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#332745 - 06/02/10 07:32 AM Is life a dream?
TheBobcatAgain Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/13/10
Posts: 507
Loc: AZ, U.S.A.
I apologize if this sounds a little crazy. Please don't have me committed for writing this.

I feel a little strange sometimes, surreal. I don't know if it's my meds or age or whatever that's causing these feelings. All I know is that I've been having them on and off for roughly two years now.

The surrealism is hard to describe. One kind of event is when someone is talking to me, and that person says something that I never knew about, or thought I understood differently. And when I hear about it, I feel like my reality has shifted slightly. I can't think of any real examples offhand, but if my politician mother told me that she has always gone out at night to do mud wrestling (which I can't conceive of), or if someone told me that the moon was blue when all this time I thought it was gray, and I found out it really was blue...I would feel like I had been zapped into a parallel dimension where everything is the exact same except for the factoid I just learned.

Sometimes, when it's late at night (like now), I think about our existence. No one really knows where life on this planet came from. This is not meant to be offensive, but there are, in my opinion, some far-fetched explanations, and of course there is faith in a supernatural being, but no one really knows. And sometimes I feel like we are all living in a mystery that no one can explain...or even tries to. People just go about their day working and doing their routine without even being curious about how we, as life, got here. Because I feel that I think about it more often than others do, I feel a little surreal.

I know that thinking about death - the biggest mystery of all - sometimes brings that topic to my mind. I'm getting older, and I'm not in good health, and sometimes my aches and pains make me feel that my mortality isn't as far off in the future as I'd like to think. I didn't used to be afraid to die - there were times in my past when I would have welcomed it - but now, sometimes I lie in bed unable to sleep, and I can't get my mind off of death. I've only had one person close to me die, and that was decades ago; if someone I was close to died tomorrow, that would be very surreal for me.

I also have deja vu more often than anyone I know. And sometimes I'll be doing whatever, and I'll remember something from a dream I had WEEKS ago - something I dreamt about that was completely foreign to me, with no apparent reason for why I dreamt it then or why I remembered it now. Bear in mind that most people remember very little from their dreams at all. I don't really believe in mysticism; these are just things that happen to me sometimes.

Anyone who has ever seen "The Matrix" will understand what I'm about to say, but sometimes I wonder if our concept of reality really isn't what we think it is. Like Neo, there are times when I'm awake, but I feel like I'm dreaming, especially when these surreal events happen to me. Could life really be just a dream?

Very occasionally, I'm just not sure that it isn't.

Sorry for this strange post. I'll probably delete it tomorrow.

Bobcat


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#332751 - 06/02/10 09:21 AM Re: Is life a dream? [Re: TheBobcatAgain]
earlybird Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/17/10
Posts: 1007
Loc: WA USA
Hey Bobcat my good friend if they commit you please come over to my room and visit, it's getting lonely in my insanity. crazy

_________________________
Balanced (My goal)

There is symmetry
In self-reflection
Life exemplified
Grace personified

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#332759 - 06/02/10 10:48 AM Re: Is life a dream? [Re: earlybird]
Obi Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 12/28/09
Posts: 1337
Loc: kansas
LOL!!! EARL!!!!

_________________________
live another day. climb a little higher.

my story

my vlog

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#332763 - 06/02/10 11:18 AM Re: Is life a dream? [Re: Obi]
Ever-fixed Mark Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 01/02/10
Posts: 729
Loc: United States
I think about the questions you raise - contemplate my own mortality and that of the people I love and the larger questions of existence - and doing so sometimes bends my mind in unexpected ways.

Whenever I get that strong surreal feeling, it normally means I've had a shock and might be disassociating. I felt it when my mother asked me if I had been abused (right time and perp) when I was coming out to her. I felt it when I was outed through gossip at work by a malicious colleague. Thinking about the eternal questions feels similar.

In the end I accept that we construct our own realities. One only has to look at modern political parties to see a clear example of different coexisting realities. Focusing on death prevents me from living my life. It's like the ultimate Sunday Night fever that makes us lose sight of the now and waste time fearing the future instead of reveling in the present.

Dum vivimus, vivimus! (While we live, let us live!)

And Bobcat, don't delete this post.

-efm

_________________________

Everybody here's got a story to tell
Everybody's been through their own hell
There's nothing too special about getting hurt
Getting over it, that takes the work

- "Duck and Cover" by Glen Phillips

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#332806 - 06/02/10 06:20 PM Re: Is life a dream? [Re: TheBobcatAgain]
Charlie24 Offline


Registered: 09/28/08
Posts: 562
Bobcat,

I have these moments all the time.

