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#336324 - 07/19/10 12:56 AM What is forgiveness?
brokenheart Offline


Registered: 07/14/10
Posts: 12
I am recalling so many past memories and the pain is all coming to the surface again. I was lucky in my day because I started working with psychologists when I was 13 and had thearpy until I was 23. I was given all sort of coping tools to work with. I buried most of the issues of childhood when I turned 18 with hypnosis that induced a form of controlled psychogenic amnesia. It was highly experimental and no proven guarantees it was going to work. I lost my old identiy in a blink of an eye and had to create a 'new persona' in it's place.

I used to pray and get directions from a 'spirit' that came to me in dreams. I worked with runaways for many years and helped them get off the streets. (1978-84) I listened to their 'war stories' and was horrified they had so much trauma hidden away in their childhood. Everyone of them had a 'perp' hidden away and that was what they were running from.

I can't remember all of the 1000's of stories I listened to back then but it was always reduced down to them finding forgiveness in their hearts to help them heal their minds.

I am curious how others would define 'forgiveness' through their own recovery process? I know how I used to define it to those teens when I was involved in a one on one conversation with them.

Strange that with the latest recall of my own childhood - I am struggling to define that again for myself.

brokenheart






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#336364 - 07/19/10 07:19 PM Re: What is forgiveness? [Re: brokenheart]
fhorns Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/10/02
Posts: 666
This a very honest and probing question. I don't feel like I've got courage to forgive others myself right now. (Maybe I'm wrong???)

But I'm writing to let you know I will be watching this post. You said it so simply.

Alfred


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#336390 - 07/20/10 03:32 AM Re: What is forgiveness? [Re: fhorns]
SirVivor Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 07/08/10
Posts: 23
Loc: CA
Great post. I am struggling with the same. My birth family just won't accept my truth and sometimes will actually use my victimization as a weapon against me. It's weird, I still love them and can forgive them but they can't accept the truth and being near them is injurious to me. I want to forgive them but they won't give me that opportunity. I just went through hell with them recently and I just had to cut the relationship off!


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#336659 - 07/23/10 08:30 PM Re: What is forgiveness? [Re: SirVivor]
brokenheart Offline


Registered: 07/14/10
Posts: 12
Originally Posted By: SirVivor
My birth family just won't accept my truth and sometimes will actually use my victimization as a weapon against me.


I had 10 years of therapy from the age of 13 to the age of 23 so I was in the middle of my own treatment when my mind flipped with the dissociative amnesia. My therapists were the ones who recommended I reach out to 'street kid's' because they felt that a big percentage of them were dealing with 'abuse issues.' He felt those in the same battle together were the ones I need to turn.

All those conversations are coming back to mind and this was a common theme among those who spoke to me about their own victimization. It was an 'ugly truth' and no one wanted to deal with it directly. I shocked me how many victims were actually punished for speaking the truth and how that was used against them in many different ways.

My own pscyologists were trained to deal with the 'ugly truth' and look it in the eye but they told me (warned me actually) that if I tried to talk to normal minds - it was going to be to shocking for those without that experience to deal with. It was offensive to them because they had lived a sheltered life and would not allow their minds to have apathy toward the victim in the case because it required them putting their selves in the situation in a way.

Strange as it may seem - my psychologist said that on a mental level - if I forced my 'truth and reality' on a mind who wasn't prepared to deal with the ugly nature of it - it would be a form of abuse toward them and their minds. They would defend their own minds from that 'shocking element' and react to it to defend themselves from the horror of the topic.

That is why I am so grateful for this forum that allows us a chance to support one another and being to speak with those who are prepared to deal with the 'dark nature' so we can find the light we need to heal from it.

Thanks for sharing your own story.

We are not alone.

DK


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#336679 - 07/24/10 02:00 AM Re: What is forgiveness? [Re: fhorns]
brokenheart Offline


Registered: 07/14/10
Posts: 12
Originally Posted By: fhorns
I don't feel like I've got courage to forgive others myself right now. (Maybe I'm wrong???)


Hi Alfred,
This was actually my point. I found some quotes that support the theme I followed back in the early 80's. In Aramaic forgive means to restore love by canceling the cause of its loss.

