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#196017 - 12/20/07 10:22 AM Re: book on predators [Re: Still]
rickochey Offline
New Here

Registered: 10/31/07
Posts: 13
i have been reading this book, "Unspeakable Acts" and i have to say that it is spinning my head in such a positive way that I am actually starting to see how I have been so ashamed of just being molested. How I have been carrying around the shame of guilt rather than the pride of innocence.


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#196022 - 12/20/07 11:27 AM Re: book on predators [Re: rickochey]
roadrunner Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/02/05
Posts: 22045
Loc: Carlisle, PA
rickochey,

Originally Posted By: rickochey
How I have been carrying around the shame of guilt rather than the pride of innocence.


That's exactly it. Once we begin to look at how perps operate and how they set up and groom their victims it becomes perfectly clear to us how totally innocent we were. In most cases the abuser is already known to the boy, so even the barrier of trust has been breached from the start. We never had a chance.

Much love,
Larry

_________________________
Nobody living can ever stop me
As I go walking my freedom highway.
Nobody living can make me turn back:
This land was made for you and me.
(Woody Guthrie)

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#196024 - 12/20/07 11:36 AM Re: book on predators [Re: Still]
roadrunner Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/02/05
Posts: 22045
Loc: Carlisle, PA
Rob,

Originally Posted By: Robbie Brown
I've always felt rather freakishly-unique in that my perps were violent, evil adolescents who had absolutely NO regard for me.


I think it's rather like bullying. A bully can justify the misery he causes by regarding his victims as not worthy of any better treatment. Much of what he does to the victim does exactly that: it justifies the rest of his brutal behavior.

From what you have said on various occasions it seems to me this model fits your adolescent abusers perfectly. It might help you to know that their lack of any concern for you even as a human being reflects an absolute lack of empathy on their part. That is, we're talking about a failing of theirs, not a weakness or fault of yours.

Since we're spilling the beans on Ken's book anyway, \:\) I should say that this theme of empathy is a major element in the way he sees things.

Much love,
Larry

_________________________
Nobody living can ever stop me
As I go walking my freedom highway.
Nobody living can make me turn back:
This land was made for you and me.
(Woody Guthrie)

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#196173 - 12/21/07 01:48 PM Re: book on predators [Re: roadrunner]
Still Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/16/07
Posts: 6367
Loc: 2 NATO Nations
Originally Posted By: roadrunner
...I should say that this theme of empathy is a major element in the way he sees things...


Maybe I'm not seeing things clearly...(That may be true given that this topic freaks me out. That is, looking into the base reasons for what happened to us all.)...but doesn't this excerpt from the Empathy section of Ken's work apply to EACH and EVERY abuser? I can't come up with a single exception in my mind.

Quote:
Abusers who lack empathy may turn out to be sociopaths (or what used to be called “psychopaths”), people who are unable and unconcerned to feel the pain they cause others. They may also be very self-centered to the point of being narcissistic (or totally self-absorbed).


_________________________
Jesus Loves The Hell Outta Me!

Still's Globs

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#196199 - 12/21/07 06:47 PM Re: book on predators [Re: Still]
BJK Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/02/07
Posts: 1526
Rob,

A lot of abusers actually beleive they are helping their victims. This is the NAMBLA point of view. Even though their version of empathy might be twisted to a normal and healthy human, it is still empathy.

Bryan



Edited by BJK (12/21/07 06:47 PM)
_________________________
Revenge is nothing more than another way of perpetuating abuse.

What the world needs now
Is some new words of wisdom
Like la la la la la la la la la.
-David Lowery

Having a friend who will keep a secret for you is worthless compared to a friend who won't keep a secret from you.

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#196207 - 12/21/07 08:14 PM Re: book on predators [Re: BJK]
Ken Singer, LCSW Offline
Moderator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/24/00
Posts: 5778
Loc: Lambertville, NJ USA
I relate in this chapter the story of a kid I had in my group some years ago. He was in the program (residential) because he has molested a couple of boys. In group, he said that he used empathy in his assaults (primarily he was performing oral sex on an 8 year old boy).

He told the group, he used empathy and put himself in the boy's place. "Who wouldn't want to get his dick sucked?" he asked the group. They quickly pointed out that the understanding and feelings that the teenager had from receiving oral sex was not the same for a younger child and that this was a distortion of real empathy because it did not look at the potential consequences for the child or his level of understanding of the act.

Ken


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#196371 - 12/23/07 09:42 AM Re: book on predators [Re: Ken Singer, LCSW]
rickochey Offline
New Here

Registered: 10/31/07
Posts: 13
UPDATE ON MY READING

So many good things I have uncovered that I have been trying to get to. I am so glad that I am reading this book. So many questions have been answered. This book shows you how they think and their background. It is a real eye opener,mind opener and heart opener.

