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#203688 - 02/05/08 12:57 PM Re: GMO Genetically Modified Organisms You are eat [Re: Hauser]
Danbuff Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/03/07
Posts: 249
Loc: NY state
Hauser,
I appreciate your well thought out points. I still return to the need for some regulation that requires truth in labeling and the only way thay will occur is by a law, regulation or mandate. A voluntary option will never work. I am familiar with the FDA creation Upton Sinclair's The Jungle.

We seem to hold philosophical differences about the role of government. I believe the government is responsible for regulating and monitoring this sort of issue. We are duped by companies all the time. Someone, somehow, somewhere we need to have a standard. Yes the agencies are large and full of problems but using that as a reason to say we don't need them. (it sounds like you are saying that) is an easy way out.

If we left the issue soley to corporations we would be screwed and all sorts of things would make it to the market. Thank God for the independant watch dog groups who bring the hidden things to light. I go back to the question of why do we pay taxes and have laws? Our government needs to be overhauled without eliminating agencies.

Personal responsibilty is a huge part of it but comparing a college kid drinking and the parents suing is comparing apples and oranges to me. We can only be personally responsible when we know what the choices are about. I go back to the point of labeling. Truth in advertising and knowing what we are buying and eating is morally and ethically a baseline or minimum standard.

In my eyes this is not the government making a choice for me, it is actually giving me a choice when they set standards in a free market. Take tobacco as an example. They now say on the label this is dangerous and unhealthy. It is the buyers choice and right to decide to use tobacco. They know the score. When I buy food, I want to know what I am buying so I have a choice. That is the power of consumers controlling the market. Right now we don't have a clue about what we are buying and eating.

Lastly, the government has no role in the AAA or BBB, they are not part of the government. They are independant organizations.
Take a look at the link I am pasting in this message. In spite of so -called standards, hotels may look pristine and shiny but the reality is they are dressed up flea bags. Thank God for the agencies like the health department who can monitor the practices and force change. That is why we need government regulations and standards.
http://link.brightcove.com/services/link/bcpid1329217643/bctid1329232712
Dan


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#203691 - 02/05/08 01:40 PM Re: GMO Genetically Modified Organisms You are eat [Re: Danbuff]
Hauser Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/12/05
Posts: 2962
Loc: United States
Hah! I love it! Could I have some extra flesh-eating-bacteria with my coke?


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#330079 - 04/28/10 07:31 AM Re: GMO Genetically Modified Organisms You are eat [Re: Hauser]
Hauser Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/12/05
Posts: 2962
Loc: United States




Feds on GMO Labeling: Don't Tell, Don't Ask

If you were hoping there might be some change in the U.S. government's official position on genetically modified and genetically engineered (GM/GE) foods under the Obama administration, tough luck.

Last month there was the appointment of big-time GM/GE advocate (and former Monsanto lobbyist) Islam Siddiqui to Office of the United States Trade Representative as the country's chief agricultural negotiator . Now comes a position paper from the United States Department of Agriculture (USDA) and the Food and Drug Administration (FDA) that opposes labeling for genetically modified food. The U.S. claims that letting consumers know whether or not food contains GM/GE products is "false, misleading, or deceptive."

You read that correctly. In Obama Newspeak, telling the public the truth is false, misleading, or deceptive, while concealing facts is not. Incidentally, the language is identical to that used by previous administrations. How's that for change?

The policy prompted yowls of outrage form more than 80 organic, environmental, food-production, and public-health groups. They dispatched a letter earlier this week urging Michael Taylor, who is deputy commissioner for foods at the FDA, and Kathleen Merrigan, deputy secretary of agriculture, to reconsider (click here for a PDF). "We are concerned that the current U.S. position could potentially create serious problems for food processors in the U.S. who wish to indicate that their products contain no GE ingredients, including on organic food," the letter said.

The administration intends to argue its position at a meeting of the Codex Committee on Food Labeling, a United Nations body that sets labeling rules for food in international trade. Codex will be meeting from May 3 to May 7 in Quebec City. The government feels Codex should not "suggest or imply that GM/GE foods are in any way different from other foods."

"The agenda of the biotech industry is that if consumers don't know about it, they will eat it," said Patty Lovera, assistant director of Washington, D. C.-based Food and Water Watch. "Our government shouldn't be carrying the water for the biotech industry, a group that tries not to let the public know what it is doing."

The new policy directly contradicts the USDA's current organic regulations, the groups point out in the letter. USDA organic rules prohibit modified seeds, and organic producers often label their products as being GM-free. "Such foods are clearly different," the letter states. "We are, in fact, concerned that that the current U.S. position appears to seek to establish a precedent at Codex that would make it difficult to label food as non-GM within the U.S."

Agribusiness would love nothing better.


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#330163 - 04/29/10 01:04 AM Re: GMO Genetically Modified Organisms You are eat [Re: Hauser]
pufferfish Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/26/08
Posts: 6867
Loc: USA
This post is about allergies to peanut butter versus soybean butter. It also talks about soybean burgers.

I am allergic to peanut butter. It's a food I consumed a lot of as a child without ill effects. But now I'm allergic to it as are a lot of folks. So we wonder why that would be. Have we changed or has the peanut?