Life feels so damn surreal. I was talking to a guy who helps me on campus about life being so surreal.

It really fucking is. It's just so odd, this feeling.

So out of place, like any moment I'm gonna I'm just gonna float away.

Thanks for sharing.

Charlie


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#332813 - 06/02/10 07:14 PM Re: Is life a dream? [Re: TheBobcatAgain]
jls Offline


Registered: 03/06/09
Posts: 1142
Please don't delete your post since I think it’s relevant to survivors with concern to dissociation. I have also experienced much of what you described, and in my case lately it manifests itself as asking myself how did I go from being a street kid being sexually abused in that situation to a modestly middle class guy who is approaching middle age and living a “normal” life, at least on the surface. It feels like trying to reconcile two drastically different realities while trying to remember that I am the same person at the same time, if this makes any sense.

Another thing to consider is that what you describe when it comes to surrealism doesn’t only affect survivors. We as people in general are all challenged by existential questions like “why are we here?”, as well as being confronted with our own mortality. On both these points I have come to some personal revelations…

To do with the first one I think it needs to be broken down into two questions, namely that I see a distinction between asking why we are here vs. how we came to be. I am intrigued by this one, particularly since it is part of a very real world debate with concern to creationism vs. evolution. My answer to this schism in thought is that science can explain how we came to be through our advancing knowledge of the universe but it can never explain why we are here. For example, even if you subscribe to the “big bang” theory it doesn’t explain what caused it in the first place. In my opinion this is a question best left to philosophy or spirituality and not science, neither of which should be in competition for the answers to these questions anyways since they are like proverbial apples and oranges and can’t be compared. The only thing I’m aware of for sure is we, along with all other matter we are familiar with, originated from the dust of some distant star or stars so I feel connected to the bigger picture in this regard.

To do with becoming older it is natural to experience a sense of mortality more so as one crosses the threshold between being young and old. I am six months from 40 (hardly old) yet I have been going through a personal catharsis of late to do with both of my parents recently retiring. For me it feels like the first stage in the care giving role becoming reversed, as in it won’t be long until I will be the one taking care of them rather than the other way around. Not that they take care of me now. I am very self sufficient and have been since a young age but it is the psychological roles we fall into of being a child vs. the care giver that I am talking about, which I think we all experience as our parents approach old age. Anyways surrealism or not I am comforted by addressing such questions rather than avoiding them since they allow me to experience my humanness more fully so thanks for posting and allowing me the opportunity to share my thoughts. JS


_________________________
Love is better than anger. Hope is better than fear. Optimism is better than despair. So let us be loving, hopeful and optimistic. And we’ll change the world.


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#332819 - 06/02/10 08:33 PM Re: Is life a dream? [Re: TheBobcatAgain]
kidneythis Offline


Registered: 11/08/09
Posts: 1558
What, me worry?

honestly I've heard plenty of people say they've had similar thoughts and perceptions. Most people would hide that stuff out of fear and suffer th epain and confusion rather than ask and find out its normal on the off chance it wasn't.

I think you're right on track and the ability to see so many perspectives and openly post about your ponderings shows personal strength and a sense of security I don't know you are aware of.

_________________________
As Mark Twain once quipped, history may not repeat itself, but it does rhyme.

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#332825 - 06/02/10 10:03 PM Re: Is life a dream? [Re: kidneythis]
TheBobcatAgain Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/13/10
Posts: 507
Loc: AZ, U.S.A.
Earl, Todd, Mark, Charlie, jls, kidneythis:

Thank you for your responses. I was nervous posting this because it seems so strange, but I'm feeling better now. Thank you for encouraging me not to delete this, and for letting me know that I'm not as alone in feeling surreal as I thought.

Mark, thank you for reminding me that I need to live instead of dreading death. kidneythis, you are very perceptive about my inability to see my own personal strength - something most of my friends have commented on. jls, thank you for your thoughts. I appreciated your comments, especially on aging. Charlie, I know how you feel. Please don't "float away" from us, okay? Todd, I agree with you that Earl's comment was funny. I will definitely request a room next to yours, Earl. Hey, we could go to scream therapy together, and afterward, we can drool on our lunches! smile

Thank you again, guys. Means a lot to me.

