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#335409 - 07/06/10 12:19 PM I just watched Sybil
fhorns Offline
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MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/10/02
Posts: 627
About two weeks ago, I was wanting to watch Sybil, about a young woman who had 13 different personalities. She had a very abusive mother who scarred her both physically and emotionally. After looking up DID on Google, it had a Youtube link, and Sybil is broken into 19 10 minute pieces.

I always wanted what Sybil had in the end (freedom), and it was something my mom wanted as well. I have never asked her, but I just know she was sexually violated at some point in her life. She too was fascinated with the story, but she's never told.

I was triggered a little when Sybil was resisting going forward with the Dr. (her psychiatrist), more because I know the fear. Sybil actually admitted that later, except her words were of the fear it wasn't going to happen, that she might not survive it. Fear of impending doom from dark religious messages stayed with her.

I connected with the character. Sybil often said, "I don't think I can do this. I'm afraid." I know that fear. Have lived and hid behind it. Like Sybil, I feel it's wrong to feel that way.

I also looked this up since I've been afraid of parts of myself, known as DID (dissociative identity disorder), something I think I blink into, but have never lost time. I rather find someone/something that can survive a situation until the stress goes away. So I'm wanting relief now, something Sybil did too, but felt guilty for, and I do too.
I feel alone because parts of me pop up and say hi to others, but it's not all of me. I stay back, hidden, to feel safe.

I can't believe I just stated all this. Gonna post before I try to delete it--forget about it.

Peace to all of you,

Alfred


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#335411 - 07/06/10 12:54 PM Re: I just watched Sybil [Re: fhorns]
SamV Offline
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MaleSurvivor

Registered: 12/13/09
Posts: 5942
Loc: Talladega, Alabama, USA
Alfred,

Your desire to become whole is significant on the recovery, my brother. To research and critically examine therapies is a good thing. It shows how much you want to revive the over taken parts of your personality and revive the uninterrupted you.

Dissociation is definitely a concern for survivors, as the trauma we have experienced is beyond the scope of madness and treachery. Who, at any age, is?

It is right for you to explore these therapies, Alfred, and I am encouraged by your desire, I celebrate the awakening.

I welcome all of you, from all of me.

Heal well,
Sam

_________________________
MaleSurvivor Moderator Emeritus 2012 - 2014

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#335415 - 07/06/10 01:19 PM Re: I just watched Sybil [Re: SamV]
fhorns Offline
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Registered: 08/10/02
Posts: 627
The base question that pops up (screams) is "Is there something wrong with me????"


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#335422 - 07/06/10 02:17 PM Re: I just watched Sybil [Re: fhorns]
sono Offline
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Registered: 07/19/09
Posts: 1069
I remember Sybil when it came out in '76 on TV...I was 12 at the time. I couldn't say why I watched it to begin with other than I had had a crush on Sally Field in "The Flying Nun" reruns...LOL

BUT, I became transfixed by it...obsesses by it almost. I got the book upon which it was based. I read it several times even and thought about it a lot. The emergence of the personalities, the memories of what her mother did to her coming to the fore. Powerful stuff.


Kevin

_________________________
the family
the perp

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#335425 - 07/06/10 02:30 PM Re: I just watched Sybil [Re: sono]
kidneythis Offline


Registered: 11/08/09
Posts: 1558
"the trauma we have experienced is beyond the scope of madness and treachery"

Great line Sasuva. One of the best I've heard describing our plight.

I watched it because of the Crush on Sally Field thing. I never did understand it. I probably still don't.
The dissociation I'm guilty of is more a conscious blocking out of things I can't deal with, mainly due to fear or shame. This blocking that I did (maybe still do but I don't think so) was learned so young and is so refined I am often not aware (should be past tense "was often...") I am blocking something out. That too was self taught because I became aware that the "unaturalness" of my aspect when I knew I did it made me stand out and got me negative attention and people avoided me.



