and try to be overly gracious for everyone's advice, if I have done something to exhaustion it only takes so long before it becomes a part of the problem.

Narcisistic? Have someone else come along who has done all I have with all the same results and maybe I would have more of a chance to not be seen as a selfish monster my words seem to portray me as... my experience is lived by me, not for others to judge.

Didn't I say it almost always comes to me having to defend myself? If what I go through don't exist to anyone just sign the petition. I don't have to take up space in this world especially if I'm just made up already. How do I belong when nothing I say is acceptable by the standards of those who say I belong.


I'm sorry you see it that way. I have not judged you. I am basing my statements and suggestion on what I see of you.
In my experience someone that is so focussed on themself and stuck in a rut or loop of painful reliving or rumination needs to get out of their own head. Doing service work for others is the best way I know, to just to give their own mind a break.

When one starts this yes some ruminations can pop up but one continues on and turns away from the memory or rumination to engage in helping another and works to focus the mind on that other person and what they need. Sure you may feel an undercurrent of the pain at the best of times but you get to be thinking about something and someone else. That is a good thing for anyone.
Eventually the ruminations and pain do stop interfering with helping/service work. They don't disappear or go away permanently right away but you get a break from them when doing this and in that break some of the joy of life can take place. The simple interaction with the one you are helping, the good feelings one gets from being kind, and so on.
Another benefit of focussing on another's problems and helping them is that your own mind processes things while you are focused on something else and you begin to find new perspectives when you are alone again and thinking.

Over time you will find that the alone time after service work doesn't immediately become a stepping into that pain. You have other thoughts, and other things happen to which you are able to pay attention w/o being distracted by your pain.

Please don't think I minimize you or your story. I cannot comment on it or figure it out to any degree that would be helpful.
But I do see this and I do firmly believe that if you can get yourself to regularly do selfless service work for others on a regular basis and especially when the pain gets bad, that you will be able to find some peace and maybe even improve your inner life.

The fact here is, life just isn't always about us and our pain,and when we forget this the pain becomes worse.

KT

_________________________
As Mark Twain once quipped, history may not repeat itself, but it does rhyme.

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