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#334166 - 06/19/10 01:47 PM Was I abused?
downout Offline


Registered: 06/19/10
Posts: 9
Loc: United States
When I was approximately a 8-11 year old boy a young sexy woman in her early mid 20s was my caretaker. She used to dress very inappropriately around me (pantyhose only, saw her undressing in bedroom closet while I would talk to her), and even watch me masturbate, and at times make inappropriate comments. I loved her so much. My whole life I sexually fantasized about her, and every woman I was with I fantasized was her. I would say her name during sex, and dream of having sex with her, raping her, and spending my life with her.

Most of my life since adolescence I've suffered from depression, anxiety, low self esteem, lack of self confidence, insecurity, unable to make close friends. I smoked pot for a good 10 years almost on a daily basis from the time I was 16. She moved out of my house when I was about 11-12 years old. When I turned 13 she invited me up for a visit just with her in her apartment out of town. She asked me at night if I wanted to sleep with her, or alone. I was so shy and embarrassed I said alone.

This has haunted my my entire life and I'm almost 50. Was this a form of sexual abuse? Or was this innocent and natural?

(I've been on anti-depressents and anti-anxiety medication for over 20 years and been in therapy but still have these issues)

(She is a family friend, but will not talk to me about these issues after I confronted her with them).
Thanks.



Edited by downout (06/19/10 01:49 PM)

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#334168 - 06/19/10 02:04 PM Re: Was I abused? [Re: downout]
Pattycakes Offline


Registered: 05/23/10
Posts: 109
Loc: Canada
Hello downout.

welcome to MS! I can tell you right away that you have found the perfect place to ask questions and share your experience. The men here have suffered abuse from males and females and they are here for you. They've been here for me as the girlfriend of a csa victim.

was it innocent? I can't say. Was it natural? I can tell you NO. It is not a natural thing for HER to behave this way with you. She put you in a very uncomfortable situation. One you weren't old enough to deal with.

Some guys here will be able to discuss it with you way better than I ever could. I will let them do that.

I wish you all the best, downout!! Take care! And remember that you are very welcome here.

Pattycakes

_________________________
If you judge people, you have no time to love them.-Mother Theresa




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#334183 - 06/19/10 06:37 PM Re: Was I abused? [Re: Pattycakes]
derrick Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/30/10
Posts: 93
Loc: North Carolina
Hi DownOut

Your in the right place to share with men that have been hurt

What happen to you was not right

Derrick

_________________________
My Story http://www.malesurvivor.org/board/ubbthr...5766#Post335766

Alumnai of May 2011 DAHLONEGA (a life changeing event)
Alumnai of October 2010 WOR Hope Springs
Dahlonega

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#334186 - 06/19/10 07:11 PM Re: Was I abused? [Re: derrick]
petercorbett Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 07/27/08
Posts: 2430
Loc: TEXAS
Hi, my fraternal brother.

Welcome to MS. Here you will receive compassion, understanding & love, from your brothers (fraternal) & friends (in pain).

We, all have been there. Albiet in different ways & ages.

We have been into the depths of our soul & hell too.

You are in the right place, at the right time & with the right people.

Be prepaired for the emotional roller coaster ride of your life. You are on your way.

Was it abuse? I personaly don't know. But her changing in front of you, and her watching you masturbate & making comments
to you was improper to say the least.
Visual, child sex abuse? Is there such a thing? As long as she didn't touch you?
Perhaps my brothers here can give you the answer.

Heal well my fraternal brother DownOut, heal well.

Pete..Irishmoose.

_________________________
Working Boys' Home 10-14 yrs old, grades 5-8. 1949-1953
____________________________________________________________
A very humble alumni of the WOR Dahlonega, GA.
May 15-17 2009, Alta, Sep. 2009. Sequoia, 2010.
Hope Springs, 2010.