Bobcat


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#332837 - 06/03/10 12:22 AM Re: Is life a dream? [Re: TheBobcatAgain]
alone Offline


Registered: 03/05/09
Posts: 55
Bobcat,
They are right, don't delete it. I understand your post. I have never felt like I fit in anywhere. My kids are older now and ask advice about things and I feel like I have nothing on which to draw to help them. My son (25) just ask a week ago, "Dad, do think I am a fuck up?" I told him no but I found it difficult to back up my statement because I am no good with adversity. It's always been that way. So life for me can be surreal because I am so disconnected or so it seems. I find it very difficult to reason things out. So many times I have opened my big yap when I should have shut up because I was wrong. Everyone else "seems" to have it right. That is my perception anyway. So that's why I don't know where the real truth to things are. There always seems to be an undercurrent of things going on of which I am usually unaware unless it hits me square in the face. So yeah, life on the surface seems very surreal because a lot of people are acting instead of being real. Getting below the surface is very difficult. My one time abuse changed my life drastically.
Thanks for your post.
Alone


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#332874 - 06/03/10 02:13 PM Re: Is life a dream? [Re: TheBobcatAgain]
Lenz Offline


Registered: 04/23/10
Posts: 61
Loc: San Francisco
From Life is a Dream by Calderon de la Barca
ACT 3
Clotaldo to Segismund:

So sleep; sleep fast: and sleep away those two
Night-potions, and the waking dream between
Which dream thou must believe; and, if to see
Again, poor Segismund! that dream must be.—
And yet, and yet, in these our ghostly lives,
Half night, half day, half sleeping, half awake,
How if our waking life, like that of sleep,
Be all a dream in that eternal life
To which we wake not till we sleep in death?
How if, I say, the senses we now trust
For date of sensible comparison,—
Ay, ev'n the Reason's self that dates with them,
Should be in essence or intensity
Hereafter so transcended, and awake
To a perceptive subtlety so keen
As to confess themselves befool'd before,
In all that now they will avouch for most?
One man—like this—but only so much longer
As life is longer than a summer's day,
Believed himself a king upon his throne,
And play'd at hazard with his fellows' lives,
Who cheaply dream'd away their lives to him.
The sailor dream'd of tossing on the flood:
The soldier of his laurels grown in blood:
The lover of the beauty that he knew
Must yet dissolve to dusty residue:
The merchant and the miser of his bags
Of finger'd gold; the beggar of his rags:
And all this stage of earth on which we seem
Such busy actors, and the parts we play'd,
Substantial as the shadow of a shade,
And Dreaming but a dream within a dream!




Edited by Lenz (06/03/10 02:14 PM)

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#333094 - 06/06/10 02:18 PM Re: Is life a dream? [Re: Lenz]
Lenz Offline


Registered: 04/23/10
Posts: 61
Loc: San Francisco
Playbill

I will try to explain here, in a few words, what the verse above is saying, in a muddled translation. A long time ago there was a kindom whose king needed an heir to his thrown.

His son, the rightful prince Segismundo, had been met with a terrible omen.

A prophet said, years ago, that Spain would suffer the wrath of a terrible tyrant and at the prince's birth he says that Segismundo will be that tyrant, and will rule over Spain like a beast. To fend against the omen, King Basilico orders General Clotaldo to lock Segismuno away in a cave.

For twenty years he is raised by animals who are free. Segismundo is bound to the interior of the cave. Then, from France and England, science is born! King Basilico, interested in the work of Gallileo and Copernicus, begins to doubt the legitimacy of prophecy. He thinks tha the forces exerted upon us by the heavenly spheres can be altered, with science. We can change the course which the heavens have determined for man.

The King has Clotaldo (who has been Segismundo's only human contact) have Segismundo put to sleep. When he awakens, to a castle, and in garments of gold, he lives for one day as the king of Spain. Of course, this is only an experiment. The procedure was reversed that evening, and Segismundo woke again to his cave.

The speech above is Clotaldo's best effort to keep the crown of Spain from a man who would survive this, defenestrate the wrongful heir, and become King Segismundo.

Pais,
Lenz









Edited by Lenz (06/08/10 06:25 AM)

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#333098 - 06/06/10 02:51 PM Re: Is life a dream? [Re: Lenz]
kidneythis Offline


Registered: 11/08/09
Posts: 1558
There is no Verse above only the word Playbill. Do you mean the title question?
Second is this meant to be a story or history?
The last line is unclear. Is it saying that Segismundo survives and after killing his replacement becomes king?