Edited by kidneythis (07/06/10 02:32 PM)
_________________________
As Mark Twain once quipped, history may not repeat itself, but it does rhyme.

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#335432 - 07/06/10 04:37 PM Re: I just watched Sybil [Re: fhorns]
GeorgeMartin Offline


Registered: 12/29/07
Posts: 189
Loc: USA
Go to Youtube.com and type in Dissociation and INSIDE. There is a video though not long at all, that explains MPD or DID the best I have ever seen it. The United States of Tara, though Hollywood hyped is pretty good (and funny). Peacock with Cillian Murphy is good too. (Though I do just HATE the way they demonize and twist up how the condition is). We are all not serial killers, are harmful to ourselves, other people, or specially to children.

There are some that say "Sybil" was based on a fraudulant real-life person living in Kentucky and Cornelia Wilber who hyped the case history to IMPLY that the real life woman had MPD. Maybe she did, and maybe she didn't.


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#335458 - 07/07/10 01:02 AM Re: I just watched Sybil [Re: GeorgeMartin]
pufferfish Offline
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MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/26/08
Posts: 6818
Loc: USA
Thank you George,

That's a good source of information.

I watched several of these. The one at this link:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Le41jA8FA4s

Shows a young woman explaining DID. Put your hand or a card over the left half of her face and then switch it, cover the right side of her face. Do they look like the same person?
I don't think so. That speaker has DID and you can actually observe it in the opposite sides of her face.

There arose in the 90's a movement called the false-memory-syndrome. They tended to say that most reports of child sexual abuse were figments of the counseling method. They also attacked the idea of DID/MPD. But I believe that movement has been discredited by now. We accept DID/MPD as being a real phenomenon. Sybil was a real person and her therapist Cornelia Wilber is a respected psychotherapist in Kentucky who has treated many multiples. Sybil came back after the book was written and claimed that Dr. Wilber had not presented her as she really was. But that's always the problem in psychotherapy. The T has to come up with a concept of their patient in their own perception. The perception of the T probably always differs from the perception of the patient.

Allen

pufferfish


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#335619 - 07/08/10 03:07 PM Re: I just watched Sybil [Re: pufferfish]
pufferfish Offline
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Registered: 02/26/08
Posts: 6818
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: pufferfish

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Le41jA8FA4s

Shows a young woman explaining DID. Put your hand or a card over the left half of her face and then switch it, cover the right side of her face. Do they look like the same person?
I don't think so. That speaker has DID and you can actually observe it in the opposite sides of her face.


I keep thinking about these issues because I still have trouble with them myself.

There is the young lady in that YouTube segment



If you look at her picture, though it's rather subtle, the left side of her face (from her point of view) shows a different mood and expression than the right side of her face. The left side looks quite depressed and melancholy. The right side of her face looks pretty normal and bland. I believe that this is one form of expression of DID/MPD. I also have this mode of expression and I've had to work hard on it with eye exercises, etc.

When I first started to discover these things, I purposed to make a file of pictures of people who appeared in the news and who had bilaterally different expressions on their faces. For lack of time this effort fell by the wayside. One of the pictures I did notice was a high-up official in the CIA.

Perhaps in DID/MPD this expression only appears in certain circumstances.

If any of you guys out there know anything more about this, I would sure like to hear from you.

Allen






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#335651 - 07/08/10 09:42 PM Re: I just watched Sybil [Re: pufferfish]
FormerTexan Offline
Site Administrator
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 09/12/04
Posts: 11027
Loc: Denver, CO
Kevin,

Same here, same age. I think what interested me about the movie was that there were aspects of my mother in Sybil's mother, so as I watched I occasionally superimposed my mother on her mother. Not hard to do, but I won't claim to have had the rottenness Sybil had done to her.

Andy



Edited by FormerTexan (07/08/10 09:57 PM)
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List of things ain't nobody got time for:

1. That


If I could meet myself as a boy...