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#334245 - 06/20/10 05:48 PM Re: Was I abused? [Re: downout]
jls Offline


Registered: 03/06/09
Posts: 1142
Exposing a child to unnecessary nudity is sexually abusive (I say unnecessary since there are times where children and adults/caregivers/parents do undress in front of each other in appropriate venues like changing rooms or while bathing, depending on the age of the child) but from what you described there was no need for this in your home since she should have simply closed the bedroom door and told you she would talk to you after she was done changing. As far as watching you masturbate goes and commenting on it this crosses the line even further in my mind. Such behaviour was certainly sexually abusive on her part. Children masturbating is fine but the only role adults should assume in it is to guide kids to do it appropriately, as in privately, which means she should have told you to go to your room to do it or if you were in your room at the time she should have simply apologized for disturbing you, closed the door and left. To give you a little story when I was in my teens I worked for a summer camp where one week I was supervising very young children. After an afternoon at the pool I walked into the change room where I discovered a little boy in my group masturbating openly. I didnít encourage it but nor did I discourage it either for fear that I would make him feel bad about something that is normal and natural to do. Instead I simply said it was time for us to go so he needed to put his clothes on, which thankfully worked. As survivors, when it comes to fantasies to do with our abuse experiences youíd be surprised how common this is. I can say it is true for me to a degree and if you check out more of this site you will see it is so for others here also. Thatís not to say such fantasies are acceptable if you arenít comfortable with them. On that note do you have a therapist? In my experience vocalizing such thoughts out loud does wonders with regards to working them out. Just my thoughts. JS

_________________________
Love is better than anger. Hope is better than fear. Optimism is better than despair. So let us be loving, hopeful and optimistic. And weíll change the world.


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#334259 - 06/20/10 06:46 PM Re: Was I abused? [Re: jls]
downout Offline


Registered: 06/19/10
Posts: 9
Loc: United States
Thanks for your input, and like me you are not sure if his fits the definition of abuse. I almost with it WAS physical so I wouldn't have to wonder. This woman was my caretaker, and I loved her and I know she loved me. She might have been unaware of what she was doing. But if she was I would think she would be open to talking about it today. Her husband left her for a younger more attractive woman and she is in her 60s. Probably not good, but this gives me comfort she is getting payback. She might be in denial or I don't know any other explanation.

I would read her diaries talking about her sexual lifestyle and her drug use. And I ended up smoking pot for 10+ years to escape the feelings of self hate and shame.

And to this day I can't cum without saying her name.... although I don't fantasize about her anymore. But this is really where it is strange. I fantasize about a 20 something young man that was the son of a girlfriend of mine, that is very immature and "lost". I fantasize about turning him into a homosexual by raping him, with his mothers consent. This is what I need to do to orgasm. It's a role play and it's all about power, and manipulating his sexuality and confusing him, I suppose like she did to me. And I've seen topics such as Father/Son in homosexual sex, and I suppose that is the context when I fantasize about using him, but also being there for him in a loving way.

I see a psychiatrist for meds for my depression, but don't talk about this. I wonder if I should try to find a local mens group with guys like you to talk and share.
Thanks and to you too Pattycakes.


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#334290 - 06/21/10 12:07 AM Re: Was I abused? [Re: downout]
An Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 12/24/04
Posts: 151
Loc: usa
Just a quick note because of time right now- i'm answering this question as a therapist who is also a female survivor- and certainly that was a factor in why I wanted to be a T and it gave me many understandings and skills i wouldn't have had- but my gut answer was professional- I'd be surprised (and maybe i really would) if other Ts really interested in male survivor treatment didn't react the same way.

The only answer i could give to your question was absolutely it was- Trust your Gut~ Survivors are like mice and mousetraps- I learned a mouse who escapes the first moutrap they encounter, will never appoach ANY trap again no matter how good the cheese looked. I don't know if the research measured whether reactions differed if the trap wasn't set but just in its closed position- but for survivors the reaction would be the same either way. they wouldn't approach the "safe" unset trap (when they could have had all that wonderful cheese w/ no problem) and they reacted exactly as they would to a set trap. Same thing with survivors and trusting - there's the tendency (I understate smile to Not trust your trusting, whether it's safe to or not- because that first mousetrap you trusted betrayed you, you were looking for food/nurturance to be fully alive -- not death!

