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#337532 - 08/03/10 12:45 PM How many of you seek validation through women?
fhorns Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/10/02
Posts: 690
I am still stirring from last night's tangle with my wife. I went to see The Last Air Bender with my wife and daughter, the movie refreshed a lot of masculine images, and after the movie I created/continued an ongoing struggle for my wife to validate me as a man. Is this normal with many of you?

I would have continued this in my other posting ("unfinished business") but I emailed my wife the link as an explanation of what I was feeling last night. Was I motivated by guilt? In part. The truth is I'm still wanting her approval, her agreement, her SUPPORT, her understanding. It may be a long shot; I don't know. I don't know what she's capable of for our relationship. I am pissed at her for not being a communicative partner to me right now. She's a waste! F**K!!!

I was bathing this morning (she had gone to work), and I was allowing old feelings to surface. I am just so pissed she won't/can't join me, support me, or encourage me. She's a LOSER in my opinion for being so unavailable.

I am also lonely with this right now.

I'd appreciate any guidance on where/who/how to post this issue in the future. Most of my present conflicts are with her; however, I don't know if it is conflicting with this forum's intent. I stay away from the F&F forum, as I feel it's their safe place. Where/who do you bitch to? I have a counselor from a church, but I don't want to be invalidated by him,, as he's only helping us using a book we bought, and is not a licensed or trained professional. HIS common sense doesn't always apply to my rants, and I feel I need something more appropriate for my issue. Also, I don't often visit chat here because I feel the main use of the room is to allow the guys to just relax in their down time. I already do Wednesday's HC, but...that's once a week. (And I am not alive only one day a week)

Sidenote: I have read "Wild at Heart" by John Eldridge recently, and I am presently reading his sequel "The Way of the Wild Heart". In it he repeats that only men (and GOD) can know, guide, and validate a man and his needs. This is why I'm still here with this today.

Alfred


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#337582 - 08/03/10 10:08 PM Re: How many of you seek validation through women? [Re: fhorns]
pufferfish Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/26/08
Posts: 6875
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: fhorns
I am still stirring from last night's tangle with my wife. I went to see The Last Air Bender with my wife and daughter, the movie refreshed a lot of masculine images, and after the movie I created/continued an ongoing struggle for my wife to validate me as a man. Is this normal with many of you?

That sounds like an interesting movie. I hope to see it. But what bothers me is that a lot of the imagery in there is not something which we can reasonably expect of ourselves or our spouses.

It reminds me a little of when my wife was around and I had unreasonable expectations of her. I wanted to have a tussle with her because something in me thought that was normal. But it wasn't right. She was a loving person and just wanted me to love her and when I would b & m with her it forced her away emotionally cry . Something was so wrong in ME.
Originally Posted By: fhorns

I would have continued this in my other posting ("unfinished business") but I emailed my wife the link as an explanation of what I was feeling last night. Was I motivated by guilt? In part. The truth is I'm still wanting her approval, her agreement, her SUPPORT, her understanding. It may be a long shot; I don't know. I don't know what she's capable of for our relationship. I am pissed at her for not being a communicative partner to me right now. She's a waste! F**K!!!

Alfred, this may be a long shot for me to say this but you are still hurting from your own dysfunctional mom. You are probably projecting expectations of a dysfunctional mom onto your wife. If so your wife can't understand it or react in a way which would satisfy you. She probably feels at a loss. I just don't know how a guy like me or like you who had a dysfunctional (perverse?) mom would be able to expect the right things from a marriage relationship. Try to learn who your wife REALLY is and not who you think she is.

You may even be recapitulating behavior (acting out) some kind of anger your mom might have had after seeing a movie and how you reacted then.
Originally Posted By: fhorns

I was bathing this morning (she had gone to work), and I was allowing old feelings to surface. I am just so pissed she won't/can't join me, support me, or encourage me. She's a LOSER in my opinion for being so unavailable.

Hey, guy, it's OK for the old feelings to surface in the bathtub but you're supposed to let them go on down the drain with the water. Those old toxic feelings you had from a very difficult childhood are not helping you. They are not helping your wife and daughter either. I would guess you and I need to pray that you can get a T who has training in knowing how to defuse your anger.
Originally Posted By: fhorns

I am also lonely with this right now.

Yes you are. You hurt. Your wife also hurts.
Originally Posted By: fhorns

I'd appreciate any guidance on where/who/how to post this issue in the future. Most of my present conflicts are with her; however, I don't know if it is conflicting with this forum's intent. I stay away from the F&F forum, as I feel it's their safe place. Where/who do you bitch to? I have a counselor from a church, but I don't want to be invalidated by him,, as he's only helping us using a book we bought, and is not a licensed or trained professional. HIS common sense doesn't always apply to my rants, and I feel I need something more appropriate for my issue. Also, I don't often visit chat here because I feel the main use of the room is to allow the guys to just relax in their down time. I already do Wednesday's HC, but...that's once a week. (And I am not alive only one day a week)

I've had a lot of those kinds of experiences where you go through a book with the guy at church. I don't want to offer adverse criticism, but they always seem like putting a band-aid on a gaping wound. I know I have had gaping, bleeding wounds and lots of people tried to apply band-aids. It didn't work for me. It's OK to continue that but I think you (and I) need to pray you into a more professional counseling relationship. Does that sound silly? Every time I prayed that the Lord would open up a counselor for me and also the means to pay for it, he answered with a YES. There was always some delay involved.