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#335659 - 07/08/10 11:19 PM Re: I just watched Sybil [Re: FormerTexan]
pufferfish Offline
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Registered: 02/26/08
Posts: 6818
Loc: USA
Wow! Andy,

The mother scared the stuffin' out of me.

My mother was also nothing like that. But I think there are some guys here whose mothers were.

Allen


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#335676 - 07/09/10 02:09 PM Re: I just watched Sybil [Re: pufferfish]
Jim1961 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 03/10/09
Posts: 1122
Loc: Pa, but likely traveling...
I remember watching Sybil on TV in the late 70s and (I think) I rented it once in the early 80s (my early 20s).

I was fascinated by the story, and could relate to the abuse.

It also lead me to read an excellent book titled "I'm Eve", the real story of the woman from the old movie "Three Faces of Eve." I checked on Amazon and it is available as used:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/B...;condition=used

Fortunately, I do not suffer from DiD, but I know a couple guys that do...

I do experience "mild" dissociation, where I can "leave" my body and go stone cold. I used to think of this as simply numbing out, but then reading Mike Lew's book and reading up about it here, I know now that it is really a form of dissociation.

I'm sure it was a coping tool, but today it just gets in the way of my relationships (like with my wife). I'm working on it with my T.

_________________________
Loneliness is a power that we possess to give or take away forever. -Yes, Starship Trooper

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#335681 - 07/09/10 03:50 PM Re: I just watched Sybil [Re: Jim1961]
fhorns Offline
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MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/10/02
Posts: 627
Allen and others who dissociate,

I retain things I've read. Allen gave me a good book (Faces of Billy Milligan), but I'll have to order it from my library--do an interlibrary loan.

I know some basics. Are there any good websites about dissociation? Because Allen sees things not often cited. Googling would turn up 1000's. Asking for your experience though.

Thank you. This helps.

Alfred


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#335706 - 07/09/10 09:51 PM Re: I just watched Sybil [Re: fhorns]
kidneythis Offline


Registered: 11/08/09
Posts: 1558
fhorns,
here is a link to a paper I found when I first started to remember and thought I was going crazy. http://socrates.berkeley.edu/~kihlstrm/Sutker_2001.htm

You can find many other papers by him on his site which should have links at the top of the page.

A year or so later I discovered he was a false memory advocate and accepts money to testify against recalled abuse. He insists there must be proof or it has to be questioned.

The papers and information is good. He isn't a treating psychologist he is a research psychologist. How one is a research psychologist w/o treating is an answer I can't get from him or any other "research" psychologists.

I hope this helps you.

_________________________
As Mark Twain once quipped, history may not repeat itself, but it does rhyme.

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#335715 - 07/09/10 11:34 PM Re: I just watched Sybil [Re: kidneythis]
fhorns Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/10/02
Posts: 627
Kidney,
I'm glad you stated his stance, because most of what I read sounded like he was saying "but it isn't really true". Not good for a survivor (like me, seeking validation) to hear. Thanks for warning me.

Got any other links? :-/

Alfred


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#335727 - 07/10/10 12:56 AM Re: I just watched Sybil [Re: fhorns]
kidneythis Offline


Registered: 11/08/09
Posts: 1558
I never got that from what I read. I probably puzzled the hell out of him when I emailed and told him how he helped me. I found that his factual and historical information was good. I haven't read much more than the paper I linked but I have perused some of the other stuff.

JimHopper.com is a good site to try for information about memory and all sorts of abuse related damage.

_________________________
As Mark Twain once quipped, history may not repeat itself, but it does rhyme.

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#335757 - 07/10/10 03:31 PM Re: I just watched Sybil [Re: kidneythis]
fhorns Offline
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MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/10/02
Posts: 627
Thanks for the direction Kidney.