so what's this got to do with your question- the actions alone are extremely questionable, but as others have said, the public could make a case and it wouldn't "hold up" in court- BUT reverse the sexes first as far as this part of the configuration goes- and see if there's a different reaction. same age difference but a child female and adult age male who walked around suggestively and watched her masturabate, then male years older and girl in her early adolescence asking her to stay at his apt then, proposing she sleep in her room- carefully not taking responsibility for it (definite perp characteristic) but presenting it as your choice, for your benefit if you wanted..

but the real deciding factor for me is I trust your reaction. You're asking because of how it felt to you .someone above mentioned it in his way as did you feel shame- I'd venture that this many years later, had their been no shame, the buried feelings wouldn't be emerging now.What makes a memory is the emotional imprinting - we remember most, no matter how far back, the times associated with a strong emotion, whether it's happiness, sadness, confusion,etc. Had it been just one incident you mentioned, I'd say it was just confusion possibly, but the fact that there was a pattern and so many years later as well, says something else to me.

Enough for my two sense and if reading this you feel, "no that doesn't fit what I'm feeling" then trust that gut. But it's not easy to come to these boards and then post. As far from easy as is possible- It's sort of like that other type joke, if you have to ask- but in this case, I'd have to say you are here now and there's a reason you're asking, you might be mitigating because there was natural arousal or attraction on your part as would happen for most boys, and you want be comfortable with that, eliminate that sense of shame and confusion for this many years, so not naming it as abuse seems like it might be a way to avoid those feelings. But the only way I know how to get to the other shore is to cross a bridge even though it's to an unknown and feared land. It's the way to get to the other side.

sorry so long! Much Hope and Healing, An


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#334301 - 06/21/10 02:22 AM Re: Was I abused? [Re: downout]
pufferfish Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/26/08
Posts: 6713
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: downout
When I was approximately a 8-11 year old boy a young sexy woman in her early mid 20s was my caretaker. She used to dress very inappropriately around me (pantyhose only, saw her undressing in bedroom closet while I would talk to her), and even watch me masturbate, and at times make inappropriate comments.

downout, You have already named it: she dressed inappropriately. She allowed strong emotions of sexuality to develop in you prematurely. You fastened your emotions on her in a way that didn't help you. You don't mention the particular comments she made but you already know that they were inappropriate. Therefore the answer is yes. It was abuse. It didn't help you at all.

In reading between the lines of what you have said, it becomes obvious that you did not have normal or adequate parental relationships. Your parents were absent. In a normal situation you would have fastened your emotions on your parents and it would have programmed you to move through adolescence into an adult relationship with a female.

Originally Posted By: downout

I loved her so much. My whole life I sexually fantasized about her, and every woman I was with I fantasized was her. I would say her name during sex, and dream of having sex with her, raping her, and spending my life with her.

At your age you probably were'nt capable of real adult love for a woman. You had a puppy-love crush. You say that you would say her name during sex. Does that mean sex with her? or were you performing by yourself? If it was sex with her then it very definitely was abuse. You developed a very, very strong fantasy life about her. She was encouraging this. She was not acting responsibly as your caretaker. She was probably in a relationship with a guy about her own age but yet she allowed you to have those responses which were premature in you and set you off in a wrong course.

I think that sometimes a woman like that will knowingly allow a boy to develop a fantasy life about her because it flatters her own ego. But sometimes they think that it will keep the boy from becoming gay. It sometimes has the opposite effect.

Originally Posted By: downout

Most of my life since adolescence I've suffered from depression, anxiety, low self esteem, lack of self confidence, insecurity, unable to make close friends. I smoked pot for a good 10 years almost on a daily basis from the time I was 16.


Those can be symptoms of having been sexually abused as a child. You probably already suspect that her relationship with you was pretty damaging.

Originally Posted By: downout

She moved out of my house when I was about 11-12 years old. When I turned 13 she invited me up for a visit just with her in her apartment out of town. She asked me at night if I wanted to sleep with her, or alone. I was so shy and embarrassed I said alone.

Often in our society a young guy the age you specify thinks that sex with an older female like that is something to be taken advantage of. It sounds like it might be an opportunity not to be passed up.

But young guys are not prepared psychologically for having sexual relationships with older females. It burns out their circuit boards and results in a damaged young guy. That would explain the problems you said that you caried on up through adolescence.