Quote:
"Holding anger is a poison. It eats you from the inside. We think that hating is a weapon that attacks the person who harmed us. But hatred is a curved blade. And the harm we do, we do to ourselves."
Mitch Albom, The Five People You Meet in Heaven

Quote:
To forgive is to let go. In Aramaic the word is 'shbag.' It means to cancel, to let go, to untie. This roughly translates to a tool for changing a reality in your mind. The meaning is much richer in Aramaic. If I take full responsibility for what is in my mind and heart, I then have the opportunity to clear my mind of resentments, hurts, grudges, and wrongs. It has been said that forgiveness is giving up the hope that the past could be any different. If I forgive, I have the opportunity to let go of disruptive thoughts and feelings. No easy task for most of us. But we can practice.
Source: Forgive

Quote:
Once you understand True Forgiveness as taught in Aramaic you will never 'forgive' another again! You can't forgive anyone else— True Forgiveness has to do with changing the reality triggered in your mind by another, not letting them off the hook for doing it. It is this dynamic and this dynamic ALONE that frees the mind of its hostility and allows us to follow the First Law of human existence—the maintenance of the condition of Love."
Source: Ancient Wisdom

Quote:
"In Aramaic , Forgive means to cancel. The minute you loosened your grip on your need for them to be perfect, in effect, you canceled your need for that perfection. The result of that action is your 'parent' file opened and the abuse, pain and resentment it contained began to release. This is True Forgiveness in Aramaic , certainly a radically different action than letting them off the hook . As the cloud over your perception of them lifted, a painful reality was in process of being forgiven and you can now see them more realistically."

"Your Forgiveness did not change the past , but it changed a reality in your mind about the past . There is no reason why the pain of old realities should be carried inside of us.
Source Ancient Wisdom


Restore - Recovery.

Maybe this is a concept my therapist set me up to understand, or maybe it was coming to me in dreams for the sake of my own prayers. I can't recall exactly. But to me - it wasn't something we could give to someone else and not something that was meant for us to wrestle with to give our 'abusers.' It was designed to be something we give ourselves. To me - it was accepting that we couldn't turn back time and undo the past. We had to live with it and give ourselves back what we are owed from it.

Love.

Hate, anger, resentments, torment and all the rest was just us allowing the 'abuse' to continue in our own minds. To me, forgiveness was about staking the claim in my own mind and retaking territory that was taken from me in a brutal and hostile attack. It was about me reclaiming my own mind and filling it back up with loving thoughts for myself, life, others and my future.

Curious to other thoughts on this ancient concept of forgivness and how it isn't something we give the 'wrongdoer' as much as it is something we give ourselves.

brokenheart


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#336702 - 07/24/10 10:27 AM Re: What is forgiveness? [Re: brokenheart]
fhorns Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/10/02
Posts: 666
You've processed a lot over time. I'm not exactly in the same spot,...but I appreciate your focus, your intent, in writing this. Not Forgiving, I know now, is only hurting me. It's a lifetime habit from thinking and believing "it's my fault".

In writing this, you made me think, and I'm thinking now. Thank you for being so objective in it. It's easier to handle (much easier) than from the perspective of guilt, shame, or fear. Thank you for sharing all your knowledge.

Again, thank you.

Alfred


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#336703 - 07/24/10 10:45 AM Re: What is forgiveness? [Re: fhorns]
Freedom49 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 12/30/07
Posts: 2723
Loc: Washington State
I hate this topic. For obvious reasons but one of the things I have learned is that forgiveness is not a one time boom and done thing. It is continuous. 70x7. Each time it/he comes up in my mind I must make the choice to do it right then again. It does get easier over time and maybe that is the point. We think because God accepted the sacrifice of Christ one time in history that is all we must do but that is not correct. He had been doing that thousands of years each time a bull or goat was offered.

We too, each time the memory is offered to us we must forgive again and as we do it changes not only us but I think the memory also taking the teeth out of it some.

That is my take anyway.

r


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#336724 - 07/24/10 04:17 PM Re: What is forgiveness? [Re: Freedom49]
michael banks Offline


Registered: 06/12/08
Posts: 1755
Loc: Mojave Desert, Ca
Forgiveness is a gift for myself.... a reprieve from the anger and hate that I felt toward my perp which hurt no one but myself....