Alfred


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#335780 - 07/11/10 09:30 AM Re: I just watched Sybil [Re: fhorns]
kidneythis Offline


Registered: 11/08/09
Posts: 1558
For me it was the information about dissociative amnesia and fugue that explained this hole in my memory and allowed me to feel normal while I was having all these images and memories running through my head. I was very concerned about my sanity until then as I didn't know what it was.
When I recalled the ECT and fully realized what the after effects of it were that was the final piece of the puzzle that explained to me how I could be remembering something from a period of time I had never been able to remember anything about.

You see, like a lot of people, I didn't believe it was possible until it happened to me.



Edited by kidneythis (07/11/10 09:32 AM)
_________________________
As Mark Twain once quipped, history may not repeat itself, but it does rhyme.

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#336429 - 07/20/10 04:04 PM Re: I just watched Sybil [Re: kidneythis]
pufferfish Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/26/08
Posts: 6818
Loc: USA
I watched the Bonus disc associated with the dvd Sybil. I found the bonus disc very interesting, but not as interesting as the main dvd. Apparently the psychiatrist, Dr. Wilbur, was a very flamboyant person. I saw the original version of Sybil, starring Sally Field and Joanne Woodward.

Apparently the real Sybil died in 1998 of cancer. Her real name was Shirley Mason. She was born in Dodge Center, Minnesota in 1923. As an adult she was an art professor at Rio Grande College. Hundreds of her paintings have been sold. A bunch of her art work has been collected into a dvd display.

Picture of the real Sybil, Shirley Mason (below)
(cover half of the face and look; then cover the other half of her face and who do you see?)


Artwork of Sybil (Shirley Mason)

Dove In Flight (below)


Unnamed crayon drawing by Sybil or Shirley Mason (below)


Blue Is the Color of Love, by Sybil or Shirley Mason (below)


Here is one website about Sybil's work:

https://www.sybil.biz/store/

Another website is by the friend of Sybil (Nancy):

http://www.sybilsfriend.com/

A new movie about Sybil has been released in 2006 in a 2-dvd set. It stars Jessica Lange as Dr. Wilbur and Tammy Blanchard as Sybil.

Wikipedia lists the personalities of Sybil. The surname has been changed because while she was alive her anonymity had to be protected. The list of personalities is also given in the beginning of the book Sybil.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sybil_(book)#References

Sybil's psychiatrist is written up in Wikipedia:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cornelia_B._Wilbur

Dr. Wilbur died in 1992. She was professor of psychiatry at University of Lexington in KY.

More of Sybil's art is at:

http://www.sybilsfriend.com/shirleysart.htm

http://www.sybilsfriend.com/multiple%20expressions.htm

There are a bunch of other websites showing Sybil's artwork and some letters.

A good article on DID is found in Wikipedia:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dissociative_identity_disorder

Allen









Edited by pufferfish (07/20/10 04:53 PM)
Edit Reason: pictures

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#336845 - 07/25/10 07:49 PM Re: I just watched Sybil [Re: pufferfish]
FormerTexan Offline
Site Administrator
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 09/12/04
Posts: 11027
Loc: Denver, CO
Just a smidge of coincidence, the woman who played Sybil's mother was born in St Louis, MO. So was my mother.

I was watching the movie today, almost studying it.

_________________________
List of things ain't nobody got time for:

1. That


If I could meet myself as a boy...

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#336847 - 07/25/10 08:34 PM Re: I just watched Sybil [Re: FormerTexan]
pufferfish Offline
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MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/26/08
Posts: 6818
Loc: USA
There is really a lot in that movie. I have seen it a total of 3 times, spread over a bunch of years. The first 2 times I probably didn't "get" what was going on very well. But I didn't know very much about DID/MPD then. The author of the script of the movie Sybil worked very, very hard at it, trying to portray accurately what was going on. They even had Sybil's psychiatrist on the set for a while and they had her involvement in the script. They listened to hours of taped sessions between Sybil and her therapist.

