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#334193 - 06/19/10 09:33 PM Husband & Wife Encounter Gone Wrong
earlybird Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/17/10
Posts: 1007
Loc: WA USA


My wife and I had the most magnificent love making encounter. Sexuality has been an area of struggle all our marriage. I was so excited, felt we had turned a corner and in my eager state shared with her about how wonderful it was. Wow, amazing how things can be so good with such good intentions and yet in the end, end in such failure. Worst than that - I didnít even see it. (No peripheral vision) Makes one wonder what kind of guy/husband I am. How can I be so out of touch with this amazing woman? A person I would never ever want to cause pain, and yet me, being me, seems to be all it takes.

I feel a little bit like the guy who stops by a flower shop, takes a lot of time and pleasure in picking out just the right flowers for his wife. No real reason - just wanted to. When she receives the roses, she seems to truly enjoy them. Then the guy later, wondering where those flowers went, thinking they would be on display for their mutual pleasure and enjoyment, instead finds them in the garbage. Kind of stomps on the passion, intimacy, and sexual energy.

Actually, setting all that aside it does help me when she shares her deep feelings. Though I have to say Iím struggling with the information. I know itís one of those issues that trips us up. Iím left once again trapped. Itís a very familiar and not so subtle messaging: Earl, shut up and stay quiet. I want to support her. The problem lies in that what I see as support for her is actually hurting her. But to stay silent hurts me, which in turn hurts her. Shit. Shit. Shit. Not very articulate, huh? (Iím not mad, just lost and therefore, frustrated.)

Iíve been away from this now for Ĺ a day and have moved into a more saddened state. Iím not feeling Ďtooí sorry for myself, rather, thereís a realization that there may be no hope to this particular situation. Iíve thought about that evening for hours now and am completely mystified. This is not to put it all on my wife, but Iím lost as to what I should have done differently. I really believe that I couldnít have planned and executed that evening any better. I didnít share my excitement right away. I let the evening wind down. Then, out of true pleasure and excitement, I expressed my feelings and thoughts - those thoughts of her positive responses to the evening and especially to my ďsexualĒ touch. I had ventured out of the role of being the passive sexual partner. A big, really big, mistake. So to have it completely and so silently crumble has sucked the oxygen right out of me. My loverís clear message to me is ďDonít try anything or say anything.Ē Iíve lived this sexual life for far too long.

_________________________
Balanced (My goal)

There is symmetry
In self-reflection
Life exemplified
Grace personified

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#334208 - 06/20/10 04:02 AM Re: Husband & Wife Encounter Gone Wrong [Re: earlybird]
Freedom49 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 12/30/07
Posts: 2723
Loc: Washington State
Early, I know exactly how you feel. I had the same experience and decided to share what I was feeling and how excited it was not to be feeling the "old stuff". Of course she wanted to know what the old stuff was and like a fool in my excitement of actually being able to talk about this stuff, I told her. Instead of sharing my excitement and joy she was crushed and started crying. Yes it does suck the oxygen right out of ya.

We had never been the kind of couple that can talk openly about sex and our sex life. Not sure why she wasn't but I know why I wasn't. So when I had gotten to the place in my recovery where I was ok broaching the subject even, to be knocked flat right out of the gate took it's toll. I didn't do that again.

I am currently dating someone now who is very much ok with this now and I have to say it is hard to feel comfortable but I am trying to be open and willing to go there again. This is tough stuff man.

Roger


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#334211 - 06/20/10 06:45 AM Re: Husband & Wife Encounter Gone Wrong [Re: Freedom49]
earlybird Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/17/10
Posts: 1007
Loc: WA USA
Thanks Roger, it is amazing the level of fear I hold, concerning this issue, (sex). I donít see myself as a fearful person. I have to figure this out so I can get my/our, sexual situation resolved. We have been dealing with this issue for thirty seven years. In the past several months there has been improvement but we are both so sensitive that it only takes the slightest hesitation on from either of us and the ďold stuffĒ comes in like a sunami, hyper-raising my fears.
I can identify two particular fears that cause me the most concern.
ē My wife reversing her decision to go forward with our sexual life. (This has happened in the past)
ē Me not being able to let our sexual life go forward. (Itís a powerful tug of war going on inside of me right now)
The latter concerns me more than the first. I can see and feel that I am dragging my feet. Not a lot, but itís there and I need to get over it. If I donít, Iíll bring about the very thing that Iím afraid of happening.
Thereís no question that she has made some type of positive transition in her brain. She does this so dang quietly. On one hand, Iím impressed, but feel a little left out, therefore behind. My job now is to figure out how to catch up. The problem is that Iíve got to do it in a way that is comfortable for her. Why Iím discussing it here? Iím hoping it will help me process without having to openly work on this with my wife. She prefers the silence, which I do not understand but am trying to respect. It scares her when I work on things through open dialog. I think that when I verbalize my thoughts she sees it as a belief, not a quarry. I donít think she understands that Iím looking for input, not making a statement of absolute fact or belief. Also, I hear myself in the asking. Between what I hear and the information given to me by the listener, this helps me in coming to what I think is a better decision. Also I operate on the assumption that the listener wants to have input on the information and there for the decision made. This assumption does not always worked well for me but I do not want to change that core belief.