Mike

_________________________
To own one's shadow is the highest moral act of a human.
-Robert Johnson-

"IT ought never be forgotten that the past is the parent of the future" John C. Calhoun

WOR Alumni Sequoia 2009

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#336780 - 07/25/10 10:05 AM Re: What is forgiveness? [Re: michael banks]
michael Joseph Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 03/11/01
Posts: 2719
Loc: Virginia
forgivness has nothing to do with the perp at all

they do not even need to know you did it

it has to do with what is in your heart

what you are holding on to or letting go of

sometimes people think you are letting them get away

with what was done, they know what they did, they have to live

with that. What forgiveness allows is your freedom for the

hate you hold against them. You can be stubborn and hang on,

but that may do evem more damage to you and those around you.

And that allows the perp to hurt you more and more each day

forward. It is more important to live life more fully and love

those around you even more.

Michael Joseph

_________________________
Standing together is so much better than hiding in the dark.
***I am a three time WoR Retreat Alumni***
The Round Table, Men's CSA Group, Monday 7:30pm CST, MaleSurvivor Chat

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#336922 - 07/26/10 04:03 PM Re: What is forgiveness? [Re: Freedom49]
brokenheart Offline


Registered: 07/14/10
Posts: 12
Originally Posted By: Freedom49
We too, each time the memory is offered to us we must forgive again and as we do it changes not only us but I think the memory also taking the teeth out of it some.



We too, each time the memory is offered to us we must forgive again and as we do it changes not only us but I think the memory also taking the teeth out of it some.

Yes. This was the point of my original post. All these years later, the memories of my past hurts, pains and various assaults have came to the surface again – and even through I felt I forgave in the proper and true sense – and gave myself the healing I needed from that wound and injury – here is all over again and I steal have to heal myself again. I had other instances were I felt injured aside from it being a case of lust. My girlfriend was shot and murdered when I was 20. I had to learn to heal myself from that hurt, pain, anger and hate as well. I was able to bury that memory and go on with my life. It was easier to learn ‘forgiveness’ with a murderer than it is to forgive the ‘crime’ (sin) of lust that is forced upon us.

My own personal sexual assault may seem mild to some. It did back when it happened to me. I was 13 and was forced upon by a gang of older girls. (15-19) One was a married woman with a husband and a child. It was mild in the sense that they gave me hickeys and only touched my genitals. I was against my will and it put a dirty feeling inside of me that didn’t go away. They had held me down while I was crying and screaming with pain. (I had a cardiac condition and they didn’t realize that any pain inflicted on me would have a psychological effect – especially mixed with any sexual feelings.) It was very hard for others to accept it had been molestation because it involved 5 girls with a young teen. They felt that was every boy’s fantasy.

4 years ago – that old and painful memory resurfaced again after years of being hidden. It was like that knife was stuck inside my heart all over again. This time it was worse because I could look back and see how that one incident had such a dramatic effect on the rest of my life. (I am 50 now.)

When the girls found out that the attack led to a nervous breakdown – and word got around that I felt violated and hurt – they were in tears and begging me to forgive them. I couldn’t back then. They asked what they could do to make it up to me and I asked them to never look me in the eye again. If they did see me – they had to duck their head in shame and cross the street. I wanted them to bear the shame for what they did and they all complied. I just wanted them to know what they did to me was wrong and I got that. I wasn’t going to bear their shame and guilt inside of me. I felt they should wear that as a ‘badge’ of honor. I did forgive – not for the sake of their minds as much as for my own. I told the girls – they had to seek their own forgiveness from God – because it wasn’t for me to give them.

My healing was in knowing that they owned up to their own guilt, shame, pain and that did hurt them. For me – it is a matter of looking back now and knowing we all six had hard lessons to learn together.

That was an important part of my own recovery. Forgiveness wasn’t about ‘letting them off the hook’ and looking the other way about the wrong they did to me – as well as the wrong they did to themselves.

It was investigated by the authorities and they felt it wasn’t a case that needed to be brought into the court system. Instead – it was turned over to the ‘system of justice’ on the schoolyard. My peers stood with me and shunned them for a while. I was in charge of when they had been shunned enough. When I felt they had learned their lesson – I nodded my head and the rest of the class went back to normal but I told them that we couldn’t ever be friends but I promised them I would never harbor or hold ill-will feelings against them.