_________________________
As Mark Twain once quipped, history may not repeat itself, but it does rhyme.

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#333137 - 06/06/10 09:15 PM Re: Is life a dream? [Re: kidneythis]
Lenz Offline


Registered: 04/23/10
Posts: 61
Loc: San Francisco
Sorry to be unclear. Here, I was reffering to my own posting; reply #9 on this thread (06/03/10 01:13 PM ).

Pais,
Lenz



Edited by Lenz (06/06/10 09:16 PM)

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#333138 - 06/06/10 09:20 PM Re: Is life a dream? [Re: Lenz]
kidneythis Offline


Registered: 11/08/09
Posts: 1558
Didn't see the link for a page one this morning.
I'll have to read that a couple times to get it.

EDIT
I don't know that I'll ever get it I'm no good with foriegn languages I am too accustomed to the certainty of English and I generally reject any "interpretations" of what is said for actually saying what I mean and taking what is said to mean what is does not what I want or think it to.
I hope thats not too confusing. I am saying the interpretation of the original is confusing and the original probably relies heavily on the listener knowing certain assumptions which are to be made characteristic of the language that I do not.



Edited by kidneythis (06/07/10 02:37 PM)
_________________________
As Mark Twain once quipped, history may not repeat itself, but it does rhyme.

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#333142 - 06/06/10 09:56 PM Re: Is life a dream? [Re: kidneythis]
Lenz Offline


Registered: 04/23/10
Posts: 61
Loc: San Francisco
I'll try to find the best translation.

I do hope the story about Segismundo can put words to the feeling of dream-life that openned this thread. Personally, I find the play Life is a Dream to have an added interest in the context of child abuse.

As I was given wine (at 8 yo), brought to the office of the church camp and THEN given somkind of "poition": ether or cloroform. The element of intoxication is also an issue that is essential to this confusion.

This is fundamentally why I don't take medication. I have to stand by the fact that what happened to me was a crime, not an illness, or a dream.

Pais,
Lenz



Edited by Lenz (06/08/10 06:21 AM)

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#333143 - 06/06/10 09:59 PM Re: Is life a dream? [Re: Lenz]
kidneythis Offline


Registered: 11/08/09
Posts: 1558
A lot of my abuse involved drugs meant to destroy my memory and my mind.

_________________________
As Mark Twain once quipped, history may not repeat itself, but it does rhyme.

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#333146 - 06/06/10 10:11 PM Re: Is life a dream? [Re: kidneythis]
pufferfish Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/26/08
Posts: 6872
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: kidneythis
A lot of my abuse involved drugs meant to destroy my memory and my mind.


I know of at least one book on this. I've never shared this with you openly but mayb I need to.

Allen

pufferfish whistle


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#333151 - 06/06/10 10:49 PM Re: Is life a dream? [Re: pufferfish]
pufferfish Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/26/08
Posts: 6872
Loc: USA
This is one of the books I am referring to:

Monarch: The New Phoenix Program (Paperback)
by Marshall G Thomas

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0595457622/

This book talks about use of drugs and conditioning techniques to gain control of people. It and other books speak of using innocent children in experiments.

So what do you think of that?

Allen

pufferfish whistle


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#333198 - 06/07/10 02:19 PM Re: Is life a dream? [Re: pufferfish]
kidneythis Offline


Registered: 11/08/09
Posts: 1558
I've thought it might be true. One of the threats my Paternal Aunt who psychologically abused me and abandoned me in that shelter I'm still not sure if it was a legal thing or she just dumped me there and figured they wouldn't notice one more kid, was that she'd sell me off to some hospital where they would experiment on me.
There is some website that is a clearinghouse for all sorts of conspiracies and ritual abuses. its pretty thorough and nonjudgmental. I used it a bit but I've found more helpful stuff here.
I went so far as to correspond with the CIA asking making FOIA requests for any records about me. There were none.
I let it drop as more came to me and I realized/came to believe that these people abusing me were doing it on their own. Using what they could glean by doing their jobs assisting the doctors and some were professionals being used through manipulation and deciet by my abusers. The drugs part besides the illicit slipping me of something when I was in the small childrens area was that they left me alone in a hallway to recover from the paralysis. I was not allowed to see a clock or anything that might let me know what time it was or waht day it was. and when someoen came by to clean me they would knock me out with drugs so I couldn't get any succor from the human conatact of it. I only got to see and interact with people when the doctors saw me. Well I can only recall one or two of these visits. This was meant to destroy my memory and hopefully my mind. Top stop me from remembering who had paralysed me and the abuse that had gone on prior to that. the multiple ECT's after I could walk was because I kept remembering bits and peices of it all. The fucking scum who was pretending to be my friend (He was an adult black man filling the paternal role for me assigned by the hospital and my doctors! We'd sit for hours with his arm around me talking him cajoling me constantly asking me questions.) was actually monitoring me for what I could recall and getting me ECT'd whenever I remembered enough that it scared him I might remember it all. I just realized that Allen. As I worte I remember proudly telling him what I was remembering. I had no idea I had been ECT'd I was told nothing as if I were born that morning.
The more I remember the fucking scummier these people get. I was conditioned to interact with others abnormally. I am only now learning that it is usually safe to speak what is going on inside and that others will help. the only ones who don't are those as confused and abused as I am/was.