I do not want to reveal to much for the ones who are still sensitive to this subject.



Edited by rickochey (12/23/07 12:06 PM)

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#196463 - 12/23/07 09:02 PM Re: book on predators [Re: rickochey]
Bewlayb1 Offline
Guest

Registered: 08/03/07
Posts: 241
Loc: NYC
I met two men whom I suspect of being pedophiles, one was in high school, one in college. I was almost mute until I was eighteen. Yet, the boy in high school befriended me. He was weird and widely disliked by our classmates. He dressed all in black, was emaciated, and had a lunatic look in his eyes. I tried to avoid him, but for some reason, he took an interest in me.

He disclosed to me that he was sexually abused as an infant by a babysitter. His mother talked to him about it when he was older, and he didn't think it was wrong. We were in health class together, and he manipulated the Freudian theories we were studying to suggest that children wanted sex with adults. Later, someone told me that he was bragging about being in a relationship with a seven-year-old girl.

The second became my best friend during freshman year of college, when I still had little, or no social skills. His favorite saying was "no one cares for the carer," and he tried to be everyone's therapist. He was a self-proclaimed martyr, who, in fact, hated himself and hated people. He told me that he always knew he was "special." He loved to tell his friends they were "special" too.

He was working at a camp during the summer between freshman and sophmore year. He called me, and expressed an attraction towards a young boy. I hung up. I couldn't sleep that night. Though I didn't remember my abuse yet, I wrote a letter stating that he was a horrible person, he needed to see a psychologist, and I never wanted to speak to him again. Secretly, I hoped he would kill himself.

The only pattern I can see is in their need to justify what they were doing. In some form, they placed blame on the child. The one in college thought he was loving children. The one in high school thought he was giving them what they wanted. God, even writing this sickens me.


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#332431 - 05/28/10 10:31 PM Re: book on predators [Re: Bewlayb1]
pufferfish Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/26/08
Posts: 6815
Loc: USA
I want to add a couple of books I read before becoming a part of MS.

One of these is: Conversations With a Pedophile: In the Interest of our Children by Amy Hamil Zhabin.

http://www.amazon.com/Conversations-Pedophile-Interest-our-Children/dp/1569802475/

This book chronicles the mind of a real-live pedophile who says he abused more than 1000 boys. Don't read it unless you are up to it. It will depress you for months. But it's a book that should be read by some professionals and law enforcement types. The cost of this book has skyrocketed. It is now selling for about $125 new (hardbound). Amazon says it's on it's 28th edition (paperback). If you were abused by this guy (his name is Alan) then this book has the capability of firing you off into space.

Another very revealing book which also has the capability of depressing a person is:

The Man With The Candy. by Jack Olsen. This is about the terrible ring of boy-abusers in Houston who killed their victims. The book brought me to tears more than once.

http://www.amazon.com/Man-Candy-Jack-Olsen/dp/0743212835/

This book was very revealing about a type of CSA which hopefully is pretty rare. But we need to know about what goes on.

pufferfish


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#333328 - 06/08/10 10:05 PM Re: book on predators [Re: pufferfish]
catfish86 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/27/09
Posts: 820
Loc: Ohio
Reading about the Candyman through wikipedia and some other websites, it reminds me somewhat of my uncle. I often wonder how many kids he killed. It also points out the utter stupidity and laziness of law enforcement. The things police let go are amazing. One who reads these cases often enough soon learns why Jaycee Lee Dugard could be held in a backyard tent undetected with 2 daughters born to her abductor who is a convicted sex offender on parole with regular visits by a parole officer. How Fing dumb and lazy can you be. The Houston police refused to investigate "runaways", ignoring the frightened parents while over 42 boys disappeared from the same neighborhood in less than three years. They dug up 27 bodies and stopped despite knowing that there were at least 3 more bodies and evidence of prior similar behavior years prior to the first identified victim. It is likely there may be over a hundred bodies but they were poor people's boys. The same fricking morons that want to put Aaron Vargas in jail for murder because he was a "homosexual". Then you fast forward to Cleveland Ohio and the Anthony Sowell house loaded with rotting corpses of women in a poor neighborhood.

It is troubling to me to see how little effort law enforcement puts into these efforts.

I also see that these perps are often very intelligent at passing off their crimes in front of others.

_________________________
God grant me
The Serenity to accept the things I cannot change,
The Courage to change the things I can,
And the Wisdom to know the difference.

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