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#336096 - 07/15/10 09:46 AM And what about the perp ?
Gongas Offline


Registered: 03/23/09
Posts: 21
Loc: Europe
My brother in law told me some time ago that he was abused by older brother in law for what seems like an awful lot of time. He said it started when he was about 7/8. Older brother is 9 years older. Apparently it went until younger brother was approx 22; by then older BIL had already married and living with his wife(!). Younger BIL said that even then, older BIL came to his parents' house once in a while just to have sex with him ....
Then, apparently younger BIL put an end to it.
I guess at some time the abuse became something of a (homosexual and incestuous) consensual relationship because as I see it, after a certain age there is no way older BIL could force himself on to younger BIL. Am I seeing things correctly?
Anyway, my question is this: older BIL is extremely close to our family (my husband) and my two – now adult – children. He is like our best friend, always has. While younger BIL is admittedly bisexual, there has never been any doubt (not that we know of) about older BIL’s sexuality. He is a macho through and through.
He is the son his parents love best, his children absolutely adore him and so do his friends and everyone around him.
All of this seems absurd to me knowing what I know now.
I have no doubt that younger BIL was telling me the truth so, what kind of person is older BIL really after all? As I see it he must be severely “damaged” up in the head, but how is it possible it just doesn’t show??
And since he never received any counselling himself (unlike younger BIL who actively sought counselling), is one to assume that he is still the same guy that abused his younger brother for over 14 years or has he changed?
And why did he pick younger brother instead of, say, my husband who is closer to his age and has always been his best friend??
Does any of this make sense to you?


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#336106 - 07/15/10 02:04 PM Re: And what about the perp ? [Re: Gongas]
wayne9 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/14/08
Posts: 161
Loc: alabama
Gongas, my thoughts on this would be looking at my perp...he seems to live a normal life. He is married, as children, and grandchildren. Nothing about his character would lead anyone to believe he would have ever done this. I sometimes wonder has he done it with anyone else or was it just me for what ever reason I don't know.


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#336110 - 07/15/10 03:10 PM Re: And what about the perp ? [Re: wayne9]
kidneythis Offline


Registered: 11/08/09
Posts: 1558
I think the proper term is psychopath.

_________________________
As Mark Twain once quipped, history may not repeat itself, but it does rhyme.

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#336129 - 07/15/10 08:16 PM Re: And what about the perp ? [Re: kidneythis]
Castle Offline


Registered: 10/03/09
Posts: 733
Loc: NJ
"I guess at some time the abuse became something of a (homosexual and incestuous) consensual relationship because as I see it, after a certain age there is no way older BIL could force himself on to younger BIL. Am I seeing things correctly?"

No, your seeing it completly wrong.

_________________________

My posts can self destruct at any time..read them while you can.

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#336138 - 07/16/10 12:05 AM Re: And what about the perp ? [Re: Castle]
WalkingSouth Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/30/05
Posts: 16265
I think Castle is correct. The problem lies in the fact that the victimization begins sometimes at such an early age. The perpetrator establishes a kind of power over the victim that may times lasts into their adult years. In such cases there's nothing about it that can be considered anything but abusive because of the power the stronger of the individuals still holds over the other.

_________________________
“Life’s journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting ‘Holy ____…! What a ride!’” ~Hunter S. Thompson

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#336139 - 07/16/10 12:16 AM Re: And what about the perp ? [Re: WalkingSouth]
calv Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 04/27/10
Posts: 45
Loc: seattle
Things ain't always what they appear!

_________________________
“When the Japanese mend broken objects, they aggrandize the damage by filling the cracks with gold. They believe that when something’s suffered damage and has a history it becomes more beautiful.” Barbara Bloom

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#336158 - 07/16/10 12:34 PM Re: And what about the perp ? [Re: calv]
sono Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 07/19/09
Posts: 1069
I'd like to echo John aka Walkingsouth's statement...it is quite true. I'd also suggest that you consider all of the instances of serial molesters, rapists, murderers and the like and that moment when they are caught...TV interviews with the neighbors, family and friends...it's always the same thing..."He seemed so nice....we had no idea...I can't imagine that...he was just a great guy" This guy obviously has an ability to compartmentalize on a grand scale.

Rarely do these kind of power/sex tendencies just go away with these types. I don't want to give you too much to think about, but since you are asking us here, you might consider who his victims might have been since your brother in law put an end to it.

Oh, and macho means nothing...absolutely nothing other than it's a good cover if one is so inclined to need one.

good luck

_________________________
the family
the perp

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#336159 - 07/16/10 12:52 PM Re: And what about the perp ? [Re: sono]
kidneythis Offline


Registered: 11/08/09
Posts: 1558
That got past me until Castle posted. I am also adding my vote to that truth.