It was mostly prescribed or prescribable drugs they used on me but I suspect I was dosed with acid a few times as well. I think thats why I hate confusion so much especially since I know its a voluntary condition. Either by the person who won't think rationally confusing themself or someone who has informationm with holding it to keep another confused. It is never a natural state one has to act to preserve it in oneself or in another.



Edited by kidneythis (06/07/10 02:27 PM)
_________________________
As Mark Twain once quipped, history may not repeat itself, but it does rhyme.

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#333203 - 06/07/10 04:11 PM Re: Is life a dream? [Re: kidneythis]
kidneythis Offline


Registered: 11/08/09
Posts: 1558
Oh yea I forgot to mention that one of the two guys who were dopeing me used to like to tell me he was killing me and torment me as I passed out from the dose. Or he'd tell me the doctors wanted me to die so they didn't have to report on what happened.

_________________________
As Mark Twain once quipped, history may not repeat itself, but it does rhyme.

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#333219 - 06/07/10 07:41 PM Re: Is life a dream? [Re: kidneythis]
pufferfish Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/26/08
Posts: 6872
Loc: USA
It would appear that you were used in the experiments reported in this book:

The CIA Doctors: Human Rights Violations by American Psychiatrists ~ Colin A. Ross

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0976550806/

Maybe we weren't supposed to figure this out?

pufferfish


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#333223 - 06/07/10 08:29 PM Re: Is life a dream? [Re: pufferfish]
kidneythis Offline


Registered: 11/08/09
Posts: 1558
Thanks Allen but I don't think so. I'm fairly certain of my assessment of this being a racially motivated situation. It started when I was in the childrens area and corected the adults who came in to teach. Apparently they weren't teachers they were Black Panther's or people affiliated. They immediately hated me and didn't want me present as they taught the black children. "I aint teachin no whitey" and " I aint raisin no white boy."
When I began answering the questions first all the time then corrected them when they were wrong it started to drive them nuts. Not all but the strongest or scariest of them present. Those with sense could only protect me so much then be in danger themselves. Think Precious, not well adjusted minds we're talking about here.
They had to get a white person from the Hospital to check if the answer was correct. I don't know why except that they weren't qualified to be teaching. I think they might have thought I didn't believe what they said because they were3 black and that them being wrong didn't matter as long as the black kids saw a black person teaching. Somehow they believe that was more important than being right. How can teaching a child how to be wrong be right?
Amyway the hate and abuse began then. And as I got brighter they isolated me and blck adult staff started recruiting the other kids to abuse me. They kept me isolated from everyone even during playtime and started torturing me mentally and physically.
When I was paralysed it was a setup. A boy my age who was my frenemy. He liked me but he liked the approval of an older male father figure more. We were in the same class. It was the only safe place I could remember. The teacher, a white lady liked me and I was treated well. One day there was a substitute a black lady and she asked me and the kid to stay after class. When everyone left all of them giving me looks like they knew something was up in hindsight, she sat there silently for a few minutes then when I asked her why we were there she did not answer then got up and walked out. The kid immediately attacked me. I ran around the room avoiding him there were some older girls at the door blocking me from getting out. He eventually got me in a headlock and broke my neck in the weak spot my maternal aunt and grandmother put there with the abuse they inflicted to weaken it.

The story goes on from there. This was taken as an opportunity to destroy my memory of the abuse from the time I was there, to hide that I'd been there for years by law it was only allowed to have a child there 6 months, and to destroy the memory of who did it to me.
The whiote woman who covered up for him was the head lady from the small childrens ward, made up a story about me climbing. That is clearly a lie since I was not a climber and it is the made up story by my aunt and grandmother to explain if the damage done to my neck worked and I did die from it. My aunt and grandma would often put me up in high places then get someone to "see" me there to further justify this.
I'm pretty sure it was all at its core to hide the sexual abuse taking place in my family. Daddy's milk he called it. I don't think it was my father though it could have been.

