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#33554 - 06/06/02 04:44 AM TEACHING THE CHILDREN TO NEVER HIDE IN THE SILENCE
Muldoon Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/30/02
Posts: 1428
Loc: St Paul MN
Gords You sure hit on the hot topic of the month. The children.. Yor got lots of different ideals on what is good and bad. The #1 thing I got out of all this is that the children are important to all of us.
I feel we must teach them to never hide in the silence, as we have in the past.
Together we can bring this message to all children.
I ask for your ideas and help to move forward with this project.Thanks Muldoon

_________________________
Teach the Children to Never Hide in the Silence

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#33555 - 06/06/02 09:15 AM Re: TEACHING THE CHILDREN TO NEVER HIDE IN THE SILENCE
gords Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 05/24/02
Posts: 7
Loc: Ontario Canada
You are right Muldoon we do have to keep the children safe. I do not want anyone else to go through what I have gone through. Especially my kids. It is not an easy decision whether or not to tell them. My 14 year old, just finishing her first year in high school is trying desperately to spread her wings. She thinks I am being overprotective but trying to explain that it is a nasty world out there and she doesn't know that because she hasn't really experienced any of the nastiness. (I hope that she never does.)
We do have to get the word out that this SA is not acceptable. Silence is NOT golden. Children should been seen AND heard. They are our future.


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#33556 - 06/06/02 01:04 PM Re: TEACHING THE CHILDREN TO NEVER HIDE IN THE SILENCE
Lloydy Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 04/17/02
Posts: 7071
Loc: England Shropshire
Muldoon
your idea stopped me dead, it's something I have thought about for a long time. If reformed prisoners and drug addicts can tour schools spreading the word why can't we ?
It would be hard to get it right thats for sure, just imagine the effect on a child in a group of their friends who is being abused when someone starts talking about it, the different reactions are just about too complex to deal with.
I help at a charity that provides therapy for SA victims and I give my wife leaflets that she takes to the college where she works, and the sad fact is that a steady stream of leaflets are taken. There's never a chance a charity like ours will no longer be needed.
It's a rock and a hard place, but I hope this post continues, I'd like to hear peoples ideas on this.
Lloydy

_________________________
Go confidently in the direction of your dreams! Live the life you've imagined. As you simplify your life, the laws of the universe will be simpler.
Henry David Thoreau

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#33557 - 06/06/02 03:50 PM Re: TEACHING THE CHILDREN TO NEVER HIDE IN THE SILENCE
babs Offline
Member

Registered: 07/20/01
Posts: 59
Loc: Cub Hill, MD
A Mother's thoughts -

When I look at my own teenage years and try to visualize what things are like for my 13 YO daughter, the amount of change is spectacular.

At 13 I was totally naive and uninformed. Thank God that I did not cross paths with a sexual predator. Unfortunately my husband, Getteddie, was not as lucky.

Our parents generation was so uptight about sex that they ignored even discussing the subject with us. It's sometimes difficult not to pass on our fear with the words of caution that MUST be said.

I've told my child that in the coming years when "SHE HATES ME" as a typical teenager tends to do, she should always remember that that "SHE CAN COME TO ME ABOUT **anything** THAT CONCERNS HER". We may not always be 'best buddies', but there is NOTHING SHE CAN'T TALK TO ME ABOUT.

Maybe we can use the current media attention about 'SA & the Catholic Church' to stir us into political activism toward PROTECTING ALL CHILDREN.

Babs


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#33558 - 06/06/02 04:00 PM Re: TEACHING THE CHILDREN TO NEVER HIDE IN THE SILENCE
bosishere Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/14/01
Posts: 161
Loc: nashville,tn,usa
Muldoon, Lloyd and Gords, all of you are saying ones children should be told, and I DO agree. It is far better for ones own child to heard the news of sa from ones own parent, rather than say at school or from other children they are hanging around with. Not having any children of my own, and ALWAYS knowing what was done to me re older guys than I was, and the Catholic Church "not wanting to discuss that" I was one of the "forgotten." But today children DO GROW UP TOO FAST, and history DOES reflect that one in three or four women will be rapped, and one in six men will be rapped, and people we think will NEVER COME NEAR OUR CHILDREN, tell that one to some of the parents who live in the arch-dipcese of Boston,MA, parents DO have to tell their children what sexual abuse is and if unfortunately one of them experienced it in their younger years. Think of it, it is a hell of a lot better coming from ones parent(s) than coming from somebody official or a teacher. It took this country about thirty (30)years to "accept" female rape, and the process has just started with the public accepting male rape. I now because I have seen college students listen to people who were rapped talk about that fact and how they are trying to get the word out. Maybe in another thirty (30) years the public will know the "whole" story. Bosishere