_________________________
As Mark Twain once quipped, history may not repeat itself, but it does rhyme.

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#336176 - 07/16/10 03:47 PM Re: And what about the perp ? [Re: Gongas]
Pattycakes Offline


Registered: 05/23/10
Posts: 109
Loc: Canada
Hi Gongas,

I'd like to add my two cents to this thread...

Quote:
And why did he pick younger brother instead of, say, my husband who is closer to his age and has always been his best friend??


I'd like to say that sexual abuse is not about sex. It's about power over somebody, over a child. The oldest brother chose the youngest, probably because he was the easiest to manipulate. The second brother, your husband, would probably have been too old to trick into keeping the abuse a secret.

Oh, and may I add that many, many criminals like your brother-in-law are two faced. There is no way anyone would know just by looking at him. Just the same as not knowing if someone is right or left handed by looking at them.

I'm happy your younger brother-in-law is seeking therapy. I wish him all the best in his recovery. It must be so hard for him ...

Sincerely,
Pattycakes

_________________________
If you judge people, you have no time to love them.-Mother Theresa




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#336185 - 07/16/10 05:48 PM Re: And what about the perp ? [Re: Gongas]
Mulligan Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 06/15/10
Posts: 94
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: Gongas
I guess at some time the abuse became something of a (homosexual and incestuous) consensual relationship because as I see it, after a certain age there is no way older BIL could force himself on to younger BIL. Am I seeing things correctly?


Physically speaking you may be right, younger brother in law might have been larger, stronger, etc and could have withstood physical advancments from older BIL. However your highly mentally ill older brother in law taught your younger brother in law how to be a victim. Thats why your older brother in law should bear the title "Sexual Predator" and be listed on a registry somewhere. Chances are pretty great there are more victims than you are aware of.

It is very easy to throw out the term "consensual" when you have never been mentally, physically, sexually, and emotionally abused over a long period of time. People with your brand of logic are what breads silence and shame. Which then puts in place an environment for this sickness to thrive.

And as far as this making any sense, it seems as though it might be out of a text book.

Sorry for being so abrupt. I know this can be mentally mind blowing for people who have no previous experience dealing with this type of evil.





Edited by Mulligan (07/16/10 05:49 PM)
Edit Reason: spelling
_________________________
Because I never give up the fight!

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#336256 - 07/18/10 07:36 AM Re: And what about the perp ? [Re: Mulligan]
givemestrength Offline


Registered: 10/11/09
Posts: 26
Gongas,

I'm sorry that you are experiencing and having to ask these questions but I'm glad you're here asking them because it shows you are trying to be helpful and understand your (their situation).

As for your consensual/ homosexual comment you may not realise (or perhaps do now) that this statement is actually quite offensive to the male survivors here. However, I think that by asking it and receiving appropriate and informed responses such as walkingsouth's and sono's it's a really good way to start to gain some understanding.

As for your personal experience with the perpetrator and the state of disbelief you find yourself in...that's exactly how he wants you to see him. He is a master in manipulation and the macho "nice guy" facade that he projects is one of the tactics he's used to allow him to get away with what he has for so long (this along with the other perpetrator tactics which others are much more qualified to describe).

I encourage you to take the time to learn more about the effects of csa and the tactics of perpetrators. Know this now-- the truth can be much more painful/shocking/confronting than what we'd like to believe. But it's much better (in my opinion) than remaining ignorant and burying our heads in the sand.


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#336258 - 07/18/10 08:52 AM Re: And what about the perp ? [Re: Mulligan]
Gongas Offline


Registered: 03/23/09
Posts: 21
Loc: Europe
No, no, no, please don't apologize for being blunt. I do realise I don't know or understand the first thing about this.

You see, I am very glad younger BIL opened up to me with his story, because it made me understood tons of things about him I had never understood. But now there is this huge loose end of someone whom we have always loved and thought the world of, who is my husband's business partner, the godfather of my own children, with their very same blood flowing through his veins, someone who, for better or for words will always be such a huge chunk of our lives. And now I am being told this person is the most despicable creature and I am not sure how to handle this.

I guess I need to have a scrap of hope that he may have changed somewhere along the way, since, after all, he and younger BIL now seem to be quite close (at least the animosity is gone ...).

By the way, sorry about my ignorance, but what do you mean by sexual predator?
You know, this is exactly the word younger BIL used when referring to older BIL ...
I never undesrtood what he meant.


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#336259 - 07/18/10 08:54 AM Re: And what about the perp ? [Re: Gongas]
Gongas Offline


Registered: 03/23/09
Posts: 21
Loc: Europe
Sorry, this reply was for Mulligan


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#336264 - 07/18/10 11:48 AM Re: And what about the perp ? [Re: Gongas]
kidneythis Offline


Registered: 11/08/09
Posts: 1558
This is not going to be easy reading Gongas. I don't want to alrm you unnecessarily but basedon what you have told us this seems warranted to me. I apologize in advance if it hurts too much.