Originally Posted By: fhorns

Sidenote: I have read "Wild at Heart" by John Eldridge recently, and I am presently reading his sequel "The Way of the Wild Heart". In it he repeats that only men (and GOD) can know, guide, and validate a man and his needs. This is why I'm still here with this today.

I have also read Wild at Heart and I've gone through a group seminar on it. My T really likes it. But I don't quite get it. Maybe because my father was such a wimp, I never quite understand what Eldridge means by this validation. I was intrigued that he and his friends climbed a steep slope and felt validated. But I never "got it". This is an area where my present T and I don't see eye-to-eye. My T loves this Eldridge stuff but to me I think I could fly to the moon and back before it would sink in. I hope this doesn't burst your bubbles.

Allen

pufferfish


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#337587 - 08/03/10 10:38 PM Re: How many of you seek validation through women? [Re: pufferfish]
fhorns Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/10/02
Posts: 690
Allen, WOW. You always say so much, whether in 50 words, or 500. You say a lot that I need to listen to.

It's rich. I appreciate your validation and correction in this, because like you said, it's a gaping wound. Always has been. Thank you for sharing your personal experiences. I'm shocked, not offended, at the truth you share. It's honest, bold, and.....dangerous. Because you admonish me with "are you willing to lose in order to gain?" Thank you for trusting me, honoring me with it. It's what I needed. And it will be painful. Yes, it will be.

Thank you. I mean that.

Alfred


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#337588 - 08/03/10 10:40 PM Re: How many of you seek validation through women? [Re: fhorns]
fhorns Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/10/02
Posts: 690
And please pray for a skilled counselor AND the funds to pay for it. Thank you.

Alfred


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#338487 - 08/17/10 03:09 PM Re: How many of you seek validation through women? [Re: fhorns]
gettingalong Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 06/21/07
Posts: 42
Alred...I can relate to the need for validation from women. And I married someone who has a hard time validating me too. It's very frustrating. The interesting thing for me is that I am surrounded by women at work that affirm and validate me all the time...when I perform to their liking. It's a strange situation. They are raging b*tches when I don't.

I've found that strong women, including my wife, trigger me to respond like a servant.

I'm sorry I can't offer any fixes...I'm with you in the confusion and pain. Hang in there.

gettinalong


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#338605 - 08/18/10 09:36 PM Re: How many of you seek validation through women? [Re: gettingalong]
kidneythis Offline


Registered: 11/08/09
Posts: 1558
The first thing is you have to learn to validate yourself which I think that was implied in the form of your post. Anyway I don't get how to take what my partners act like either. Women are an enigma to me. Yet somehow I have a power over them that I do not see and cannot control, Yet :-]
I think this is because we lost our ability to trust and so we don't know how to read peoples unspoken behaviors, or even spoken ones. I am always waiting for something to cause an emotional response, hoping for a positive response but not knowing or often not understanding what will come. I have only recently learned that people can do this, see what others behavior means, and learn it as they grow up. They also learn how not to go off the deep end when they do not understand what is happening. They wait for understanding to come and take in more information. I would think with a partner I could ask, but I never have. Maybe if I meet someome again I will this time.

I'm so sorry you feel alone with your wife right now. I always hated this feeling and ended many relationships and avoided others because of it. I know you are trying hard I can only suggest you try some agency like St Vincent DePaul for a professional counselor. I know your church means well but clearly they don't have what you need.



Edited by kidneythis (08/18/10 09:37 PM)
_________________________
As Mark Twain once quipped, history may not repeat itself, but it does rhyme.

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#339696 - 09/05/10 11:52 PM Re: How many of you seek validation through women? [Re: kidneythis]
fhorns Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/10/02
Posts: 690
Just to let you guys know, I'm with a professional T right now. I spoke with Pufferfish about the book/church member situation, for it paralleled my situation. I'm with a professional now, but currently....struggling...noticing my own sh** now. Uugggggg.