_________________________
Balanced (My goal)

There is symmetry
In self-reflection
Life exemplified
Grace personified

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#334214 - 06/20/10 08:30 AM Re: Husband & Wife Encounter Gone Wrong [Re: earlybird]
Obi Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 12/28/09
Posts: 1314
Loc: kansas
earl,

i'm so sorry, my brother... i wish i had words of wisdom on this topic but i don't. it greatly bothers me that i can't help you, say something or whatever, that will provide you the info you need to process it...

*sighs*... all i can do is read what you wrote and feel concern for you...

sorry...

todd

_________________________
live another day. climb a little higher.

my story

my vlog

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#334217 - 06/20/10 09:41 AM Re: Husband & Wife Encounter Gone Wrong [Re: Obi]
kidneythis Offline


Registered: 11/08/09
Posts: 1558
Sorry to hear that Earl.
Our society does that anymore. I mean the part where a thought in a process is taken as the WHOLE of the man or woman. We aren't allowed to socially discuss things and try ideas openly to see if we like them or find them wanting anymore. People don't argue out ideas anylonger to test them out and prove what they think is true. Arguement has become a dirty word. So speaking a new thought out loud to hear it is taken to mean you "believe" it.

I did this once long before I understood I had sexual problems I was still young enough to think myself awkward and still believed the "you're defective" messages I was being given by those who were allegedly my friends and family. She didn't react as I had hoped either.
I just unloaded the relief I was feeling from the years of built up frustrations and percieved failures and inadequacies. She froze up and didn't talk but kept acting "normal". She ended up using it to abuse me, but that was her personality and I know now me finding my Aunt in the women I chose.
I've thought about it occasionally and I expect she was reacting genuinely in the moment and that she wasn't as connected to herself and her inner process' as I was to mine. I had assumed everyone was as internally aware as we are. I had always assumed that everyone had settled the questions that plague us. Well it turns out they haven't and most people don't even know that this kind of world exists for them to explore. Our society teaches us to fear exploring our inner selves.

I don't think it is you that did anything wrong nor her either. I think she is processing new information and doesn't yet know how it fits into her singular and your joint world view.

I really hope for this to work out for you as 37 years is a fantastic length of time to be with someone especially for a victim of CSA, and I think that indicates it will work out as both of you want it to.



Edited by kidneythis (06/20/10 09:43 AM)
_________________________
As Mark Twain once quipped, history may not repeat itself, but it does rhyme.

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#334221 - 06/20/10 10:52 AM Re: Husband & Wife Encounter Gone Wrong [Re: kidneythis]
earlybird Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/17/10
Posts: 1007
Loc: WA USA
Thank you Todd you always are thoughtful.

Kidneythis,

Thank you as well. Itís strangely and uncomfortable comforting to not carry this water alone. As with the sexual abuse issues it make the road a little less lonely when others are traveling along side.

My wife is a wonderful person, quiet by nature not a threatening bone in her body. I met her only several months after my rape (Not a CSA) and was drawn to her non-threatening demeanor. I also have come to realize that her non sexual persona probably made her all the more safe to be with. But like so many things in this life, what is good in one situation can be devastating in another.

When we were married I was desperate to prove I was a man, good lover, and a valuable sexual partner. That intensity scared theÖ.out of her. She drew deep inside of herself fearful. Not of me hurting her Iím not violent by nature. The problem was she did not know of my rape, to my discredit, that would come twenty years later. Without that knowledge how could she understand my intensity? So as she withdrew I pursued. This really started an endless cycle, one that persists to this day. We have slain every dragon a relationship can take on with the exception of this one. Has there been progress? Yes, lots. But itís so fragile just the smallest pebble on the track and we get derailed.

Thanks guys this is such an important issue to have you discussing it with me means the world to me.

_________________________
Balanced (My goal)

There is symmetry
In self-reflection
Life exemplified
Grace personified

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#334222 - 06/20/10 11:22 AM Re: Husband & Wife Encounter Gone Wrong [Re: earlybird]
Ever-fixed Mark Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 01/02/10
Posts: 728
Loc: United States
Earlybird,

Where you are is a difficult and delicate place. I see you reaching out and making an effort to understand yourself and your wife, and to please her.

I'm trying to understand why she reacted as you said. Was it that there is an old established role, a box, that she has sorted your into and your behavior was outside that definition? Was it that she is used to being in control of this part of your relationship and she sees this as a threat in some way? It's hard to understand what is really going on without some form of communication.