So – I got my ‘sense of justice’ and my forgiveness was for me. I knew enough at a young age that they too were in the same boat as me and where seeking their own forgiveness.

I was lucky in many ways. My case became a topic of discussion on the schoolyards at three schools. It brought awareness to many minds and I had many other guys come and speak to me about their own hurt, pain and some form of sexual activity forced upon them. So – I learned in 1974 that it was a silent epidemic that usually led many young males to suffer in silence. I had just been led to believe it was something that went on in silence in my own home.

So – even in the best case scenario – where we walked away with all the wounds healed and a fair system of justice was served – 30 years later when that memory came back – it was like a knife was used to open those old wounds again with salt being poured onto it and I had to learn to forgive again – to spare myself that pit of misery with that anger, hate, guilt, shame and hurt that comes with the memories.

I do like your parable. Forgiveness is like a dentist who takes the teeth out of the memory – and turns it into a ‘soft nibble’.

brokenheart


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#336929 - 07/26/10 04:42 PM Re: What is forgiveness? [Re: fhorns]
brokenheart Offline


Registered: 07/14/10
Posts: 12
Originally Posted By: fhorns
In writing this, you made me think, and I'm thinking now. Thank you for being so objective in it. It's easier to handle (much easier) than from the perspective of guilt, shame, or fear.


Hi Alfred,
I felt my case of abuse at the age of 13-14 put me in the spotlight and it did get attention - and from that - I did get a sense of justice. To me, justice was 'righting a wrong' and I felt that had been accomplished in my case. For the rest of my school days - I was constantly seeking out others who had been assaulted and trying to help them with their own personal case. It was very hard for them because of what you state. It was hard for them to lift that sense of 'shame, guilt and fear' from them. Mainly the fear because I learned there was such a stigma attached to this sort of 'abuse.' (Even I got some of that flak from some of the classmates.) Sort of an ugly truth no one wanted to look at. Sex was supposed to be good - especially in our teen years.

I was in contact with the older girls who had assulted me and I wanted to know what gave them the idea that what they had done to me was good. What I got back from all five of them was sort of shocking. Each one of them had been forced upon by a guy in their past. It was mild compared to some - but they had either a kiss stolen form them, a grab forced upon them, or in the case of one girl - an actual sexual assault that never got reported.

All five of them were victims of some sort of abuse themselves. One told me,

"We thought guys liked that because they are always doing it to the girls and getting away with it. We just lost control of our senses and felt it was our revenge on all the guys who had taken advantage of us in our past."

The cycle of abuse repeating itself. It didn't excuse what they did but it gave me insight to why they did it. It always gave me every reason to demand they learn a lesson for the sake of all there schools that were involved in the 'schoolyard' justice. Forcing 'sexual lust' on another for any reason was wrong.

Those of us who get caught up in that endless cycle had to break it and rid ourselves of that 'senseless sense of guilt, shame and fear.' Fear is what kept many locked away in a silent closet - feeding a vicious cycle of hate, anger and pain that never goes away.

Because my case was known about in the halls of my school as well as the offices and teachers lounge - private sessions at the local university was set up for me. (1973) This was rare because me calling such attention to this problem was rare. So I got to spend many years talking to trained, licensed professionals who were studying such cases after they reached the adult stage of life. They had access to the statistics at that time. They told me that I was probably not going to end up as one of the negative statistics because usually the pattern was for children who are abused - grow up to form abusive relationship themselves. With their wives or through other means. I was getting a chance to talk about and process my feelings.

At the time - the epidemic was so silent - my psychologists didn't know how to treat it - so they set me up with the principles in a 12 step program which was inspired by Dr. Carl Jung. (AA.) They felt that children who did suffer abuse issues in silence usually went on to abuse alcoholic or drugs as well.

As a teenager - they told me to search out other victims and look for fellowship with them - because they were the only ones in the world who were going to relate to my injuries. Just like alcoholics - we are never going to be able to change the fact that we were victims of sexual abuse. Instead of changing it - we had to learn to live with it.

A part of that recovery is - to reach out to 'fellow suffers' with a positive message of hope that recovery is possible.