Alfred


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#443665 - 08/07/13 07:44 PM Re: How many of you seek validation through women? [Re: fhorns]
victor-victim Offline


Registered: 09/27/03
Posts: 3430
Loc: O Kanada
throughout my life, i have allowed women to validate me.

pursuing and chasing and coveting and conquering and displaying and bragging and scoring and touching women was the only thing in the world i cared about.
every girl that was willing to have sex with me was validation that i was desired, needed and wanted, which made me believe i had value.

it may sound sad, but sex with women was the only thing in this world that i considered worth living for.

not even music, which was my career, gave me as much pleasure as women. it was a close second, but without constant sexual contact with females, i would probably have died by now.
music was something i loved to play, and it provided me with females.

i was disgusted by the human race in general and did not like anyone, not even myself.

i could "get along" with people if they were non-threatening cynical skeptics (like me) with arrogant disdain for the majority mainstream.
all the rest of humanity i could barely tolerate, and i would avoid and ignore all normal social contact.

chasing females gave me a superficial connection to society.
i was good at it and i guess that was enough to keep me alive until i figured things out, fell in love, got married, and had children.

so i confess...
for most of my life, women were objects divided into two classes (attractive or nonexistent), and men were obstacles divided into two categories (hazard or menace).

and even though i am a much better person now,
i still catch myself pressuring my wife to validate me.
the difference is... i catch myself.
_________________________
Victor|Victim

War
Love
Poetry

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#443798 - 08/09/13 01:38 AM Re: How many of you seek validation through women? [Re: fhorns]
dark empathy Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/26/07
Posts: 2024
Loc: durham, north england
Firstly Fhorns, I would not take anything seriously from the last airbender film. It is a horrible, horrible travesty of a truly magnificent original animated series, it took all the elements that made that series fantastic, the characters, the world, the philosophy and flushed them straight down the toilet to replace with dull, and sterriotypical imagery.

For example, it took ang and made him into a bald 17 year old martial arts hero, when actualy in the series he is a 12 year old boy with quite literally the weight of the world on his shoulders, who wakes up to find his entire people and world gone, andyet still! manages to bring joy to those around him.

Zuko is another one, in the series he is a genuinely conflicted character, desperately looking for his fathers' aproval even then his father is a sadistic psychopath, and the relationship he has with his uncle is amazing, since Iro supports him through everything and lets him find his own path.

the same pretty much goes for every single character in the series, indeed if you want to see a very human and realistic portrate of vulnerable young male characters who go through a lot, and yet overcome their various conflicts I couldn't recommend the series highly enough, indeed traditional masculine sterriotypes are very much something the series goes against, in fact I might argue that it's a very anti sterriotypical series since the Firelord is about the most traditionally male character in it, and yet all he advocates, strength without compassion, conquest for conquest's sake, and self glorification are precisely the things about the ale sterriotype which any reasonably thinking man would hate.

The series also bucks trends in having a fourteen year old girl as a pprinciple antagonist, and yet making her someone who is cold, powerful and emotionless, oh, and no suggestions of anything s/xual at all, she's just a fire hurling psycho.

So, firstly, I'd actually advise not seeding any authority to last airbender film, it was a truly cringe worthy peace of hollywood clap trap, and really should not even bare the name of such a fantastically writen original series which I'd recommend to anyone. Yes it's animated, but so is half of tv in japan. indeed, I first came across it because my brother is an anime nut and recommended it, not as a kid's series but as an example of very finely written western anime, albeit one with no overly adult content, indeed in many ways it's ained at a similar audience to Harry potter, ie, read by kids, but enjoyed by adults for it's quality.


Regarding the actual question about validation by women, I'm not sure, since though I tend to find myself getting on more easily with women than with men this is simply because men, ---- or at least sterriotypical men, aren't interested in anything I'd be interested in, plus traditional male crude or toilet humour I can find quite triggering due to genophobia. Generally my social skills let me get on with anyone, however what I'm rapidly realizing is that just because I have the ability to get anyone to tell me things and trust me, doesn't make them actually be close.

Yes, within half an hour I can usually have someone telling me what is wrong with their life, someone of either gender, but that means nothing, since it means nothing to most people, I'm always the exception, the one in the corner, the person who "oh yeah, he's great to talk to, but lets forget him when we envite everyone around"

This goes forboth genders though, and generally speaking I treat both the same, indeed I rarely think of women in a s/xually attractive light at all, not unless I do something stupid like fall in love which is always a bad idea.

I have often felt that if I ever could derive an emotional connection with someone while making love, something which was the opposite of what was taken from me, it'd validate something about me. It still hurts that the physiclly closest I've been to anyone was while having my face spat in, and that I've never been kissed.

This would be however exclusively emotional, indeed the thought of just essentially physically doing the act with no content is pretty disgusting to me, ---- one reason why I've never sought out a prostitute, even though my mum did suggest it once as a cure for genophobia.

There's a kind of fascinaton in the idea, something attractive and yet repellent, like "what does eurine taste like?" but though I do find myself thinking about the idea I know how I'd feel afterwards.

In wanting an emotional connection with a partner though I have only ever hurt myself, since manifestly nobody wants that sort of closeness with me. this hurts, and for aa long while I resorted to a resolution that I'd avoid this, ---- however my resolution failed, so I'm still stuck.

Well at least I can listen to others' problems and have them talk to me before they forget me, and there's always my love of music, I just wish I could be content with that.

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