I think you are engaging in false thinking with "the same blood flowing through their veins" as if that had anything to do with the subject. Heredity etc. have nothing to do with the issue, he is a psychopath that is not hereditary. If psychopathy seems to be a familial trait in any family, you will find that it was transmitted culturally, not biologically.

Since you bring them up how safe are your children from this man? How often and for how long does he have them alone away from other adults? Remember you won't see it in him but there are signs to look for in your children.
Here is a link to a National Institute of Health webpage about child abuse; http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/childsexualabuse.html


This sort of long term abuse doesn't just stop when one victim gets away, like experimenting might if that is what it was which you have made clear it isn't, when proper oportunities come along. He has other victims and he is probably lining up new ones all the time.

_________________________
As Mark Twain once quipped, history may not repeat itself, but it does rhyme.

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#336269 - 07/18/10 01:33 PM Re: And what about the perp ? [Re: kidneythis]
Anomalous Offline
Greeter Coordinator
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 03/07/10
Posts: 1354
Hi Gongas,

You asked what is meant by the term "sexual predator."

The definition of predator is:

1. An organism that lives by preying on other organisms.
2. One that victimizes, plunders, or destroys, especially for one's own gain.

A sexual predator uses sexual activity, exploitation and manipulation as their form of predation.

I was going to use lions hunting wildebeast as an example of predation, but lions don't exploit their prey. They don't continue to torment their victims. Lions prey upon wildebeast to eat and survive. Sexual predators frequently torment their victims, sometimes for many years, and they do NOT need to engage in these activities to sustain life.

Sexual predators engage in their behaviors because they have no regard for anyone other than themselves. Those they abuse are frequently not given any more consideration than any other disposable object.

Some may profess to "love" those they have abused. Personally, I think what they "loved" is the satisfaction of their wants and needs, and they don't give a damn about the person (or people) they abused. If they really did "love" them, they would never have harmed them.

Sexual abuse has nothing to do with love or homosexuality. It is about power. It is about fulfilling one's needs to the exclusion of consideration of anyone else. Most child sexual abusers self identify as having a heterosexual preference, regardless of whether their victims were male or female. It isn't the gender of the victim(s) that attracts them (for the most part) but the person's physical development (or the lack thereof), the access they have to that person and the ease with which they can not only manipulate that person but whether or not they will be able to manipulate them into silence so their sick behaviors can continue, either with that person, or others.

Some myths regarding sexual abuse, particularly that of males can be found here: http://www.malesurvivor.org/myths.html

Here is a page on Prevention and Education: http://www.malesurvivor.org/prevention.html

From the homepage you will also find a link to the bookstore.

I am glad you are here asking questions. Only by being informed can you help others, including yourself. Some of what you may read may alarm you. Some of it may horrify you. Much of it will tear at your heart. Empathize with us, but do not pity us. We are survivors. We have survived horrific events to which no human should ever be exposed. Rejoice in our strength and in our spirit. We are the Phoenixes that will once again rise above the ashes.


Anomalous

_________________________
Acceptance on someone else's terms is worse than rejection.

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#336271 - 07/18/10 01:57 PM Re: And what about the perp ? [Re: kidneythis]
Gongas Offline


Registered: 03/23/09
Posts: 21
Loc: Europe
Kidneythis, both my children are adults now. They used to be A LOT with older brother in law, whom they positively loved (and still love).
When younger BIL told me this I went straight to my therapist and asked her if there was any way older BIL could have abused my children too.
She made me a few questions about the boys and then seemed to rule out the possibility; still, she said I could very gently try to gauge if that was a topic that bothered them. quite honestly my boys are the most level headed, stable, happy, laid back boys I know, and I see absolutely NOTHING in their everyday reactions and relation with their uncle that could make me even suspect that anything could have gone on at any time in the past.
Incidentally though, my younger BIL did tell me that for some time after BIL married, he (younger BIL) was alert and watched him around nephews and nieces and was ready to report him should he think that older BIL was abusing a child again.
I guess if he never reported his brother it must mean that older brother never abused anyone again; at least not that younger BIL would know ...

thank you for your input and for the link

Gongas


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#336300 - 07/18/10 07:58 PM Re: And what about the perp ? [Re: Gongas]
kidneythis Offline


Registered: 11/08/09
Posts: 1558
Sorry to be so negative but; No it doesn't mean he didn't abuse anyone again, it only means your BIL did not report him. We'll go ahead and assume that's because he didn't catch him.

I'm happy for your children being safe and well and I hope they go on to fulfill all their dreams.

_________________________
As Mark Twain once quipped, history may not repeat itself, but it does rhyme.

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