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#33559 - 06/06/02 04:03 PM Re: TEACHING THE CHILDREN TO NEVER HIDE IN THE SILENCE
Lloydy Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 04/17/02
Posts: 7071
Loc: England Shropshire
Bab's
It's sad that we would have to ride on the back of the catholic fiasco et al to make the problem more recognisable to kids, but it's probably the way to go. The media are being forced to cover this very unglamourous subject in a bit more depth. And tonight we have the start of a three part profile of Scotland Yards Anti Pedophile Squad on British TV, hopefully it will be a bit more than just the glory of smashing doors in and arresting perv's. But ANY publicity is good and each time a new session of arrests / disclosures are made we should not be afraid of jumping on the bandwagon. The woman that runs the charity I help at is worse than an ambulance chaser, \:D , but she's on the local radio regularly spreading the word. If kids hear about it from anywhere, and also hear help is available then it's an improvement on "the good old days"
Lloydy

_________________________
Go confidently in the direction of your dreams! Live the life you've imagined. As you simplify your life, the laws of the universe will be simpler.
Henry David Thoreau

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#33560 - 06/06/02 06:16 PM Re: TEACHING THE CHILDREN TO NEVER HIDE IN THE SILENCE
Anonymous
Unregistered


Hi Lloydy. I hope the Pedophile Squad coverage uses the broadcast opportunity to lay down the truth to pedos & boylovers. Every pedo and boylover in the UK'll be watching the show. Times have changed. It's not like the Old Days when guys could screw kids and get away with it till they're old & gray. Start screwing kids nowadays and it's a fast trip to the gray hotel. That's a big price to pay for a few minute's fun.


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#33561 - 06/06/02 07:43 PM Re: TEACHING THE CHILDREN TO NEVER HIDE IN THE SILENCE
Lloydy Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 04/17/02
Posts: 7071
Loc: England Shropshire
The programe finished about 45 minutes ago and I'm still shaking and my head feels about to explode. It was about the most powerful tv I have ever seen, and there's two more parts- 90 mins each- to come.
It made me mad, because there's only 15 detectives on the squad, but I suppose we can take some satisfaction- it's the biggest anti pedo' unit in europe !!! Does that tell us something?
But the sheer hard slog these people put into their visibly distressing work is awsome. One scene when they arrested a sick 80+ year old pedo was so powerful, 18 or 80, he was going down. Arrested because a sharp eyed policeman who saw a blurred house name on a single picture taken in the 1960's and eventually traced it. That picture was one of ten's of thousands of items of evidence seized from another,until then unrelated, pedo'. Work like that deserves our thanks.
But the scary bit was the interviews with the pedo's. I've read about them, listened to other tv programes about them, I've fucking met them !!
And I know what they're like, they believe they're right and done nothing wrong, they're very, very clever / devious and believe they are so smart they wont be caught- and if they do, that they will be proven innocent.
Nothing prepared me for watching these guys, they said nothing I haven't heard before. It was just the way they said it, the arrogance. It was chilling to watch.
Come tommorow morning the British rivers will be full of computers, the ease with which they can be made to give up their secrets is frightening, I would never buy a used computer from a stranger.
Unfortunately with an estimated 6 million child porn images doing the rounds they can't catch them all, most are caught by following through from one person to another. Email a pedo' once and your address is on his drive.
Excellent programme, look out for it on any BBC satelite channel. But be prepared for a ride.
Lloydy

_________________________
Go confidently in the direction of your dreams! Live the life you've imagined. As you simplify your life, the laws of the universe will be simpler.
Henry David Thoreau

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#33562 - 06/06/02 10:11 PM Re: TEACHING THE CHILDREN TO NEVER HIDE IN THE SILENCE
Just Call me J Offline
Member

Registered: 07/14/01
Posts: 204
Loc: Inland Empire, California
I work in a group home for abused children, and tomorrow, I'll be attending a training called "Preventing Sexual Acting Out." I've done this one before. We're going to watch a CNN report from a few years ago, that interviews some of those NAMBLA pervs, a "non-practicing" pedophile, and a creep in prison doing a "treatment" program.