Sex can be pretty terrifying and the emotions that can be tied into sex can be overwhelming. It sounds like there is a need for both of you to take the pressure of yourselves somehow. I really empathize with your experience because some elements of it echo so strongly with my own. I'm not as far advanced as you are, but I'm looking at my sexual self and dealing with challenges communicating with my partner as well.

The only thing we can do is to keep working and take heart that breakthroughs will continue to happen in the future as they have in the past.

-efm

_________________________

Everybody here's got a story to tell
Everybody's been through their own hell
There's nothing too special about getting hurt
Getting over it, that takes the work

- "Duck and Cover" by Glen Phillips

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#334223 - 06/20/10 12:13 PM Re: Husband & Wife Encounter Gone Wrong [Re: Ever-fixed Mark]
earlybird Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/17/10
Posts: 1007
Loc: WA USA
As you said it is good to reach out to each other. Having you guys reaching back is manna from, hummmÖ.you know that guy I donít believe in. (Different subject) I truly value all you men and the input you give.

EFM you asked why my wife responded the way she did and was there a box that I was to fit in. That is a poignant question to ask.

A Box?

Yes, we were both handed boxes to reside in and they were stifling. I would go into it here, but Iím fearful that I would throw this thread off track. Letís just say we were both very conservative Christians and taught ďveryĒ traditional beliefs as to the roll (Box if you will) each of us were to play. It took years to untangle them from our lives.

My wife entered the relationship coming from a family structure where her parents were in a dead marriage. One of the things that attracted me to her was my parents and their obvious affection for each other. She wanted it. And in all other areas we have obtained it, but not here it continually alludes us.

Iím sure what was perplexing to my wife is that in my natural state Iím soft and reflective even introspective. She liked that about me. But when it came to making love it was all business. I don Ďt mean it was not romantic full of touching and caressing. No I mean there was a hidden agenda she was a player in with no knowledge of the rules. I needed to be wanted, desired, craved in a way no one would ever be able to give me. From the beginning our sexual life was to validate my maleness not our love for each other. That fucking hurts to admit! For I love this woman more everyday it just never stops growing so to admit to you guys my failing wellÖÖIím stopping for a moment.

_________________________
Balanced (My goal)

There is symmetry
In self-reflection
Life exemplified
Grace personified

Top
#334229 - 06/20/10 01:07 PM Re: Husband & Wife Encounter Gone Wrong [Re: earlybird]
Ever-fixed Mark Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 01/02/10
Posts: 728
Loc: United States
I wonder if your wife were to reach inside and find an equally deep truth to bring into the light - what would it be?

As humans, we all need things that we don't always realize consciously. I'm trying to understand that about myself as well. Your deep truth about your maleness frees your wife from having complete responsibility for it. It also gives you the power to decide what it is that you can do within yourself to realize and celebrate that maleness. Once we feel like we own things like this, rather than other people, the world changes in subtle ways.

When you say "maleness" I don't get the sense that you are talking about gender. What I hear is "masculinity" and there are so many ways to be authentically masculine. The challenge is defining what we want masculine to be for us and understand why we want it to be that way. There may also be an element of personal power here, of reclaiming your power as a part of being a man in the world.

We've met and talked in person and I've read your writing. I have a sense of the kind of man you are and the kind of masculinity that you embody. Please, don't discount either. I'm sure many of us would like to be as introspective, as genuine, as caring, and as determined as you are to make your life and the lives of the people you love the most vital and authentic lives possible.

I can't think of a better foundation for you to build your confidence in the man you already are, and the man you are becoming.

-efm

_________________________

Everybody here's got a story to tell
Everybody's been through their own hell
There's nothing too special about getting hurt
Getting over it, that takes the work

- "Duck and Cover" by Glen Phillips

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#334230 - 06/20/10 01:27 PM Re: Husband & Wife Encounter Gone Wrong [Re: Ever-fixed Mark]
earlybird Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/17/10
Posts: 1007
Loc: WA USA
Maleness versed masculinity?

You are right as far as it pertains to me. Iíve always been a high risk sports type guy Iím sure as a way for me to establish my masculinity. To prove I was not fearful. To distract my own thoughts from those of two hateful men.

But maleness is far more elusive very slippery not allowing for a firm grip. I think for me after what happened I needed to prove I was worth making love to. In my case that meant being desired by a woman. For others it is of equal value that it might be the same desire from a man. The issue is exactly the same. I lost it in one night something Iíve never been able to fully regain. How does one do that? Oh Iíve read easy answers. I even thought I had one at the time. But there are no pat answers or a magical entreaty to bring back that maleness I no longer grasp. Instead I rely on my masculinity part of the falseness I live.

_________________________
Balanced (My goal)

There is symmetry
In self-reflection
Life exemplified
Grace personified

Top


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