Ideally it would be good for someone highly competent in DID/MPD to add a play-by-play analysis of the movie in the form of notes that could be turned on or off.

The notes for the movie would tell when she is having PTSD, flashbacks, or a shift in her alter (alter means alternate personality). It would help so many people to have this kind of analysis available. Sybil's alters have been listed in the book by that name and are in Wikipedia. Some of them are pretty obvious. When she hears the squeeking of the swing, that is PTSD. In her mind it carries her back to the trauma of the sound of the pulley as her sick mother pulled her "up".

When Sybil waded in the pond when she was a teacher-assistant, she was obviously in a child personality, possibly Marjorie. When she cried and crawled under her therapist's piano, she was one of the Peggys. And so on.

An interesting point is, how did her paranoid schizophrenic mother affect her in the development of these personalities, I mean beyond the obvious reasons.

Allen

pufferfish whistle




Edited by pufferfish (07/28/12 01:07 PM)

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#336933 - 07/26/10 04:57 PM Re: I just watched Sybil [Re: pufferfish]
kidneythis Offline


Registered: 11/08/09
Posts: 1558
Allen,
Here's food for thought. When you say her face is different on each side as if that were abnormal I keyed on that. First because my upper body is lopsided due to the abuse of my foster mother.
then I remember women I have been with over the years, all of whom are not symetrical. And in general discussions it is a truism that nearly none of us is symetrical in any of our parts, that is why perfect symetry is so appealing.

My thought is that you may be reading something into a natural difference that is not there. I may be wrong but I thought it might be interesting to you to hear that perspective.

KT

_________________________
As Mark Twain once quipped, history may not repeat itself, but it does rhyme.

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#337042 - 07/27/10 10:44 PM Re: I just watched Sybil [Re: kidneythis]
pufferfish Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/26/08
Posts: 6818
Loc: USA
KT

Thanks for your input on this question.

I think her face does reflect bilateral emotional assymetry. I know there is such a thing. I have it myself. That's why I was able to pick it out of the faces I have included in this thread.

Dissociative disorder sometimes affects the use of the eyes. I have that problem and I know of others who have it. There is another condition called amblyopia which a bunch of people have and it is not necessarily at all connected with dissociation. But when the eyes are involved it makes the eye problem much more difficult to treat. And when the eyes are involved it apparently results in the bilaterality of the face. Beyond that I don't know what other conditions cause it to affect the eyes. I don't think any opthalmologists or optometrists in my area understand these things at all.

Allen

pufferfish cool


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#337576 - 08/03/10 09:05 PM Re: I just watched Sybil [Re: pufferfish]
pufferfish Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/26/08
Posts: 6818
Loc: USA
What about this guy?


This guy had an injury at birth and has worked very hard on his eyes.

Allen


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#337631 - 08/04/10 07:43 PM Re: I just watched Sybil [Re: pufferfish]
GeorgeMartin Offline


Registered: 12/29/07
Posts: 189
Loc: USA
He worked on hard on his eyes because he is vain "into-himself" because he has had to "promote himself", to pay his bills, like any actor or promoter would have to.

That doesn't mean he and or everyone that has a "crooked" look about them determines that they have dissociative identity disorder.

My 2 cents worth.


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#340135 - 09/12/10 10:51 PM Re: I just watched Sybil [Re: GeorgeMartin]
pufferfish Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/26/08
Posts: 6818
Loc: USA
I have been doing my eye exercises since this thread was active. As a result, I went through some tremendous eye strain and pain for maybe a week. Then the strain and pain started to subside. I think I have been making real progress in doing this.

Doing this has made me aware in a new way how my eye problem was caused by abuse.

Allen

pufferfish whistle


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#360803 - 04/26/11 04:20 PM Re: I just watched Sybil [Re: pufferfish]
pufferfish Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/26/08
Posts: 6818
Loc: USA
What about this one?




If this offends anybody I'll gladly take it down.

Allen


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