Originally Posted By: downout

This has haunted my my entire life and I'm almost 50. Was this a form of sexual abuse? Or was this innocent and natural?

(I've been on anti-depressents and anti-anxiety medication for over 20 years and been in therapy but still have these issues)

(She is a family friend, but will not talk to me about these issues after I confronted her with them).
Thanks.


Yes it was abusive and it was very damaging of you. It was not innocent and it was not natural. You were too young. You were the one who was innocent and she took that from you.

She won't talk about these issues because she knows she did you wrong. She is ashamed of what she did. Give her up. She damaged you.

You need to talk, talk, talk these issues out live with a counselor. Get these emotions and hurts out in the open with someone trusted and grieve them out. You will start to see a definite improvement in your depression and anxiety level.

Keep us posted here at MS as to how you are doing.

Allen

pufferfish whistle


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#334312 - 06/21/10 10:35 AM Re: Was I abused? [Re: pufferfish]
Pattycakes Offline


Registered: 05/23/10
Posts: 109
Loc: Canada
Hi downout!

I was reading everything that was posted here and thought I'd add a little something. I can't talk for every woman but I, myself, was never attracted to younger men. Not to mention younger boys. There is often a little gap between boys and girls when it comes to being mature i.e. boys being in the 'let's play' mode longer than girls. I often see this in my line of work. For example: little girls doing their homework thinking this is important stuff, I'M important now that I have this task to do. Boys, on the other hand, will say: I'd rather be outside with my friends playing hockey, I'd rather be playing my videogames, etc. so I'll rush through the homework so I can PLAY.
Of course, there are exceptions but it's the way it generally goes. So, that a woman that age would dress inappropriately or watch you masturbate is pretty strange in my eyes. If it were me, I would have left the room. I can't even begin to see how, if it was me, I could ask a teenage boy to sleep in my bed. Even if you were sick and I was babysitting you, I'd make sure you're comfy in your own bed and probably spend the night on a chair next to you in case you need anything.
I believe this is what an adult would and should do. I think it's pufferfish that said she might have taken some kind of pleasure in creating these kinds of feelings in you just to boost her ego. Could be. Doesn't make it right. I can picture an insecure adult trying to impress a kid with particular skills at videogames, sports or music but that's about it. Some adults belittle kids with their knowledge of history, psychology, pop culture and such but any sexual content is inappropriate.

It may be a good thing to disclose to a therapist. A good one. When you call for an appointment, it can be a good idea to ask if the T adheres to a specific school of thought, if they have an expertise in a special field of any kind. If the therapist takes the time to answer your questions before you make the appointment, it's a good sign. If you don't like the answers, say you'll call again later and call somewhere else. The important thing is that you feel comfortable talking to the T. And when you find one, be honest. Don't be afraid. You don't have to tell everything the first time but keep yourself in check and always remember that 1. they are there to help and 2. you can always quit the therapy and find someone else to help you do the work.
Although I think it is normal for boys and girls to have fantasies, these thoughts aren't supposed to make them feel uncomfortable all through adulthood. This could be the surest sign that what she did was wrong. Heck, now that I'm writing about this, I'm remembering 'A', my childhood friend's older brother. He was half mexican and had black hair. I did fantasize about him but it was never uncomfortable and to this day, I had forgotten about him. Well, with Corey Hart being huge when I was a teenager, I moved on!! Then there was Brad Pitt and for some reason, The Cure's Robert Smith...

Apart for the rambling, I hope this helps.

Pattycakes

_________________________
If you judge people, you have no time to love them.-Mother Theresa




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#334323 - 06/21/10 12:08 PM Re: Was I abused? [Re: Pattycakes]
wayne9 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/14/08
Posts: 161
Loc: alabama
No normal women would have done this. What she done was put herself in a position that was sexual with a younger male. Any type of sexual exposer in my book is abuse. If a older person introduces any thing to a younger person that is sexual know matter if there is physical contact or not. Exposer of porn to a younger person is abuse. Talking in a sexual content to a younger person is a form of abuse.

Pattycakes, said "she was never attracted to younger men or boys". We have to remember we are talking about perps....I will never understand what a grown man who has had sex with a women ( I know he had cause he has children) would get from doing the things that he done to me........


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