I don't know the answer but this thread makes me wonder if it is some kind of genetically modified peanut that I'm allergic to. That would make sense.

Also, since I can't eat peanut butter, I started eating soybean butter. It tastes almost as good and seems to have only minor effects on my system.

Now I've discovered that I can eat veggie-burgers which are supposedly much better for my health than beef hamburger. And the soy-bean burgers are very easy to digest and provide almost as much protein. So, I've switched to soy-bean burgers.

But now I've discovered another interesting thing. I don't have any reaction to the soy-bean burgers but I have some reaction to soybean butter. The answer must reside in genetically engineered soybeans used in the soybean butter. The veggie-burgers are made from non-engineered soy beans.

Allen


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#330164 - 04/29/10 01:25 AM Re: GMO Genetically Modified Organisms You are eating [Re: Danbuff]
pufferfish Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/26/08
Posts: 6867
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: Danbuff

Agent Orange? a Chemical defoliant that causes birth defects and cancers and now is banned. This is dangerous science and


My wife died of the disease ALS, or Lou Gehrig's disease. It is a progressive neurological disease without cure.

Her neurology team was interviewing her as to possible causation. They had just about decided that her disease was caused by a genetic condition passed down through her family. I was in ther room and jumped in and told them that all the members of that family swam in Lake Erie during its highly polluted years. That really raised some eyebrows. eek They had totally not considered that another possible cause could explain the whole thing as well or better than their genetic hypothesis.

Furthermore, a man in our city also died of ALS before my wife. He had been a pilot in Viet Nam and had been involved in spraying agent orange over the jungles. It seems probable that his disease was caused by agent orange.

Originally Posted By: Danbuff

we have been eating so many products unknowingly affected for 30 years that were created from genetic engineering, it is a reasonable question to ask if it has any linkage to the astronomical rates of Autism, ADHD or countless other conditions


Particularly notable with regard to this is the tremendous increase in the rise of alzheimer's disease and parkinson's disease.

Allen

pufferfish whistle


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#330273 - 04/29/10 11:27 PM Re: GMO Genetically Modified Organisms You are eating [Re: pufferfish]
melliferal Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/03/05
Posts: 1159
Genes in the food you eat can't affect you, guys, unless the genes cause the organism to create toxins. And if that happens, it doesn't take decades for you to notice. Everything you eat is metabolized within 48 hours tops; if nothing happens to you in that time frame, nothing's going to happen.

Sure, the federal government does not require food packaging to state whether the food is GM or not. It also doesn't require the packaging to state the name and address of the farmer whose field the crop was harvested from, and whether his harvester was built by Ford or John Deere. Why? Because those things don't matter.

GM's being "dangerous" is nothing but a marketing ploy, executed by food companies that grow and sell "organic" products. These products, nutritionally-speaking, are demonstrably no different from GM or mass-grown foods; but the refusal to use pesticides and other modern techniques makes them harder to grow, which causes them to have higher prices than similar, "non-organic" foods. And how on earth are you going to convince grocery store customers to spend an extra 30% on your product rather than buying a traditionally-produced competitor's cheaper version of the same thing? By claiming their food is "dangerous" because of GM, BGH, or what have you.

And no, genetic-modification is NOT something new, that has only happened in the last couple of decades. Genetic modification is as old as human agriculture. It's been around since the very first time a cattle rancher used his best bull to stud, or a tomato farmer decided this year to plant only seeds from the plants that best survived last year's bad drought. It's the exact same thing. It may be done with a needle in a lab, rather than waiting for the animals to be born, mature, and screw; but the result is the same, it just takes less time.

_________________________
Children cannot consent; they can only comply.

Oprah's resources for male survivors

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#330644 - 05/02/10 01:57 PM Re: GMO Genetically Modified Organisms You are eating [Re: melliferal]
kidneythis Offline


Registered: 11/08/09
Posts: 1558
The issue as I see it is that GM products could affect one negatively over long term just like a constant intake of a small amount of some known toxic chemical will negatively affect a person.
The problem with the logic of it not harming one immediately or within 48 hours, is that it assumes the current model of the normal unmodified product will remain the model even as the product changes. This is a common and easy mistake for people to make.
But once you realize that the model must change as the item itself changes you begin to see that it isn't possible to know what the long term effects of a GMO organism that is independently changing as the changes it is put through by man happen. These independent changes are partly the mostly unknown side effects of the changes induced by man and partly the natural response of the organism. They are also introducing genes that produce the anti insect and fungi chemicals which are currently sprayed on the crops. How is this going to be OK to eat? Would you drink the chemical or have it sprinkled on the food before eating? This is a ploy by Monsanto and the rest to make the chemicals which are pretty universally harmful to man, seem natural since the plant is made to produce it. Estrogen like compounds comes to mind.
It is the mostly unknown aspect of GMO that gives rise to the suspicions and fears of unknown long term negative effects as well as fear of the extinction of the original species of food plants that are being modified through natural cross pollination.