I agree, Lloydy, the arrogance of the pedos, as they talk about the "love" they have and how much the children "want" the attention... it's sickening.

Hearing someone like that talk of "love for a child" as a "beautiful thing" is frightening. I felt very indigant, that these creeps would have the AUDACITY to use the very same language I use to describe my work, to justify the lifetime of pain they inflict. I work 40+ hours a week trying to undo the damage these sickos have done. I know what love for a child means, and it has nothing to do with sticking body parts where they don't belong.

It's too bad I don't have satellite. Thanks for the heads up! Maybe PBS will get their hands on it, to bring it over.

We're in this together.

Jeremy

_________________________
We're in this together. - Nine Inch Nails

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#33563 - 06/07/02 07:31 AM Re: TEACHING THE CHILDREN TO NEVER HIDE IN THE SILENCE
Muldoon Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/30/02
Posts: 1428
Loc: St Paul MN
Thanks everyone for your imput on this topic. I,ve been out of town for the last 5 day and working long hours,so I have no time . ThE view of the world sure looks different from 10000 feet up in the air, it did my mind a world of good but also sad thinking about all the victums down there stilll hiding in the silence. I want us to put togeather a worldwide information campaign to end the silence. Know that we have the power here to do it.
Our children & all children must be saved from the hell we have gone through

_________________________
Teach the Children to Never Hide in the Silence

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#33564 - 06/07/02 07:59 PM Re: TEACHING THE CHILDREN TO NEVER HIDE IN THE SILENCE
Lloydy Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 04/17/02
Posts: 7071
Loc: England Shropshire
Jeremy
the training on Preventing acting out sounds interesting, how about a posting about it sometime?
I'll see what I can do about US format video of this programe, maybe this sites administration could use it, pass it around ? just a passing thought.
Thanks
Lloydy

_________________________
Go confidently in the direction of your dreams! Live the life you've imagined. As you simplify your life, the laws of the universe will be simpler.
Henry David Thoreau

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#33565 - 06/11/02 07:44 AM Re: TEACHING THE CHILDREN TO NEVER HIDE IN THE SILENCE
Broken Offline
Member

Registered: 03/25/01
Posts: 273
Loc: Huntingtun Beach, CA, US
Id kind of like to be in some sort of a program for acting out sexually, just so i could talk about it to somebody other than my therapist. I dont do pedo stuff, that makes me sick just thinking about it, my problem is cartoons. I know your probably laughing, but that just makes it more degrading. Its too easy for me, because its total symbolism, completely female bodies with no hint of masculine features raping men with male genitalia. Its so humiliating to get turned on by that sort of thing. I used to look at transvestite photos, but i could never get over that they looked like men, it made me sick to my stomach, it was too distracting. That and those stupid fucking japanese cartoons, where all the characters are sort of androdgenous and the girls always have these huge, wide eyes. There is a lot of twisted things like that out there, a lot of time anime depicts violent rape and extreme bondage. What does that say about the underbelly of japanese culture? I think that sexual abuse is something that affects the entire "civilised" (read: land raping overpopulated blights of human infection) world. I read a piece about how male orangotangs dont devolope into full male adolescents but still remain fertile so long as there is a dominant male present. The orangotangs in the zoo will apparently "rape" (Im a bit skeptic) the female orangotangs behind the dominant males back. But they said even in nature such as this, the males never physical abuse the females. Sometimes i wonder if there arent undercurrents of instinct that have a hand in child molestation. There is definately a line that has to be drawn, but if we could map out some of the raw subliminal impulses that drive people to strange sexual acts we might be able to combat them a little better.


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#33566 - 06/12/02 04:20 PM Re: TEACHING THE CHILDREN TO NEVER HIDE IN THE SILENCE
Just Call me J Offline
Member

Registered: 07/14/01
Posts: 204
Loc: Inland Empire, California
Lloydy, sadly, the training was not as well done as the previous times I've done it.