I won't say it isn't possible as those parts of my family would and will do anything for money and selling me to the gov as "Moron" a formal Eugenics classification of person that the gov used in all sorts of ways is certainly one of them. What I recall along those lines is that the legend used to scare me was that the Army was doing experiments on people in the wards of the Hospital.



Edited by kidneythis (06/07/10 08:33 PM)
_________________________
As Mark Twain once quipped, history may not repeat itself, but it does rhyme.

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#333273 - 06/08/10 11:48 AM Re: Is life a dream? [Re: kidneythis]
kidneythis Offline


Registered: 11/08/09
Posts: 1558
Oh yea Allen some of the, well at least one opf the doctors treating me was down with the idea of abusing me and using drugs and ECT to destroy my memory it wasn't only the nurseing and orderly staff. One of the docs fucking hated dealing with me. The guy who came up with the idea to fuse my vertabrae was nice to me but he was also mercenary. He wouldn't listen when I told him how it hurt and how my mind no longer worked or about the headaches and ringing in my ear. Suddenly he shifted from being nice and playing with me to being a dick. He also thought it best I not remember. He was the one who designed the whole strap the Halo on me system. A halo was/is normall screwed into the skull bone. I still have the lump at one side of my head from my soft skull forming to the halo.

I'd bet money he wrote and published a paper on how he treated me and I recovered movement with only minor signs of damage. I wish I knew how to search something like that.


There was a woman who tried to save me from the ECT and she made a record of everything that happened and had it sent to the State Archive. There was open talk of destroying my files as when I got paralysed is when they realized, I didn't know my own name, I was shockingly underdeveloped and there was no record of me arriving in the place. She told me it was under an ancestor of mine's name but when I tried and failed to get the courts to open my records I told about this and the state archive denied it was even possible and that anything existed and the judge allowed herself to be manipulated into not looking into that or other areas where I had discovered by research my records probably were.
Fucked again.
Now the cop who filled out the Incident Report for the report I was finally allowed to make after a year and a half of trying to make a report is playing hide away. He scheduled a phone appointemnt with me at 3pm yesterday and thats after hours. I got the VM.
Anyway he inserted the line that I remembered in therapy when I clearly said how it happened in my 17 page report to them. I suspect that's to discourage anyone who might pick it up later as that's a red flag for "faked report". I have been trying to get him to amend it and explain that he had assumed.

And so it goes.........

EDIT
I'm sorry this thread has drifted from the original post. Still I think this was organic to the discussion. If you'd like me to stop corresponding with Allen on in this vein please let me know BobCat.



Edited by kidneythis (06/08/10 01:04 PM)
_________________________
As Mark Twain once quipped, history may not repeat itself, but it does rhyme.

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#333343 - 06/09/10 03:38 AM Re: Is life a dream? [Re: kidneythis]
Lenz Offline


Registered: 04/23/10
Posts: 61
Loc: San Francisco
Kt,

I think that the fluidity of the discussion is about reality/unreality, and therefore really quite on point.

Perhaps there is more to the underlay of falseness that we live with in society at large because of the fact that the memory of victims are particularly important to perpetrators, who are also at large in society, and can often play trusted roles, or be public figures.

Furthermore, it seems to me that that pharmaceutical industry itself thrives on "wellness" as though it were a form of amnesia, and is culpable in as much as they have mastered such influences (from ether to rohiptnol, etc.) There must be thousands of abusers whose identity becomes camouflaged by the variety of medicinal hazes that their victims will intentionally or inevitably fall in.

Pais,
Lenz




Edited by Lenz (06/09/10 03:40 AM)

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#333352 - 06/09/10 09:13 AM Re: Is life a dream? [Re: kidneythis]
TheBobcatAgain Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/13/10
Posts: 507
Loc: AZ, U.S.A.
Oh, buddy...

How could I suggest you stop corresponding? I wouldn't do that. No, it's perfectly okay, kidneythis. You go right on corresponding with Allen and others. I don't feel you've deviated that much from my original post. And even if you have, it's okay. This is healing for you, buddy - so I say, keep at it. smile

Your loving brother, as always,

Bobcat


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#333353 - 06/09/10 09:17 AM Re: Is life a dream? [Re: TheBobcatAgain]
kidneythis Offline


Registered: 11/08/09
Posts: 1558
Thank You
I didn't want you to think I was hijacking the thread.

_________________________
As Mark Twain once quipped, history may not repeat itself, but it does rhyme.

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