_________________________
As Mark Twain once quipped, history may not repeat itself, but it does rhyme.

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#330657 - 05/02/10 03:15 PM Re: GMO Genetically Modified Organisms You are eating [Re: kidneythis]
pufferfish Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/26/08
Posts: 6867
Loc: USA
There are at least several problems with GMO crops:

1. They reduce diversity within the variety of the crop. Genetic diversity is a key to long-term stability of our food sources.

2. The companies that make the GMO seed become total monopolies. They make the "company store" scenario into a huge frankenstein monster. Do we trust one company which genetically engineers the seed, produces the seed, sells the seed, and controls the crop? Too much power vested in a small group of people is exceedingly dangerous.

Look what happened on Wall Street!!

3. The crops produced by GMO, lacking diversity, omit certain nutritional factors which are necessary for long-term health of the humans.

4. They also augment certain negative health effects such as allergies.

Allen


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#330668 - 05/02/10 03:43 PM Re: GMO Genetically Modified Organisms You are eating [Re: Danbuff]
pufferfish Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/26/08
Posts: 6867
Loc: USA
Eek! eek At the end of the film I saw a pufferfish going down the conveyer belt.

Originally Posted By: Danbuff
I am posting a link to a 53 minute documentary that will likely draw you into watching it completely. This is an example of science gone wrong and has numerous implications about big business and corporate influence in policy. I could comment further but will wait to hear reactions. I encourage you to look at this issue and perhaps spread the message. It is very alarming. Here is the link.

http://video.google.com/videosearch?q=GMO&hl=en&sitesearch
It is the FIRST VIDEO Poison or Panacea
Dan


No, seriously, guys this is important stuff. I know lots of you have heavy issues on your minds, but this is your chance to become informed about it.

Allen

pufferfish whistle


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#330704 - 05/02/10 05:57 PM Re: GMO Genetically Modified Organisms You are eating [Re: kidneythis]
melliferal Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/03/05
Posts: 1159
Originally Posted By: kidneythis
The issue as I see it is that GM products could affect one negatively over long term just like a constant intake of a small amount of some known toxic chemical will negatively affect a person.
The problem with the logic of it not harming one immediately or within 48 hours, is that it assumes the current model of the normal unmodified product will remain the model even as the product changes. This is a common and easy mistake for people to make.
But once you realize that the model must change as the item itself changes you begin to see that it isn't possible to know what the long term effects of a GMO organism that is independently changing as the changes it is put through by man happen. These independent changes are partly the mostly unknown side effects of the changes induced by man and partly the natural response of the organism. They are also introducing genes that produce the anti insect and fungi chemicals which are currently sprayed on the crops. How is this going to be OK to eat? Would you drink the chemical or have it sprinkled on the food before eating? This is a ploy by Monsanto and the rest to make the chemicals which are pretty universally harmful to man, seem natural since the plant is made to produce it. Estrogen like compounds comes to mind.
It is the mostly unknown aspect of GMO that gives rise to the suspicions and fears of unknown long term negative effects as well as fear of the extinction of the original species of food plants that are being modified through natural cross pollination.


It's different from a case of slowly ingesting toxins and allowing them to build up in your system until they reach harmful levels in that when such a case happens, medical tests show that a person has too much of toxin "x" in their blood. Doctors are not finding a widespread epidemic of unexplained intoxication linked to any specific kind of food - genetically-modified or otherwise.

As for the plants that are being bred to produce natural insecticides and the like; the folly is assuming that anything that kills bugs is probably harmful to humans. Of course that's not the case. When you have a bacterial infection, for instance, you take an antibiotic. Antibiotic literally means "against life"; the compound's sole job is to kill a living organism that's inside you. This it does, without harming you. Likewise for things like weed killers - initially, weed killers could probably better be described as all-around "plant killers", in that they kill indescriminately. But if that was ever actually true, it isn't now: you can buy lawn treatment that kills weeds but leaves the grass alone. Bug sprays are sold for specific pests - you can buy Raid for ants, and Raid for wasps, but the wasp spray won't work on ants and vice versa. Even leaving artificial chemicals behind: grapes are excellent and very healthy for humans, but a natural compound produced in the skin of the grape will kill your dog. A bite from the most venomous spider on Earth, a nasty little piece of work called a "Funnel Web" spider, will kill a human or any other primate within a couple of hours; cats can get bitten repeatedly by them and aside from the bite hurting, the toxin has zero affect on them. Bottom line: something unhealthy for a weed or a bug does not necessarily affect you in any way. If genetically-modified crops produced harmful chemicals, they would show up in medical tests - and they don't. Meanwhile, there's something like a panic reaction because somebody somewhere thought up the idea that it's possible for GM crops to be poisoning humans and ran with it before waiting for some actual evidence.

As for lacking certain nutritive compounds; that may be true. But even if it is, the only way it would matter is if you ate only one particular GM crop and nothing else your entire life. Cooking vegetables often destroys, leeches, or otherwise removes all kinds of nutrients from them; yet we cook. That's because proper nutrition comes from eating more than one kind of food and not relying entirely on one specific item for any specific nutrient.

_________________________
Children cannot consent; they can only comply.

Oprah's resources for male survivors

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