We didn't watch the full "Theives of Childhood" video, but we did watch 2 other video segments, one with a former Miss America who produced a video about survivors of abuse by children older than themselves, and another in which a female teen perpetrator was in a treatment program. The teen finally connected her own feelings of being abused herself to what she had done to her victims. Her therapist admitted that this didn't make her cured (in fact, stated she would "never be cured," a statement not admitted much in the press), but that it was a positive step in her recovery.

The rest of the training should have covered ways that we, as staff, can identify and deal with sexual acting out behaviors. What it consisted of, was the leader of the group telling us stories about behaviors that she has worked with, where the staff didn't respond. She didn't say what should be done, she just explained what happens if your opinion is "boys will be boys" (ie, the kids don't stop.... well, DUH!).

One of the most important pieces of the training was that "desire + opportunity = event." We have this drawing that shows the "Four Preconditions of Sexual Abuse." The first is Motivation (a desire to perform the behavior). Second is Internal Barriers (this would be things like a consience). These can be overcome by rationalization of the behavior, minimizing its effects, or manipulating. Then there are Exterior Barriers (availability of a child, privacy, etc). Opportunities like babysitting, seclusion (as on a camping trip), or isolating a child make this hurdle easier to get over. Then there is the Victim's Resistance. Perps use bribery, guilt, or force to get past the Victim's resistance (as we all know). When these obstacles are passed, you get to abuse.

As line staff in a group home, there is little that we can do about Motivation or Internal Barriers (a therapist can work on this area, but only after it is known that this is a problem, ie. after a perp has abused). Our job as staff is to provide protection and supervision, so we help to provide the external barriers. We provide the monitoring of visits, when the abusers are given permission to see a child in purpose. It is our job to record any notable behaviors that come out of their interactions. We also should be able to avoid incidents between our kids if supervision is kept constant, if possible perps are not assigned a smaller/younger roommate, and if every behavior that does occur is addressed.

It is our job as parents (though, admittedly, I am not yet a parent) to work on the fourth step: Victim's Resistance. It is by arming our children with knowledge, that they can leave that final hurdle standing against a perpetrator. We also need to help our children to feel it is okay to come to us, if they are embarrassed, or shamed. Rolling Stone has an article this month (Natalie Portman on the cover) about one of the victims of Rev. Shanley, that kind of touches on this.

Broken, I know what you mean about anime. The Japanese have an incredibly repressed society, that busts out in a lot of disturbing ways. That's part of the reason I stick to the "good stuff," like any movie by Miyazaki. When I was at the San Diego Comic Convention last year, one of my buddies thought it would be hilarious to buy a particular video. This was a live-action version of a popular(!) anime called "LA Blue Girl." This is one of those "tentacle monster" shows, where it is scantily clad VERY young women who are the only ones that can do battle with the creature with dozens of tentacles, who invariably rapes them.

Since this was about 2 weeks after the revelation of my abuse, it was triggering for me to see this video. My buddies were laughing over how bad and cheesy the video was, but I just had to turn away, and focus on my breathing to calm down. I've never made it a point to watch the animated versions, so I don't have a real basis for comparison, but I think the graphicness of live humans being penetrated was too much for me.

I spend way too much of my time reading "transgender fiction" though. Some times are better than others, but being at home alone, I often find myself in front of the computer, reading another story of a man wearing women's clothes. It's not the crossdressing aspect that bothers me, it's the stories that involve oral or anal sex. I find that these acts turn me on, at my computer, but when my girlfriend and I act it out together, I don't get the same reaction. And it's not even that I get a bad reaction. It's just kind of flat, more like no reaction.

Lloydy, I hope this answers some of your questions. By the way, the stats given in "Thieves of Childhood" say that 1 in 4 women, and 1 in 17 men have been sexually assualted, though it is admitted that these numbers are impossible to confirm, and are probably low.

Broken, I hope you'll find some comfort in not being alone.

We're in this together.

Jeremy

_________________________
We're in this together. - Nine Inch Nails

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#33567 - 06/12/02 08:19 PM Re: TEACHING THE CHILDREN TO NEVER HIDE IN THE SILENCE
Lloydy Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 04/17/02
Posts: 7071
Loc: England Shropshire
Jeremy
Thanks for that, I'll reply when I have had time to read it properly.
Lloydy

_________________________
Go confidently in the direction of your dreams! Live the life you've imagined. As you simplify your life, the laws of the universe will be simpler.
Henry David Thoreau

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