Hopefully - I have touched you with that with a part of that message.

brokenheart


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#337329 - 07/31/10 02:01 PM Re: What is forgiveness? [Re: brokenheart]
fhorns Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/10/02
Posts: 666
Brokenheart,
I've finally got a chance to feel safe, as I've been out of state with relatives. (I'm in a isolated shack with noone home right now).

Fear...... Yes. All the time. I carry it, and actually feeling it makes me freer than denying it. I've stuffed it and other feelings all my life. In the last 10 years I've noticed people's odd(?) reactions to me, and since it's pretty common, I've wondered "Why?" My fear. I carry it. People see it, feel it, and thus usually back off. I'm communicating "I don't feel you're safe", and somehow, I'm encouraging them to leave. And either I or they do. I was reading something yesterday that confirmed this, and I'll post the link below.

For example, yesterday I was a neighbor's house up here. I had gotten to know a younger peer here last summer, and he's been tenacious about maintaining this relationship, as he's disabled and also living with his disabled father. As for me, fear often surfaces inside. While he and I were talking to his father in the room, I was near the friend physically for about 30 seconds. What's weird is that, for about that same time, my mind switched into a 5 year old mode. Instantly, I felt "drawn" to be held or touched by him, as that was what had equalled a relationship for me growing up. I felt fearful, and only stayed another 20 minutes. This wasn't a sexuality issue, but more of an old "normal relationship" issue. My brother was molested by a church member before he started experimenting with me. That went on with me for a few years, thus...this was normal. It's severely limited my relationships with guys, because some part of me was awake enough to know I was violated.

However, part of me wants to feel safer now. Maybe I'm not "forgiving" yet because I am still looking at safety issues for myself. Maybe. This was somewhat off-topic from forgiveness, but maybe..this is where I am right now. I'm both asking and wondering.

And finally Brokenheart, thanks for sharing your story. It's giving me fuel to share mine more. Really, thank you.

Alfred

P.S. Do people sometimes feel guilty for wanting to be safe? As I was writing and holding onto the need for safety, a little guilt surfaced. Is this normal?

P.P.S. This is the link I was reading yesterday. It's a T's experience using EFT with a traumatized man. His major need: safety. It's very well written and very insightful, IMO.

www.eftfree.net/2010/04/24/the-watcher-on-the-hill/


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#337427 - 08/01/10 11:42 PM Re: What is forgiveness? [Re: fhorns]
brokenheart Offline


Registered: 07/14/10
Posts: 12
Originally Posted By: fhorns
However, part of me wants to feel safer now. Maybe I'm not "forgiving" yet because I am still looking at safety issues for myself. Maybe. This was somewhat off-topic from forgiveness, but maybe..this is where I am right now. I'm both asking and wondering.


I have been going over my own 'traumatic' experiences and how psychologists explained their view of life - from their case studies. I was a victim of a medical condition and it would stop my heart in a very violent manner. For that reason - I was more of a 'victim of circumstances' due to the fact it was a medical condition. My Doctors told my parents it (heart seizures) carried the equivalent of someone blasting a double barrel shotgun into my chest on a bi-weekly basis. It was horrible.

The Doctors told me that being born into a human body - started out with trauma. That is why babies cry - due to the trauma. Our Moms hold us and nurture us with love to heal us from that trauma and just when we get comfortable - another trauma surfaces when the hunger pains hit our stomachs. We cry again from the trauma. We get our needs fed to us and we settle in until another trauma hits us and we have a mess in our diapers. From day one - we (as humans) are trying to balance out the two sides of the coin. Trauma and it's impact us physically, emotionally and mentally. We usually find our cure for those small traumas with a nurturing hand and love.

After we become adults - the trauma's never end. But usually we learn to bounce back and heal ourselves with a form of love that helps us nurse the 'inner wounds' back to health again.

I feel that those who are injuried in silence (or hidden from view of others) don't get the chance to properly treat that trauma when it occurs - and - hidden away in secrecy - it grows out of proportion because instead of feeding ourselves the love required to heal - we can feed the very 'fears, guilt, shame, pain and hurt' to continue the after effects of the abuse for years to come.

Fear is a perfectly nature emotion and it required to keep us safe in the future. But like all emotions - it can grow out of proportion and become an 'unhealthy' emotion. What it requires is that 'healthy' balance of love to bring it back into check. It may not happen overnight (as we would like) but taking one step at a time in the right direction - will bring you closer to that healthy balance again.

As children - we depend on others to provide that love needed. As adults - we have to become our own 'caregivers' and look for the responsible method to get the right nurturing to that inner and injured child.

The main person you have to learn to trust again - is yourself.

Going through and sorting out that 'guilt' is a process. You have to look at the 'guilt' as sort of tangled web that is trying to keep you feeding all the negative emotions involved. So - it is probably normal in the road to recovery. I feel it is important to look at that guilt - process it and let go of it in a healthy way.

I am glad you have found a safe forum to reach out to others and share. I feel that is a very important process in the recovery road. I hope you continue to have the courage to share and sort through your emotions and find the love that you need and deserve.

brokenheart


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#337695 - 08/05/10 12:35 PM Re: What is forgiveness? [Re: brokenheart]
somerandomguy Offline


Registered: 03/05/10
Posts: 10
Loc: USA
I am continually torn between feeling like forgiveness is a waste of time and desperately wanting to forgive.

If I let the flame of anger burn out, it feels like there will be nothing left in my life. But everyone says that forgiveness brings peace. I don't know what to think.

In the end, living with my anger is much, much easier, so I suppose that's my choice.


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#337698 - 08/05/10 12:44 PM Re: What is forgiveness? [Re: somerandomguy]
FormerTexan Offline
Site Administrator
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 09/12/04
Posts: 11053
Loc: Denver, CO
I believe forgiveness does bring peace. It's more for me than the debtor. It allows me to release a debt I cannot collect. It does not excuse the perpetrator for what they have done. In my case, one perp is dead, so how could I possibly collect anyway?

Forgiveness does not invalidate valid hurt and anger either. Those legitimate emotions need to be felt and expressed.

_________________________
List of things ain't nobody got time for:

1. That


If I could meet myself as a boy...

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#340941 - 09/27/10 01:35 PM Re: What is forgiveness? [Re: FormerTexan]
Avery46 Offline


Registered: 09/23/10
Posts: 1243
Loc: USA
Forgiveness is MERCY for my soul. It is a letting go of the shame I have carried that belongs to the monster. It took me until this year to have enough strength and knowledge to put the shame where it belongs.

It is a continous act of Mercy. It is letting go of the affects of the abuse.

It is being free for me to be me.

A

_________________________
aka DJsport

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#341122 - 09/29/10 08:33 PM Re: What is forgiveness? [Re: brokenheart]
brokenheart Offline


Registered: 07/14/10
Posts: 12



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#344457 - 11/08/10 03:58 AM Re: What is forgiveness? [Re: brokenheart]
john38 Offline


Registered: 10/21/10
Posts: 90
Loc: Pasadena CA
For me forgiveness is a journey. Where I'm at at this point in my recovery (16 years and counting) is not worrying about forgiveness of my perps. The chief one that I've had to work to forgive is myself, and that act of forgiveness every time I behave like a f'd up survivor is a godsend. I deserve love, regardless of what mistakes I make because in my family or origin no one taught me how to behave in an emotionally healthy manner--all I was taught was dysfunction.

With regards to the anger/resentment piece, I simply don't sweat it or try to contol it any more. Instead, I let the anger out. I have every right to be angry when some event triggers my PTSD and puts me right back into that small body's profoundly painful violation. What was done was wrong. When I do experience anger, I don't go through it alone. I write; I call a survivor friend; I go to an anger release Survivors of Incest Anonymous support group meeting. I let it go, and get love for myself. Every time I let go of anger, which many psychologists feel is a hybrid emotion that covers over grief and fear, I immediately go to grief and sadness. During my abuse, and afterward, there was no one to console me. So by naming and expressing my anger when it comes up, I give over to my grief, usually cry, and here's the wonderful part, allow myself to be consoled by my Maker, by other safe others (survivor friends), and ultimately by myself. What I feel is what I feel. It's my birthright to be a feeling human being. I don't want to be a male who is cut off from his emotions because when I cut them off, I strip myself away from all the joy, hope, and beauty of this life.

Some people, myself included earlier in recovery, seem to go to forgiveness in order to try to hop over repressed emotions that they don't want to do. Mind you,it's just my belief, but I don't truly think I can forgive if I don't allow myself to feel first.

I guess the last thing I want to say about this topic is that I've done hundreds of pages of journaling about my perps to try and understand them, and get a sense of how they could have abused the beautiful child that I was. What I ultimately arrived at via that process was this: I gave my perps back their humanity. I allowed them to be human beings again and in the process gave myself back my humanity. I realized my perps had probably been abused which is why they became abusers. Thus what they did to me wasn't about me, it was about them and their inability to acknowledge their pain, anger, terror and helplessness. As a consequence, I was able to let them go, much like the act of forgiveness is supposed to allow one to do. Most importantly, I was able to reclaim all of me, even the parts that I thought they had killed.

Yes, forgiveness is an important topic. And like I said, I don't worry about forgiving my perps any more, besides they never came to me to ask for forgiveness nor to make amends. What's most important is that I learned to forgive myself for being a victim and responding like sexual abuse victim. When I did that, I was able to finally move on.

John+



Edited by john38 (11/08/10 04:40 PM)
_________________________
Just for today I will treat myself with respect, compassion and acceptance.

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#353590 - 02/13/11 11:13 PM Re: What is forgiveness? [Re: brokenheart]
RecoveryReady1 Offline


Registered: 12/05/10
Posts: 433
Very much appreicate the depth and insight in your post....

Something that comes to mind for me is that I have never been

able to think myself, force myself, or reward myself into
forgiveness...

I get the sense that there is a part of me that is hanging on

and without actually getting to that part of myself and allowing

that part to be heard and validated...Without actually reaching

this part....it's just surface (bandage) and will continue to

come back....In this way, it's a process, getting to that part

and

having it feel safe enough and to have the patience to not

cooerse it or force it....

I find that without a spiritual belief it is

difficult to have that shift with that part of us ......

and with the anger (lack of forgiveness) it is

hard to have a spiritual base....

It takes patience and willingness to be in the process.


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#353745 - 02/15/11 01:00 PM Re: What is forgiveness? [Re: RecoveryReady1]
Morning Star Offline
Member

Registered: 12/21/04
Posts: 1124
Loc: Home
CSA is often and can be describes using the classical term - the "Dark Night of the Soul", because it is stripping down of not just our sense of justice and reasoning but also our power structure, leaving us feeling powerless and filled with a deep sense of injustice. The way out as was the case of the author of this medieval work was prayer, for being freed from his own anger and sense of injustice as he found himself being consumed it...his work over the centuries has remained a spiritual classic as it provides the framework and vocabulary for our journey back home to the castle, because it teaches us about the imperative of swimming through the moat first, which demands that we drop the heaviness of the reasoning mind, lest we would sink ...or refuse to step on to the drawbridge or a helping that is stretched our way...
We know the author today, as St. John of Cross! A recent book that employs this work is "Defy Gravity" by Caroline Myss. Though previously it has been adjudged as an essential passage to the centre of our soul by numerous mystical authors including Evelyn Underhill's "Mysticism" (1911), so go explore...your soul awaits your return home! This is not a recovery path rather a pilgrimage, and each moment of it is sacred!....God resides in you as you; do not look anywhere but be still and step into the resplendent kingdom within...!

_________________________
~ It's over!...Let go of Thy Past, Remember Thy Self ~

Why Don't People Heal, by Caroline Myss; 30 days to clean up your vibrations - Abraham-Hicks

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#353756 - 02/15/11 02:24 PM Re: What is forgiveness? [Re: Morning Star]
RecoveryReady1 Offline


Registered: 12/05/10
Posts: 433
Yes I get it, and I have changed my view on forgiveness...Nothing has made more sense to me or given this much hope in a very long time....Thank You.
All the best
and Lotsa love
steve


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#353806 - 02/15/11 10:44 PM Re: What is forgiveness? [Re: RecoveryReady1]
Morning Star Offline
Member

Registered: 12/21/04
Posts: 1124
Loc: Home
Thank You! because to see a soul shine once again is a gift to witness indeed!... smile

_________________________
~ It's over!...Let go of Thy Past, Remember Thy Self ~

Why Don't People Heal, by Caroline Myss; 30 days to clean up your vibrations - Abraham-Hicks

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